Okay, my nephew just turned 12 today and my brother is going to buy him his first rifle. Him and I are debating over the Kimber 84M vs. FN M70 FW vs. Rem M7. The cartridge has been settled and it will be chambered in 7-08. My brother wants to go low budget with the M7, but my nephew and I are talkin' quality. My brother is here online and give us your vote on which rifle.
1. Kimber 84M Super America (nephews pick)
2. FN Winchester M70 FW (my pick)
3. Rem M7 CDL (Brother's pick)

Personally I'd go with #1 and then #3 as a back up.

4 me, they stopped making Winchesters in 1964....grin

Dober

Get the Featherweight! It is much prettier than the others...and you'll be in on the ground floor with a new legend: The FN Model 70!

I'm with the nephew on this.

Lemme ask the following-
If you or your brother could have had a choice of that "special, I'm only 12, this is my first real rifle" when you were that age, would you have liked to get what you indeed wanted?

There are no flies on any of them, but NOT getting him what he wants will only lead him down the path of "I was never happy" from day one, and that leads to a BIG gun safe later in life.

I vote for the new M70!

Buy the new Kimber 84M Classic in 7-08 at The Armoury and save me the money. I don't need it and you do! I have been lusting over that rifle for a while now and I looked at it again today. They are asking only $825 for it and it has very nice wood.

I worked the safety on it again and its a real slick one even better than most other Kimbers which are better than the M70's. The Rems don't have a decent safety.

The Armoury Litchfield, CT
233 Litchfield Tpke
New Preston, CT 06777-2006
(860) 868-0001‎

Its the one in the middle.

Easy one - hold fast when you can, compromise if you must.

Tell you nephew to downgrade to the "Montana". Tell him to be practical. The Super America is for Geezers only.

#2

New M70s are hard to find. Dont know about the Kimbers. Might come down to what you can get your hands on before the season. I been tring to find a M70 in .300 win mag for quite some time with no luck.

You should solicit the young man's opinion since he is the one who's going to have to carry it and shoot it.

Let him hold examples of each one and decide for himself, then honor his choice.

#2

Most, but maybe not all 12 year olds will just pick the most expensive option if it fits them or not.

How many of us were presented with a $1000+ rifle as our first deer rifle? Willing to bet, not many.

We just got back from the toy store. He shouldered the M70 and M7. He said the M70 felt better. Tomorrow we will have a long drive to a shop that has a kimber 84 superamerica in stock and try it out. Oh, and while at the store I swiped my credit card on a FN M70 in .308, it's got a good peice of wood on it too.

I agree. Any way you look at it, he is a very lucky young man. I'd have been tickled pink with any of the choices at 12. Heck, I'd be tickled pink if someone was going to give any of the three at 42.

get the kid the gun he wants.

Definitely get him what he wants! Most rifles weren't 1K when i was a kid but dad bought me the coolest stuff, to me, to hunt with. i still have the M77 30-06 that was my first big game rifle and my 700 BDL varmint special 6mm that was used for varmints. those two will never leave my family.

Guess what i'm saying is don't make the kid compromise if you don't have too.

Just my .02

My vote is let the kid choose. He's the one who will be shooting it. All the choices are fine rifles. He even might end up choosing none of the above.

I'd let him choose; it's his rifle. Even if he makes a mistake...so what. How many of us haven't?It's a process!

I also say let the kid choose.

I have never made a mistake purchasing a gun that can not be quickly remedied with another trip to the 'fun' store

Oh yeah, to the question at hand, I would hand him a Kimber Montana and see if his eyes light up. Kevlar/Stainless is the new Wood/Blued, and is about $700 less than the Super America!

I think holding any of the 3 in his hands and knowing that it is his will bring a smile to his face.

If someone was poised to make an uninformed choice its any 12 year old. What can they know?

Instead inform them of all the options and guide the 12 yo to an sensible choice.

For instance what LOP is correct for the young hunter at 12? Perhaps a rifle with a plastic stock might be where to start so that the stock can be cut now and then increased in LOP as required and painted over.

What makes you think this 12 yr old is unimformed?

Its quite possible he is sorounded by adults that shoot alot and he has already formed his own opinion from actually handling/shooting these rifles.....like I said let him make the choice....I'm glad my father did.

Part of me says, he's lucky to get any of them. And what fits him best now may change later since he is growing fast. While it'd be nice to have perfect LOP, etc. ... most folks adapt OK and make do with the avg's manufacturer's give us.

I don't buy the argument he must have what he wants. He should be tickled to death to have any of them. But, all of these rifles are close in price to each other; perhaps even roughly the same depending on the deals available. There is not a lot of difference between (1) and (2) really.

I don't own a Kimber, but I've seen mixed reviews on them. It would be a shame if he got a stinker, pretty and light as the Kimbers may be. Perhaps (2) is a safer bet. Seems like everyone here with one of the new M70's are pleased with them and FN is supposed to have really tight tolerance control in their plant.

OK, long-winded ramble there, but I vote M70 as first choice. But hey, if Dad is the one shucking out the simolians for this rifle, maybe his choice should be king .

As an aside...my personal first choice would be the M7.

Couldn't agree more. I hope it's not the case, but if he's the type of kid who is going to whine/pout if the doesn't get his way. Than he's going to have a long life ahead of him filled with disappointment most likely. All I see is the Super America is the most expensive of the bunch and thus that's what he wants.

I have a twelve year old nephew who wants wants wants, but is usually more than thrilled if he get something sporting related.

Lots of things I wanted when I was that age that I didn't get, just gave me more incentive to work harder in life and sadly there's still a lot of things I'd like but can't reasonably afford.

And as it's been pointed out, at least two outta the three choices will more than likely not fit him well right now. Maybe he can adapt, but if the dimensions are really outta whack than he's going to pick up bad habits that will plague him for years to come. With that said my pick would go to the M7, nice little guns that are more geared towards smaller frames, but are still suitable for adults.

Remington all the way.

Information or being informed is gained by experiance and weighing one feature against another. A 12 yo cannot have much experiance.

I do welcome him into the world of riflemen.

Let the kid choose on Dad's dime??

Iffin' dats the case, they'd all be carrying iphones and driving BMW's and such.

Outta curiosity, when did the M7 become "low" quality? I could see barrel lenght disqualifying it ...

Get the Kimber and he'll have a classic to cherish all his days. I think it's a great rifle for a 12 year old...in fact, I purchased this very rifle in 7-08 for my son, and he's only 4 1/2. Of course, Dad gets to use it until he's old enough to carry it (grin).

Well this morning all of us drove down to Sportsman Warehouse and he got to shoulder a Kimber Super America in .243. He looked at us with this "sad puppy face." Well....my brother dished out his credit card and swiped it across the debit machine. He ordered my nephew the Kimber S.A. in 7mm-08, my nephew with his money that he saved bought a Swarovski AV 3-9x36 for $535 that was on sale as a dicontinued item. It will be a nice rifle!

That sounds like a winner! And a Swaro to ride on top as well..WOW!
Youngster obviously has good taste.

Don't know many folks that don't still own the first gun gifted to them. That one's special.

The lawn had better be cut ALL THE TIME now.

This an expensive place for advice isn't it?

Guess I grew up in the wrong family. My first rifle (which I will always have) was a 1917 Enfield that dad built a stock for, and had the ears ground, drilled/tapped, etc. Believe the rifle sold for $35 and the Weaver scope I painted the house for sold for $28. Couldn't have been happier if it had been a model 70, though I did pine over the Herters catalog for their U9.

I have to admit I�m a little envious� for my first rifle my dad helped putting a $100 on a gun �we� needed. We had just moved to Alaska and �we� needed a .338 win mag. WAY too much gun for a 12 year old with no center fire trigger time. Then he hoodwinked me out of a leupold scope for his $100 share in the rifle. I still have it but haven�t shot it in ~13 years since leaving Alaska. Not too many good memories with that one other than a couple kills (his first moose & my bison).

I'm liking one of these for my wife ... in .243.

Wow, I think times have changed.

I was tickled pink with my used Ruger M77 and Weaver K4. As I said before your nephew is a lucky young man.

Sounds expensive, but my first rifle was a Rem 700 in 270 that cost $100. That seemed like a lot of money at the time. I think we need to accept that a dollar doesn't buy what it used to.

Not too long ago my son asked if he could have one of my rifles. He chose my most accurate big game rifle, which had just been restocked and had a new trigger installed. The look on his face when I gave it to him, made me not care about the cost.

My nephew came home with a happy face and will ahve the rifle in hand in the next 10 day wait period. (stupid I-O-U-fornia law) When we got home we told my sis-n-law we bought him a gun. She was proud that they both are going to spend more time together............until she asked how much it cost, HAHAHA!

"$2500!!!!!!!! YOU BETTER UPGRADE MY FREAKIN' DIAMOND.......YOU SERIOUS!!!!!!TWENTY FIVE F****** HUNDRED DOLLARS????!!!!!!YOU MISTER, BETTER PUT IN OVERTIME AND NO, NO YOU ARE NOT COMING TO BED TONIGHT, HIT THE COUCH IN THE BASEMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

None are turds, so you can't go too wrong.

If the kid has a passion for rifles at 12, I'd get the most quality I could afford.

If the kid is spoiled, and gets new $hit all the time and will forget about the rifle in a week, get the lowest cost option, or, get the one YOU want to have after the kid forgets about it.

Oops, I see the choice was already made. LUCKY KID!

There's nothing low budget about the Remington Model 7. It's a fantastic rifle. The Kimber would have been my last choice, but they are accurate enough for deer hunting.

Sad story to me.

Looks like the deed was done.
Had I voted it would have been:

1. Rem 7
2. Win FWT
3. Kimber

g

Good for him, he now has a gun that he can charish his whole life! You say you bought it at Sportsmans Wharehouse though, aren't they out of business?

If dad's pockets are deep, guess it doesn't make too much difference. I can guarantee that my son will not have his very own $2500 rifle when he is 12(in ten years), even factoring in inflation. Most likely he will have something like a Model 7 or a lever gun. Those inevitable dings and scratches only cost a few dollars versus hundreds of dollars with the fancy Kimber. Besides, what do you have to look forward to as far as gun purchases if you have already won the gun lotto at age 12?

pretty good advice for my tastes right there


my kid could have had any rifle (within reason) that he wanted

he picked the T3 over the Kimber as it shouldered more comfortably for him and he thought the action was smoother.

saved me about $400 bucks

don't believe he's spoiled but he does have some nice toys, Sage fly rod, Rem 700 in .223, T3 in '06, win trapper pre safety in .44 mag, a McHale backpack, good boots, cell phone with unlimited text.

but he's a good kid, I got robbed with the first one and couldn't buy her chit, she didn't finish high school and was a giant PIA discipline wise.

he's respectful to me and his mom, a hard worker, not a complainer and just all around good kid, got lucky with this one. and I've been lucky financially, he's gonna share in some of that and leave home with some big boy toys that I had to buy myself as I was able.

There are two here in I-O-U-fornia. The one in Visalia is closed after only 6 months of service. The only one still around is the one in Rocklin. A guy in Canada bought some of the few existing stores.

Make the kid work and save his money for his gun. He may not be able to buy a Kimber or a new Winchester but he will be able to find a good used rifle for a descent price. He will appreciate it more and he will learn what its like to work toward a goal. Many guys that had to go through this still have the first gun they worked for and wont part with them. This is a right of passage that a young man need to go through!

Nothing wrong with giving kids good kit, once they appreciate it.

My dad wasn't a rifle looney, or heavy on loot. His guns were a M94 30-30, and a single-shot 12 gauge. One day when I was about 13 years old, he came home with two new rifles and a huge grin on his face. Both were Win M670A, a 30-06 with a steel Weaver K4, and a 243 with a Tasco 4X. He handed me the 243 and said it was mine. I was elated, hadn't a clue it was a budget rifle. Learned to hunt muleys and reload (Lee Classic kit) with that rifle.

Now that I'm older, I can appreciate the fact he bought himself a budget gun, so he could afford to get one for me too. He could have bought himself something a lot nicer and handed me the 30-30. The love of a Dad.....

I have a great bud who can afford most reasonable toys. His two sons and daughter have been brought up right and love to shoot and hunt. They work their buts off at home and the camp they have and know as much about such things a planting food plots, cutting firewood and cooking as most adults. Good school grades are expected along with keeping their nose relatively clean. They do their part Mom and Dad do theirs. The rules are simple and enforced. Those kids have also had some things taken away when they pushed the rules.

Each kid is different as to what you do.

agree 100%

Get him the Kimber!! After a long day crusin the bush up and down hills and beyond he'll thank ya for the Kimber. Great cartridge choice by the way.

Clearly, you people do not love your children.

Proper choice would have been a Holland & Holland Royal DeLuxe magazine rifle London best gun, probably in, oh, I dunno, 6.5 x 55. No point in overdoing things...Schmidt & Bender optics are plenty good enough for a beginner. Again, don't overdo...CONETROL scope mounts, no real need for European claw. One round trip to and from London on NetJet G5 should be enough for fitting, and under no circumstances more than one night at the Connaught.

But, for goodness' sake, DO NOT SPOIL THE CHILD OR DO ANYTHING TO CREATE UNREALISTIC EXPECTATIONS OF REAL LIFE...i.e, absolutely NO full-coverage scroll engraving.

Any one would make a great 1st rifle....but not knowing how big of a kid he is have you measured his length of pull? the 7 or CDL might fit him better.

and times sure have changed since I was 12. My 1st was a used 30-30 marlin. I thought it was the cat's azz at the time.

LMFAO....Vital, your brother is a brave one.....I would of had to make up a white lie on that one. No way I could have pulled it off for 2,500 clams.

When giving a gift, if I know exactly what the person wants, I get them exactly what they want. Lots to be said for getting exactly what you want, especially when it's something that will last for a lifetime. That pretty stock and fine finish will get dinged and scratched over a kid's lifetime, and every ding and bump and bruise is a reminder of a hunt or a trip to the range, or something else that is good.

It only gets better with age, and a well used rifle is something to be proud of.

All that said, it depends on the kid, and whether he will take it for granted or appreciate it for what it cost in real terms (overtime and sacrifice). Sounds like he is the latter.

I would look for a slightly used good rifle and put a youth stock on it.
my m7 is an 88 and alot nicer than the new ones.

JMHO