For you stove aficionados what are your thoughts on the "gas mileage" between the Pocket Rocket and Whisperlite.

Two 8 oz canisters of MSR gas with the PR is about 1/2 lb lighter than the whisperlite with a 20 oz bottle of white gas.

According to MSR's site, 20 oz of white gas will burn approximately 136 minutes with the WL vs 60 minutes per canister with the PR. However...
The PR will boil one liter of water in 3.5 minutes vs 3.9 minutes and will boil two liters of water per 1 oz of fuel vs 1.5 liters. (Realizing of course, these are MSR's numbers and probably a bit optimistic)

So it would seem that while similar, the advantage would to the PR and gas canisters as far as overall efficiency. The 1/2 pound savings in weight would seem like the deal breaker on a backpack hunt.
The only advantage I see to the Whisperlite would be the 20 oz bottle of fuel is slimmer and not as bulky as two 8 oz gas canisters, and the white gas is more available in remote areas.

I realize there are other considerations too such as low temperatures, altitude, application, etc., but it just seems to me the Pocket Rocket is the overall winner in simplicity, ease of use, maintenance and fuel consumption vs boil volume.

Am I missing something? Any thoughts?

Wife uses pocket rocket large canister on 5 day trips August temps. Used 2 X day.

I just did a cost per minute comparison on my new Whisperlite Universal.

MSR IsoPro canister gas 6.5 cents per minute.

Coleman premium grade white gas 4.5 cents per minute

Standard Coleman white gas 1.5 cents per minute.

Those were based on MSR's burn times for the various fuels then I just figured that against what I pay locally for each fuel type.

MSR IsoPro - 5 dollars for 8oz canister

Coleman Premium - 10 dollars for 32oz

Coleman standard - 10 dollars for 1 gal

Burn times;

IsoPro 80z - 75 minutes

Coleman gas 20oz - 110 minutes

1 liter water boil time;

IsoPro - 3.75 minutes

Coleman gas - 3.5 minutes

One thing you need to take into consideration is the Pocket Rocket is an upright canister and is limited to about 20F (minus for what ever elevation you will be at), that is of course if you use a good fuel blend and sleep with the thing.

Hikin Jim on here has a blog and he is a bit of a stove nut, he knows all the numbers and comparisons plus tested many of the stoves out there

Sheep partner and I burned nearly all of a 22-oz MSR bottle thru my simmerlite this fall, but there was still a little slosh in the bottom when we were picked up on the sandbar, on day 15...

That's with one hot meal per day (none were freeze dried, so all required ~10min simmering), and he boiled up water for oatmeal and coffee a few mornings. I was impressed.

Hikin Jim's site is great! I've been there multiple times. I'm just trying to evaluate the best solution for a 4 day backpack. Most all my meals consist of boiling 16-20 oz of water. Maybe 3 times a day and maybe one or two 16 oz for coffee in addition. First and foremost, I want to make sure one 20oz bottle or two 8 oz canisters will last 4 days. I believe they will. I seem to get 15-20 "boils" out of one canister.(this with varying volumes of water being boiled)

Last camping trip we had temps in low 20's. I had a Coleman canister which is propane and butane mix, NOT isobutane. It sputtered some and seemed to take longer to boil but that could have been because of the water had ice in it. The second night, I put the canister in the bottom of my bag and the following morning I had no sputtering. I believe with the Isobutane/propane mix, I'd be good down to 20 or high teens, especially if the canister was kept overnight in the bottom of my bag. This seems to square with Hikin Jim's info.

If two canisters or one 20 oz bottle is comparable and either will last 4 days with fuel to spare, then the Pocket Rocket would be the first choice based on weight alone. Whisperlite would be the choice if anticipated temps drop below 20�.

That IS pretty impressive. 14-15 days is more than I would have ever guessed. Most of my trips are one or two nighters so I never really get the opportunity to see just how long the fuel will last. I do make "tic" marks on my gas canisters to track how many "boils" I get.
It's pretty amazing just how efficient these stoves are!

Stove nut? Who me?

Those numbers that MSR gives out are typically a little optimistic but also those numbers are lab numbers not "out in the field" numbers.

One thing not taken into account is wind. The PocketRocket sits up high and is harder to shield from wind whereas the Whisperlite is more slung AND comes with a windshield (which you should use).

I typically figure about 20g of canister gas per day for one person or about 30g for two -- if I'm not melting snow. If I'm melting snow, I double that.

I figure about 30g of white gas per day for one person or about 40g for two, again I double that amount if I'm melting snow.

One weight saving tip for longer or more fuel intensive trips: A single 450g canister of gas (Snow Peak, Jetboil, and Primus make them) will weigh less per gram of fuel than two 225g canisters.

I like my Whisperlite, and it's reasonably miserly on the gas, but it's not as light as a PR. The PR though is vulnerable to wind and cold. Both stoves will work fine at altitude. The Whisperlite is more fiddle but has much greater pot stability. The PR is as easy as pie to use but it's a lot easier to bend the pot supports and/or to dump your dinner.

For me, I'd be checking the weather reports. If it's much below 20F, I'd go with the Whisperlite. If I were using a big pot (like to melt snow or for group meals), I'd go with the Whisperlite. If you expect it to be windy, I'd go with the Whisperlite.

If you expect calm and warm and are going solo or with maybe one or at most two others, I'd go with the PR.

HJ

Thanks Jim, good info.
I appreciate your contributions to this site. You provide a wealth of information for relative newbies to bacpacking stoves such as myself.

Hi, Snubbie,

You're welcome. I hope I'm able to make sense out of all this. There are a boatload of different stoves out there.

HJ

Trangia ......

Its a shame they are not marketed more here in the states.

An interesting study. I have also done studies that I have posted on this board because it was fun to do. Sounds like you enjoyed it also. But yes, I think you are missing some things. IMO there's no one stove/fuel cimbination that suits all situations and the cost difference (they're all expensive) of various fuels is insignificant when you face the possibility of a stove that doesn't work when you are counting on it.

I use Isobutane for summer backpacking because it's lightweight, simple and reliable when temps are on the warm side.

I use white gas stoves when I anticipate low temps because white gas will burn effectively at low temps. I also use white gas for trips into the Alaska bush because I haven't seen Isobutane canisters on the shelves in Alaska hub communities.

I use propane for base camping because it's reliable and the appliances are simple to operate (K.I.S.S.) and I don't care about weight/bulk when base camping.

I don't use wood because it's messy, and smokey, and it's a lot of work, and it's slow, and there are places where it's environmentally unsound, and there are places where you can't find wood. Having said that it's interesting to note that the best steak that I ever ate was broiled over open coals of a campfire.

I don't use alcohol because it produces fewer BTUs per unit so you have to carry more fuel to heat a given amount of water and because it's too slow. However, when my boy scouts tell me that they can't afford to buy a stove I show them how to make an alcohol burner out of a can.

The cost of the fuel isn't really a part of my formula.

KC

elkhunter_241:

I wonder when that changed. I use to see them on the shelves of a sporting goods store here in Colorado Springs that was named Grand West Outfitters. They closed up shop several years ago. Now that I think about it, I haven't seen any on store shelves for a while.

KC

Here is an interesting write up the Trangia.

http://climber.org/gear/TrangiaStove.html

He speculates that REI destroyed the market for them but that is changing as of late.

What is so neat about the set up is that it isnt just the burner, its a complete system, very well thought out and executed.

You can get a canister and multi fuel burner for it as well.

http://www.trangia.se/english

Hikin Jim did a write up on one of the Trangia 27's on his blog.

As I said, its a shame it is so difficult to find here as it is a very clever set up.

They're pretty available on eBay. Liberty Mountain also carries Trangia stoves and accessories.

HJ

Speaking of which:
The Trangia 27
and
[b][i][u]A Look at the Trangia Alcohol Burner[/u][/i][/b]

HJ

What you cannot get here in the states is the Hard Anodizing with the nonstick coating, you can get the nonstick or the anodized, but not the sets that have both. Also the multi fuel burner appears to be unavailable stateside as well.

Also I emailed them and asked if the tea kettles were anodized and they said no, it was too difficult to do it, which I found a little preplexing because GSI sells an anodized kettle for 22ish dollars.

Speaking of which,

Jim, what is your opinion of anodizing with and without nonstick coating.

Is the anodizing good enough or better without the teflon or does the teflon make it even better yet?

Nice Blog site, I look forward to following it and reading your archives.

Did I read in a backpacking light.com article that the PR has significant CO output, so to be avoided in a vestibule.
Don

It is also possible to mount a Primus Omnifuel stove burner in a Trangia.

I have two Trangia sets, a 25 and a 27. Both are plain aluminum, so I can't specifically address Trangia's particular non-stick coating.

I can make the following very general comments:
For cooking real food, especially the fry pan, it is nice to have a non stick coating. Non stick coatings tend to be less durable than hard anodization. A good non-stick coating holds up reasonably well so long as you don't use metal utensils. You also want to have something in he pot or pan (don't heat the pot or pan empty in other words).

Hard anodization puts a very hard coating on aluminum. Hard anodization makes things more durable, but it's not quite the same as a non-stick coating. Hard anodization is far more durable than any non-stick coating I've ever seen, although there are a lot of newer non-stick coatings that are really an improvement over what was available, say, 10 years ago.

HJ

Primus makes the X2 for Trangia, although I heard it was a lower BTU output due to the face the regular Primus burners has a tendency to melt the windscreen of the Trangia sets.

So Jim, in essence a nonstick coating on top of hard anodizing would be the way to go, which is why I am persistently pursuing the avenue I am.

The Omnifuel is offered with a maximum output of 3000 Watt. The X2 has a maximum output of 2800 Watt. That doesn�t look like a huge difference to me. I don�t know how it is possible to melt the windscreen if the burner is properly mounted. I bought the Omnifuel because the X2 wasn�t available back then in Germany. Additionally X2 and Omnifuel have the same price tag but with the Omnifuel I get an entire stove and not just a burner.

Yeah, that would be a really nice set up. You would basically want a Trangia 27-5 HA (no kettle) or 27-6 HA (with the kettle).

Doggone if you aren't right, though. There's nobody selling it that I can find. Not even eBay. Weird. Maybe it's so high end that there aren't many of them?

Have you tried contacting Liberty Mountain and seeing if you can special order it? I see that they do carry a lot of Trangia models.

If not, maybe you could order direct from Trangia is Sweden? If they won't sell direct, perhaps they can tell you how to get one.

HJ

The 25-5 HA is exactly the set I want, I would add the GSI kettle to it.

I have cousins in Sweden, seeing if they can get me one.

There you go. Good idea.

Looks like a really sweet set up. Love to see some pics of it in use if you get some...

HJ