Hey all,

I'm looking to replace my down jacket in preparation for an October hunt in the Pecos Wilderness. Wondering what others use and recommend.

I'm looking for a mid-weight jacket-- somewhere between "down sweater" and arctic parka. I don't anticipate temps below 15 degrees. Light, warm and packable are very important with cost/value being a secondary (but important) consideration. I'd like a hood too.

On my short list so far is Mont-bell ( Alpine Light) and Feathered Friends ( [color:#FF0000]Daybreak Hooded[/color] )

Any suggestions or experience?

thanks

The Montbell looks like it would be a LOT warmer as it is puffier. The FF is more of a down "sweater" it appears.

I've had an Alpine light for quite a while and used it hard. It's been much more durable than I expected. I also like the WM flash in that general weight range. Montane makes some decent down jackets as well, like the Featherlite. The North Star is nice as well, don't have one but have used it. Their fabrics are on par or better than Pertex in my opinion.

I've had a FF Helios for several years now. It is a great piece of kit and is between a down sweater and arctic parka. Mine does not have the hood. It is very packable and very warm for the weight. When this one wears out, I will buy another.

At those temps I'd use either my patagonia nano puff hoody or my kuiu spindrift, there are some great products out there for sure when it comes to weight/warmth ratio.

Based on using their products, my suggestions would be to buy one of the lighter models made by the following firms and in this order.

1. Westcomb of Vancouver, BC-this is the finest mountain clothing I have yet worn and that includes a LOT of Canadian, US, Euro. and some "Antipodean" and even Asian gear over the years.

2. Valnadre-superb, fine quality and very practical designs.

3. WM and FF, very good, about "equal" overall and I think that the WM down gear is made here in Vancity for them by Westcomb.

There are others and less costly models, but, these impress me most and are, IMHO, also the "best value" in the long term.

For MY uses in BC, a place where it DOES get cold, I like the light "Chilko" model by Westcomb best of all and one of these is in my future, if I ever wear out the several ID, Montbell and Richard Egge jackets I currently have.

Note: Most of my current jackets are synthetics, due to living on the BC Coast, but, with only one downie, the "expedition" double duvet Egge, I am hoping to buy my wife and I matching Westcombs, when/if we move to the Kootenays and colder weather.

I sure love my Mountain Hardwear subzero. It's a little more substantial than you were asking for, but honestly it awesome because its compresses in its own tuff sack, weight is great and it's perfect foe putting on once you get in position. I travel with just light weight polypropylene and my shell on, usually unzipped to keep from sweating. Get to your glassing spot or stand and put it on and then your goretex shell over it. Cozy.

I appreciate all the feedback gentlemen. My eyes have been opened to some new brands-- just wish it were easier to see these jackets in person.

Conrad101-- that's the exact scenario I'm planning for. A few hours of use each morning & evening while glassing.

Thanks again for the input--- time to stare deep into the wallet.

Some great brands have been mentioned....but there are cheaper alternatives as well. I got a Marmot Zeus half zip pullover for $80 on sale and it is serving me well. I had one tear on the chest but a bit of superglue fixed that.

What about the Kuiu Super Down jacket?

Another vote for the KUIU Super Down, mine goes with me every time.

I would strongly recommend a jacket with a hood.

I have both the Superdown and Flash jackets. The Flash is warmer (noticeably) but the Superdown has a better hood and layers better. I also have a Montbell down jacket and can recommend them as well.

Most of the jackets recommended will never be found in a local store. I would narrow it down to 2 or 3 and order all of them. Try them on at home and send the losers back.

+1 on the hood. I have a MB Alpine Light parka that I really like. Light, warm and compressible and as durable as you'd expect.

-1 on the hood. I hate hoods. My ears are the eyes in the back of my head. I can't hear with a hood. Some from sound baffling, but mostly just from the noise the hood makes flexing and dragging on other clothing.

Had you ever snowshoed up and down the AK pipeline, at night, at minus 50F, you'd change your mind about hoods.

One of my favorite "jackets", isn't. It is a Golite Cirrus down vest with omni tape sewn to the collar. This enables me to fasten a Jacks R'Better Down Hood to the vest collar. This hood has twice the insulation of anything else on the market. Arms cold? Slip on JRB's down sleeves.

This setup will drop the comfort rating of a sleeping quilt 15-20 degrees, mostly due to the hood and all that down around your neck.

You're talking about two completely different purposes. TOM is talking about a hunting situation while you're referring to a midnight hike.

No, I'm talking about not becoming a Hatchet Jack impersonator:


After you die from hypothermia in sub-freezing conditions, that is your next state. Just because you have a jacket with a hood, doesn't mean you have to use it. No hat is as effective, period, and hats can get lost or forgotten.

You're using an extreme example to support a weak argument. Hoods have their place, but not everyone faces hypothermia and/or death when hunting. It's a big world out there and your way isn't always/often the best.

You sound like my wife

It's a darn good thing I wasn't taking a drink of something when I read that. I'd have spewed it all over my keyboard!

My favorite down jackets come from ---

Valandre, because they have baffled construction, fit like they are tailor-made, their goose down is 850+ fill and comes from mature geese. Currently use the Immelman model. Their new Moulan Rouge is a super nice jacket as well.

Western Mountaineering - Great down fill from Poland and really well made.

Westcomb - beautifully constructed and super high quality down.

New to the USA this year is CRUX, a U.K. brand. Nice down jackets with an Event shell. Really high quality down, 850+ from Poland.

Not Montbell (even though I am a retailer for them) - I always get chilled in their jackets and sleeping bags, they just don't seem to be true to their ratings for me.

That Feathered Friends one that you are considering looks super nice, I'm sure it would work great, based on FF's reputation.

To stay within the original parameters of intended use, as given by the guy who is going to pay for and use this, I would suggest NOT buying a jacket, FOR THIS situation, with an attached hood.

As it happens, I HAVE snowshoed, VERY extensively in extreme cold and also camped, alone, in BC wilderness at slightly colder than -40* and did this quite often over a period of some 20+ years.

I have two parkas, with detachable hoods, one my old Richard Egge, double duvet and the other my Integral Designs, Pl, "Dolomiti" model, the warmest they made and these are TOO warm for any temps. above 0*F, for me, anyway. So, the hood is just needless weight and they DO obstruct vision, hearing and are in the way for some activities.

What I find more useful, is to have a lighter "down sweater", over merino wool base layer, a super-light down vest and an eVent hooded shell or perhaps one of the new "Neoshell", which I just love after using my Westcomb "Apoc" all last winter.

This type of system, IF, carefully chosen and with eVent pants over merino or synthetic long johns, will work to 0*F and be both more versatile and less cumbersome than any other setup I know of.

Even in some of the worst BC winters, I have used such a system far more often than my heavier down/synthetic parkas and I actually seldom ever use the hood in hunting season. So, this is the way to go, IMHO.

No matter what type of jacket you buy, I am certainly in the camp of having a detachable hood. when the hood isn't detached you are carrying the weight of the entire jacket on the top of your head, or so it sometimes seems. On the other hand, it is vital to not let heat escape from your head.

Lots of great brands mentioned here, most of which my wallet could never handle. So cheaper stuff like Columbia's stuff has had to work for me.

Come on to Minnesota sometime and stand outside ice fishing in 20 below with the wind blowing if you want to test your gear!

We don't buy without a hood these days. at least on the light stuff like a down jacket.

Stuff it down inside the jacket but its there when/if needed.

I'm a bit surprised about the discussion on hoods. In the class of jackets the OP is looking at they add very little weight but significant warmth. And as others have noted, you don't have to wear it at all times. These types of jackets also make great garments to wear in your sleeping bag or quilt to extend it's temperature rating. In the case of a quilt the hood is critical.

I think you must not be paying attention. I didn't say anything about weight. I don't like hoods because the noise they make masks outside noise and they interfere with my peripheral vision.

However, since you mention it, hoods do typically pull down on my head / neck and increase neck strain. For a similar reason, I don't like suspenders ... on rain gear, for instance.

I don't sleep wearing a jacket .. period. If I need it, I'll toss it over the outside of my bag, but it's not going inside with me.

A hood is NOT critical.

Sorry TOM. Just because I don't agree doesn't mean I wasn't paying attention. IMHE a mid weight down jacket with the hood tucked away doesn't make much if any difference the noise of the jacket, and certainly doesn't affect vision. Personally if I'm worried about the noise of my insulating layer a down jacket would not be my first choice. I would go with a synthetic like fleece, primaloft, etc. I always use my Kuiu Spindrift instead of the Superdown when bow hunting simply because by nature of the materials used in its construction it is noticeably quieter.

As for the hood of a down jacket causing head and neck strain ..... You're on your own with that one.

I definitely agree that a hood is not critical. Just a smart way to add extra warmth and flexibility to a clothing piece.

You need to see a chiropractor every week for about six months.

Guess I got busted in snark mode. I owe you an apology.

My answer for the situations most people would wear a hood is a ragg cap. Since it isn't connected to the collar, it doesn't flex and make noise when I turn my head. I can think of maybe twice when I was guiding (winter steelhead fishing) and once when I was rabbit hunting (about 0 degrees) when I pulled it on down over my ears.

I'm not sure how it'd work out .. prolonged compression 'n' such ... but it seems like a hood that'd roll up like some of the rain coat hoods do might have some utility.

I'm shopping for something which is what lead me to read this thread. 10-ish years ago Browning's name was on a line of fairly in-expensive down coats. About $65 around here. They had a heavier outer material so they were marginally ok as a work coat (at least for cutting firewood and such). Rip-stop nylon is a little too fragile for me. My old browning has pretty near worn out. I also have a very old, yellowish-white down coat I got from Cabela's probably 25 years ago. I like it a lot for hiking around in the sage or for fishing, but the shell is too lightly constructed for work use.

Because of my back problems, my answer for sleeping is to use a hoodless, long bag, slide clear down into it, then toss my jacket over top if I need it to somewhat close the top end. If I'm too confined when I sleep, I have problems. I wound up giving away (to my daughter, so not exactly a loss :)) a Western Mountaineering "HighLite" bag ... 16 ounces, 35 degree rating, 'cause it was too tight for me.

Tom

Crux has a good reputation. Word has it that getting a pack called the "AK 47" shipped across the pond causes problems

You nailed that right on the head!
I ordered samples of their waterproof bag, called a Torpedo, their jacket, called a Pyro, and their single skin tent, called an Assault X-1...
Needless to say, it got delayed in U.S. Customs for four or five days! Fortunately they are setting up U.S. Distribution in Ft. Collins, CO.

Wearing a DOWN jacket, or, ANY isulated jacket or vest INSIDE a sleeping bag is the most inefficient and ineffective means of "adding" additional "warmth" to said bag. It compresses the down, can cause it to dampen from your increased perspiration and/or condensation and also makes many bags too tight, which lessens the effectiveness of the bag's insulation and can can cause cramps in your extremities from being too snugly cocooned.

Tossing a down jacket on top of a down bag can cause some of the same problems, the jacket typically will NOT stay in position all night and this is largely a waste of time.

Hoods, on expedition parkas, used, for example in winter Alaska and Canada's northern territories ARE beneficial, but, for a HUNTING jacket, in, again, the conditions given by the OP, they really do not do anything that other systems do better, as above.

I have spent many years working in wilderness and forest harvesting situations, doing certain types of forestry work, where the anbient temperature all day was around -25*F, we were on a large, deep, glacier-fed lake and it is windy in those mountains. I never saw ONE "pro" bushman wearing a hood, but, lots with woolen caps and some ear protection as well.

I think that making sure your BAG is sufficient to cope with the LOWEST temp. you will encounter and wearing the layer system I detailed above will work far better than a hood on a light jacket. That said, buy whatever YOU like and see how it works for YOU.

BTW, if you need additional insulation for your down bag and cannot afford a second one or a new WM, I suggest one of the "overbags" sold inexpensively under their brand label by MEC here in Vancouver. I have often slept at -10*F with an Integral bivy, my "summer" bag, full fresh merino longjohns, fresh wool socks, and my old woolen British "tanker" beret...and was warm all night and rested in the morning. Layers work and learning to do this will make your trips more enjoyable.

Full Disclosure: I have never been to BC. I have never spent 200 days a year sleeping in a bag. I have never hung out with loggers or done forestry work. I have never worn a "tanker" beret or full merino long johns (I don't even know what those 2 are..... and please, no pictures). :-) Seriously Kutenay, you crack me up at times.

Just to be clear, the OP is asking about a mid-weight down jacket with a hood to use in the Pecos, New Mexico. New Mexico. You would think he was going to one of the poles. :-)

IMHE a light down jacket, or any other similar garment is a great way to to expand the range of your sleeping bag. This practice is very well documented and used extensively in some backpacking circles with great success. In fact, some recommend buying a bag that will allow for some layering of extra clothing to use in this regard, I would include myself in this group. This allows for a jacket to become a multiple use item and can lower your overall pack weight. Wearing a down jacket like the WM Flash in a properly sized sleeping bag WILL ABSOLUTELY ADD WARMTH. Increased perspiration will only occur if you overheat. If that's the case take off the hood, or remove the jacket, or unzip the bag partially, loosen the draw cord, etc. I tend to avoid the jacket on top of the bag as I toss and turn and it never stays in place. A sedentary sleeper may have better luck.

Fortunately the OP is not headed to the far north to harvest timber. So it may be socially acceptable for him to wear a hood. :-) IMHO a hood is a great asset in the cold early and late hours of the day when sitting behind a spotting scope for extended periods of time glassing for mulies or elk. They also work great around camp or other similar conditions. Insulation on the head is very weight efficient as a great deal of heat is lost in that area. In the morning when it starts to warm up, take the hood off and tuck it away. As the day continues to warm, lose the jacket. Repeat in reverse order at night. Works great.

Just $0.02 from a regular guy who hunts in states adjacent to NM and similar conditions to the Pecos.