I'll go with the fabled, BERETTA TOMCAT 32 ACP ...

Not too small, so it still feels like you have a real gun in your hand -
and may also serve as a visual deterrent thwarting some sharp-eyed adversary.

The unique 'tip-up' barrel feature also allows the shooter the ability to chamber a round without racking the slide -
in that certain emergency.

how we defining mouse?

Def; A gun for fighting Mice.

Jerry

22, 25, 32, or 380?

(Technically, B-B Guns are Sub-Mouse Guns.)

Never seen one in person but I understand the Seecamps are handy for mouse .... I like my Kahr PM 9 just fine for pocket carry though....

Kahr P380.

LCR 22LR by a mile.


Travis

What do you mean by "fighting"? Is this another one of those forum discussions where everybody imagines assaulting a garrison of ninjas with their handgun and dozens of magazines?

Well, I have been carrying a keltec P32 for a couple of weeks now in my front pocket in a pocket holster. It is easy to carry and pretty UN-noticable but with my big hands it is slow to get out of the pocket. Main thing I have it with me. miles

I am finally liking my P938, but 9mm's might overpenetrate a mouse...

I took it to mean having to use deadly force to protect yourself or others.


Travis

No mouse gun is best, there is simply no such thing

I�d say the best fighting mousegun is the LW Colt D frames in .38 Speical; Cobra or Agent.

Yep. "fighting Mousegun" is an oxymoron.

You seem to be a big fan of that revolver. So why the .22lr over the .38 Special when the package is the same size?

Since the OP mentioned a Beretta Tomcat, I'm assuming he's referring to small pocket auto loaders.

I only have one,..an LCP.

It seems to do about anything one could ask of a micro sized auto in .380.

I'm especially impressed with how it feeds, it's accuracy, it's ability to shoot cast handloads well and the fact that it's a locked breech design. It also field strips very easily.

The downside is,..well,..its size.

The grip area is so small that it's difficult to cycle it through it's DAO trigger without pulling it to the right,...or left, I guess, if you're lefthanded.

Hogue has out a grip adapted for it that looks like it would do it a lot of good. They hardly cost anything and I'm going to give one a try.

Sure, it's going to add a little bulk to the pistol, but the only thing keeping an LCP from being a truly outstanding pocket auto is it's ultra small grip.

Fix that, and it would be a tiny .380 auto that shoots well enough to actually use for something other than a defensive tool.

The Hogues look like this.

Because I shoot a hell of a lot more 4 legged vermin than I do two legged.



Travis

...now come on guys..be nice to PW....

...and snubbies are not "Mouse" size...they are "Rats"... The only revolvers that would qualify would be the "mouse" size mini-revolvers from Freedom Arms and NAA....

...and don't forget derringers...Cobra, Bond, ADC, High Standard...

After owning or borrowing just about everything mouse size I have come down to the KelTec .32 and the old High Standard .22 Magnum Derringer. The KelTec .32 just shot better for me than any of the others. The two I have been ultra reliable with everything they have been fed. The HS Derringer is just 101% reliable and extremely fast for the two shots... A close third is the NAA Black Widow in .22 Magnum...

Bob

Well that just makes far too much sense; try again

Small frame revolvers are really tough to shoot. A .22 makes a lot of sense for training purposes. If you�re carrying yours all the time, and using it for 4 legged critters, that means you�re using it and probably practicing with it a lot; smart. I often carry a S&W 431 in .32 H&R mag which is an airweight; nice little revolver. I managed to pick up one of the .22 airweights which I thought would be an understudy�unfortunately mine was horribly inaccurate and didn�t shoot to point of aim; I was bummed. So I ended up selling it for a loss to a gunsmith friend of mine who had some plans for it�I don�t think he ever did anything with it.

I�ve treated a lot of people shot with .22�s, it�s a piss poor defense round. But I will admit, I�ve never treated anyone who has been shot more than twice with a .22, so multiple .22 caliber holes might just work. When I think of .22�s for defense, I always think of Mordechai Rachamim who took on 3 very serious terrorists armed with AK�s and grenades; and won. After that incident, he continued to use his Beretta Model 70 on all future operations, to good effect. All comes down to a cool head and effective shot placement. Since you�re a DA revolver man from way back, I�m betting you could get the job done.

Even though you don�t seem to like me much, I�d love to do some DA revolver shooting with you. My absolute favorite handgun is my 10 shot 617 in .22lr�about the most fun you can have with your clothes on.

Big mousegun = Rohrbaugh 9mm (center gun in pics)

Small mousegun = Ruger LCP (gun on right)

Ruger LC9 thrown in there for gits and shiggles. I like it, too.

This is strong side barricade the first day I shot it. 25yds.



Now I know that's not earth shattering. But I don't think I'll meet a lot of people that want to shoot their LCP's or Kel-Tecs against that LCR with a timer, when ranges get past the 7. Not saying NOBODY would, but certainly not many.

Also, you have to understand once you leave the town I live in, you're in most people's definition of the "middle of nowhere". And there's not a snowball's chance in hell I'd go through the trouble of switching guns between town and not town.

But then again, I'm perfectly comfortable walking around the largest cities with no firearm. So I'm certainly not uncomfortable with an 8 shot 22LR. But that's just me.



Travis

I cannot hit a 6" plate with a danged LCP past about 3 yards! LOL

I DO NOT carry an LCP.

Yeah. If "only hits count" I'd be [bleep] with one of those things...

Actually, I just shot a Bodyguard last week and it wasn't bad.


Travis

Yup. That sums it up for me and my Seecamp, too.

Any mouse gun isn't effective, and you're stupid for bothering to carry it, if you don't have 84 extra mags in you.

Just FYI.

If you're referencing my penis, it's not appreciated.


Travis

Youch.

Travis, at 25 yards that ain�t bad at all sir. That would be downright discouraging to anyone on the receiving end.

All micro guns are tough to shoot well,..and I don't claim to be able to shoot anything resembling tight groups with an LCP,...but it's easy to keep on a paper plate at 10 yards.

It's made to snatch out of your pocket to encounter someone at arms length that's getting ready to bash your brains in with a T-ball bat.

But my LCP will hit where you point it.

The trick is, being able to hold it there,..but that's true with any of the tiny pocket pistols.

It has a good amount of inherent accuracy, and that's all you can ask of a package the size of an LCP.

The rest of it is up to the shooter.

On these type of handguns, the Crimson Trace laser is a force multiplier.

It's a great idea because it helps compensate for the itty-bitty sighting radius. But often the problem (as Bristoe is pointing out) is maintaining good trigger control when there is so little to hold on to; and a laser doesn�t fix that. Still, a small pistol with the laser is better than one without.

I've seen lasers exacerbate that problem. With a laser you see every little tremor or movement as you grip and squeeze, and there's a lot of tremor going on.

But if you train with lasers you also see that mostly go away. First time you switch a laser on, that laser bouncing all around is mighty revealing, and more than a little humbling.

IMO a true mouse gun it needs to shoot a true mouse cartridge. 9mm's (including the short) or larger just don't fit the definition.

As for which is best........ Hope I never need to find out.

I've recently aquired two Kel-Tecs, a P3AT (.380) and a PF-9 (9 mm). So, depending on where the cutoff is for "mousegun"...

The .380 literally drops in a pocket and is easily forgotten. For me at least, it represents the most power in the smallest practical platform that I could use effectively, out to not very far, mostly because of the poor sights.

The PF-9, is just enough bigger to make pocket carry kind of a stretch but based on my 200 round break-in session, has an awesome trigger, great sights, is light weight, compact, and I can hit surprisingly effectively with it. It also kicks rather viciously and wore a hole on the inside of my bottom thumb joint during that session- but I guess if I'm needing to expend that much ammo during a gunfight... I've got bigger things to worry about.

I may be wrong, but it seems to me that laser sights may cause a slight (perhaps lethal?) hesitation on the part of the shooter while he looks for the dot on his target before pulling the trigger.