BUYER BEWARE!!!!!!!!!
This story is from my 100% experience that I am dealing with right now. I would not trust Montana Rifle Company to put air in my bicycle tire, nevermind buy and action or rifle from them. My story started about 10 months ago when I bought a stainless steel long action, left hand, I wanted to build a 7mm Rem Mag, after coming back from Africa I decided I wanted a 375 H&H instead. I contacted my custom gunsmith and told him to please return the original action to MRC for another one that could be chambered for a 375 H&H. I was told all they had to do at MRC was change out parts. They sent the new action out to my gunsmith and they billed me for another action even though they had already received the original action back. I had to call them to ask why I was billed twice when they already had the action in their shop. They said sorry we will take care of it.( 30 days later they sure did) that is the start of my horror!
As time is going on I called and ordered a 270 win. Summit rifle that would be completed from them for a quoted price of ($1699). I have receipts to prove it all. As I was making payments on the rifle someone at MRC changed the price to $1899. When I called to ask what was going on noone knew who changed anything. After speaking with previous owner several times the person in their billing department told me that he(the former owner) would personally put in the $200 difference ( I have papers to prove that also) That is now strike two.
Fast forward 10 months and my rifle is finally complete and has been shipped to me with MRC left hand 1999 action, in 375 H&H, with a Lilja ss #5 contour, recessed target crown, teflon coated and stocked in a very well named stock maker ( will leave names out) First day at the range the gun does not feed or eject correctly. I called custom gun maker and MRC and I am told to send rifle back to MRC to find out that the wrong follower is in the rifle. Rifle is shipped back to me and I go to the range again and the same problem arises. I call custom gun smith and send it to him. He polished ejector blade, ejector blade needed to be polished. Sends gun back again. Take it to the range the following Sunday and the gun does the same thing. Ejector blade is destroyed,bent beyond belief. I send it back to my custom gun maker again and he said that the ejector was longer, wider and thicker than what the two MRC long actions he has in his shop now. Once again the wrong piece. Now I call MRC to cancel my Summit rifle in 270 because of the problems I am having with this action. I am LIVID! I was told they (MRC) do returns once a month.
I waited 30days for my refund and still nothing. I had gotten on the phone with the owner of the company and was told there is no money in the account for a refund can I pay you a little at a time over the next few weeks.I was also begged to please not cancel my order and give MRC another chance and told when I returned the original action they never switched out the parts. Follower, spring, bolt stop, and bolt ring. He did not want to get into why they did not change it. That is definitely strike 3 and I am down for the count. So now I had to get the Credit card company involved and contact the Better Business Bureau.
I am now waiting for my 375 to come back from the custom gun maker(again!)and hopefully for the last time. I told him to change every last piece out with m70 parts. I would NEVER DO BUSINESS with their(MRC) company again. My personal opinion...It's JUNK! Please beware. Think two or three times before you decide to buy. Their quality control is horrendous.

I've read others opinions that are sure different than yours, though I'm not calling you a liar and don't doubt your experience. To bad you experienced it. Hope all turns out ok.

I'd take up bow hunting if the only way I could get a rifle is to buy one from MRC. Heard ownership has changed and some the idiots I dealt with are gone, but there are FAR to many other rifles out there to even entertain it.

Had a similar problem with MRC in that they unilaterally increased the price of a barreled action over what had been agreed on, and charged my credit card for the higher amount.

Got my credit card company involved, and MRC told a string of lies to justify the increase. Fortunately, I had documentation that refuted their lies, and the credit card company supported my position.

The bad actor involved was the son of Brian(does that make him an SOB?) who now runs the action side of the house.

So when it comes to MRC, it looks like 7remmag and I have both been there, and done that. Unfortunately, so have a lot of others.

Concerning MRC, be afraid, be very afraid.

Steve

With out getting into the details, I will never consider doing business with MRC again.

Where were all of these threads before I bought my 264WM? You folks are making me afraid to shoot it and just list it on Gunbroker.

I hope my experience is better is all I can say. I do know that once I got the correct follower and mag box the rifle feeds like butter.

I guess we'll see.

Robert

Too bad. Their business concept was an intriguing one. I considered buying a barreled action from them. No longer.

Bruzer,
You should have searched here on the Campfire. MRC seems to be very hit or miss, not much in the middle. I had a similiar experince with them. I was finally thinking of giving them another chance because I want a CRF rifle. But I'll take this as a sign and stay away.

7Mag. I live in Kalispell MT, and I didn't even know there was a change of ownership... Who bought it? I'm assuming Brian is gone? I know his son is still there... I saw him and their gunsmith with 4-5 "returns" at the range 3 weeks ago. Those actions have come a long way in the time they were introduced. IMO, they could come quite a ways furhter (as I said on the other post)

Brian, I refuse to do business with. I would put the quality of his barrels below Douglass on my "list" His son is a little hot tempered, but I always figured that a lot of that came from doing business with his old man. On some level, I hoped that he expected more out of those actions since he took that end of the shop over.

The one thing I'll never forget was when I was in Brians shop (in back of the old Lasalle Tool building on HWY 2) when he told another customer in the shop..... "Hell, I taught Dan Lilja everything he knows..." I really wanted to call bullshit right then and there.

Then there's the guys over at McGowan rifle barrel. I'm within inches of ordering a 6.5 barrel from them, just because they're local and can have the barrel done in 3-4 weeks. I want to give them a try, I really do. But they learned how to make barrels from Brian. I guess, if they were paying attention, they know what NOT to do. So I'm waiting patiently to hear what others have to say about them before I pony up my money. (sorry for the hi-jack)

7mmRem,

Sorry for your experience but don't you think a major part of the problem is your custom gunsmith? If he didn't know that the wrong parts were in your action, what the heck was he doing making custom rifles? What kind of custom gunmaker does not test fire his work especially in a DGR - calibre? I'd stay right away from him.

Whilst not the greatest, I have 2 MRC actions from their Charter Special days & they are certainly functional and one in particular shoots rather well. They need finishing but are otherwise sound and they did try to accomodate your changes of mind. I don't know why you are upset at MRC but not your gunsmith. He's the "REAL" turkey!

Dan - totally agree with you on the MRC barrels. Mine was supposed to be hand lapped, match grade. It's a POS. It may have been pointed at a lap but none ever went through the barrel. Verified with a bore scope. Never again.

I have not heard that MRC are in trouble & I hope they are OK. They provide a good alternative for the custom gun trade.

Regards
JohnT

As far as I know it is nothing more than a magazine swap. Your "custom sunsmith" couldn't handle that?



Your "custom gun maker" never test fired it, or checked it for function??



Again, you have the "custom gun smith" work on it, and he sends you back a rifle that he obviously STILL is not function checking. Not only does he not bother to check his own work before sending it back, he doesn't even know which parts are "wrong".



If it were me, yep, it WOULD be the last time this so-called "custom gun maker" ever touched any rifle of mine.



Sounds like you are mixing up MRC with your hack of a gunsmith.

How many times are you going to send something to a "custom gun maker", only to have him tell you that he fixed it, but obviously is not checking anything? How much have you paid this joker? HIS quality control is non-existent.

Nope, your rant here is misdirected. I'd be addressing this with the guy that kept telling you he fixed it, yet kept returning faulty work, not the maker. Then I'd be finding a new gunsmith.

My thoughts exactly.

The owner of MRC is Brian Sipes son Jeff. The other owner used to be Devin Antonovich who is no longer with the company.
I posted this letter for others to use as a tool and I am glad I am getting the responses that I am getting because now I know for sure that I am not the only one who is experiencing this. Everyone that has a negative post is agreeing with me that the action does not feed or extract correctly. As a right handed shooter there should be no reason for anyone to look any further than a model 70 Ruger or Dakota to start their process of building a custom rifle. As for myself, a left handed shooter, we are painted into a very small corner of options to use for a Mauser 98 style action without breaking the bank and keeping it as a working mans rifle. But it is the Devil in disguise. My personal suggestion to anyone save your money, buy a Dakota action or hunt around for a used model 70 ( because it just works)
As of today I am still waiting for my refund on my cancelled order. It is of course over 30days. Is this the kind of company you would want to be dealing with?
This is not an angry post. This is a post to keep others from getting into my situation. Trust me you don't need the headache.
For the person who just bought the MRC from Guns America I hope you got a good one. I know not all of them cannot be bad but so many people have the same opinion I do, they don't function correctly.

7RM,

I bought the rifle here and not on Gunsamerica.....

As others have stated it sounds as if your problem is with the gunsmith and a financial transaction that hasn't been resolved to your liking rather than a faulty or poorly designed action.

I can assure you that my MRC feeds as well or better than my other rifles now that the correct items are in place.......Again an issue created by a gunsmith and not MRC.

Good luck resolving your situation.

Robert

What you really mean is that you are using us as a "tool" to speed up your refund by disparaging MRC. Great one!!! If you want to be treated fairly the place to start is with you treating others fairly.

Actually, one might say "You got exactly what you deserved!"

Regards
JohnT

I have heard so many bad things about this outfit I would never consider going there for anything and I live in Kalispell 10 min away from them...It's not just 1 or 2 complaints it's a pile of them..

Yeah, I'd never go the MRC route either. I bought a barrel from them and it was a nice one, but they can keep the cast actions.

I think the gunsmith is critical to good results with a MRC action or barreled action.

I have a custom rifle from Serengeti Arms on that uses a MRC barreled action. It will shot three different factory loads into clusters that hover around half an inch at 100 yards.It feeds perfectly,even upsidedown or sideways and it is a 270WSM.

Mule Deer has one a lot like it in 7x57,he now hunts with it more than any other rifle he owns from what I understand.

Hill Country Rifles offers synthetic stocked rifles on MRC barreled actions that are fine guns too.

If I were going to do a custom on a MRC action,it would be with one of these two firms,they keep actions in stock and will stand behind what they sell. Both of them have for me.

I did not deal directly with MRC,but if you do buisness with Hill Country or Serengeti,I think you will be delighted. I sure was.

i take it you had the wrong follower as well?

yes the b/s gets real thick over there!!!

maybe you like having your billing amounts changed.or like having companys tell you there is not enough money in their account for a return.Maybe you think thats good business.I did not know you worked at mrc and could help with the return(moron)

Woooo, I think you stepped in it there young fella.

Give me [bleep] too dudes, because I will happily share my negative experiences with MRC if you would like.

Step on up, I can handle anything the masses throw at me.

I have shot exactly one MRC rifle, but it was put together by Hill Country Rifles in Texas and it is a nice gun, shoots and handles well, but maybe they had taken some of the burrs off of things before my buddy bought the finished product.

This is the email I received:
the one from your rifle is bent drastically! Because of this, the "engagement" of the ejector on the case head is reduced from approximately .218" to .033". What this means is the ejector is barely sticking out from the bolt face (.033") when the bolt is in it's rearward most position. Of course, if the bolt is pulled rearward hard, this small engagement is sufficient to eject a case. However, it certainly isn't the .218" engagement of the original, and will never eject the cases like they should be.

Also, the bend caused the ejector to be in hard contact with the bolt body at all times, and not just from the spring tension. This is what caused the drag marks on the bolt, as well as the "sticking" of the bolt when trying to close it. In picture #2 you can see the tip of the ejector has been rolled over because of this.
the Teflon coating was marred because of dragging on the trigger sear pin. I originally thought the pin was too long, and it actually was, but this ejector is also .004" wider (thicker) than the others I have, which would be just enough to cause the drag we experienced earlier.

Steven, I have been building rifles all my life. I have built THOUSANDS of rifles on Winchester model 70 actions and have NEVER seen this. The only thing that contacts the ejector are the cases when they are being ejected. The force of the cases hitting the front of the ejector when you bring the bolt back is the only thing that can cause this. I know you have fed a LOT of rounds through this rifle, but I just can not fathom how or why this should happen.

In my opinion, this ejector is too soft. It should never bend. It is certainly different in design than the other two we have from Montana actions. This one appears to be a little longer (if you straightened it), and is certainly thicker.

Here is another email: DO YOU THINK ITS QUALITY CONTROL ISSUES ON MRC'S PART?

Jeff skirts around the issue of the blade being too soft. He is right about the hardness of the action and bolt, but the ejector blades are not hardened. Truth is, they probably use soft steel because it machines, or stamps easier. All I do know is that I can bend the three different ejector blades I have from their actions by hand, and I can't bend the Winchester model 70's. Certainly I have not done the design or engineering of these parts, that's not my job. It could well be that you don't need an ejector any more rigid than what theirs is. However, it seems Winchester thinks they should be.
Yes, I could have gone to Montana to get the replacement parts for this rifle. I am sure they would not cost you or I anything. However, every rifle I work on I pretend it is my own. Well, I think you know what I would do. Hell, right now I have 4 rifles in my shop built on Montana actions. One is my own .416!!! The other three are "spec" guns that are either finished or nearing completion. I guarantee these rifles will not be sold without me personally going through each and every one. I WILLreplace each ejector for sure. I will probably replace magazine boxes, springs and followers, maybe even bolt stops. What I find on your rifle will certainly influence what I do on the others. Certainly, the experience we have had with this rifle, and with the responses you have had from Montana, have helped make up my mind as to whether we use, sell, recommend, or even look at, another Montana action.

We need to look at this as a life lesson. I am just not sure why we need to go through so much grief to get so damn smart!

Steelhead,

Not giving you [bleep] but please post a link to your thread. As I've read many of your posts I'm sure that if a rifle company gave you a problem then you would have posted it here. I want to learn as much as I can before I pull the trigger on this thing.

Robert

It was many moons ago after when they were making their charter run. If you have read any of my posts you will have noticed I'm not quick to jump if a company makes right, which the majority do. This one didn't.

Thanks for the backup. Go ahead post it up.
Like I said many times let others not go through what we went through.

I don't understand your original post. Did you get the wrong follower from your gunsmith? If so that is the same answer I got from MRC when I had the wrong follower in my gun, coincidence? If that is not it I don't understand what you mean.

For the record, it weren't the product as much as it was the PEOPLE.

7RM,

I bought the rifle used from a member here. I got it home and tried to cycle rounds and they wouldn't cycle. I called MRC and Shane and Mike(Gunsmith) figured out that whoever built the rifle originally had ordered a 375H&H action and then installed a 264WM barrel...So the mag box,follower,bolt stop and extractor are all set up for a 375H&H....I ordered the 264WM box and follower first to see if it would feed and extract without sending in the bolt to have the extractor replaced.....Luckily it did and feeds and ejects smoothly.

This is a pic of the 375H&H Mag Box/Follower on the left and the new 264 set up on the right.



This is the bolt.....As you can see the bolt is for a 375H&H length but works for the 264WM. Jeff said that if I ever want to change the bolt stop and extractor out just to send it in. I may get it re-barreled into a 375 at some point so I'm trying to leave it as is and keep the 375 mag box and follower.

Steelhead,

Good to know. So far the people I've been dealing with have been great but I'm easy to get along with usually.

Robert

7mmrem Let's see:

YOU changed you mind and wanted a 375H&H action instead of 7mm Rem.
YOU changed you mind and cancelled your order on the 270 after you agreed to it

MRC try to accomodate you but stuff up. Not surprising as they are a very small company and if you are correct doing it tough. In all this tirade of yours not one criticism of your gunsmith. Yet he's done a thousand rifles and does not recognise the wrong follower? He does not test fire his completed work especially in a dangerous game calibre?

Like I said be fair.

You accuse me of being an employee of MRC - of which I'm not. It'd be interesting but the travel expenses from Australia would be a killer!

Now, what is your relationship with your gunsmith? Why don't you name him & shame him like you have with MRC. Any gunsmith worth his salt would examine the action you supplied & if its not up to scratch tell you so before he started work. Now if you really wanted to help people on this forum - you'd name him.

You tell us to buy Dakotas instead of an MRC? Huh, Dakotas cost a lot lot more do they not(if even available). Rather unrealistic comparison. Dakota have had a tough time financially-yet their product is high grade. I'm a RH shooter I have lots of options but my friend is a LH and if not for MRC there is not a lot of options for a CRF action for a custom at a reasonable price.

You seem a very vindictive type of person. If MRC go under its nothing to celebrate.

Hopefully, MRC will reply with their side of this story. Hopefully, you will get your money back from MRC. But at least have the guts to ask for your money back from your gunsmith too.

7remmag in your dealings it does not seem that you are a fair person. Like I said you got what you deserved.

Regards,
JohnT

I have one, a .284....it's pretty good now but took a lot of drama to get there. Being a lefty It seemed a viable option but I wouldnt want to deal with another one.

LC

It sounds like the original poster (and several others) have legitimate complaints. I can only relate my experience and I'm not dismissing or downplaying the experience of others.

I've had 2 MRC barreled actions. A stainless 30-06 and a stainless 375 Ruger. I only put a few rounds of light reloads down the 06, but it was very accurate with them. I got the itch for a Whelen so it's going through a rebarrel right now and some lightening as well. The 375 has been right around an inch with factory ammo....no reloads yet. Both feed and function fine. The actions are heavy and a little rough, but nothing that has caused me any trouble.

The company was great to deal with for me. A little slow, but that's SOP for most any gunsmithing. No problems but my orders were very basic....not to much to screw up.

It seems like a previous poster said, it's either all good or all bad with them. I'm happy with the work I recieved from them and have no complaints, but if I had been in the shoes of other posters here I doubt I would have been. They do make good ones....but it sounds like it can be a gamble.

JCM

7RM,

Do you think it's possible that your original action was used to build a 375H&H? That would explain your feeding issues. Why didn't your gunsmith notice the follower issue prior to sending you the rifle? Twice? I really don't understand that....I don't use World Renowned gunsmiths but even the guys I use would recognize and correct that issue before I received my rifle.

OK....Being a new owner of one of these actions this is what I've learned from this thread.

1) Customer Service from MRC has been lacking in the past.
2) Gunsmith's aren't familiar with the actions so WE have had to
live through their learning curve.
3) Once the bugs are worked out the owners seem to be satisfied.
4) Some folks have an axe to grind.
5) The customer service at MRC is improving based on my experience.

Robert

Thanks for posting those pictures. Did you find out who actually built the rifle? was it MRC or the guy you bought it from Gun smith?
The magazine box on the left is what I have now in my 375 the follower on the right is what I have now. The follower on your left looked nothing like the original one i got from MRC which they told me was wrong.

Yeah I changed my mind, what is your point?
I only cancelled my order after I got the run around with changing prices on item and the first action giving me an "S" load of problems. You bet your ass I cancelled the order.

Let's be fair. I guess you didn't understand that it was a sarcastic remark that you work at MRC.

7RM,

The box and follower on the left are correct for a 375H&H so what you see in the pic is what you want for your rifle. See the narrow channel on the left follower.....I loaded a 375 in this rifle box and follower and everything seemed fine.....I also had Jeff and Mike from MRC confirm through pics that this was for a 375.

Robert

Once again I guess you did not read the entire post. I did not only say Dakota's I also said Ruger and Winchester Model 70. All with " CRF " As for Dakota's it is as easy as picking up the phone and placing an order. Maybe that is hard for you to do down under. I also have a Dakota 76 that I had built from them when they were in bankruptcy. I put up serious money at that point and I didn't not only get a gun back i got a machine that works flawlessly.
What do you consider a resonable price? things that don't work or function correctly? If you are looking for a great little deal you should try a garage sale. You are still failing to remember when the gun went back to Montana the first time for the follower issue they didn't check anything. They just put a new follower in it and sent it right back out the door. The had it twice and the second time it was still wrong from MRC after speaking with Jeff ( which I have said before ) I was told that the wrong bolt stop, bolt ring, and spring were in that action. They never changed it when it got sent to them the first time.
Trust me I am not in the business of throwing away money.
Going back to Winchester or Ruger, you talk about price, between $500 - $800 for a Ruger or Winchester. Not much more than an MRC action and they just work.
You also say I am a vindictive person? In the states here we have a saying you "F*** with the bull you get the horns."

My thoughts as well.

Is there anyway you can find out who barreled up the action on your rifle? Because to me two different gun smiths across the country put in the wrong magazine box, spring and follower? too coincidental.
SO as far as your pics go MRC left the wrong parts in again. They didn't correct it the first time or second time. How many chances are they supposed to get? I think I was more than fair.

7RM,

The gentleman that I bought the rifle from was at least the 2nd owner. I know who he bought the rifle from and will try to determine who originally built the rifle. Also keep in mind that my bolt stop and extractor are also for a 375H&H so this action was originally sold as a 375 length action. It's not a case of simply placing the incorrect parts in the mag well.

One thing to note......I forgot in my earlier post but Mike stated that the followers had been re-designed...So the fact that your new follower looks like mine (the new 264WM) may be a good thing. Is the new follower as long as the mag box? If so, it might well be correct. If it doesn't work then let me know and I will send you my 375H&H to try......If it works you can keep it.

Robert

I can sympathize with the original poster because anyone who has spent the time and money messing around with the custom guntrade will eventually run into this sort of thing, in one way or another.

First and foremost,the fact that he "changed his mind" in going from a 7 RM to 375 H&H has absolutely NOTHING to do with the entire issue;it is, as we say in the law a "red herring",or an issue the other side to an argument tries to make important but which is, in fact, immaterial.This is akin to blaming victims for the "crime" imposed on them. The man paid for a 375;he should get what he paid for.To suggest otherwise is absurd.

Also, I don't blame him for cancelling the 270 order;after seeing how poorly the 375 was working,a person would be crazy to order another rifle built on the same action.That's like saying "....Hit me again..." I give custom makers one crack;if they don't get it right the first time, I never use them again.

Second,some "blame" should be attributed to the custom smith for not making certain that the rifle functions;OTOH,it is not the custom smiths job to serve as a QC man for Montana.It is Montana's job to see that the parts they provide for the Montana action are correct,fit the action properly,and perform their intended function.It is also not the custom smiths job to see to it that Montana provideed the right parts for the action,and that those parts "work" as intended.If Montana advertises and peddles a CRF then they should "work" when they leave the factory.If they do not,then Montana is selling an action that is not "fit" for a particular purpose and fails to meet commonly accepted legal standards of warranty as recognized in numerous jurisdictions. If they(Montana) are not paying attention to this, it is their fault,and should not be placed on the custom smith.

To suggest that the custom smith is entirely to blame, and that Montana is somehow exonerated for providing incorrect or ill-fitting parts that are soft,non-functional,and of improper design for the intended caliber,is the most convoluted thought process I have read on this thread so far.

All of the above having been said the REALITY is that a Montana action requires "tweaking" because as they come from Montana they are not quite up to par.You could say this for a M70 Classic,for example, as well,since it's possible to spend a tidy chunk of cash to get Mark Penrod or D'Arcy Echols to make them "right",so Montana's are not unique in this regard.One of the smiths I do business with has built quite a few rifles on Montana's, and he says they must be gone over,squared up,and checked for functioning.He routinely replaces the firing pin spring in them,telling me that the factory version is a bit "weak",as one example.The Montana actions on the Serengeti rifles owned by Britt and Mule Deer are not "factory original",either,as I have read that Serengeti employs a guy full time to make the Montana actions "right".This is figured in the cost of a Serengeti which I understand has a base price of about $5000(?).So, you can end up with a good rifle on a Montana action,but they do have to be gone over.

I have seen the Montana barrels chucked up in a lathe,and compared to a Kreiger.You could not run fast enough to give me a Montana barrel.I don't care how yours may shoot;I would not waste the time and money having one installed.It costs the same in time and labor to have a Kreiger or Hart installed as it does a Montana;I'd just as soon stick with the barrel having a great reputation for accuracy.

It is pretty apparent that the original poster took a hosing on this one,notwithstanding some of the ridiculous arguments I have seen posted here to the effect that he is somehow to "blame"for paying his money and failing to get a perfectly functional rifle.

No truer words have been said. Have experienced it myself and it is never fun when it happens to you.



This argument of yours I cannot understand? So if you agree to buy a Ford V6 car and park it in a garage so it is not used and 10 months later after an overseas trip change your mind and think you need more power and want a Ford V8. That's OK and the supplier should go ahead and replace the engine for nothing. That is your logic? I think some credit should be given to MRC for agreeing to help 7mmrem. It's unfortunate that it did not work out but then go back to your first point and remind yourself what you have let yourself in for.



In general I agree with you BobinNH. However, it is absolutely the responsibility of the gunsmith to protect his client 7mmrem. What if the action had faults that could have caused injury to the client? It is irresponsible not to at least do some check BEFORE he started work & report to his client any defects found. The fact that it was in a calibre that would indicate possible use as a DGR makes it even more irresponsible on the gunsmith's part not to check function.



Please point to where in my post(s) I suggested the custom smith is entirely to blame. My point to 7mmrem has been above all to be fair. Nowhere has 7mmrem acknowledged that his smith could be at fault. So with the heading on his post of "Buyer Beware" to be fair 7mmrem should name & shame his custom smith as well. As you have said he is partly to blame but of course not entirely.



There was plenty of information on this site from years ago & from Jack Belk on Accurate Reloading that the MRC action was wonderful in concept but was short changed in the manufacturing. However, it is acknowledged that with a competent gunsmith it can be made into the basis of a fine custom gun. What's the cost of an MRC action $450-$500 these days? In most cases given a competent smith they can be made to work and be functional. Be realistic and honest. Its the low price that sucks us in. It ain't going to be a Dakota, nor an Empire straight off the production line.



I agree with you but not because I saw it chucked up in a lathe but because I saw the bore with a Hawkeye borescope. Bullshit it was hand lapped! Based on my personal experience I would never use their barrels again but plenty here are very happy with theirs including our Mule Deer. Mine was a CM barrel if that made any difference but really its should not. Those that are happy with their barrels appear to have specified stainless. But to me not worth the risk.



Whether the original poster is to "blame" is not the issue. I believe if you want to be treated fairly then you should treat others the same way. I don't believe that has happened in this case. I don't believe that he has or wants to acknowledge that his changes of mind could have caused some administrative headaces at MRC. If he has been charged 2x for the one action and I presume the only way they can charge 2x without his consent is by credit card. Right? Call the credit card company & refute the charge. Simple. Why not do that instead of spitting the dummy on this forum.

What he said about using this post as a "tool" just sounds suspicious to me. The feed issues could be fixed by any competent gunsmith. The defective part could have been swapped. And he could have stopped getting charged 2x by calling his credit card company. Perhaps there is a hidden agenda here?

Regards
JohnT

I've got a 325WSM on a MRC action,built by Randy Selby and mine is a problem free and a very RELIABLE and a whole bunch of fun to shoot.200gr. Accubonds make critters die very fast.

Cars? Engines? Unless I missed something in the story, he was wanting to build a gun. But in using your references it would be more like wanting to build a custom car and ordering a crate V6 engine for it. After it arrives, you decide you need a V8 and make the contact to return the smaller engine. And who said anything about wanting it free? The problem is they put V6 pistons in his V8 and didn't have sense enough to figure out what was wrong.

To me it isn't about the product, its the service. Mistakes happen, it's when I get grief from the people and have to fight to get thing 'fixed' or money back that I have a problem.

7remmag
Sorry to hear of your troubles.

My .375 Weatherby Montana barreled action had feeding problems after being finished. I took it to another gunsmith who replaced the magazine spring with one from Brownells and also windowed the magazine box. This fixed the problem and I am happy now. I did not consider this a big deal.

I also had a Williams extractor installed, and 8/40 scope mount screws when it was built.

JohnT: Had I known my post would inspire you so much,I likely would not have commented at all. I did not direct my comments to you,but perhaps you felt that need to respond for reasons I do not understand.

That said,your analogy of exchanging a truck and comparing it to exchanging a rifle action,is a poor one.What,precisely, is the nexus between his decision to exchange the first action,and the faulty action he later received. By your logic, it can be said that if a customer returns an item,the company is perfectly justified in replacing it with something that does not work...properly..and the faulty item is that darned customers'fault for returning it in the first place I really have no idea what the consumer laws are "Down Under",but I can assure you, that dog does hunt "here" I'm afraid that I do not understand where you are coming from here;nor ,frankly,am I interested in finding out..

Second, I have had enough top-end custom rifles built by "known" makers to understand fully what is,and is not,expected of them.Generally I have been happy,but there have been issues.

Third,I don't know who Jack Belk is, nor do I care since I do not need him to tell me about Montana actions,or any others for that matter.

If there was a safety issue,and someone got hurt,they'd all be sued.Who would bear the brunt of liability depends entirely upon the "facts" of the case.

What I am trying desperately to understand, is, what part of "IT DID NOT WORK" is it that you don't understand? I agree the gunsmith SHOULD have checked function.OTOH the damn things should WORK and have the CORRECT parts when it leaves Montana.This is so basic and fundamental to me that I can't understand any contrary view.

But then again a lot of gun building today is "form" over "substance",a lot of "sizzle" but no "steak".I will bet that at LEAST 50% of the rifles "custom built" today are not tested reliably for function before they leave the maker.So you and I are in agreement there.

Lastly(thank God)I doubt there is an "agenda"; the guy wanted to build a rifle that WORKED.He PAID for it.He depended on two entities,Montana and the custom maker, to deliver a properly functioning rifle. He DID NOT get it.Agenda? You bet there's an AGENDA.Fix the damn thing and make it RIGHT.

Personally, I'd tear the rifle apart for salvage,start all over again with a GOOD action,and chalk it up to experience.I would not care who fixed it at this point; I would never trust the thing.And yes I have done that when what I paid good money for was a POS.

Apparently,today,the custom gun industry has deteriorated to the point where even the expenditure of $3-4k does assure reliable function.

I'll just toss in my experience. I have an MRC 99 short action for my .257 Bob attached to a Lilja #2. Order it in March IIRC with an estimated delivery in Sept. Called in Sept and they said 30 more days. Called in 30 more days and they asked if I was OK with the Moly action and a stainless bolt or it would be another 90 days so I said fine. Action is pretty good, very smooth and solid and the trigger is a nice 3lbs out of the box but I still don't have it feeding right. Usually the first three are fine but the last one is the problem. I'll send it to the smith after deer season and see what he can do.

All in all I like it and I enjoyed building my first custom but if you're taking something like an essentially production action and can't deliver it in seven months exactly as order you're not much of a company. If I had to do it again I'd buy a Kimber Montana in .257.

I have a MCR 1999 action with one of their barrels in a very nice Serengeti stock. From the get go this rig was a big disappointment. 2" groups, this in a .257R This project was not cheap. I am not happy. I thought to have it rebarrelled. Took the rifle to a local gunsmith who said the action had so much "slop" in the way the bolt locked up in the reciever that he didn't want to take responsibility for good results. I sent the action back to MCR who promply returned the action saying there was nothing wrong with it. I finally got my smith convinced to go ahead with the rebarrel job. but he is not happy about it. After the rebarrel job I'll have close to $3500 in this project. Stay tuned, I may have a .257 for sale cheap.

I bought my LH CM short action (358) through the Charter Issue program many years ago. Back then you could make-up your own SN, I chose my initials and purchase year. I had them polish the action inside and out, square it, attach one of their barrels, lapped it and cut in a recess crown. The action is tighter and smoother than the Model 70 I have. Before they blued it they sent it across town for Serengetti to stock it and glass bed it, then after that was done, Serengetti sent it back to MRC for the final matte blue job. My gun is excellent in fit and finish, shoots MOA with my handloads and feeds and ejects with out a problem. One of the nicest rifles in my safe.
Both companies kept me informed as to the progress and even sent pic's during the build job.
Sorry to hear about the problems others are having with MRC, but I can only tell you about the good service and great rifle I got from them.

Thanks alot I appreciate it. I will keep you posted if needed.
thanks for the help

That's 100% correct. To me it looks like John T from down under likes to just pick and choose what he would like to comment about and does not fully read anything.
Again to him I guess these are great business practices. Maybe in Australia but not here.

Apparently we "mutually" inspire each other.



Not exchange truck. Just change engine. He wanted bits of the internal changed. (thought it was a pretty good analogy). After 10 months "down under" they would tell you to "F off you sheila" ("sheila" means girl) . Look I know USA is the ultimate land for customer service. But here if you just change your mind forget it. For all we know the 1st action may have been OK.




Thanks for sharing.



Jack was a very active member of the American Custom Gunmakers Guild did very nice work who I believe fell on hard times. He was the presenter of their video on custom guns. He did all of us a great service by throughly examining the MRC1999 and giving us a detailed account of the good, the bad and the ugly. I am obviously not as knowlegeable as you as I like to learn from those that know more than me and their actual experiences. BTW BobinNH how many MRC actions do you own or have owned? Have you dealt with MRC personally?



Again thanks for sharing.



The part where "it did not work" could be changed to "it can be fixed" without a lot of trouble.



I wouldn't know. But its pretty simple to ask them or tell them that you want it tested. But I also recognise that I am part of the problem. Often we want something done quickly or less expensively than the gunsmith we know we should use. Most times its OK but sometimes it bites us in the bum! 7mmrem should consider bum duly bitten.



Don't say that I was enjoying our exchange of ideas . Which is precisely what he should do and not spit the dummy. 7mmrem did say he had a Dakota built so he probably wanted a rifle like a Dakota but for substantially cheaper. Fair enough too why not. There are rare exceptions but most times you get what you pay for. He may have to pay a bit more but I am sure his MRC will be quite serviceable once fixed by a good gunsmith.




Everyone is different but I don't believe that its a big deal to fix and maybe he should get a second opinion from another gunsmith.



Both you and I look at this from the point of view of the customer. But from the gunmaker side $3k definitely and maybe $4k is probably at the borderline of where you can make a living if nothing goes wrong! (And your customer does not change his mind - sorry I couldn't resist ) . Let's be realistic therefore that even at that price range we are taking a risk that things don't turn out the way we want. But with patience & perseverance we can get a good outcome.

Regards,
JohnT

John: The only thing I will say,is, I have as much personal experience with Montana actions as I want.This includes looking them over several times at my gunsmiths' shop,and shooting a friends 375 H&H,which BTW,works and shoots well,after it was "tweaked" and barreled by my smith.

After speaking with my gunsmith about them,and considering the over-all cost of a custom rifle;and hearing a few "horror stories" such as 7 Rem Mag experienced,I concluded long ago that I did not want one.

Montana's are,I understand, cast at the Ruger plant; I would rather have a Ruger Hawkeye than a Montana. At least I know the Hawkeye will work.

I'm unlikely to "change my mind" either;could result in getting a lousy action,and I would, of course,be to blame....

Well, I try my hardest not to respond to some of these but this one I think I have to.

For everyone who has had a problem in the past before I took over, I can't really do a whole lot about that. If I can make it up to people who have a bad experience I will.

Steelhead, you are an example of something that happened from someone who is no longer here and I have offered to make it up to you if you should ever look at us again.

If anyone else is in the same scenerio, all you would have had to do is call me and we could talk about it like men, and fix the issue, not get on a website and do this?

As far as the original poster, well Steve you just can't please everyone. But since you are so inclined to tell your side I think it is only fair that we tell ours?

There was an action ordered for a 7mm Rem Mag, that was shipped to a gunsmith. The rifle came back to us from you after it had gone to your gunsmith because as we were told there was an issue with your follower. The rifle came in and since we had just changed our follower design we put a new one in and sent it back. I was never told of any other issues other than it needed a different follower. Then we get an email about the ejector not working. When I recieved the pictures of the ejector there is NO DOUBT whatsoever about how it happened. Someone had taken the extractor, bolt stop and extractor ring off the bolt and then put the bolt back into the receiver. Then not understanding the functions of the action tried to pull the bolt out of the receiver. Well without the extractor ring on the bolt the ejector will pop up into the slot on the bolt, keeping the bolt from coming out of the receiver. The only way you can get that out is by pushing the ejctor down as you pull the bolt back. But without knowing this someone hammered it out which is exactly how the ejector got bent and looks. When I explained this, I was told about the feeding issues, which was the FIRST time that I had been told there was a problem with that. Then I was told that the order was supposed to have been changed to a 375 H & H, but NOWHERE is there any confirmation of that. There are NO notes, there is NOTHING on the order, No Fax, No email, NOTHING. So the action had been shipped to your gunsmith as a 7mm rem mag set up and it was built into a 375 H & H, well at this point I offered to change out the parts to make it work as a 375 H&H properly and was told no thanks, that you would rather do your smear campaign and call the BBB, and go through the extent that you have on here and other forums.

Well I can't do anything about your experience, it happened and I wish that it could have been taken care of differently. Would I still exchange the parts out, you bet, not a problem.

Well there is always two sides to story.

As to the gentleman who said he knows my dad and that my dad told him that he taught Dan Lilja everything he knows...? Are you kidding me? My dad and Dan are good friends and Dan has taught my dad a lot. You probably heard it the other way around and and mistook what he was saying or he misspoke what he meant or it was a joke of some sort. I think that if any of you called either of them they would tell you the same thing, they are friends and they help each other out when they need it. As are all the barrel manufacturers.
I'm not going to try and go into everything here, but please, if you have an issue call me up and we can talk about it. Some of the guys on here that have valid complaints have called me up and we dissused them and if we fixed them great if not we did what we could do to make it right. One thing my dad taught me was that sometimes you have to swallow your pride and understand that you don't know everything and mistakes happen, maybe you need to learn that? (oh and yes I can get a little hot-headed, but after losing my daughter this summer I have learned to look at priorities a little different, it really doesn't do me any good to get mad at people, things happen and you just have to live with it).

Well I hope I have explained some things here and I am always open to phone calls and even suggestions.
God bless.
Jeff

PS. I just spoke to your gunsmith (who is a good guy by the way) and he is on the same page as I am. So I think that a lot of this may be either fabricated or just trying to pit us against each other?

Jeff,

You are a stand-up guy, IMO to tell your side of the story.

Jeff,

It's always good to hear the other side of the story. Thanks again for your help in resolving my issue with my used action. You and your gunsmith were very professional and quick to solve the problem.

Robert

JSMT,
I'm impressed by your post. Owning one 1999 action I'm very glad you decided to share your side of the story. There's a good chance another may be in my future.........at least when the kids get out of college.

Condolenses and prayers offered to you and yours for your daughter.

Rick

Well there you go. There is always 2 sides to every story.

Condolences on your personal loss. Thanks for posting.

Regards,
JohnT

[quote=JSMT]If anyone else is in the same scenerio, all you would have had to do is call me and we could talk about it like men, and fix the issue, not get on a website and do this?

Truly very sorry about your loss.

What is the scenario that we are talking about here? you not having enough money in your account to do a return? it has almost been 40 days. Might I remind you that I contacted Lindsey several times in reference to the cancelling of and refund of the Summit rifle and waited the full thirty days that I was told was your company policy for a refund to be put through. I faxed the request and emailed it, again as per your company policy. I have plenty of documents to show this.I tried to resolve this with you and was more than fair by waiting more that 30days for a refund. I did not contact my CC company or BBB until after I spoke to you personally, after you got back from your black bear hunt in Alaska, and you told me out right that there was not enough money in your account could you pay me a little at a time because August and September are extremely slow in this industry and I have payroll to take care of. I imagine that part of that payroll was yours? "What would you do in this situation?"

Or are we talking about the scenario about the wrong parts going out in the action? and when you got it returned to you with the follower issue You sent it right back out without obviously checking if it was just the follower or if there were any other issues. As I am not the only one obviously with this problem.

WOrds are so true. I would have been a very easy person to please. If I had not had a bad experience with your MRC action. All that was needed was to have a refund put through within your company guidelines and have an action that functioned properly.

That is true. The problem is that was back in February right around when you guys went to the 2008 shot show in Vegas. The action and action only came back to MRC around that time frame to be changed to a 375 H&H and then sent back to my gunsmith and I got double billed for that action. After waiting more than thirty days, once again, the credit was finally put through. It is true that my original order was for a 7rem mag but when the action was returned to you it was to be changed to a 375 H&H which I was told would be fine. Obviously it was never changed because you personally said so. Do you remember that? If not I wouldn't be surprised.

I bought a LH MRC Magnum action back in December. I had no problems what so ever. The action is quite nice and is very slick and smooth. I'd have no problem ordering another. They seem to be first rate in my book.

Once again correct. As per Bob at MRC " the follower that is in the rifle is not ours, your gunsmith probably put the wrong one in." Guess Bob at MRC is not up to speed that you changed designs on your followers around February through July.

Gee It's pretty hard to believe that my gunsmith is on the same page as you when this is the email he has sent to me:

What he says is true enough. However, this would only be true if someone were checking feeding without the extractor in place! You can not check feeding without an extractor!

Jeff skirts around the issue of the blade being too soft. He is right about the hardness of the action and bolt, but the ejector blades are not hardened. Truth is, they probably use soft steel because it machines, or stamps easier. All I do know is that I can bend the three different ejector blades I have from their actions by hand, and I can't bend the Winchester model 70's. Certainly I have not done the design or engineering of these parts, that's not my job. It could well be that you don't need an ejector any more rigid than what theirs is. However, it seems Winchester thinks they should be.Yes, I could have gone to Montana to get the replacement parts for this rifle. I am sure they would not cost you or I anything. However, every rifle I work on I pretend it is my own. Well, I think you know what I would do. Hell, right now I have 4 rifles in my shop built on Montana actions. One is my own .416!!! The other three are "spec" guns that are either finished or nearing completion. I guarantee these rifles will not be sold without me personally going through each and every one. I WILLreplace each ejector for sure. I will probably replace magazine boxes, springs and followers, maybe even bolt stops. What I find on your rifle will certainly influence what I do on the others. Certainly, the experience we have had with this rifle, and with the responses you have had from Montana, have helped make up my mind as to whether we use, sell, recommend, or even look at, another Montana action.

7mmRem the offer is there from MRC to provide you the parts you want. So do you just want to be "Right" or do you want your gun fixed???

If your gunsmith has been misquoted tell him to reply for himself.

Regards,
JohnT

Jeff, roughly 19 people responded to this forum, 13 are in a negative fashion towards your company, resulting in feeding issues, billing issues and incorrect parts. About 6 are in a positive state with your company.

If there are any forums with complaints against your company do not blame me. This is the one and only forum that I am on.

You say talk about it like men. You backed me into a corner holding my money for a credit on the cancellation. I did talk to you like a man and tried to resolve the issue and once again you said there isn't enough money in the account, can I pay you a little at a time? Totally out of the question.

Makes two of us. Unfortunately I can never trust MRC for anything. If need be I'd rather pay for parts or out right dump the project.
As for your post you mention nothing of others going through the same problems. For your sake I hope you don't think that's good business.

Right parts I want? More like parts that were needed.They did enough damage as it is. Id rather pay the money then have them touch anything ever again.

Why? is it because there is so much negativity? There must be so many negative emails, calls or posts that you just don't have enough time to. But I am glad that you personally decided to respond to this one.

7Remmag,

PM incoming,

MtnHtr

Jeff,
First of all, I'm sorry for your loss and my prayers to you and your family.

I would like to know if you have done anything particular to increase quality control? Who does the polishing and has it gotten any better, or do you leave it up to the owner's gunsmith? Do you still have the same gunsmith as you did a few years ago?

Edited because I started to go into details of my ordeal with MRC but I don't want to go there. Let's just say if 7remmag ordeal was even partial of what I went through I understand why he chose to put it out here.

To some of us a custom rifle is more than a rifle. It is almost a holy grail because a lot of us can't afford to constantly build a rilfe every year. It's hard to forgive someone when a dream is shattered. Personally, I still haven't filled that rifle void and constantly wish I just purchased a Sako instead.

I have two MRC's, happy with both. Bought the first one in 04, a 358 Norma and just got the second one in July, a 308 Norma. Both are stainless, and both do have that stainless roughness to them. Dont think I will ever notice it if I have to cycle a round in a hurry, but just enough that it is noticable on the bench.

The 308 did take 2 months longer than anticipated. Jeff did email me right back each time I asked when it was finally going to be ready. The second time, he explained that they only had one gunsmith and he could only do so many a day, and told me where mine was in line. Gave me his number and told me to call any time I felt the need to. After that email, the gun was ready pretty much when he told me it was going to be. He even emailed me and said he packed it up himself to be shipped.

The finish on this one seems a little better than the first one. The barrel stamping on the 358 looks like someone hammered it out with a punch set individually, the letters are not all lined up or spaced consistently. The 308 looks like it was laser engraved, it has a much more professional look to it. Really, all of the lettering on the action looks more professionaly done than the first one.

Both guns shoot great, and dont seem to foul up too quickly. The last 3 times I have had the 308 at the range, it has shot less than 1/2 inch with pretty boring consistency.

I myself like them. In 04, 3 of us ordered our barrelled actions while we were in Iraq. The other 2 guys are happy with their guns as well, havent heard any complaints about them. I will most likely buy another one next year once I figure out what oddball round I want to tinker with.

I understand how some of you guys feel. I have only owned one M-70, and it was a POS from the get go. It went back to the repair center 3 times, and it never came back right, rounds wouldnt chamber fully with out slamming the bolt down, hard. The last time it came back, it looked like a 6 year old took a dremel tool to the feed ramp. I called the repair center and they said that it was fixed and they would not accept it again. I will never own another M-70 again. There aint enough people on the planet to convince me that it is a good rifle, whether they solve their quality control issues or not. Thats how I feel and I understand how some folks feel about MRC.

That may be true Jeff if you were maybe running for office but unfortunately for you these events happened to me and so many others. You need to fix your quality control, just a suggestion. (You said you were open for suggestions at the end of your post)

Somehow, from the tone of your posts, and constant attacks, I think otherwise.

The offer is out there. Get your rifle fixed, or shut the F up!

Not wanting to do that? Be a man of your word (something you like so much to accuse MRC of not being), and dump the project. Donate to somebody on an open forum. Cut your losses and move on.

But, no, that wouldn't work. Then you wouldn't have anything to B!TCH about, would you??

30 posts, and 26 of them are to bash MRC.

No, no agenda here....

Mliang,

"I would like to know if you have done anything particular to increase quality control? Who does the polishing and has it gotten any better, or do you leave it up to the owner's gunsmith? Do you still have the same gunsmith as you did a few years ago?"

Yes, we have have basically a few different procedures for QC, the Head Gunsmith now checks every action as it comes through and then they are checked again upon shipping. Do things get missed, sure it happens, but we have tried to do our absolute best. One thing we have done is that on just actiosn we try to do as much polishing and lapping as we can, square the bolt face lap the lugs and raceways, etc., but not the compelte finish work, that is left up to the gunsmith. On barreled actions we do a lot more of the finish work but still the final finish needs to be by the gunsmith who puts the rifle together. For our compelte rifles, we will do all the final finsh work and make sure it is up the the customers standards and we shoot them to certify accuracy. We do all of the paolish work in house. No, we do not have the same gunsmiths. We have two new gunsmiths who are both incredible and hard working.

"Edited because I started to go into details of my ordeal with MRC but I don't want to go there. Let's just say if 7remmag ordeal was even partial of what I went through I understand why he chose to put it out here.

To some of us a custom rifle is more than a rifle. It is almost a holy grail because a lot of us can't afford to constantly build a rilfe every year. It's hard to forgive someone when a dream is shattered. Personally, I still haven't filled that rifle void and constantly wish I just purchased a Sako instead."

I truly understand, really I do. The thing is, when we sell an action or even a barreled action it is not a finished product. When we sell a complete rifle it is. Like a lot of people have said if you buy and action or a barreled action and slap it in a stock, you have not done the finish work that a good gunsmtih will do to a custom rifle to make it perfect. There are many Incredible gunsmiths out there that do the finish work, and get paid for it, and the rifle turns out as a piece of art. There are also gunsmiths who just slap it together and the customer is never happy. But what can I do about that?

I guess what I should do is compile a list on our website of gunsmtihs who we feel are good guys to go thru to do the final build and leave that up to the customer? Then if you go thru your own, it's your own deal? I mean I can vouch for the ones I know do a good job, but if I don't know them or their work it's hard for me to say they will make you happy? What do you guys think?

Again, if you have had a problem in the past, and care to give us another shot, give me a call explain the situation and I will be more than happy to work something out with you. I am not saying we will make everyone happy, it's obvious we won't but I will try.

GOD Bless.
Jeff

Jeff-

I think that's a great idea.

Some 'smiths are better or more comfortable or just more "experienced" with differet actions (my favorite guy LOVES pre-64 M70s, but always teases me that my actions somehow got an extra 0 scratched on the side with the model number . While he works on them, and does a great job, he much prefers working on an old M70. It's just his "thing").

If you could come up with a list of guys with a proven track record working with your actions, it would be a win-win-win situation (win for you at MRC, win for the gunsmith getting the work, win for the buyer getting a better product).

There are probably plenty of 'smiths who would love to be on your referral list.

Catching the tail end of this rant, but just wanted to give my experience with MRC. After talking with JJHack about his MRC actions, I ordered a barrelled action from MRC.

I had a couple email interactions with Jeff at MRC and found the customer service to be excellent.

Before the actions was shipped, I got a phone call telling me about having to do some extra work to help with the reliability of cycling the action and extraction and said that the work was done and it worked flawlessly but apologized for the delay (about 1 week IIRC).

Upon arrival of the barelled action (late spring this year), I found the workmanship to be top rate. I placed the action in a stock, added my bases and placed a scope. During load workup, with 140g VLD (6.5x284), my third weight charge with H4831SC I got a nice 1/4 MOA cluster at 200 yards. I found cleaning of the barrel to be easy (not rough) and load development almost too easy(rifle looney).

Since that original development, I have worked up a load with 160g Woodleighs which I recently found my load with Magnum that shot 1/2 MOA at 300 yards.

Needless to say, I have found this barelled action and customer service through Jeff Sipe to be first rate. I personally would not hesitate to buy from MRC again.

My experiences only.

This is my last post on this topic. This was my story and obviously many others. You also heard Jeffs story. You can come to any conclusion you like.
If you decide to go with MRC I hope you have a better experience than I had.

some day I plan to use a MRC barreled action. I know many who have them and are very pleased with what they got.

They are favored by many smiths. Some absolutely hate rem 700 actions, but many like them. Same as MRC, win 70, sako, whitworth, or whatever action/manufacturer.

Wish everyohe well.

I have 2 1999's. One is a 25-284 that I bought as a barreled action during the initial offering. Feed, function and accuracy are very good. The second is a .350 Rem. Mag. with a Douglas barrel and Accurate Innovations stock. Again, no problems.

I hope that the folks who have had problems get them handled and report back the final outcomes.

There was at least one other thread where there were a lot of complaints about MRC. IIRC, Jeff got on that one and declared that they were going to fix their problems, much like in this thread. It appears that since then, there has been a repetition of the problems, just like there has been a repetition of the promises by Jeff that the problems had been fixed.

Potential MRC buyers need to really BEWARE.

Steve

NOPE ... all I really need to do is get some more MOOLA so I can order another

George, I agree completely.

I would love to have another one- just have to get the MOOLA(sorry to steal your word) and figure out which caliber.

7x57Steve,
Maybe MRC just has something against people from Maryland? To me it seems MRC are very hit or miss. This reminds me a lot of Kimber threads. Some people get great results and can't believe it when others don't.

Jeff,
Along with a list of gunsmith I think pictures of the action to show what kind of finish you put on the rifle. That way people will know what to expect and can decide for themselves if they want to go farther. It would also give a standard level to compare to.

The two actions I had were finished to different levels. The first one was pretty good except all the rounds would pop out when cycled. The second one was a mess in just about every way.

mliang,

Agree with you on the "hit or miss". I just would not take the chance on another miss. Especially after we keep hearing from MRC that they have, or will, fix their problems.

Not sure about the Maryland connection. It would probably appeal to conspiracy theorists though. (grins)

Steve

The smoke has cleared and the dust has settled. A few days after my last post I contacted Jeff at MRC and had a lengthy conversation about my experience. Jeff did apologize. I had given him some suggestions that I think he took into consideration. After about 45 minutes on the phone both of us, like men, came to an agreement and my refund was processed the following day.

Maybe Jeff can turn that place around.

I have one of the CZ-3`s that MRC supplied the barreled actions for.It is a 300 WSM and shoots 1/2" groups at 100 yds.I can not find a flaw anywhere.I`m just sayin!!!! Huntz

I have no dog in the fight here, but I do have a flawless example of their barrled action in 30/06. Enlarged one hole groups, flawless feed and extraction.

I would buy this again in heartbeat. In my line of work I see a lot of rifles, few would be the equal to this, and none for the price.

Question-- aren;t the MRC actions cast by Ruger?
Seems that I read that in a magazine --
Not that is has anything whatsoever to do with this post, just curious.

Yes they are cast by Ruger not that that is bad at all. Ruger has a superb reputation for metalurgy.

I had one of the very first introductory offered actions. They were just about 'as cast' with just the spruze cut off. I sold it at a loss.

Any other updates about their late quality on barreled actions.???....looks like i just have to wait and hope that my 375 hh steel work that i'm gonna match with accurate innovations stock it's going to be a hit...
I just find this topic a month later after placing the order and pay for them to start.

Good luck...

And prayers sent...

I know this thread is old but some people recently asked me about my experiences with the Montana Rifle Company and I thought I would add them here. I used to own a Montana Rifle Co. rifle in .338 Win Mag. In late 2004, I ordered a stainless steel barrelled action with lugs lapped and action squared and trued. This was going to be THE big game rifle I intended to use for the rest of my life. I took delivery of the rifle in early 2005. I used the rifle for the 2005 Elk and Bear seasons in Colorado.

In addition to growing up on a working ranch and shooting rifles since I was about 5 years old, I am a SWAT Officer and NRA Precision Rifle Instructor. I am not the best rifleman in the world but I do know a little bit about firearms.

Here is the letter I wrote to the Montana Rifle Company regarding my rifle and the problems associated with it.

Dear Mr. Frost and Montana Rifle Company:

I am writing in reference to the enclosed rifle which I purchased last year. Thank you for speaking with me on the telephone last week. I was surprised that my cell phone worked in the San Juan Mountains of Colorado. Please see the enclosed photos of the elk that I took using your rifle. This was my first elk hunt and it took me a full year to prepare for it by saving money, buying the correct gear, and acquiring a proper rifle for true big game. After receiving the barreled action, I had it placed in an Accurate Innovations stock by my gunsmith but I waited for a substantial time before shooting the rifle. I had received the rifle faster than I expected and my elk hunt was still a long time coming. With ammunition costing approximately $30 per box, I decided to wait until my hunt got closer before starting the break in process and my practice sessions.

As we discussed on the telephone, I have some problems and concerns with this rifle:

� The bolt does not always correctly engage the top round in the magazine. Sometimes the bolt simply slides over the top of the cartridge in the magazine. Other times the bolt pushes the cartridge into the chamber but the claw extractor does not �grasp� the case. This occurs approx 10% of the time so it is not a problem that always presents itself. However, when it does occur, I have noticed that it presents a very dangerous situation: Without cautious observation, and because of past failures to feed, the shooter might believe that the bolt did not engage the top cartridge in the magazine and, in order to remedy the problem, he would simply cycle the bolt again. Because the bolt usually does engage the next round in the magazine, it is easy to force the tip of a bullet into the primer of the cartridge that is already sitting in the chamber. This could prove to be disastrous.

This very situation occurred with me on several occasions while breaking in the barrel and it also occurred on the day that I took my elk. My first shot dropped the elk but he was still moving and it appeared that he was about to stand again. I knew that I needed to take a follow up shot. When I cycled the bolt, it pushed the round into the chamber but did not properly engage the cartridge. I had to open the bolt and tilt the muzzle up so that the cartridge would fall out of the chamber. I placed the round back in the magazine and rechambered it. You can imagine my stress at having to work through a problem such as this with a wounded elk on the ground. I cannot even begin to imagine what would have happened if the unsecured round had been made to fire by another oncoming cartridge.

� The action and bolt movement sometimes �binds� and is hard to open; especially after firing the rifle. It is also hard to close the bolt at least for the first half inch of travel. I have noticed that I sometimes have to be almost violent with the bolt to get it to open and cycle correctly. While I understand that a bolt action rifle is meant to be worked vigorously, this bolt is often difficult to cycle, especially for a hunting rifle. I have observed that the bolt must be moved in near perfect alignment for it to cycle smoothly. There seems to be no �forgiveness� in the bolt travel. For smooth cycling the shooter must be cautious not to place any lateral pressure on the bolt; something that may be difficult to do in a hunting situation. The first rifle that I ever owned was a K98 Mauser that I bought when I was 18 years old. Since then, I have owned and shot several other Mausers, a Ruger M77, many Remington 700�s (both hunting and tactical rifles), and a CZ550. I am very familiar with the variations of �slickness� that one finds in bolt action rifles. To make sure that I wasn�t being unfair about the rifle, I asked a colleague of mine, who is a highly trained shooter and who is extremely knowledgeable about bolt action rifles, to cycle the action and to give me his opinion. I did not tell him anything about my thoughts, feelings, or problems with the rifle before allowing him to cycle the action. My coworker was very surprised at the difficulty he encountered when trying to cycle the action. He cycled the bolt several more times and then said, �How much did you pay for this rifle? I think any off-the-shelf Remington 700 is smoother than this! A custom rifle shouldn�t feel this rough.�

� Magazine capacity: I am able to load only three (3) rounds in the magazine from the top. In order to carry four rounds in the rifle, I have to load one round in the chamber, open the magazine from the bottom, and �top off� by placing another round in the magazine and then closing the floor plate over it. However, I have experienced many feeding problems when doing this and so experience has taught me that for the best possible reliability, it is best to load three cartridges from the top of the magazine and to chamber one of them. This means I only have two extra rounds in the magazine when hunting. While I would like to think of myself as a professional and cautious shooter, I would love to have three extra rounds instead of only two.

� Accuracy: I have spent literally hundreds of dollars trying to find a commercially manufactured bullet/cartridge that will shoot accurately through this rifle. I broke in the barrel via the traditional firing and cleaning method. I was very cautious about the break-in procedure since this rifle was literally a once-in-a-lifetime investment for me. I used Remington Core-Lokt ammo for the break-in procedure and noted that the best it would shoot was approx 4� at 100 yards. After the break-in procedure was complete, I tried various loads from Federal to include their �high-tech� 225 grain Nosler Accubond load. Even this round proved to be inconsistent. In fact, the Remington Core-Lokt rounds shot more accurately. I checked the action screws and found them to be snug but not tight. Upon the advice of my gunsmith, I placed medium strength Lock-Tite on them and then tightened them as hard as I could. (Please note that I messed up the slots on the screws even though I used my Brownells screwdriver. I probably need to change those screws to Allen heads instead of slotted heads.) I then tried some more commercial loads with varying degrees of success. So far, the most accurate round I have found for this rifle is the Winchester 200 grain Ballistic Silvertip. It�s ironic for me that this round works best because this is also my duty round in my SWAT rifle, albeit a different caliber. I freely admit that I am not accustomed to shooting such a powerful rifle. I normally shoot .223 and .308 rifles for duty, competitions, and hunting. Some of the inaccuracy was surely my own fault. However, when I saw consistent inaccuracy from certain loads and consistent improvements in accuracy with other loads, I knew that it wasn�t all my fault.

As you can see, I have sent the complete rifle along with my scope. I did not clean the rifle after returning from Colorado because I wanted your staff to be able to see the rifle in its exact hunting condition. This is what the rifle looks like after being carried all over the San Juan National Forest in temperatures ranging from 20 to 65 degrees. The barrel has had 19 rounds fired through it since its last cleaning . This includes my final practice session and the rounds that I fired when I took the elk in Colorado. I bought this rifle with the hope that it would serve for hunting truly big game. I might use it in Alaska someday. I intend to save money for the next 3 or 4 years to go there. Hopefully this will still be the rifle that takes me there.

I humbly and respectfully ask that Montana Rifle Company please look my rifle over and address the concerns that I have listed above. Please feel free to fire the weapon as much as necessary. Please give me an honest assessment. If I am in the wrong, please tell me so and explain why. If I am correct in my concerns please let me know what we can do to correct them so that I can someday hunt moose and bear in Alaska with a truly reliable, controlled-feed, big game rifle.

I waited several weeks and then called them to check on the status of my rifle. They still had not looked at it and stated that they would get on it and call me back in a few days. Two weeks later, I still had not received any call so I called them back. They told me that their gunsmith had looked it over and that the only thing he could find wrong was that the bedding was not done correctly. He claimed that he never got it to malfunction as I stated and said there was no reason why it should be inaccurate. When I asked them how it shot for them, there was a long pause on the phone followed by, "Uh...we didn't actually shoot it." They admitted they did not shoot it and that the gunsmith had only just removed the action from the stock and "looked it over."

I told them to ship the rifle back to me so I could sell it. They asked me if I was serious about this and I informed them that I could not trust the rifle for big game hunting or serious accuracy at long distances. I told them, "I'm not trying to be rude or get out of line with you here but you haven't addressed any of the issues that I brought to your attention both on the phone and in writing. Your gunsmith says there's nothing wrong with the rifle but I respectfully disagree. Just send the rifle back to me and I will sell it so I can buy something else." They asked me not to do this and to give them another chance. They said they would examine the rifle as I had asked them and call me back ASAP.

More time passes....no word....no call.....no letter.....no rifle....

I called Montana Rifle Company back and the owner of the company happened to answer the phone. It was difficult but I remained polite and told him the whole story. It turned out that he had no idea any of this was going on. He said that it would be taken care of. A few days later, my rifle arrived with a note stating the following: (reproduced to the best of my recollection)

1) Inaccuracy may be from inconsistent bedding at the barrel just forward of the recoil lug (Note For Reader: This statement did not go over well with my gunsmith who is a full-time smith, making his living at building custom tactical rifles and hunting rifles for clients who hunt in Africa and Alaska. Moreover, I know what a good bedding job looks like. There was nothing wrong with the bedding job that my gunsmith performed.)

2) We use a more powerful firing pin spring than other manufacturers to ensure proper ignition of primers. This also makes it somewhat harder to open the bolt. This may be the "binding" you described.

3) Even though our action is based on the Model 70 controlled feed action, our extractor is designed to snap over and grasp any cartridge in the chamber. We were unable to make your rifle duplicate the problems you described. However, we have recontoured your extractor so that it will slide over head of the cartridge easier and believe this will solve the problems you described.

4) Feeding - We could find no reason why you would be experiencing the feeding problems you described. Our gunsmith lapped the action a little more.

We hope the above explanation satisifies the complaints you had about your rifle and blah blah blah...

I traded the rifle for a Remington 700. The guy I traded it to was looking for a rifle he could shoot deer with at 200 to 300 yards. For that purpose, the Montana rifle was perfect. For Elk hunting at 600 yards and bear hunting at any distance, it was a disaster waiting to happen.

After the lengthy explanation provided here, I hope everyone understands why I will never buy another Montana Rifle Co. product again. For anyone who found this post while conducting research on MRC, I hope this helps you in your decision.

Texagator,

Thanks for taking the time to tell us your experience with MRC.

My impression of them is that if ANYTHING is wrong with your MRC, it will never get fixed by them. And a lot of stuff goes wrong.

My problem with MRC was an integrity issue on the price of a rifle.

Like you, I'll never do business with them again.

Steve

Sad story. Luckily my 300WSM problems which were similar was fixed by a Williams extractor. If not it was going down the road as well. I hadload as well and could get it to shoot well enough but my MRC CM barrel was in no way hand lapped as claimed and remains a disappointment.

I think the final nail in the coffin is that Winchester which had all sorts of problems at the time of the MRC's introduction has really got their act together. Just got a M70 Supergrade in 30-06 and really wondering why I even bothered. Great barrels and the action/feeding is all sorted out, even grew to love the new trigger and no bedding issues. CRF bargain of the decade IMHO.

regards
JohnT

I was considering purchasing one of these actions but all these reviews are making me reconsider.

run and run fast!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

there is another thread on ask the gun writers section page 4, 5, 6 check it out

I'm going to buy one from Brownells and send it to a gunsmith that specializes in CRF actions. I'll report back.

....and did Jeff agree to you continuing to smear him?? WTF?




why don't you make it just that.....

thought the topic died in 08. now 2010 and the same problems.i can see that they fixed there problems and glitches (lol) i hate to see the hard working people get f?@? .some of the same problems happened to a good friend of mine 6 months ago thats wtf???

7remmag- apologies. I didn't look a the date that this thread was started.

My experience with MRC has been a good one....but. I have also heard of many bad ones.

no problem !! they have a great concept but keep droping the ball in to many areas i guess it is what it is

Them and McGowen are two businesses in the Flathead that DESERVE to go under.

Brian and Jeff at MRC are pretty much about the worst two on the planet to deal with if you have a problem.

McClown, well, they're pretty talented actually. For retards

Brian and Jeff are father and son, so the apple didn't fall....etc.
They deserve each other, and the good folks here at the Fire don't deserve either one of them.

Not sure how they do it, but they are both self-destructive and customer- destructive when it comes to customer service. Or anything else you need or expect from a company you send your money to.

Steve

Is there any further information regarding Montana 1999 actions and the companies productivity and quality? I am still waiting to receive one paid for in July 2018. No news on hold up just no action.

Unfortunately they have been getting some bad press lately.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/13516045/1

It seem like the new owner popped into the forum at one point 6 months or so ago, but I may have my wires crossed.

This is a recent thread https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/12769067/7