I am trying to sell/trade my current stove for a more versatile stove.

I am considering 3 stoves, all by MSR.

MSR Whisperlite Universal
MSR Windpro II
MSR Dragonfly

I sat down and made a list of what I was looking for:

• Lightweight
• Mainly used for boiling water
• Can be used to cook small game (squirrel, grouse, rabbit, etc) in the event wood fires aren't allowed.
• Can support Evernew 1L pot filled with water at a rolling boil on uneven surfaces

As for fuel sources (ideally) it would be a woodburning stove, but with fire restrictions/possible of lack of fuel, not very practical. I like the versatility of canister/fuel bottle of the Whisperlite, but not a necessity. I won't be traveling internationally so I'll always have access to canister fuel.

Flame control (simmer-to-scorch) would be nice, but not necessary.

What's your opinion of the 3 stoves? Any other alternative stoves you might suggest?

EDIT: It may be useful to add that the stove would be used for 1 person for 3-7 day excursions most of the time.

I wish somebody would test a bunch of stoves and present some kind of semi-objective comparison in table format.

Wait a minute... somebody did!
http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/Backpacking-Stove-Reviews/ratings

I don't think you could go wrong with any of the three you mention. I have the International, and like it, though most of my stoving anymore is done with a Jetboil (which I prefer for normal temps and boiling water).

The Dragonfly has a great reputation for power and simmering ability. I've not used one.

Same here. Love my Whisperlite, use my Jetboil more than anything else.



Travis

Interesting...

I have the alternative to the JetBoil, the Reactor (listed in the classifieds). It's nice for the mornings when you want water for coffee RFN, but otherwise it's useless for me.

Of course I don't have the luxury of being able to afford Mountain House, most my meals involve oatmeal/home dried fruit/walnuts or powdered eggs. Dinner's usually some kind of pouched protein (chicken, tuna, salmon) with quinoa/couscous/rice.

Alukban, thanks for the link! Very useful!

When I read "lightweight" and "mainly used for boiling water" I think of a Ti Jetboil.



Travis

But if you do actual cooking, the JetBoil doesn't look so great. Mainly I boil water for coffee, oatmeal and couscous (since all it needs is a soak in hot water).

But I also cook powdered eggs (scrambled in coconut oil with bacon bits), Rice-A-Roni/Pasta-Roni dishes, and sometimes trout or small game. With the jetboil set up, fry pan, pot stabilizer, you're looking at almost 20 oz and $225

With the WindPro II (the closest in function to the JetBoil, IMO) and the 900mL pot, you're looking at 10.7 oz for $157

If you have done a serious cost comparison, it would be interesting.

You aren't trying to make MH a major part of your budget.

Kovea Spider

Can't add anything on the exact stoves, but I can say that I have a liquid fuel only Whisperlite and I absolutely hate it. Maybe I am doing something wrong, but it takes a very long time to get a good jet flame going and it is very easy to let out too much fuel initially to light the stove and then have a massive yellow flame engulfing the stove, something rivaling the Hindenburg burning up, before getting the jet effect going. The bloody thing in this stage is a real fire hazard. I used it this summer on a 6 day BP trip thru the Sawtooths of Idaho and compared to the Scouts with me, with Canister stoves, they ended up using far less weight in gas and stove combined, compared to what I was packing. I am glad I took what I thought was too much fuel for the trip, as I almost used it all up. I may look into the Whisperlite International with the gas capability or just stick with my old reliable and very tiny Snowpeak stove!

I did the math on the mountain house pouches. Comes out to .0139 cents per calorie. If you're active and backpacking, you'll want to get about 3000 calories/day.

.0139 x 3000 = $41.70

I don't even have to compare with standard grocery food fare, I know it's going to be cheaper per calorie.

EDIT:

Next time I shop for a backpacking trip, I'll save the receipts/boxes and do an actual price per calorie comparison between grocery store & Mountain House.

The only price breaker I can see between the two is possibly cost of fuel (and wouldn't be a factor cooked over a wood fire).

CabinetMtnsGoat,

You have a good point regarding the flare up. If you had to cook under shelter/in tent, that might be unnerving and dangerous.

As for your other issues, I got a chance to use the Whisperlite when I was volunteering with AmeriCorp conservation programs, and I found them easy to use. The only problem I had was if I didn't pay attention and pump the fuel bottle the flame would go out.

And being hearing impaired I couldn't hear the flame go out and with a windscreen/pot in place couldn't see the flame. So by the time I noticed, if I tried to re-lite, I'd get a big 'ol fireball. This only happened twice though.

I think unless you are really into cold weather/winter camping, why in the world screw around with liquid fuel stoves, pumping, low pressure, forest fires, etc when you can just click a button or light one match and have full (and safe) power with gas canister stove?? In a foreign country that I frequent, I do have one of the famous old MSR International liquid fuel stoves that burn almost anything - it's great, but a bit heavy and big for backpacking (and way faster to a jet flame and more dependable than the 'vaunted' POS Whisperlite!!)

Not knocking what you do. Lets be clear!

Just wondering how to calculate the convenience of MH. As well a the time to prepare meals. I was actually thinking of the cost of pre-packaged tuna, meats, rice, etc.

I agree the fuel cost is a wash.

Finally did some reading on this stove, and it seems like a good choice. Except I can't find any US retailers!

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trk...=Kovea+Spider&_sacat=0&_from=R40

You can put a standard pot on a Jetboil. They have an adapter.

A Whisperlite isn't going to be do what you're looking for without adding undue weight and will be less user friendly as well.

If you need something to try out, try a MSR Pocket Rocket or a Giga.

Those Americorps chicks put out by the way! I've ran into a few of them! Good stuff.


Travis

To eat $41.70 worth of Mountain House per day you have to eat 5 or 6 of them. I'm not sure if I like them that much either I've only used them as a dinner meal. 600+ calories for $7-$8, light weight, easy prep. The way I figure it, if I was at home I wouldn't be eating for free anyway..

I sold my whisperlite after it sitting for a year unused, preferring instead the pocket rocket.
You've mentioned a wood stove...
I also carry an emberlit titanium. Nice backup & affordable.

http://www.emberlit.com/en/

Emberlits rock. I carry a similar setup (giga + emberlit). Morning coffee with the giga and dinner with the emberlit. The emberlit also lets you scratch the pyro itch, so you can get your campfire fix without having to mess with a campfire.

The stove I'd really like to get and try is the Soto Muka because I like the idea of being able to use unleaded fuel AND NOT HAVING SOOT

I hate soot! It gets on your gear and it's like it was marked up with a Sharpie and won't come off.

Whisperlite is hard to beat for simplicity and it's nice to know that the tank is full. I have a bunch of 'tweener Iso cylinders laying around. It doesn't simmer as well as the DragonFly for sure. I've made pancakes on it with a Ti 1400 lid and had zero issues. If you remove the burner from the base it stows nicely in the Ti 1400 set. My new favorite is a Ti 600 mug and SnoPeak Ti stove. Still Iso, but light and tight. Iso gets a little slow when the temps dip too.


Even lighter is a homemade cat stove which is kind of a cool little deal, but don't be in a hurry to eat.



My OG Jetboil gets used and abused more than anything. I have the pan attachment and have fried bacon, eggs, cooked rice, and sauted loins with it. Heat control sucks and you have to watch it. Wasn't horrid, but a far cry from the Dragonfly.

So yeah, get a couple. I'm temped to get the Ti Jetboil myself. Can never have too many options.

If you just want a warm cup of joe, this will get you to about 145 degrees in 6 minutes.

Mountain house is expensive. So are the power bars, cliff bars, etc. It adds up

I do a MH for dinner. Breakfast is oatmeal and coffee. I have never cooked anything for lunch, its always bars, nuts, trail mix etc. I bring a lot of those dry as hell nature valley granola bars, they are cheap and light.

I find MH at Walmart occasionally for $5.80, and generally stock up there or costco. But still, I'm easily $15 into food for a day, probably a lot more.

A quick walmart search (nobody else seems to have prices) shows:

Mountain House (noodles and chicken): $0.010163636/cal
Light tuna in water: $0.0124375/cal
Tuna in oil: $0.01147619/cal
Instant Oatmeal: $0.001694444/cal
Almonds: $0.002475/cal


That being said, eating things you kill while out there has its own value outside the monetary thing. I have learned never to calculate the cost of certain things...fish being a primary example.

Super Clean and a green Brillo pad take the soot off of pots.

To the OP. I know you stated you didn't want the Jetboil. But the one I have can be set up standard:


Or with the adapter to use like a regular stove:




Travis

Not giving a schit works great also.



Travis

I sometimes break mine out on day hikes and have a cup of coffee, just because of the "pyro fix" you mention.

I've also noticed the heat it puts out. In a survival situation, I've thought a small poncho-shelter set up against a big tree or rock, with this little stove just outside the opening, feeding twigs into it all night, could provide enough heat to keep one semi-comfortable or at least, keep from freezing to death. Of course, it would require constant attention feeding the sticks into it.

In a survival situation, do you have anything better to do than feed your stove while you're waiting to get rescued?

That Emberlit looks pretty cool. The mini caught my attention.

Sure, I always whip out a deck of cards and play solitaire. It never fails, before I know it, some son-of-a-gun is lookin' over my shoulder telling me which card to play next......

I have the MSR Reactor and I love it. However, I usually boil water for my meals. I wish they made some sort of pan or griddle that fit it like the pot does. Not sure why they don't? I can say I think fuel canisters are handier than pouring, priming, etc.

I have the Snowpeak Gigapower for when all I want to do is boil water. If I am "cooking" anything I use my Windpro, it has the larger burner. The Windpro is better for larger pots. Make sure you get the Windpro II if you go that route, it has the more flexible canister hose

Just a few comments.

There's no perfect stove for every situation.

White gas stoves work best in low temps (below 25�F) where butane canister stoves perform poorly. I own a Whisperlite and a Dragonfly. I like the Dragonfly best. Have no experience with the WindPro.

Butane canister stoves work best for lightweight summer backpack trips where weight, bulk and convenience clearly out perform white gas stoves. I own an MSR Pocket Rocket and an Optimus Crux. I like the Pocket Rocket best. I've watched friends use their GegaPower stoves and they appear to perform just as well as a Pocket Rocket.

I use Propane appliances for car camping, because they are as convenient as butane products and the fuel is a little cheaper.

KC

The simmerlite doesn't simmer well, but I can make it work for actually cooking a dinner. Same for whisperlite. Simmerlite is a skosh lighter. Whisperlite has better flame shape for a small pot. Neither use a great deal of fuel - I cooked one hot dinner a day (only a couple of which were freeze dried, remainder required ~10min of simmer time) for two guys for 14 days, plus about a half dozen shots of oatmeal and coffee water for buddy, all on one 22-oz tank of fuel in a simmerlite. We were pretty astounded about how long it lasted. I don't bring spare fuel anymore, for sure.

Lighting either one is not nearly as big a deal as some here indicate, if you pay attention and learn what's going on.

I plan on transitioning to all cold food for solo early hunts. I'll entertain cooking if a partner is with to share stove, pot and fuel weight. Late season is a different story.

In case you wanted to see a bunch of specs in a convenient format:

http://gearatlas.com/compare-gear/backpacking_stoves

Any of your options are good. Really only need that kind of stove at altitude anymore.
I've had a pocket rocket for a while now and they are handy because they are easy to keep on hand. If you are not going out for a long time one canister goes a long way. I find I use it on the tailgate of a pickup to make coffee or soup as often as in a camp. Have only heated water on it so can't speak to simmer qualities.
That said, I bought one of these under $10 chinese versions with a piezo igniter. Thought they would be great in bug out bags. They are way better than that.
http://www.amazon.com/Ultralight-Ba...mp;sr=8-1&keywords=backpacking+stove

Just a helpful hint. The canister will work fine on those cold mornings if you just throw the canister down in the footbox of your bag before bed and sleep with it. Shake it good the next morning.


Oh, and don't smoke in bed.

Here's another comparison/review of various stoves.

http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/Backpacking-Stove-Reviews

I prefer a the dragon fly. Easy start, flame level adjustment to simmer and full nuke boil. Starts easy at altitude and can go easy on the fuel consumption. The extra weight is worth it.

Have also used the wood type stoves for outings in areas with fuel available.

I've used the same stove for 20+ years. I don't even remember what kind it is? Damn thing always just plain works.


The Jetboils look pretty slick. Is there much difference 'tween the Ti and standard?

I don't use tobacco, but I've been known to 'smoke' in bed after eating certain foods. Will that blow one up?

No, but you can increase the volatility of the situation ten-fold!

I have run a simmerlite for crap I don't remember how long now. I love it. There was a little bit of a learning curve the first few times I used it though. In regards to those big flare ups at the beginning you guys mentioned. It sounds like you guys may not be pre heating the stove. Here is what I do . I build the pressure in the fuel bottle before every use. Next , just barely crack the fuel inlet to the stove open and let the ever so smallest bit of fuel wet the jet and close the vale again ( it is literally a split second) ignite the dampened jets and let that fuel burn of for a second, the flame will go out. This will pre heat the stove. At this point you should be able to slowly open the valve and ignite a blue flame and the got to wide open throttle on the stove with no giant flare ups . This is what I do and it works the same every time. I can usually cook 2 meals a day for 10-11 days on a large bottle.Hope this helped

I enjoy fiddling with volcano stoves for the most part.

Super Cat alcohol stoves get used pretty often too.








Kids dig the volcano type for serious cooking:

Few things better on a wet snowy day than hot chow and a mini campfire:

Another vote for the Kovea Spider: http://woodtrekker.blogspot.com/2013/02/kovea-spider-kb-1109-long-term-review.html

Hey Wood_Trekker, please stick around. I love your reviews and visit your website fairly often.

To the OP, the Jetboil is very hard be for if you're only boiling water. It's the one I use the most for that purpose. The Dragonfly probably meets your total requirements for everything from a simmer/cook to rolling boils however. The Whisperlite and International version are both very solid and proven stoves as well, and by finessing the bottle pressure, you can make an OK simmer/cook with them too. The weak link in any of the MSR stoves is the plastic pumps however. I've never personally had an issue, but it's a possibility. For that reason, I'd also consider the Optimus Nova. Very good flame control---------maybe not quite a Dragonfly, but still very acceptable, and an absolute bomber stove. The fuel delivery system also allows the fuel line to be drained as you're finishing up using the stove, which I prefer to shaking fuel out of the line after I've unhooked the stove from the bottle with any of the MSR stoves.

For volcano wood burners, the Emberlit or Emberlit Ti are awesome. They store flat, assemble quickly, and are easy to use. Nothing beats the smell of wood smoke either...........assuming you're in the mood to slow things down and enjoy the trip.

For alcohol stoves either the Trangia with a pot support, or a White Box are my favorites.

Dragonfly and Bambi on the AT wasn't shabby.....