my boy is about a year away from hunting,he is tall and skinny 4'10" 75lbs 9 YO.nothing but bone and muscle.

whatcha think?

Depends on the kid. One of my shooting buddies bought one of the new Marlin bolt actions in .270 WIN for his grandson, a 9 year old who is built as you describe your son. That boy is shooting him out of house and home - he will shoot that rifle until the ammo runs out at the range and ask for more; he is getting to be a pretty decent shot. Try to get a friend with a .270 WIN to let your son try it at the range and find out.

depends upon how much you love him.

I love my kids quite a bit more than that,so am perhaps biased................

You calling a 270 child abuse?

If feasible, let him shoot it with iron sights first. Some people get "intimiated" with the scope in place anticipating it going to hit them during recoil..

A .270 is a flat shooting, 300-yard antelope, mule deer, and sheep rifle. Most have a 24 inch barrel and a little bit of heft to them.

I hope no youngster is going to start out shooting at 300 yards, or 200 yards, or even 100 yards. He is probably going to be shooting from a blind, treestand, or a good rest, like from behind a fallen tree trunk, at 25 to 50 yards.

All he needs for that is a .357 Magnum, but a .44 Mag carbine, or a .30-30 loaded with a mild dose of powder and 125-gr bullet would is more than enough to one-shot DRT any deer that presents itself at a good angle, and stands still for a few seconds. A 20-inch lever action is a great grade up from a .22 lever action. There's nothing wrong with a single shot like the old Savage, or the new NEF, either. A Savage 340 bolt action in .30-30 is cheap, and a real rifle.

Why do I get the idea something REALLY funny is coming?

I'd call it an unfavorable welcome to the sport. As per extrapolations,an 8lb all up 270 in the mitts of a 90lb kid,is akin to a 16lb rifle being wielded by a 180 pounder.

While not 100% lineal in Nature,you get the idea.

Pun intended................

I mean even funnier than a clueless moron advocating a mule kick from a NEF for a skinny kid...

Already did.

4ft 10 in as long as his arms fit his build it probably would work great

IMHO,the Montucky in 223 or 243,is alotta love...that will last a lifetime...................

ADK4, You did not mention what you want your child to do with it. If the rifle is for deer hunting I would suggest a 6x45. I saw it used on impala with great results just ten days ago. Nosler ptn, 85 gr. @ 2500 fps. Very good out to 175 yards or so. One shot one ram!

How much lead can you bury in the stock?

Why would a guy weight a rifle for a young child he loved?................

7mm-08 or 25-06 is a good bet

Do what my Dad did and outfit him with a 28" bead sighted 20 gauge auto and Brennekes.....

Went 3 for 3 at 12 years old, but....

Help him hit, carry, enjoy.

Montanas and 84M's r nice, even when your older...

There are some good low recoil loads for the 270 i think it would be a good idea he always have a good versitile rifle for the rest of his life I got alot of guns the old savage 30-06 Daddy started me out with would be the last to go it means more to me than any of them and probably worth the least in monetary value

I was going to say a youth 20ga would probably be a better bet for his age and size. Thats what I started with, a Mossberg 20ga and rifled Winchester slugs.

'cause he don't wanta beat 'em.

I like to start the kids out with a 223AI...

Mine is mostly sarcasm and much on archaic laws.....

I did mention hitting, carrying, enjoying. No on the 20 gauge for ungulates if a choice can be made.

I bet that dude had that mustache in sixth grade....

Exactly what i started with at 9 (iron sights)parker hale

I don't remember any recoil but i didn't shoot paper either, prolly too much adrenaline.

Pard,that's Paul's 5th Grade Field Trip pic,that you are gawking......................

He will have....

It'd be difficult to argue the "merits" of giving a kid a heavy,hard recoiling rifle and going the extra mile to have him refrain practice to boot.

Just sayin'...................

Set the kids up for success,not failure..................

laffin'

I agree, but i remember the time and my parents didn't have a lot of money, if i remember right it was a smokin deal and my dad bought it. I had shot plenty with small guns and maybe he thought if i was lucky enough to get a shot and kill, i would'nt flinch?

The 270 will be too much for most 9 year olds.

I betcha the 270Win is easily too much for 80% of the gents offering "advice" on this thread alone..................

The 270 is a little much for some folks I see at the range, no doubt.

I used reduced loads to start my daughter at age 12 with a relatively light .270 (Ruger #1A); just the ticket.

2 inch 357 Mag.....

it wont take to long for 80 % of the people on this thread to figure out your a dumass why dont you read and learn a little

I'd opt for a .260.

Got to agree with PWC, It's what I started with and it set my progression in shooting accuracy back quite a ways. If legal a 223, or if not a 243 or 250 Sav. will be easier to learn good habits with and work great well into second childhood. I'll give up easy shooting rifles for BIG game but deer ain't big or hard to kill.

I would agree that the 270 is too much for a child. I was forced to learn with a 270 at a young age and learned poor habits such a flinching and jerking the trigger. Those habits stayed with me until recently when I started reloading and working up loads. I had to really concentrate on the same shooting routine when testing new loads. That and the fact that I shoot at least once a week instead of right before season to check gun. I would say get a 243 or 7-08 and have them shoot a lot.
Rick

I would say it's too much. I have a 12 year old boy, 4" 10" and 100+ lbs - he's shot 22 a fair amount. He was started on and currently uses a Rem M7 youth model in 7mm-08. I started him on light loads and currently load a 120 gr bullet over the starting loads listed in the book. I started with a 243. I'd recommend a light weight 243/260/7mm-08/250 savage etc....

I'd go with a 243. Plenty for what he'll be doing for a lot of years. When he gets to be 14 or 15, drop a nickel on a 270.

I learned the finer points of flinching from the exact treatment being discussed (plus a steel butt plate). With today's bullets there is no need for a kid to go through that. Caliber down and bullet up. We are talking the future of the sport here. Kids having an addictive experience is of paramount importance.

I recently shot a 30-06 with Remington Managed Recoil ammo. It was a very mild kicking load. I bet the .270 will be even milder. That may be your best bet provided that the gun fits your little guy. As he gets older (and bigger) you can transition him to regular loads.

BTW...jcdixon77, you are the "dumass". And rude too..

This place never ceases to amaze me....

i was just simply replying to a comment he made eighty percent of the peoplle on here could handle a .270 really not that rude just snapp at certain things my apoligies
BTW WAR DAMN EAGLE toooooooo

I've taught a few little ones to shoot, and they're holding their own. They need a rifle they can handle and recoil that is not unpleasant.

In a rifle a child can handle well, recoil will not be pleasant in a 270.

In fact, most adult first timers don't do well with 270 level recoil, even when shooting a much heavier rifle than a child should carry.

If the barrel is suitable to a little feller, muzzle blast will be pretty nasty out of a 270 as well. IME, they flinch and dodge muzzle blast more recoil. Be sure they have good hearing protection!!!!

Since they need a lighter, easier to handle rifle, 223 to 243 makes a lot more sense - and a 223 is plenty of gun with a good bullet.

One other thing - folks often want to start kids with klunky, junker rifles with sorry triggers, etc. When they are starting, they probably need quality gear more than at any other time. They are developing habits that will bless or curse them for the rest of their lives.

Get quality, set it up right, and err on the side of mild recoil and muzzle blast. Once good habits are ingrained, they will climb the ladder quickly as they advance.

Montanas, a faux Ti, and a well set-up Model 7 in 223 have worked mighty well for my young ones. I'd sure lean Montana if moving up the recoil scale - the stocks are recoil taming marvels IME.

Build good habits and memories - set them up to succeed and feel good about the early experiences. I tried to do that, enjoyed some success, and now every one of my young 'uns is more than a little passionate about hunting.

Good hunting,

DJ

jcdixon77, You are the man! Thank you for that post.

Providing the rifle fit's the child,load up some 130 gr bullets (almost any flavor would work) over 40 gr of varget which should be in the realm of 2650'ish f.p.s.& put the recoil to that of about a .243,limit their shots to 150 yds or so maybe 200 max.
Hank

depends on him the most important thing is that he doesn't develope a flinch from it. load it lightly and it should be fine.

DJTex
"One other thing - folks often want to start kids with klunky, junker rifles with sorry triggers, etc. When they are starting, they probably need quality gear more than at any other time. They are developing habits that will bless or curse them for the rest of their lives."

That is exactly right! My father started us off carrying "junkers" and called them that all the time. Much later he admitted it was the single biggest mistake he made in teaching us gun safety and care.

It is hard to respect a junker...
art

For those who made snide comments about a .30-30 kicking too much, or a single shot kicking too much, slow down and read the posts before responding. A .357 or even a .44 Magnum in a Marlin 1894 carbine or Thompson single shot have very little recoil or muzzle blast. A .30-30 down loaded with 125-gr bullets at 2200 fps is about the same.

As for "junkers", that mentality is something inculcated by adults. If the adults enjoy shooting old military rifles, their children will not think of those as junkers. A lot of uninformed people might run into an old coot with a pre-64 Model 1894 Winchester and not realize it is worth more than their shiny new synthetic rig, and has killed 30 times more deer.

Search my user name a couple of weeks and you will see a thread I started about the question on a starting youth gun. Good advice on the thread came in from many. My problem is compounded a little as my son is left eye dominant. Mine is 11 and started him with a 22 at 6 yrs old. I'm looking at a youth model in 243 or 7mm-08. I believe a gun sized for a youth will help in good shooting technique.

To me the recoil and muzle blast in a 270 is too much for a child. Look at the short action rounds, 243, 260 or 7mm-08 as recoil is about half of what the 270 produces. Make sure the gun fits and have a good time. Nothing wrong with the 22 CF's to start but in my neck of the woods they are illegal to hunt deer.

That statement right there tells me that you have never shot a Marlin 44mag...........

I own and shoot a Winchester 1894 saddle gun in .44 Magnum. Just as with the handguns, you can shoot .44 Special ammunition in it, if the .44 Magnum is too much for you.

That's why I urge you to read before commenting - my first choice is a .357 Magnum lever gun or single shot, and limit shots to 50 yards. And, yes, I own several of those rifles, too.

If the youth hunter is under 5 feet tall, he is surely going to need a lighter rifle, with a cut down stock, so why not buy a used rifle and chop that up, then download it to 7 ft-lbs of recoil if it is something like a 7mm-08?

I remember when I first came to this web site and was ridiculed for suggesting the 7mm-08 with 120-gr Nosler Ballistic Tips, downloaded to 2,500 fps. Now, the same people are big fans of the 120-gr BT. Funny what a little actual experience will do for people.

Another suggestion, which I don't own, but seems to work for a lot of people:
CZ 527 carbine in 7.62x39mm.

My marlin 1894 will kick the snot out of you with standard loads and your above statement says nothing about specials

What you don't know is how your son will respond to the recoil and I'm not a big fan of rocking a kids world to early on. If you have a .243 or even a 7/08 with light loads it might be worth a try.

CLB

I read through all the replies. Aren't you a handloader? If so, don't overlook the 257 Roberts, I'm suprised it hasn't been mentioned. That rifle can be downloaded to less than 243 recoil and as the young man develops so can the loads, to near 25-06 levels. For whitetalis, hogs, mule deer and old pharts, women and children it's the caliber to consider (and dads that want to shoot an awesome caliber).

We have 3 in the family now, waiting for the grand sons another 3-4 years.

My take is that trying to buy a child a rifle for life hardly ever works. If the rifle fits, then they outgrow it. My cousin's 10yr old grandson shot a super 12 point MO buck with a H&R Handi Rifle in .357mag. My niece's 10yr old shot a 9 point in this years KS youth season with his dad's BLR in .243. My 11yr granddaughter shoots a Sav 99 in .243. I can't imagine her even trying a .270. Good luck.

When my daughter was about 85 lbs. she was going with me to the rifle range and wanted to shoot my .308. So, I was happy over her enthusiasm and let her have a shot off of the sand bags. Let me say I was so surprised, it literally drove her back about two feet, and I felt terrible.
I would say the 270 and even the 7/08 is too much recoil for starting a kid less than 100 lbs., a good recoil pad is a big help, but we who have been shooting for a while tend to forget about the rifle and scope movement.
I would go with .243 for deer.

I think the best possible plan is to let the kid shoot .22 LR plinking and possibly a borrowed .223 until they are asking for a game rifle.

own one....hell you invented them didn't you?

dixon,

I bet you are dumb as you look.

Hang a pic..................

I shot my first deer with a 270 at age 11. I still have the scope ring in between my eyes. I was not a small child. Now I am 6'6" and 280lbs.

Started out with a 30-30 Marlin, then had to shoot Dad's 270. Was I big enough, sure, but I did not have enough time behind the scope to be proficient. I had only shot it at the range in the backyard.

I rode the stock and got too close to the scope. I also had a great problem locating the deer in the scope. Did it dissuade me, no, but I could see it turning some kids off of it forever.

With the new mangaed recoil shells and such, it would be better. I really think a lesser caliber in a smaller rifle with a long eye relief scope would be the best. Maybe even an Encore.

The 6x42 shines here,as it do everywhere...............

Look, Larry has some valid points, and if the concentration was on the message and not the messenger, that'd probably get picked up on fast.

There are two problems with going the .270 route, versus the .223 or .243 route as he indicated.

The first is that most .270s are rather heavy. As he indicated, a standard .270 to a kid that size is going to weigh and feel like a 15-16 pound rifle to many of us. That, is not insignificant, and would be a problem from the get-go.

To go the opposite route, and make it light enough to be handy for the kid, you're upping the ante on recoil. A 9 pound .270 to a kid that size, in recoil, is going to be akin to a 5-6 pound .270 to us, and a 6 pound .270 to the kid is going to be akin to an 8-9 pound .375H&H or worse. Again, something to consider.

My daughter is going hunting with me for her first time this fall. She's quite a bit smaller than the kid in question, and the rig she's going to use is a .243. There are several very good loads (light) for the .243 if you handload, that reduce the blast (another consideration for young, inexperienced shooters) and recoil to negligible, nearly inconsequential levels. Seafire posted a few of those a while back. And, they'll kill deer NICELY. The .243 is something that the kid can grow into and with, and really never outgrow, while not being abused up front, either by weight of the rifle or recoil.

I'd not run the .270 route for the kid, as the concessions and the complications are just too great.

Feed a kid's confidence that is fueled by their practice,with good bullets and the rest is easy.

I'm amazed at the percentage of folks purposely doing their kids wrong,in all those departments.................

Agreed.

Of course, stumbling upon a first run Rem.700 ADL carbine in .243 makes the choice easy.

That, coupled with some of Seafire's BlueDot loads, bullets that go exactly where you want them, do nasty things to critters when they get there, and even a 6 year old can fill the pot. That's the idea, assuming the venison cooperates.

This schit, ain't hard.................... though if you try, you can make it so (been guilty of that before).

Set them up for success and the rest is easy..............

That's the goal.

There was a bunch of us kids of similar age in my family and we started out with various 600's, 660's, 788's, and 700's, all in 243win. I killed my first one at 9yrs and 80lbs with a 600/308win, but Pop was smart enough to know that I needed something more appropriate. The next Christmas I got a 243 ADL, B&C handle, dies, and Partitions.

I know a guy who started hunting with his 8 year old grandson last year. He bought a M77UL in 223 and the kid kills reliably with 62gr Partitions.

My dad started me with a H&R topper buck gun in 12ga.. took me about 5 years to figure out that guns didn't hurt when you shoot them.

Up grading rifles is easy.. getting over a flich.. not much so.

Remington youth in 243.. good idea

Or maybe a Marlin in 357. Won't kick much and you can buy pistol ammo in boxes of 50 (even 38 spec reloads in bags of 100). Once he progesses to a bigger gun that little carbine in 357 will still be lots of fun for both you and him.

From a guy who started with a 338 WM at 12 because 'we' (my dad) needed one since we'd just moved to Alaska. It kills on one end and maims on the other. I had a great upbringing but that is one thing I do hold a bit of a grudge on.
I'd second the 223/243 starting gun. In fact I recently purchased a youth 223 for my kids, one is 2 and the other 1 month old. I�m working on breaking it in for them with a full size stock until they�re bigger :);, it will double duty as my walking around coyote gun until then. Shop around pick up a good used starter gun and when they�re bigger you can probably sell it for what you�ve got in to it and move up if they want.

My kids all shoot rather exceptionally and there's no doubtthat is because I put much thought into gearing them for success.

Much to be said for a scoped,high quality air rifle laying by,that they can shoot to their heart's content.

None of this is Rocket Science................

+P, even if not scoped.

I am starting mine on something smaller than a .270.

First a 223 in 1:8 twist, now I'm flirting with a 6.5x45L

I've always had a .22lr to match the centerfire.

I know I'm beating a dead horse but I bought my youngest son a 270 many years ago. It was a great deal and I figured he could use it when he was ready. I started both of my sons out with a 250-3000 which they liked. One day, when he was 11, he spied the 270 in the safe and asked who's it was. I told him it was his when he was older. Kid had more guts than brains at the time and hounded me that he was ready. We went out back, he shot it once, handed it back and said he liked the 250 better. He is now 15 and has used his 270 for 2 years. Shoots it well and can handle it.

Hold up a minute while I get my popcorn ready!!!!

I'd wager that the lad will be more comfortable and confident shooting a .243 than a .270. Moreover, a well-shot deer will do more to boost his confidence and self-esteem thant a gut-shot one from the rifle he couldn't quite handle.

Those first experiences are what will make or break him if he is like most kids.

I started my son out with a gun that fit him, has reasonable recoil, is topped with a good scope and the trigger is adjusted for a good clean relatively light break. I spent at least as much on that rifle as I have on any gun I've gotten for myself.

I'd say in a few range sessions he got further than I did in my first several years dinking around with various guns, chamberings et al. He also likely can outshoot the majority of folks I see at the range. Good stuff really doesn't cost much more than mediocre stuff, and your kid will go farther and faster than you can imagine.



I just need to get him away from the 100 yd berm and see what happens when he stretches out to 300. Then we'll have to see about hanging some steel out to 500.

You can't get a kid a gun that is too accurate, nor teach them to shoot too well. But you certainly can handicap them in an attempt to save a buck, or get a gun "appropriate for a kid".

Another gem there Lee... I referred specifically to the NEF single shot. Clearly you are clueless about how they recoil. They are light and poorly designed. Doubt you will understand that either.
art

ADK4Rick,
If you handload then I suggest that you load a 130 gr. bullet down to about 2200 to 2400 FPS until he grows a bit and developes some confidence in his shooting..That will kill a deer plenty good enough and recoil will be very little..

I started all my kids and grandkids off with a 222 and 60 gr. Hornadys and it worked very well up to about 100 yards or so on our Mule Deer..Later they went on to the 25-35, 6x45 , 250 savage and up..Today they all shoot well and are confident in shooting any caliber.

Just let common since guide you, its no big deal.....

When Riley was 6 I stocked a 700SPS in 243 for him. Knowing he was going to be tall I made it a trifle long for him, but put a thin pad on it. Adding a couple pounds of lead under the recoil pad for range sessions made it absolutely a joy for him to shoot.

The lead is no longer needed and a full thickness pad gave him most of the length he needs. He still shoots it regularly.
art

I feel it all depends on the kid, some kids it'll be a bit much and that's not good. Some kids will be just fine with it.

I'd error on the lighter side and work him up from that. Get him into a 223 or a 243 and see how he works with those. Then, you could move him up if it feels right.

You know him, we don't so you're the best one to answer the question.

I was at the range a while back and a fella had his kids there. His daughter was young and obviously just getting into the shooting game. Well long and the short of it she wanted to fire his gun (an 06) and I couldn't believe it when he let her. The gun came back and whacked her a good one, she dropped the gun and was crying big time. I truly felt for her and I also just trying wanted to toss my gloves on the ice and pound her dad into the terra firma. I mean that guy was seriously twisted for allowing his daughter to fire that gun. I'd say there's a fair chance that he might of ruined her from shooting for a long long time. It was really a sad thing to see.

So, if it's a question then back off and let him begin with something a bit more piquito.

Best of luck to ya! And good on you for working with a youngster.

Dober

.................Imo and as others have wrote, it depends on the boy. I`d certainly consider getting him a rifle that can be used into his adulthood, rather than just settling for something now, which you know he`ll outgrow due to him wanting more oooomph later in the future.

At almost 10 years old and at about 120-130 lbs (a little chubby then), I started with the 150 gr 30-06. My dad said; "here use this and btw it`s all yours!" Later, I rotated between a 22 and smaller rifle calibers once in awhile, but always liked the `06 best as it wasn`t boring to shoot because it had some kick to it. And within a few practice sessions I was doing real good with 150 gr factory loadings. To this day, I still prefer the recoil and more of it!

The 270 Win imo, is a cartridge your son will grow into nicely as he gets older, bigger, stronger and heavier with more meat on his bones. If you`re a reloader, you can for now, reduce the loadings into milder loads to reduce the recoil.

Along with some good bench rest positioning and freehand shooting fundamentals and after a few practice sessions, he should be just fine with a 270 and ready for some hunting next year.

An excellent rifle and rifle size that comes to my mind, would be the Ruger Hawkeye Ultralite with the 20" barrel, which is available in the 270. Or something along those lines.

After he grows up, the rifle still won`t be too small and it will certainly be powerful enough.

I really don't think a 75 pound 9 year old is going to get along with a short barreled 270.

Kids just naturally wanna do good and to purposely slight them that opportunity,is boneheaded as an absolute minimum.

Good bullets,in good places,kill like thunder and there is not ONE single reason not to make that fun for all...................

I wouldn't worry so much about the kid outgrowing the rifle and needing a different one down the road. Lot's cheaper to get him something he will enjoy and which will wet his appetite for more.

Getting him a rifle that he won't enjoy shooting...and won't shoot it much...is the worst investment.

Besides instilling bad habits that may last a lifetime................

thanks for all the input,I hope I provided some entertainment also.
the boy has no fear of pain,but thats in football not shooting,I think I will try and find him a 243,preferably an old 722 or something like that,my gramps taught me that guns are tools and not trophies,otherwise mabey the Marlin bolt.

all of my rifles are shorties,308 M7,99 300 sav,336 35 Rem,that is why I asked,I had no clue to the 270,they aren't very common in the NE,and I have seen the 260 bandied about as a starter rifle,so I thought the 270 might be in the same ballpark.

now there is a little less I don't know crap from crisco about,thanks fellas.

Hand the boy the 99,a sharp knife and a tag.

You are there.................

Here's a thunk. Get a 223 if you don't already have one, no one should be without at least one.

Then find a 700 Yute in 243 and after he's masterered the 223 (which will most likely take about 7 minutes...grin) get him running that 243 hard. Make the targets fun, IE lil fuzzy rodents, steel, clays and so forth.

Then as he grows older and bigger you could remove the Yute handle and stick a Ti take off on it. And let him fill an ark or three with it and 85 TSX's.

And if for some reason he would ever want a bigger rifle you could either A just buy him one or B find a take off in 7/08 and or 308 and let him go to burning that one.

Dober

i vote for the 243 win.

I'll admit that even though I started wrong with a 270 and knew better, my son started with one as well. In those days I didn't own a 223 or 243 so made do with what we had. Since I shot a 270 he wanted one too, or so I thought anyway. Big difference was I was a handloader and bullet caster by then. He started with cast bullets at around 1700fps after running a .22 and a 20 ga. for a while. When he started deer hunting, I think it was 14 then in Kansas, I loaded down some 130s and eventually moved up to full power loads. In a lot of ways I wish I had been able to get him a good 250 Savage back then, of course he'd probably needed to stand in line to use it.

Killing is easy,with good bullets in a good place.

An accurate rifle of modest recoil,sized in accords to the end user,will always bear that fruit................

Pegged, squarely, and with nostalgic class.

Tough to whoop on.

My 8 year old is 4'6" and weighs about 75 lbs. I went through this last year and ended up with a Remington 700 ADL youth synthetic in .243

He shot the schit outta Hornadys 58gr V-max loads all summer. Now he is shooting the schit outta 100gr loads he'll use for killing something next year.

The .243 is perfect for the little guys.

Heckola, I saw one the other day new for 399 bones in 243 and I might just by it to have another truck rig around. I'd stick it in a Ti take off and rock on.

Dober

Another vote for the .243

............He will as time goes by! Reduced loads are a good way to start.

Trouble is,there's no inherent benefit to a short barreled 270 to start with,beside it doing the kid wrong.

Not much of a Sales Pitch.................

Any one of those would work well for your purposes, in my opinion.

..........Cute! Wasn`t selling, just suggesting!

Some people couldn't raise chickens and it's sad to see such "guidance" espoused here and directed at kids who are caught in that fray....................

Something like this could work for your son for both now and the future, and someday his kid, too.

Weatherby Vanguard .243 Blue Syn. stock ***WITH BOTH YOUTH & ADULT STOCKS*** ***UNFIRED IN BOX*** ........... 429.00

.....Pale Nut Cracker!.....Sad? Sad? Such poor guidance too?..............I`m not the only one in my particular circle of friends who started at 9 or 10 years old shooting with a 30-06. Don`t tell me about such poor sad guidance with kids in the fray!!!

I happen to have had a son myself who started at 9 1/2 years old with the same `06 I started with, which he mastered very well after a few range sessions.

It would be hard to slight,that stupidity does get passed in the gene pool.

Congratulations?.........................

When I was 11/12 I started shooting a Rem 700 .30-06 and enjoyed it, killed my first deer when I was 13 with that same rifle.

Of course, there were other kids in my scout troop at the range my age who cried when they shot the .243 that was brought for us to shoot. Different kids, different sizes...some are tougher than others.

I remember one kid, who was always one of those who thought they knew everything and could do anything that the other boys could. So, he sat his pastey little body down in the chair to shoot the .30-06, after we told him that he wasn't big enough. Well, click-boom and he wound up on the floor crying his eyes out with a scope ring on his face while they called his mom to come get him.

The difference betwixt 9 and 12 is goodly sized................

For some kids sure; I'm sure I was bigger than most 9 year olds.

I imagine even you could discern the class photo of the 9yr olds,from that of the 12yr olds and probably even on your first try.

That being said,there isn't too many 40yr olds who can gun an '06 into the same level of Precision as a 223,under the assumption that their mechanical potentials were equal...which they ain't.

Hint................

When I was 12, I was about the size as you described your boy to be. I had two older brothers that got to hunt before me, and I always tagged along. At 9 years old I shot my brother model 7600 30-06 with my dads hands on my shoulders. I ended up with my own rifle, a howa 270, and they aren't a lightweight, but still kick. Get the kid shooting early, and as much as possible. If he can shoot a decent group, and cosistently gets better I think he'll be fine. If he's all over the place, and doesn't get better, he's probably intimidated. I know when I was young, I was intimated. I think one of the big things is don't scare the boy. Everyone always use to tell me, WOW, that's alot of gun for such a little guy. That always stuck in my mind when shooting. Make him think whats he's got is normal. I rather have a kid shooting as much as he can handle. that way if he does pull a marginal shot the chances for recovery are better, IN MY OPINION. To this day after shooting guns that we're very hefty in recoil, now recoil DOES NOT bother me at all. Food for thought.

Well said Mark, my feelings exactly

I think you should give him that 99 in 300 savage. The 270 is a fine cartridge, I shot several for years. There is the Recoil issue for the boy and well they can be really loud too. I am not going to tell you what to do with regard to your son, other that more young hunters get turned off of hunting because a. the rifle dose not fit well, 2. to heavy to carry, 3 Cheap junk to begin with and 4. Poorly sighted. Like 458 Lott says It really dose not cost more to go with the good stuff. Now if it were my son, I would get him a 243 if I was not a hand loader and since I do, then I would get him a 6.5 x 55 and load good 120 gr bullets. I would get him a wood stocked Tikka in such a chambering and have a smith fit it to him in such a way that it can adjusted as time goes by and he grows. I would put a good fixed 4 x scope on it, in good strong mounts. The goal here is to make it easy to carry, and to shoot. Also the DM will make for ease of loading and unloading. White tails don't take much once he gets full grown and new stock could be fitted and the old stock kept for his son when the time comes. The main thing it has to be shootable and accurate so he can hit the things he shoots at. There is no one size fits all here, the one thing the Europeans have over us in this regard is that they pay more attention to gun fit than we do. And have the smith put a good recoil pad on it.

...........I agree with you on the above!!!...........Apparently Pale Nut Cracker doesn`t see it that way and thinks its stupidity. Well as we`ve seen here, others have started out shooting a 30-06 when 9 or 10 years old! I never said or stated to start "ALL" kids out with the 30-06 and that it depends on the kid!!.........Ooooops! I put the "nut" in front of the cracker!

Maybe a tough kid could handle a 25-06 and learn to shoot good with it. Compared to a 270, their kick is pathetically weak.

I agree with you on that squeeze its not a good choice for all kids and it might not be the best for any but there are alot of kids that could shoot a 270 and still have a 270 when they move out of the house,start a family,start out in a career at the bottom of the totem pole, etc and not necessarily be able to afford a safe full of guns.
Pale nut cracker just a know it all

Not all 270s recoil the same... Weight and stock shape considerations chnage things up a great deal... But I have had a lot of kids shooting stuff for a long time and it is a rare kid that will profit from any cartridge based on the '06 case.

I had a fair sized kid shooting a 375AI once and he loved it. he still loves to shoot it and about anything else, but he is the radical exception and he was protected with double ear protection, too.
art

Im going to start both of my boys out on cartridges of the .308 family i bought Caleb a .308 put it the safe when he was born and bought Conner a 7mm-08 put it up when he was born jsut figured guns wouldnt be anny cheaper when they did get old enough to start shooting. I started with a 30-06 but i was a big kid and a 30-06 was all my dad new of at the time. However I got a sako 270 and m-700 bdl in 270 that are sweeet shooting guns any body with a frame to fit the stocks could shoot them I also have a savage in a .270 that kicks about like a mule. you got a good point about different guns it would definatly have to be the right gun

i know i am used to shooting a .22-250, .243, .25-06 here, since we in ohio can't hunt deer with a rifle so we shoot a lot of varmints.

when i bought a .270 i got a rude awakening. i have since shot many rifles .270 and larger but i remember that heavy recoil knocking me around and making me a little shy of pulling the trigger from the bench. ruger with boat paddle stock.

then i bought a howa in .270 later which didn't seem like much more than my .243.

i think it almost totally depends on the stock fit.

however i think a swede or .25-06 would be best for a kid.

have both and love them.

[img]http://[IMG]http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad35/jcdixon77/clarksbuck.jpg[/img][/img]

Decent buck, no comment on the rest of the pic (PWC needs little encouragement, nor any help), but your sig line begs the question: Why would anyone hunt with an unloaded gun? Must be a regional thing.

Never much liked anything in 270 and have shot more than a few in my almost 63 years drawin' a breath, so I'm biased against them things in general. Gimme a 25-06 and I'm fairly happy.

I ask the same queston myself there is a thread posted on here about hunting with a hot chamber there is a few that act like it is a sin far as the 270 i think it is a pretty good gun for some beginners its not like its a 338 lapua i have two that have pretty mild recoil

I apoligize if this is old news,
Check the Hodgdon '09 reload manual, magazine size. There was an article abt. Moderatly Effective (reduced) Loads for standard calibers.
Saving you the expence of upgrades later as your young hunter grows.
Put on an aftermarket stock that you can cut for shorter length of pull, saving the original for future.

Personal opinion, might develope flinch

Flinching isn't an opinion,it is a fact and therein lies the difference..................

dicksen,

I hope this is a joke,for your sake. If so...points have been awarded for the hilarity,if not...my ability to read signs continues at a 100% accuracy level. For your part,I'd be happy to bat 99%,if you could pass that Buck.

Pun intended...................

I hear good things about modest weight/length 25-06 case capacity with 75gr x's at 3700fps+ for the kids to cut their teeth on.

Probably get a hug out of the deal and stay busy with a knife too...or so the story goes..............

Just my opinion, but a .270 is a bit too much rifle for a 9-year-old. My own father, who knew a thing or two about the .270, started me first with a .22, then a .257 Roberts with which I shot a whitetail and two mule deer by age 13. It wasn't until I was in my mid-teens that I was allowed to move up to the .270.

You may be loosing some ability to read sign, or there would've been commentary on the presense of R2D2, there off to the right in the background. Kid mighta had some help from The Force?

Nice buck, regardless.

:)C3P0 took that pic

I'd let him keep it................

A .270 was my first rifle, when I was 12. I was afraid of it well into my 20's. A .270 with full power 130's is too much noise and recoil for a pre-teen.

FWIW my kids didn't start until age 12. They started out with a 22 rimfire at an early age.
I bought them each a used 30-06 to start out with because they are cheap around here.
You can start out with 100 gr bullets and IMR 4759 for a low muzzle blast, low recoil load. Progress from there.
You can work up to a Sierra 125 gr at 2900 fps or a Nosler 125 gr Ballistic Tip. Either of these will kill deer just fine.
Make sure they practice with good hearing protection or they will flinch from the noise. !Have a gunsmith cut the buttstock to fit them.
The heavier guns don't kick as much and if you hunt from a deerstand weight doesn't matter. You could carry it for them if it is to heavy. A light rifle will be hard to shoot and beat the crap out of you.
As they get older lengthen the stock and if you feel like you need to, increase the bullet weight to whatever floats your boat! YMMV
whelennut

I belive you done right by them whelen thats what my did for me and my brother we never developed any uncrontrolable flinches or anything like that and when I got older i had a gun that I could use for all of my hunting needs

Wow.

May as well go to the Goodwill get some size 14 shoes for them too and simply stuff them full of paper to "fit" and remove same as they grow.

Amazing to me,the depths some will go to start their kids off dead wrong.................

Thinking I'd not go above a 243, and that might be stretching it. I'd sooner see you get him a fast twist 223 or 22-250 so he could sling TSX's

Your such a fuggin douchebag! you need your azz wipped, it would do wonders! keep hiding behind that keyboard, you would not say half of your BS face to face with most people...

Typical little man syndrome!

BTW, how big is the lift on your truck?

I'm rather at ease in the flesh and would delight in connecting those dots for you,so as to enhance your comprehension.

Stick with what you know(whatever that may be)..............

The 270 is too much for a nine year old. Are there exceptions? Sure but it doesn't sound like the original poster's son is one.
I'm surprised this topic has garnered any debate.

Even someone who was an exception themselves at 9 should realize that doesn't carry on to many others unless maybe they only want us to think they were.

PWC- What LOP do you start with on CF for the youngun's?

12.5" seems to fill alotta shoes. Glass is as equally,if not more important and this is where the 6x42 shines yet again. It's exceedingly generous eyerelief allows the kids to gun a rifle,less hamstringing others from using same.

I'm a proponent of using a rest,whether it dirt,stumps,shooting sticks,bipob,rucksack,etc...just to keep them tasting success.

For fun,a 3-way butt bears much fruit,but the added weight is a bane for hindlegged pursuits on the little guys.................

All I can say is I started my kids with a traditional "kids gun" 22rf. I did cut the stock down to fit them, but didn't think about having something with a high quality trigger, scope, and good mechanical accuracy. They did learn to make empties, and had fun doing so, but the concept of precision never caught on. It was a vehicle that simply couldn't achieve precision with a good driver, and with someone new to fireamrs, was the wrong vehicle.

I didn't realize how much of a handicap that was until I plunked my youngest behind a 10/22 with target barrel, light trigger and good optics. He made a quantum leap in his ability to put bullets where he wanted them, and more imporantly realized that there was more to shooting than making empties as quickly as possible.

More animals are wounded by people that have guns they can't shoot, than by shooting guns with insufficient power. Giving a boy a gun that will almost be guranteed to create a flinch is just not the right way to start him out.

I'd much rather my son guns with a round he knows he has to make count, vs. a round I fear he can't place.

Would you please stop making sense? Sheesh................

LOL!

For my son I tried to cobble together a full sized 7x57 with a shortened stock. A couple of range sessions proved this was a bad idea. I bought him a Model 7 yute in 260, loaded light loads with 100 grainers. Things took a big uptick from there.

Two friends bought the youth Model 7 in 7mm-08 and both are satisfied. 120 Nosler Ballistic Tips worked.

257 Roberts or 6.5x55.

PWC- Thanks for the tips!! Jr's only 2.5yo, but it's never too early to start planning. Plus, I figure I can knock some of the 'new' off for him in the mean time...

Taking kids with you does make it a bit sweeter!


PS- The Bat Cave did the rechamber on that 223AI.

P's and Q's...

I hear good things about the 223AI.

My kids were all in tow,while wearing diapers and I've never not given great thought to doing them right. I'd not ask them to use something I wouldn't,whether it optics,arms,fisghing gear,etc.

Happiness? Your 8yr old doing his damndest to break your Loomis GLX,while you root him on..............(grin)

'7,

Hang a pic of yourself,as I always appreciate a good laugh...............

PWC- Great pic!

He's hard on riggin',which makes me proud...............(grin)

My son and daughter started in the basement with an air rifle,as little kids; they shot constantly,and even though my daughter could "hit" she gravitated to girl things...

My son "moved" to a 22 rimfire,dimensioned for him;and his first encounter with a CF was a 223 for woodchucks and range work,followed by some work with a Swift.From there it was toa Rem 700 MR in 257 Roberts,loaded with 4064 to hold blast and recoil to minimum levels.Today he likes a 270 and similar stuff.

Blast and recoil should be minimized while they build muscle memory,sight picyure,trigger control,etc.Full house 270 does not qualify for sub-teens IMHO,and small 22's and 6mm's seem ideal for the purpose.

That said,I watched a 12 year old Wyoming lad do a pretty good job on a mule deer at about 200 yards with a 30/06 with the managed recoil stuff;he had killed a 5x6 bull elk with the rifle and ammo two weeks earlier.I quizzed him....he said it kicked like his 243 and he was driving the old man broke by shooting the stuff....so the factories, it seems,have lent a hand in getting the kids started.

If my kids were learning age,7,8, or 10,they'd be a few years from a 270.

My kids all had/have RedRyders,various RWS break action air rifles,Chipmunks,10/22's,K-Hornets,223's,223AI's,224Wby,243,243AI's,25-284's,yada,yada,crazy yada.

Keep it fun and the rest falls into place............

PWC: THAT is the point...hold the interest,help them hit,make them successful.....my neices and nephews hang thier 300 yard targets in their bedrooms....proud of them!

I make sure they can shoot whatever they want,as much as they want,whenever they want and rather dig the arrangement...........

not much faster to take the fun out of things than giving a kid a rifle that doesn't fit him/her and hurts them with recoil.

that's why they give us our 20's to let us shoot magnum boomers and see how much retina we can detach and hearing we can lose. (grin)


and then our 30's to master the magnum boomers and our 40's so we can go "WTF was that alla bout?"

LRF's and good boolits,have changed alotta things.

These are the Good Old Days...............

Reminds me of my son blowing up a Loomis jig rod,during a bass tournament,hauling a 5# out of a tree

I laughed; he got the fish....and for $50,Loomis gives you another one!Most entertainment you can get for half a hundred!

I've some pretty good pics of Sister tying my 11'4" Loomis Float rod into a knot,upon Steelhead. My baby 10'6" UL Fenwick collection has been cropped,for like reason.

I just stay out of the way and watch the show............

That is very well said.....

What are you running for camera/video work?

Says the person who can't even spell dumbass correctly whilst insulting someone.

Best that way......let the show continue!

I started with a daisy BB gun in the basement at a real young age. My dad bought me a 22lr for my 7th b-day and got me shooting that like crazy. When my brother was old enough to hunt my dad bought a Mohawk 600 .243 and him and I shared that rifle. Noisy SOB but the kick is light and it helped me down my first few deer. When I hit my teen years he moved me up to the 7mm Rem Mag.

A .243 is a good way to start a kid.

I drive Canon pretty much expressly,for both stills and video. mainly the XTi,40D and 1Ds,though the 7D do intrigue with it's improved AF,as do the 1d4.

This ain't a bad frame of Brother Bill,but I've enough great stuff of him,to famous him right up................

holy chit is that a FLY swatter he's holding?

perish the thought....laffin

Here's the thing. Kids learn what they are taught. My kids were shooting BB guns, pellet guns and .22s at an early age. Bought my oldest a Red Ryder while he was in the first trimester.

But my youngest is The One. He started shooting competitive trap in the 5th Grade. I didn't tell him about recoil hurting you and he never whined. Stayed in a 20 ga. about 2 months then went to a 12 ga. Beretta 390 Trap and an SKB 85TSS Unsingle shortly thereafter (bought while I briefly had a real salary in the gun industry).

Connor shot four rounds of trap per weekend. 100 rounds of 3 dram 1 1/8th oz. loads. He was 10 years old 4 ft. 8 and 85 pounds.

Meanwhile kept him on a training regimen with a 10-22 with a 4 power scope. Once it was zeroed we NEVER shot from the bench. We shot offhand, standing barricade, kneeling, sitting and prone...all on steel @ 50 yards. Then we worked on snapshots, pivoting-mounting-shooting, 180s. Then we introduced a shot timer with a par of 1.5 secs. from buzzer to hit. He was soon in the 1.2 sec range.

Gave him the choice of any rifle I had in the battery for his first hunt. He picked a Remington Model 7 .350RM I had in for an article because it looked cool, the cartridge was bad ass, and, most importantly, it had a Leupold with a German No. 1 reticle in it just like the one in the Call of Duty game he was playing for fun.

Let him shoot it and he said "it only kicks like a 20 ga.".

Nothing came by the stand the first morning. Walking out of the woods a young doe stood up almost directly behind us in light brush. I said "Pivot and shoot the deer."

He did it in well under par time and that deer was DRT.

If you train them right and don't make them worry about recoil they WON'T be afraid of their guns.

Connor has since killed deer with .308, .223, and .22-250 with heart and shoulder shots. He's up to 6 now. After his third he said:

"I don't think caliber matters nearly as much as hitting them once in the right spot."

I told him he could probably NEVER be a gunwriter or post on this website with radical ideas like that.

And to answer the OP. Let him shoot a lot of .22 from field positions and kill lots of small game and vermin. Get him a dang .270 with a low power scope and buy him a case of Remington Managed Recoil loads. He will kill the first deer he see with no problem or pain.

P.S. I foolishly sent the Model 7 back to the factory after talking to Mule Deer about the efficacy of standard cartridges at SHOT. He pointed out to me he never said I shouldn't keep it; he's right.

Length/weight/balance are the critical areas of concern for the little guys,besides the obvious regarding boolit selection and something of modest recoil.

I see no upside to a l/a anything,for the young 'uns..............

That's an awesome photo. That and the one of your son as well.

Gonna need a museum to hang 'em all up in.

Nice "problem" to have.................

That picture of Bro Bill is awesome. I keep trying to convince the wife that we need to move down there to Paradise.

I chase alotta light and that were a nice day and a fairly splendid pic.

Am much looking forward to the pending Buck Massacre and pixels associated.....................

Great pics, as usual!

Glad you mentioned glass - the Minox 6x32's have been really good for my little ones - and yes, I happily run them too from time to time, although the Leicas still get the great majority of the work. The little 6's fit their hands, are bright and clear, and keep them from focus woes until focus becomes an asset for them.

When I would happily run their gear, they succeed and have fun - from tackle to boots to rifles to glass to saddles...

DJ

My kids drive Leica 8x20's,as their starter bino.

Zeiss 10x Classics,after they grow accordingly...............

Mine don't get to run the Classics until they're at least this big...grin.



"Custom" eyecups are a hit with him...for watchin deer behind the grandparents' house...

DJ

I give the kids free reign,over anything/everything that is of interest to them,regarding riggin'.

It's called hedging a bet and making "luck"................

It's all just stuff...

I've never run the 8x20 Leicas - never been a fan of glass that compact.

Clearly, you regard them highly. How would you rate their low light capabilities? There are times a pair in the shirt pocket would be very handy, and if they are kid friendly it would be that much better.

Thanks,

DJ

One question comes to mind. Does he have any rimfire experience?

My first shot fired was at hunter safety. My first gun used was a $40 H&R topper 20 ga. Yes it kicked like a mule, but it was inexpensive, simple, and short ranged for relative safety.

Ovet the years I shot a lot of rimfire and shotgun, but not much rifle. Recently, (late 30's now early 40's) I started back to shooting. I found it very easy to develop a flinch. Even a .243 will surpise an unsuspecting newbie.

I won't be in your shoes for several years as my Grandson was just born. Rimfire first for sure, no levers, and then probably a .204 or .223 and LOTS of practice from the bench. I found that a few hundreed rounds with the .204 did wonders for me. I also picked up a Ruger MkIII target for a new challenge plinking squirrels.

I took a newbie shooter out and gave them a recoiling rifle to shoot as they fired 2 shots it was over as fast as it got started they have never had any interest in shooting since that day,If it were me Id start them out on a 243 or 22-250 or 223 or 22 rimfire,matter of fact if it were me I might start them in this reverse order.............

The baby 8x Leica's are rather something,in the flesh...............

I realize I'm giving this thread a 3yr bump, but I just realized who Olgeezer is.

My dad had already amassed a decent O'Connor book collection (and a pile of old Outdoor Life) by the time I was old enough to start reading, and read I did. It took me two years to pay off my first center fire rifle, but on July of my 12th year, I took possession of a brand new M77 in .257 Roberts. I deliberated a long time about that purchase, but it boiled down to pretty simple logic--------------Bradford O'Connor had one at that age, so I will too!

I didn't buy my first .270 until years later.

I think that you would have to cut the stock off quite bit to begin with. His arms are not long, so he might have problems with balance.

I think that a model 7 in 243 would be a magnum for him. 270's kick quite a bit and might just help him develop a life long flinch.

I started off my nephew with a TC contender with a 20" 30/30 barrel, accurate enough for 150 yd shooting with very little recoil. My nephew killed 6 deer, 2 Texas hogs, 1 bob cat, numerous wild dogs, and the neighbors pot bellied pit during the first deer season.

Nice thing about the contenders is that they are light enough for a youngster to handle easily.

I haven't read the whole thread but Remington used to make a reduced load for the .270 that replicated the 6.8 SPC.

I'd think that load or a handload equilivent would be a dandy for a youngster...or most anyone else.

A reduced load with SR 4759 and an 85 grain TSX would sure be worth a try.

Depends on the kid.

My boys started with a 30-06 when they were 10.

And they still have them...

The oldest is turning 29 this year

Snake

If a 270 kicks, needs the stock altered, or replaced, as shouldn't. I'm trying to work with my 13 year old godson, and will proably have him shoot the 308, as it doesn't "kick" and will kill anything we're likely to encounter..

I would start a kid with a 223, and feed it TSXs for deer and whatever that's cheap for LOTS of practice. Buy a 270 when they're big enough, and when they're ready. Bet they will be better shots in the long run, and will do more shooting with a gun that's actually comfortable to shoot.

No sense in running a kid away from shooting because the Dad was trying to be macho and make them shoot a "Man's Gun" before the kid is ready.

I started out hunting with a 270 when I was 12 and absolutely loved it. I think that the rifle is everything, if you don't think your kid can handle it, put a muzzle brake on it and it won't kick at all. My rifle was without a muzzle brake for years, it was a blast to shoot.

IN terms of actual firearms that fired projectiles - rather than the metal/wood toys played with prior to firing said weapons - I started out with a Daisy BB-gun when I was 3 years old and moved up to a .22 Long Rifle rimfire at 5 years of age and then, to a .30-06 (Whitworth) when I was age 7. Marksmanship ability was honed with the BB-Gun. In any case, the .270 Winchester isn't too large for a youngster (pre-teen).

[/quote]IN terms of actual firearms that fired projectiles - rather than the metal/wood toys played with prior to firing said weapons - I started out with a Daisy BB-gun when I was 3 years old and moved up to a .22 Long Rifle rimfire at 5 years of age and then, to a .30-06 (Whitworth) when I was age 7. Marksmanship ability was honed with the BB-Gun. In any case, the .270 Winchester isn't too large for a youngster (pre-teen).

Bull. There aren't many pre teens that are going to enjoy/succeed with a .270.

A BB gun > 22LR > 223 > 243 path is a much better route.

There's no upside to starting them out with something they don't enjoy and shoot well, and a lot of downside if they find it painful and turn away from the sport.

IN terms of actual firearms that fired projectiles - rather than the metal/wood toys played with prior to firing said weapons - I started out with a Daisy BB-gun when I was 3 years old and moved up to a .22 Long Rifle rimfire at 5 years of age and then, to a .30-06 (Whitworth) when I was age 7. Marksmanship ability was honed with the BB-Gun. In any case, the .270 Winchester isn't too large for a youngster (pre-teen).

Bull. There aren't many pre teens that are going to enjoy/succeed with a .270.

A BB gun > 22LR > 223 > 243 path is a much better route.

There's no upside to starting them out with something they don't enjoy and shoot well, and a lot of downside if they find it painful and turn away from the sport.[/quote]

You took my comment way out of context. I offer the idea of reading it again and thereby you might come back into the context in which it was written. Or, to explain the writing for you, nothing that I wrote said anything about starting a pre-teen with a .270 Winchester. Thank you.

No, I cut and pasted your entire comment so nothing would be taken out of context.

I offer you exact words: "In any case, the .270 Winchester isn't too large for a youngster (pre-teen). And they're still bull.

Tex:

Again, you're falling victim to the same thing that left-win media fails victim to - the notorious use of "sound bites". Either that, or your reading comprehension is flawed. Possibly it's both.

Nevertheless, if you read my entire post and consider the context it's written in, you'll easily determine that I never ever said that starting out a pre-teen [or any shooter, for that matter] with a .270 Winchester is the appropriate thing to do.

Again, you should go back through and read it carefully and possibly you'll then understand or at least maybe somewhat comprehend what was written.

In closing, I will mention that a .270 Winchester is certainly not too large for a pre-teen to handle. But, that does not mean that a pre-teen or any other novice shooter should start with that caliber.

Thanks again.

Troll:

No "sound bites" were used. And I never said that you said you should start them with a .270.

I just quoted your bullchit statement that a .270 isn't too large for a pre-teen.

Ingwe's too kind in his assessment of you. GFY.

Thank you for demonstrating your social grace. Apparently you never had the privilege nor the pleasure of shooting high-powered rifles at big-game when you were still a lad. That's too bad. I sympathize with you. A lot of young kids never get that chance, especially nowadays. It's sad.

Troll, You're guessing again, and, as per usual, you're 180* from correct.

Thanks for the laughs. And GFY.

I haven't waded through the whole thing but I agree with some of the first posts that it depends on the boy. I recently outfitted my buddies son with a Pre 64 in .280 Rem that weighed in under 8 lbs all up. It is too big for him to hunt with right now but not too big for him to learn to shoot.

I've seen too many kids shooting man sized rifles in man sized cartridges and hard kicking hand guns and smiling thru the pain 'cause that's what Daddy wants..... "come on boy, man up and shoot that .44mag. You ain't a sissy are you?..."
IMHO, there isn't a 7 or 8yo kid that can shoot a .280/270/30-06 free hand or off of a bench and enjoy it. In fact, quite a few adults wouldn't relish the task if they don't shoot regularly.

I think a .243 or .260 would be a better choice. You dont want the kid have a bad experience with his first time with a high powered rifle.