Good Afternoon to all,

Looking at buying a Sako 85, probably a Hunter, possibly a Finnlight and putting a McM Edge on it. Not looking to create a Campfire Civil War over the two cartridges, but I would appreciate your knowledge. I have never owned a WSM chambered rifle, but have used and reload for .350 Rem Mag and 7mm Rem Mag. Why one over the other? Should I just flip a coin?

Thanks,
G2

The critters will never know the difference and in realiztic hunting conditions and ranges you won't either. 300 ain mag ammo can be a bit cheaper at times then the 300 WSM though. Flip a coin if you want but for some reason I would go with the WSM.

I'd choose the .300WM every time.
Just didn't care for the WSM's I have had and the longer cartridge has more horsepower and greater latitude for seating bullets long.

I have had both, kept the WSM because my shoulder could tell it was a little more gentle. However it is still faster than an 06 and in shorter action rifles.

Virtually the same. I think the WM is a better choice if: you prefer a larger (not by much) selection of factory ammo, if you reload (which may be contradictory, but it's easier to seat longer bullets) like a little heavier rifle, a little cheaper factory ammo, want a little more top end.

The WSM is a better choice if you want something a little lighter, a little less recoil, like short actions.

For all practical intents they are equal. The WM may be a touch more accurate. The critters will not know and they are both FABULOUS rounds!! The coin flip is a no lose proposition. My $.02 USD

Have had both and kept the Long Winny. 2 in fact. I can't tell any recoil difference in like rifles. When they're run like for like, the recoil advantage is non-existant. I think you can run a little extra gas behind the Winny over the whizzum and the Winny feeds better to me.

Nothing wrong with the whizzums, but I can't find the love for 'em over the longer versions. Only advantage to be argued is the shorter bolt throw and as far as I'm concerned that advantage is mostly imagined. I still have my 7 Whizzum, but if I were building it again, it would be a long mag. as well.

Haven't shot the WSM much but in a test of two it kicked more than my WM due to a lighter weight rifle. Differences were not that big.

You can get WM ammo in most places in the world that can support a larger sporting goods store, not so with the WSM.

And the WSM is ugly too.

I let my .300 WSM go because it was in a CZ Model 3 and was too heavy for a short magnum rifle. It weighed the same as my .300 Wby and more than my .300 WM. However, I like the cartridge and I intend to acquire another .300 WSM in a light rifle--just can't decide whether to do a build or take a chance on a Montana.

I purchased a Sako 85 Finnlight in 300 WSM in Nov '09. I took the gun apart and weighed its components, which is habit on a fresh purchase. This rifle has the new Dura Touch stock and is very nice. The stock weighs 29 ounces. To me that's about 4 ounces close-enough to keep me from paying nearly $600 for an Edge. I would prefer my stocks to be in the 20 ounce range. The Edge is guaranteed to be in the 25-28 ounce range, I think.

The gun is one hole accurate with 2 out of 5 loads developed in varying bullet weights. THe recoil is negligable unless you have sat at the bench running full power 180gr load tests thru it for several hours.

I have mounted the Swarovski 3-10x 42mm atop Talley bases and Q.D. rings. The package weighs 7.2 lbs magazine loaded & ready to hunt.

Wonderful, wonderful shooting iron.

I don't own a WSM but I have shot one and custom loaded the ammo for another which also entailed shooting the gun.
The first was when I helped a kid (About 23, bu I'm 72 so he's a kid. )get his new M70 Classic sighted in. After we got finished getting him set up, ai got to shoot a few targets to get a feel for the rifle. I liked it.
On the one I did the load work up on, I had the gun for a couple of week while I worked up the hunting load my ex-son-in-law wanted to use in his M70 Classic Featherweight. I did like that gun very much and probably would buy one if the price was right although with 4 rifles in .300 Win. mag., I really have no need. Thre are Ruger #1's and the other a Winchester M70 with 26" barrel and it's a real pisscutter. It shoots 200 gr. bullets a hair past 2900 FPS and stays in less than .75" at 100 yards. I think ammo for the .300 win. mag. would be easier to find in out of the way stores than for the WSM but I've never run into that problem. Both rounds are good, but I think that if you want to use bullets in the 200 to 220 gr. range for any reason, the the Winchester magnum would be the way to go. Those bullets would, I'm thinking, intrude too far into the podwer area of a WSM round. Regardless, it's your choice. Both are good.
Paul B.

The 300 Winchester Magnum wins hands down in my book. Never quite understood the draw of the WSM - in a rifle of that class of recoil, I want it to weigh about 8 3/4#. The point of the WSMs is weight savings by allowing a shorter magazine.

The WM affords you a bit more steam, especially w/ heavier bullets, is superbly accurate in the several I've owned (currently only have one, and it's tremendous), ammunition is plentiful. I also like the belt, despite the current fad against it.

I think the biggest difference for practical hunting will be how the rifle fits you and your style of hunting. The 300 Win Mag version will probably be fairly long for most hunting purposes other than open country. In open country it will be superior to the WSM, especially with heavier bullets and longer barrel. The 300 WSM version should be more compact and lighter to carry. It will also swing a bit better if you do hunt in situations that require that kind of shooting.

If it were me, I'd probably go with the WSM because I hunt a mixture of timber for elk and plains/canyons for deer. Plenty of zip for my personal 400 yard limit and plenty handy enough for the timber.

How much shorter is a WSM rifle really?
Given equal length barrels (to get equal ballistic performance) the WSM will be 1/2" shorter and 2 oz's lighter.

Probably .5"...

Dober

..................Gramps2...........Had a 300 Win for 30+ years chambered in a 10 lb + Wby Vanguard with scope. Needless to say, I loved the 300 Win Mag cartridge and still do. However, 3+ years ago, I switched to a 300 WSM because I wanted a lighter and more compact sized OAL rifle n/a in a 300 Win.

As stated in the 49th Edition Lyman Manual under the 300 WSM summary, the 300 WSM averages 30 to 50 fps behind the 300 Win while using 8% to 10% less powder. Both using 24" barrels in Lyman`s data.

So as far as any hunting is concerned and given the same game and shooting distances, neither one will have any advantage over the other. And btw, don`t believe the earlier reports (after the 300 WSM was first intro`d), that heavier 200 gr bullets were losing velocity performances to the 300 Win due to the smaller powder capacity of the 300 WSM case. From a 24" or 26" tube, a 300 WSM can still move a 200 grainer at a MV of 2900 + fps. My personal preference is to have a non-belted cartridge.

Your cartridge decision should boil down to the rifle itself and your individual rifle preferences for weight, feel, rifle length, handling; etc and etc!

Good luck!

If buying a Sako 85 I would get the WSM. It should come in about a 1/2lb lighter than the Win Mag version.

But then again I'm biased.

Tweedledee(85) and Tweedledum(A7) at the range this afternoon on my way home from work.
The A7 goes 7lbs 7ozs with scope, 3 rounds and sling.
The 85 goes 8lbs 12ozs ready to rip.
Both shoot like fiends. Winchester WSM brass is simply amazing, it is heavy duty long lasting stuff. I'm shooting 175/180's at 2950-3000fps.

I'd have to toss a coin if going with 180 grain or lighter bullets, definately WinMag if going heavier.

I have both - 300WM in a Sako m75ss rifle and the 300WSM in a Sako m75 Greywolf. I have had my 300WM since 1997. Love the caliber. I recently sold the 300WSM to a friend in our moose hunting group.

Both great calibers. As mentioned, if you want to shoot larger than 180gr bullets in factory ammo- go 300WM for sure.

As for reloads, my 300WM shoots a bit faster and tighter groups (but who cares for diiference in under 05" groupings) than the 300WSM both in 180gr Accubonds. You will get more powder into the 300WM case. IMO the 180gr bullet is "THE BULLET" for both the 300WM and 300WSM.

If you want a short action, and bit lighter rifle go 300WSM in the Finnlight model.

Cant beat those Sako rifles.

i've owned and killed deer and elk with both. i couldn't tell the difference between the two. both are fine cartridges, so the choice would likely be in the rifle itself. if i had to pick one, and was hunting out west most of the time, i'd select the win mag. if i was an eastern deer hunter who went west once every 4 years, i'd select the wsm. ymmv.

I guess they do have equal barrel lengths. Seems like 26 inch barrels are more en vogue with most manufacturers with the standard magnums. Bad assumption.

I'd get the WM hands down. I like having options and the WM gives them to you. Especially since you reload. The weight saving isn't a big deal unless you heading up into the mountains.

Not to mention if you shoot paper it will be more comfortable.

Tom

This is very true. If choosing between 2 basically identical rifles with the only difference being the 300WM and 300WSM chamberings, I'd say the slight difference in weight and length is not worth giving up the slight advantage of the longer cartridge. Same with the 308 vs 30-06.

Where the shorter cartridges shine is in the lighter rifles designed around them. Remintgon 7's, Kimbers, etc.

Sam,
Until your post I had not realized the weight difference between the two Sako models, that's good to know.

I own a Rem. 700, 24" bbl., SPS SS in 300WSM. This rifle is equipped with a muzzle brake to mitigate the recoil. I load 180gr. Accubonds with 65.5gr. of IMR4831. This rifle/handload combination is very recoil friendly and will shoot .5" groups all day if I do my part. I took this rifle to RSA last yr. on a plains game hunt and took a Kudu, Gemsbok, Warthog, Impala and a good Burchells Zebra with one shot each. The recoil is sufficient enuf that I am currently practicing shooting uphill/downhill angles for an upcoming Auodad hunt in TX next Feb. with this rifle. I cannot comment on a 300 WM as I have never owned one. I have shot the 300 WM and do consider it to be an adequate cartridge for most game animals. I believe this will be a personal rather than a performance choice of yours only. Good luck!

Years back I built a 300 Win Mag on a M70 H&H action as a rough country elk rifle with a 24" barrel, and "wildcatted" the cartridge by throating to take advantage of the H&H length magazine.The kreiger barrel did an easy 3150 with 180 gr bullets; and right on 3000 fps with 200 gr Partitions. It was a great rifle that weighed a shade over 8 pounds all up.I used it all over the west an many hunts.

I've had others as well.So I like the 300 Win mag but prefer less recoil these days.

I've never hunted with a 300 WSM but have owned and loaded for a few; I like it with bullets up to 180 gr's and notice it is a bit more manageable than the 300WM (it burns less powder and is not as fast),is very flexible and accurate,and if an action feeds and functions well I think it's a great cartridge.

What I'd hunt with one I'd hunt with the other;can't imagine there would be a hell of a lot of difference from a practical standpoint. If a guy has one he does not need the other,unless he is a 300 mag loony who likes to pick nits.

Owned 2 300WSMs. One was a pure factory gun that was picked up when they first hit the market. Shot patterns instead of groups but did manage 1 MOW(minute of whitetail) shot on an unsuspecting doe at about 150yds. Kicked like a friggin POed mule. Sold it. Purchased another 300WSM in the form of a Savage12BVSS. Shot lights out and although it weighed a ton, still produced a very sharp punch in the recoil dept. Only 300WM I have experience with is an old Mod 70 that i used to sight in for my brother in law. That rifle was easy to shoot. Had some recoil but was more of a good firm push. And I prefer that over an abrupt hard "slap" any day. Any who, Id go WSM just because I dont care for belted cartridges. JMO

Beltless is much gooder !!

I shot a 300 Win Mag for years in a SS Remmy 700. It was accurate and hard hitting and I really liked it. I wanted to use it a bunch and sort of "one rifle man" it, so I used it for everything - even calling coyotes. While I was never undergunned, it did kick a little.

One day, while contemplating the halves of a coyote I had just called in, I asked myself, "Why are you putting up with all this recoil?"

I started shooting 223's and 243's and 270's and 25-06's and 7-08's and enjoying it a lot more and killed stuff just as dead.

Then I got a chance (which fell through later) to go hunt big bear country, and used it as an excuse to get another 30 cal thumper.

I did the analysis you are doing, and went 300 WSM strictly because it was available in a Kimber Montana.

With Montanas all over the place at $800-900, the WSM is a strong first choice IMHO because of the rifle in which it is packaged.

My 300 WSM Montana kicks way less than my old 300 Winnie - mainly due to stock design and stock quality, yet it is lighter and so nice to carry when hunting in country for which such a cartridge is appropriate.

I'm not interesting in carrying a rifle heavy enough to make a Winnie fun to shoot, and the recoil taming characteristics of a Montana really shine in a 300 WSM.

DJ

That hits the nail on the head.

Also, fits my habits of liking to quickly load another round while watching and waiting to see if the game will try to get up. I work the bolt with my rfile to the shoulder and don't have to move my face on a short action. LimbSaver pads also help on a lightweight.

i own 2 300wsm's and would never think about switching to a wm.

StrayDog, the larger scope, 'heavy' Optilocks, and steel magazine/bottom metal add a fair amount extra weight to my 85. I have Talley's and a fixed 6x on the A7 so that helps lower weight.
I bet if a guy setup an 85 Finnlight with a lightweight scope and rings you'd be pretty close to the weight of my A7.

Should add that like Kimber, Sako has a specific action sized just for the WSM cartridges.

I would start by handling all the rifles chambered for those two cartridges.

I would then pick the rifle I liked the best. Only personal experience and preference can choose the one that is best for you.

The ballistic differences between the two is neglible to say the least.

I have owned and sold both cartridges in different rifle variations. The 300 WSM in CZ Model 3 was sold to a friend who loves it and will never get rid of it. Fantastic rifle. I have first right of refusal IF he would ever sell it.

For 300 Win Mag, I had a Whitworth that was sold to a collector, and a rem 700, and Sendero left me uninspired and went down the road.

Thanks to all who contributed a great deal of helpful information in regards to my decision between .300WM vs .300WSM.
I have pretty much decided on the WSM, but I do have one last question. Have any of you who own a Sako 85 in a WSM caliber had any feeding problems with the WSM cartridge? I have Sako's in .243 Win, .308 Win, and 7mm Rem Mag that feed and eject slick as glass. Will the WSM rounds do the same?

Again, thanks to all,

G2

Gramps, I don't think the 85 WSM will give you any issues. If you work the bolt with any sort of urgency it cycles rounds very well. However you can make it feed a little rougher if you work the bolt slowly.

I had an issue with the magazine spring in my 85(spring didn't quite have enough 'push') but it was a relatively easy fix and didn't have anything to do with the WSM case geometry.

I have four 300WSM dummy rounds(seated bullet/no primer) I could send you to try out in the gunshop, the guys behind the counter shouldn't have a problem.

if you want to shoot 200gr or bigger, get the win mag. if you can be satisfied with 180gr bullets (and remember, that weight bullet has killed everything in north america many times over), then i'd say get the wsm. when both are shooting 180's, there really isn't that much difference.

Curious hotsoup but what in your experience with 200's in the WSM would lead you to go WM over the WSM for the 200's?

Thx
Dober

Dober, I don't think there's enough room in fatboy for powder and 200's.....(grin)

I've got a WSM headed my way via GA Precision for T&E.(new prototype hunting rifle) Cant wait to get my mits on it!!

Sweet, I wanna check it out!

A 300WSM Pat?

Rumor has it, course I was told that the 338 WSM couldn't handle the 250's either but Fat Bastard handles the SMK's just fine..

Pat what twist on the WSM and what cal? Fat or skinny?


Dober

I like the fat cartridge! It feeds and shoots fine in my Kimber, don't see any need for the belted cartridge. I have been shooting 180's but want to try some 200's. Cases last forever.

All I know right now is its a .300WSM....Sam, I'll be picking your brain on load data when it gets here.

Still gotta choose a scope for it...

Cool, what bullet do you have in mind? I see they make a 185 Scenar, that would be fairly wicked!

I've got a few of those laying around....like to try some 180gr accubonds and 180 sciroccos..

My new GAP 300 WSM is finished - it should be shipping on Friday. I can't wait, its been a long 9 months!!!