Good Day Men!

Not much of a handgun guy, have had military training many moons ago when 1911's were used, but have found myself needing to carry for protection.

Looking for a 9mm single stack double action that is ultra safe to carry "HOT" and use, but have no idea what is good and what is not. I would like to carry it in a shoulder holster sometimes & on my belt on other occasion. So I'd like recommendations for good usable holsters also.

Thinking something like a Beretta 92 but not sure?

Thank you,
Bill

Thats not a single stack and it is a large pistol. I would suggest a Glock 19.

Do you have to have a single stack? I thought that'd rule out a Beretta.

If double stack is an option, rent or borrow a Glock and M&P and see how they shoot for you. Try the mid-size Glock too, it might be worth the switch to you. Most anybody can shoot one of them, they're both safe, simple, accurate, reliable and inexpensive. And finding holsters / sights for them isn't an issue.

I would also recommend getting some quality basic instruction from someone reputable to get you started on the right foot and help knock some of the rust off. Not everyone needs a ninja school, but a half day of drawing and basic marksmanship can really pay off in the long run. FWIW.

Get an S&W M&P9. Easier to carry than the 92 and fit most hands better. Just one opinion.......... Some will say a Glock 19, but I say shoot all three if possible, then decide.

Okay--I'll be the first.

Get the 9mm that has .45 ACP stamped on the barrel.

Serious though. You will get some good info here. Just keep reading.

Europellet!

I have 2 9mm that I carry from time to time since I mostly carry a Ruger LCR for day to day stuff just to have a gun. When I want to carry more ammo I use either an M&P or a Ruger SR9. I like them both the SR9 feels thinner. Both have very good ergo's but I shoot the Ruger better. I know I can hit with that one on the move. If you need a gun you don't want to just stand there flat footed and make yourself an easy target.

For holster use it is hard to beat a Glock 19. It is large enough to feel and handle like a "real" pistol, but small and well-shaped enough for easy concealability and comfort. It holds 16 rounds of 9mm and is a safe pistol to carry holstered if the loose nut holding the grips does his job correctly.

I've been carrying concealed since 1972 and have never found a better option for concealed holster carry than a Glock 19. I carry mine in a Crossbreed Supertuck IWB holster and don't even know the gun is there while going through my daily activities.

There are other similar sized guns and also larger caliber versions available, but today's 9mm SD ammo is excellent and 16 rounds in the gun is a nice number. Many armed professionals consider the Glock 19 to be the best Glock of all and the best 9mm for CCW.

Okay, Maybe a little more info is needed to help focus your advise.

First and foremost I HATE GLOCKS! Had a 19 several years ago and I would have been better off throwing the darn thing cause it was a piece of crap for accuracy. Maybe it was just that gun but I won't waste my money or time on another one.

This gun will be concealed "kinda"...If most folks know you are wearing a gun they normally won't mess with you...verse them not knowing. I buy classic cars for resale and carry some pretty large sums of cash.

I'd prefer a full sized handgun just in case I need to actually hit someone with the bullet. Not a plastic gun fan. Prefer something nice and shiny like a stainless. Like I said it's more for a deterrent of trouble. I don't need to carry something that has 19+1 that's why I was looking for a single stack 10+1 or some thing like that. 9mm's are fine for scaring folks that might be thinking about messing with me. I've got a S&W 629 but it's a little bulky and heavy. I'd like to keep it fairly thin that's why I'm thinking auto single stack.

Glock 17 or 19. If you think a Glock 19 is not accurate , then you need more practice or learn to shoot .

Sounds like you're describing a 9mm 1911 to me.

Wild Bill - off the top of my head, this is the gun that most closely fits your request...

http://www.kahr.com/Pistols/Kahr-T9-w-Novak-Night-Sights.asp

You should seriously reconsider your "scare them with the gun" plan though. Besides the tactical flaw, it may also be illegal.

So we're looking for a single stack, 9mm, shiny, lightweight, full size pistol that's more accurate than a Glock that can be "mostly" concealed and scare people?

Now I am starting to get scared.

Carry-able, full size 9mm, but not a Glock... have you looked at some of the polymer (or steel for that matter) CZ options? The only thing single-stack, full-size even remotely close would be the rare 9mm 1911. The Beretta 92 is a substantial/heavy/double-stack sidearm but if you've good sized hands and like it, sure, there's that. Wouldn't make many lists for great concealed options, though.

That looks pretty good! I have a concealed weapons permit so having a bulge under my jacket or shirt is okay. Tactical flaw, nah, that is my tactical advantage. I hope! Cops and military use the same, everybody knows they are carrying, right?



Scare people isn't what I meant...I just want them to know I'm carrying without having to say so.



Honestly I tried hard to get that glock to shoot, different ammo, gunsmith checked it out and said it was functionally perfect. I could shoot circles around it with my 629!

Springfield EMP, RIA 1911 if want that type.

But remember - they also have a team backing them up. 's okay if the lump scares 'em off - but be ready to do business if it doesn't.

Wow, only one recommendation for a single stack. I would recommend one if the single stack 9mm 3rd generation S&W.

Find a S&W 3rd Gen stainless in 9mm; sounds like the closest to what you're looking for. If you allow for a double-column magazine, you'll add quite a few more choices.

Not many single stacks available & since you seem to like the Beretta 92's, you might consider a 92 Compact.

Still a double stack, but a nice gun; I have one & it carries much better than a full sized 92.

Here's a link to one currently on GunBroker........the buy now price is about the going rate right now.

Beretta 92 Compact Stainless

MM

Based on your criteria I would vote for a 1911 in 9mm or a Browning Hi Power. Both are great guns and fit your needs nicely. Definitely avoid the 92, I carry one in the military and HATE it!

when i toss all of your criteria into the hopper, one rig i come up with (though not the only one), is the sig/browning bda (somewhat confusing, but i do not refer here to some of the other models also dubbed bda).

if i recall correctly, these rigs were made in the 70's. in appearance, they look essentially like a sig p220, but sport a heel magazine release. the slide flats are polished blue, whilst the rest is matte black, with an anodized alum frame.

it's a single stack, and can be had in 9mm para, .38 super (rare), and .45 acp. the rigs have no absurd manual safety, yet is sports a very efficient decock lever--just like a modern sig...

the 9mm rigs are not exactly abounding--but some looking will snag you one.

you would do well to go with Blue's advice and get some foundational instruction...

Try looking at a Sig Sauer P225, or the old Police version the Sig P6. I have a P6 and carry it frequently. Single stack 9mm and is a very easily carried weapon!

Generally the lump in my pants scares most people off!

Springfield EMP 9mm...
Link http://www.slickguns.com/product/springfield-1911-emp-9mm-3-barrel-10-rnds-1075-shipped

Try a Sig 239. Or a Sig 225 (P6), H&K P7 or S&W 3913, if you don't mind buying used. All are reliable, single stack, flat and conceal easily.

Can someone fill me in on the 3rd Gen smith's? Like the 3913, 6909 & others? What makes them 3rd gen? Are they safer than gen 1 & 2? I take it they are double action/single?

Thanks,
Bill

The tactical advantage that police and military have is not the fact that a gun can be seen on them. It's been proven time and time again that the visibility of a firearm makes you more of a target. Consider who is First targeted in a bank robbery, the guard or the clerk?

The advantage they have is open carry. It's just plain faster to draw, making it faster to get rounds down range. On duty, their uniform makes them a target, so drawing quickly is needed. What you need to ask yourself is how do they carry off duty? Concealed and as hidden as can be.

Surprise is the ultimate tactical advantage. It always has been and always will be.

As to a nice single stack 9mm. Consider a Ruger or Khar along with the others that have been suggested here.

The older S&W 39-2 is a great pistol, excellent ergonomics, quite reliable.

.45 acp 1911

Well, Kevin - I did say "off the top of my head"....and it is rather pointy and lacking in room up there.

The 3913 is the only 3rd gen S&W pistol I am familiar with - and yes, it's another good option for the OP. Probably pretty easy to find one for a good price, still.

Sig 239 meets your criteria.

As far as a solid steel gun goes you would be hard pressed to beat either model you mentioned. Third generation Smiths's are extremely reliable and shoot well in my experience. I would not hesitate to carry either one you mentioned and have had both. I like the 6906 a little more while it's not quite as slim it does have a 12 round mag and never had a hick up with mine. Either would serve you well being a double action first shot then S/A after that. Some people struggle with any of the double action first shot guns but with a little training the first shot can go exactly where you want.

You might want to consider an H&K P7 (PSP). It's a single stack 9mm, all steel, very reliable and absolutely safe until you squeeze the grip to cock it. Pretty hard to have a ND with this mechansm. IME this is an accurate pistol.

Downside is that it's somewhat heavy for caliber (all steel), a bit spendy and mostly available used, but mags and spare parts are still available new. The mag is heel release, but reliably ejects the mag, and fast with practice.

Any holster made for a 1911 will fit the P7. If you like a horizontal carry one of the Galco Miami Classic versions work well. IWB is easy because the frame is very thin.

P7s fit your specs well. The weight and ergonomics allow fast accurate fire.

If you insist on a single stack magazine, then it's an older Smith, with perference for the 3rd generation or maybe a smaller 1911.
My favorite 9mm for social purposes is the Browning HP. Still kick myself for selling the one I had. E

EMP, if you can deal with cocked & locked.
3rd gen Smith if you prefer sa/da. I recently found an as new in box 908. It carries and functions very well. The da pull is like a very good revolver.

full size 9mm and single stack don't go together. unless you are talking lugers or some ancient design handgun. 9mm is double stack unless you want a small pistol. its too bad you don't like glocks, I was once that way myself but not anymore. carry something in a black hawk serpa holster, its comfortable and with a coat or long shirt it can conceal the gun. lots of options out there besides glock, CZ 75 is a great one, FNS is another one. and of course XD makes quite a few.

I for one am not a fan of the open carry argument. if you ever got into an argument with someone and they really wanted to mess you over all they have to do is call the cops and say you waved a gun around at them. your probably going to get arrested, your gun taken, and some huge legal hassles. not a good idea if you ask me.

What is with the fixation on Glocks? They have to be the most over-rated gun out there.

Single stack and absolutely safe loaded, there is nothing that will eclipse a Heckler and Koch P-7 M-8. They hold 8+1 and are the safest handgun in the world with one in the chamber. The barrel is fixed in the receiver and has polygonal rifling, fluted chamber for the most accurate, yet reliable semi auto you could own.

They have a 4.13 inch barrel and yet the configuration gives it the feel and size of a compact. The action is the lowest in any handgun and reduces felt recoil better than anything else made. Ergonomically, this design can't be improved on, it has been around for decades and is still the least understood marvel in handguns.

These pictures show the P-7 for size in the hand, holster and concealed. This is actually an M-13 the M-8 is more compact in the single stack configuration, but the upper and internals are identical...

I can remember some old advertisements of the P7, if I recall they were adopted by some state police. Cool pistols.

Very nice, Shrap......that gun never crossed my mind, though one of my BIL's has one.

In the current H&K lineup, the USP Compact is not bad either, just pricey but is still a double stack.

MM

Full size, single stack, DA/SA 9mm: S&W Model 39-2. Fits most hands like a glove. Nobody has made a prettier pistol, either.

Well he'll. I might as well throw in my favorite.

I say Sig P210. Single stack full sized handgun. If you can't hit something with it, you better move to a 12ga.

Never mind. Just realized you said double action. That rules out the p210, but I will still vote for it.

The HK P7-M8 is a fantastic pistol, but it is not double-action. As Shrapnel knows (but, Wild Bill, you may not), it is a "squeeze-cocking" single-action. Truly unique design.

Missed the DA spec on the OP. The P7 would still fit most of the requirements.

Seems that if a person couldn't master a Glock 19's trigger, they're going to have seizure-proportion-fits trying to shoot any da/sa mechanism. For a relative tyro to go from the least complex to the most complex seems counter-intuitive somehow--------------of course, I could be wrong.

You are exactly correct. It takes twice as much ammo (or more) to achieve the same level of proficiency with a Beretta 92F compared to a Glock.

Unless memory fails me, the PSP had the European mag release (alla P-38) and the designation changed to P7 when they went to a "standard" side-button mag release (alla 1911/Hi-Power)----but I'm not sure about that.

I do remember that they started showing up in America in 1980 because I got the very first one brought into the Kansas City market and it was designated PSP and had the European release. I wanted one because Ken Hackathorn was singing their praises----when I got mine, he told me to be very careful as they had had NUMEROUS ND's while reholstering the guns. The PSP's trigger was wide, in fact not significantly more narrow (narrower?) than the trigger guard and if you didn't consciously release your grip and decock the gun prior to reholstering, it was possible for the trigger to rub on the interior leather of the holster resulting in an ND. According to Ken, there were more than a couple of "blood stripes" earned by early PSP users---plus the bottom mag latch would and could be disengaged by rubbing against the seat of an automobile while holstered----IIRC there was a police shooting where the mag fell out of the pistol when drawn due to the seat-rub disengagement.

The other issue with the design was that the gas retardation system made the trigger extremely hot if repeated rapid fire was practiced. In those relatively early IPSC days, you could practice about three El Presidente's back to back before the trigger was too hot to shoot comfortably.

I'm guessing that with the side button mag release and training to decock prior to reholstering, it would make a dandy carry gun.

Nothing could be safer and easier to use than the Sig P225. I have one that is like new (not for sale) and it works every time. The hammer drop system can't be beat for safe handling and the trigger pull in SA mode is heavy enough that the chances of an accidental discharge is very slim. I think it holds eight in the mag and is very safe to carry with one chambered.

They can be found in the $400.00-450.00 price range.

Ever notice that we have different stock designs? Different legths of pull? Different this or that, on and on?

Go figure, we are not all clones.

Glocks do not fit everyone. Sacrelidge I know.

Nomex on, flames away.

There's gotta be something wrong with you if a Glock don't fit ya.

Other than not being stainless, this fits the bill quite well. However, as Greg pointed out, if a G19 is too much, I can't see a P6 being more user friendly.

And as someone else said, some of the questions posed on this forum scare the beejeezus out of me!

Pete

As great of a pistol that a Glock is, their ergonomics just kinda suck. It's gotten better, but they still remain awfully blocky in the grip area. And their insistence on using synthetic magazines means their grip circumference will always be larger than guns with steel magazines. 9 & 40 Glock's fit my hands just fine but the large frame guns are downright chunky. For any caliber, the corresponding XD or M&P will feel much better in the hand.

But understand Glock is first and foremost a pistol designed for military use, so the synthetic magazines are there so replacements are cheap, and so corrosion is never an issue.

One of the finest pistols S&W ever made! Another single colum DA 3rd gen was the 908, which was a bargain gun where they skipped one milling cut and installed S&W sights instead of Novak's. Great gun, but not always the easiest to find. The Sigma took over as the cheap gun and the 908 & 910 went away.

glocks don't fit people, you fit the glock. noone ever pics one up and says wow this feels great. instead you adapt to them. The fat grip is one of the secrets of the design IMO this makes the gun softer shooting.

That's hilarious.



Travis

To you...


Travis

Glocks suck when I pick them up. They do not fit my hand.

'Nother vote here for the Browning BDA. One sweet shooting pistol.

Yep...

But it's all relative. I'm not saying they're not usable, they're just fine. I'm just saying that in comparison to other Tupperware pistols, they take a back seat to the others in the ergonomics department. I've carried Glock's before and had no problems.

I can't straddle the 10mm Glocker. Think my fingers have became shorter over the years.

This shoukd work for your "flash and fear" factor

]

No, you're saying they take a back seat to you. Many shooters prefer them.


Travis

P2000 is no slouch either.


Travis

P2000 is very nice........

MM

Whatever...I really don't know anyone who actually thinks the Glock's feel better in their hand over a M&P; maybe you do. Most choose Glock's because they're good pistols that are far more proven than the M&P or XD. But I've yet to meet anyone who chose the Glock for it's superior ergonomics...but clearly you have.

You should get out more.


Travis

I bought a squeezeCOCKER as well because shrapnel won't let me in his truck unless I carry certain firearms.

The things are ridiculously accurate and a joy to carry, but squeezing the cock is taking some time to get used to. Amazingly...


Travis

I have great confidence in your ability to get used to squeezing the cock............

MM

So Shrapnel insists you squeeze the cock when riding in his truck?

Yes.

Wait...

Wait...


Travis

I like the feel of the Kahr line of pistols in 9mm. From very small (PM9) to small (P9 or T9), they are single stack and quite thin.

You should be in marketing.

Wow, this pistol feels terrible in my hand.
-No, that's what's makes it so great. It feels bad and you have to get used to it.

Only the 3 & 4 digit S&W's (i.e., 459, 3913) have firing pin safeties that prevent the pistol from firing unless the trigger is pulled all the way to the rear. Glock, Colt Series 80 and others use the same concept. The earlier S&W autos (such as the 39-2, 59) do not have this feature, which may cause the pistol to unintentionally fire if dropped or struck with sufficient force to override the firing pin spring, even if the manual thumb safety is engaged. I know of one instance where this has occurred resulting in a death.

The rest of us should all be spanked for missing this obvious suggestion.

Agreed, but in my house, that's a bedside gun in .40. I prefer smaller/slimmer stuff for every day carry, but I'm in Texas where hot weather prevails.

Sorry, but I'm with Kevin on this. Glocks always felt like a brick in my hand compared to, say, the M&P, which generally gets rave reviews for ergos.

I see what you mean, get a load of these guns...

I've found that if you ask a whole lot of shooters what "fits" their hand, you get a whole lot of answers.

I've also found most shooters that can shoot don't give a schit what it is and just hit stuff.



Travis

It does seem to be a hit with the ladies...

Found another.

There ya go.

Get a Glock, learn to shoot the goddamm thing, and get on with life.

Now on that we can agree.

But there are some trends you notice, and I notice that there are some guns that fits more people's hands than others. That was the point I was making. I wasn't saying the Glock wasn't ergonomic, just stating it wasn't it's strong point. But if I said the sky was blue, you'd say it was something else; 'cause you generally think I'm FOS.

I've had no problems handling Glocks, since day 1.

They fit my hand & point just fine, same for my son.

Wife has a 4" M&P & both myself & my son prefer the Glocks to the M&P, not that the M&P feels bad.

But neither feel as good as a 1911.

MM

I like the feel of the G19, and the 17 feels pretty good. I think the M&P's ergonomics are outstanding. I think the 1911 is better yet, and a Hi POwer with Spegel grips beats the hell out of everything. But that's just me.

I keep threatening to get a Glock 19; one day I may follow through with that threat.

You make yourself FOS when you try and explain what is and is not ergonomic.

The angle on a Glock handle works very well for a lot of shooters.



Travis

As well as approximately a billion other shooters.


Travis

You seem to have some issues with reading comprehension because I never ONCE said the Glock wasn't ergonomic, nor have I mentioned the grip angle.

What I said was their ergonimics suck...it was implied that they suck in comparison to their direct competitors. And it was also implied that it was my OPINION.

Laughin'...

Get out and shoot more and worry about designs less. The nuances between todays proven pistols are just that. Nuances.


Travis

Well hell, ain't that what we're all here for? A bunch of equipment junkies trying to act as if there's a meaningful difference between things like a .30-06 and a .270, etc.

I'm just talking about the nuances...whether they actually MEAN anything is something completely different. Hell, if we only talked about the things that were meaningful, there'd be very little conversation at the campfire.

I'm comfortable with pretty much any handgun I put in my hands and I'm completely confident. But my observation is that people tend to get very personal about their guns and they have to be just so. You and I aren't really that way, but most who are "into" guns tend to be. So I mention the nuances that I think are relevant to the conversation.

But yeah you're right. When it comes right down to it, for guys who actually know how to shoot, and don't try to find a hardware solution to a software problem, the comments I made are completely irrelevant.

Happy New Year guys........

Nuances are not relevant when you have a new or less experienced shooter. Which the OP is.

Pick.

Buy.

Shoot.


Travis

Guess that depends on what your definition of fit is. Glocks fit me but don't point well for me. Their grip angle just doesn't work for me. I am sure that if I went out and put a bunch of rounds downrange, I could adjust. I just know when I draw and point my P7 or USPc, the grip angle works. Glocks, not so much. Hasn't kept me from owning a few Glocks though as I have a great deal of respect for them as a reliable tool.

I got no respect for anything made by Block...

I understand why they're made the way they are but there are simply better choices for aboot any porpoise...

with the notable exception of keeping .gov bean counters and attorneys happy.

That's the great thing about this place, everyone has their own opinion.

As far as my experience, there is a great purpose served by the Glock pistol. It is a tremendous tool for those who need a sidearm but aren't interested in learning a complex manual of arms. High capacity and dang reliable. Just like so many cameras are moving to point and shoot, the Glock is no different. For a vast number of people who want to have a sidearm that all they have to do is point and shoot, what's not to like about Glock?

WWM70, that's news to me. Never saw any S&W's autos or older 1911's that went off if dropped. I've a fair number so done, BTW. The only exception would be a 1911 that was chamber loaded and it's hammer set on the safety notch.
Trying to hit them hard enough on the hammer, when all the way down or at full cock would take a heavy blow.
The so called "safe" Glocks, on the other hand, have had lots of AD's when their owners tried to holster them.... The state of Kalifornia had to stop testing Glock pistols for safety at one time because the police issued Glock models couldn't pass their requirements. I don't know what ever became of that. But the state's police agencies felt the state was making it easy for people to sue them for carrying unsafe pistols. E