I understand it takes a long action so why not just a .280 or .270 instead?

Why use a 280 or 270, why not a 270 Weatherby or 7mm RM?


I run several 223 in short actions, but the would handle a 22/250 or 220 Swift.


Going out on a limb here but sometimes enough is enough and less is often times more.

Because I didn't want a .280 and already had a .270 when I had my 7x57 built. Not that I needed a reason. Besides, I'm pretty sure my 7x57 will tip over anything I decide to shoot with it. And there's something nostalgic, one might say classic, about the 7x57. Something that in my opinion the .280 lacks.

I don't like it - I love it!


For me, the 7x57 was Great Grandad's cartridge. And Grandad's. And Dad's. All the animals on all the walls in all of their homes fell to that cartridge. I didn't start out with one, but once I got one... I understood.

There are rumors of certain strains of Gun-Loony sickness that will completely take-over a guy: 1911 sickness, Savage 99 sickness, Pre-64 M70 sickness, et al. Not everyone is susceptible to a sickness, but once you're bitten - it's all over. The 7x57 can definitely be a sickness.

I'm sure the animals couldn't tell the difference between a 223 and 458 Lott if I were able to shoot them all in the ear. Even behind the shoulder, there's not enough difference in effect to truly justify having more than a couple of cartidges: 1 tiny, 1 huge. Trying to pick between 2 cartridges that are adjacent on the cartridge continuum is foolish: witness the ".270 vs. .30-'06" threads...

So, get whatever you like. But if you try a 7x57, you've been forewarned!

FC

I have one in the shop because my wife is going to shoot it, just a little less than the 270/280.

Already own a .280, but I'd still buy a 7x57. In fact, there is not much in 7mm that I would not own like 7RM,7-08,7SAUM, etc. IMHO, nothing not to like about .284 cals.

As a rifle nut, 7x57 is just something you have to own. YMMV.

CLB

Scott hits the essence of it.....some like just enough, but no more.

In general I've chosen a 270 or 280 (and often a 7 mag) on a 30/06-length action,but as I understand it,at first the 7x57 was made by Mauser on "intermediate-length" Mauser actions designed specifically for the cartridge;and other wonderful stuff like small ring G33/40 and VZ33 actions.

But these dry up,a guy is lucky to have them,and actions morphed into 30/06 which is what is available to most of us,so lots of 7x57's wound up on 30/06 actions.Neither here nor there really as they work well,and differences are trifling.

If you feel you need the additional velocity of the 270 or 280 it's there if you want it;but given that most BG falls this side of 300 yards,the 7x57 does just fine,and I have seen it kill considerably further.

The 7x57 is an extremely high performance cartridge.

It achieves this by providing a good trajectory, uses bullets of superior performance for the majority of game hunted, demonstes penetration levels out of proportion to its paper ballistics and is one of the easiest to shoot, low recoiling cartridges with moderate muzzle blast that can be put into a lightweight mountain or plains rifle configuration.

Now if you bed it into a nice chunk of walnut, add a buffalo horn forend tip, red rubber recoil pad, some express sights to help contribute to upfront balance and a the now mandatory barrel band sling swivel and it has no peer for coolness.

No .270 or .280 can match that, and worse still, no rifle manufacturer has the marketing skills to put it all together. They just don't have the manufacturing capability to meet the demand that would be created.

There are just so many Corvettes and trophy wives a seasoned hunter can use, but a nice 7x57, that is something else.

JW

I've got a 270, 280, 6mm, 243, 257AI, 25AKI, and a herd of 30 calibers in the safe. I also have stuff on both ends of this list. However, the 7X57 usually gets the nod. It just plain works well.

I'm a big fan!! I have a Remington Classic that's taken around 15 deer. I have a lot of rifles to choose from so it doesn't go every year. I have to give the newbies their chance! LOL!

I have to second what the members are saying about the 7x57. It has its own magic that can't be reduced to numbers. I've been through 3 of them and settled with my CZ FS. It is fun to carry and shoot and every kill has been clean. And it has a little class. Mine has been easy to reload for as well. It loves 4350 behind 139 Hornadys. I have a couple of new loads with H414 that I hope to try Friday if it's not pouring down rain.

"Who likes the 7x57?"

Apparently a lot of folks, given the quantity and popularity of 7x57 threads here on the 'Fire.

Nothing compares to the 7x57. Nothing. Not a 280 or a 270.

It's like what has been said of the Jeep: "It's a Jeep thing, you wouldn't understand." My vehicle 'thing' is for my Suburbans, but that's another story.

As an aside, I shot a big-ol' tom turkey last night (with a 12 gauge, not a 7x57).

The 7x57 is a classic, and for me there need be no other reason. The fact remains that it is very capable as a hunting round so nothing is lost there. Many in North America decry any cartridge not from this continent, and miss out on a great opportunity.

Randy

I don't disagree, the 7 x 57 is interesting as a "gives" more for less cartridge. The .257 Roberts got me thinking about it.

257 being 7x57 baby brother. I am fond of both
Randy

Jimmy,

Take a look at that thread going on now "7x57 Zastava" you'll see why you need a 7x57.

The 7x57 is my second favorite caliber, next to the 257 Roberts.
It's kinda like riding a Harley, if I have to explain it, you wouldn't understand. :-)

Actually, the 7x57 doesn't require a long action. It fits in what might be called a mid-length action, with a 3.1" magazine. There aren't many of these around, but those that exist are pretty classy, such as many kinds of small-ring Mausers the "short" Montana 1999. Which is why I had my 7x57 built on a Montana 1999 action.

It also fits nicely in a really short action, the Ruger No. 1.

Truth be known, I am a .280 Rem fan, but I am always on the look out for a nice 7x57. I think if I ever found one, I would probably not buy another rifle. I have owned several different .284 cal rifles, but a 7x57 has always eluded me.

The other cartridge that's a leader in the more-for-less category is the 6.5x55. Gotta love 'em both. I've taken quite a few deer with both at ranges from 30 to 200+ yards and excellent is the only word to describe them. Getting my new/old 257 Roberts tuned up for deer season and looking forward to seeing how it performs.

serious question - who hunts with a 7x57 and does not reload (ie. uses only factory fodder)? i have repeatedly read about the "slow" factory offerings due to the availability (and use) of older rifles.

Nothing against the 7x57, but if I get another 7mm it will be a 7mm-08 in a short action (most likely option) or a .280 Rem in a long action.

In the meantime, my Rem Mag will do...

Aside from the lack of factory ammo, what's not to like. Super effective on the business end, super mild on the shooter end. Shoots the full range of .284 bullets effectively, including the larger ones. Efficient and effective, been around forever. It totally deserves a revival. Unfortunately it falls between the 7-08 and 280. A true classic. I love the quote from the Nosler manual "The 7X57 is the archetype for modern rounds" well stated!! Wish it was chambered in a modern rifle these days.

In a Mauser, this cartridge is my pick of the litter in smaller bores. The .308 isn't too shabby either.

Terry

This is and will continue to be one of the all time greats and while it canot be reduced to numbers I think that for me going out in the field with a 7x57 cartridge that has held up for 118 years in a 98 actioned rifle that has been the touchstone for gunmakers for 112years and my own nearly another 60 gives me 290year experience to call on.

The 7x57 is the one c/f rifle cartridge I would never be without and my custom 1908 DWM loves the 160gn woodleigh over 46gn H4350 for 2700fps and up to any task I might ask of it. A fast load of 3237fps for the GS HV bullet over 51gn BL-C2 is a nice adition to its repetoir.

Von Gruff.

I recently picked up a Mexican small ring Mauser in this caliber. Got it for $125.00. The stock has beautiful color and grain, but it is a Monte Carlo, so I will want to have it tapped for a scope. I shot it with the open sights, and it shoots great, but my face has to be way down on the stock to line up the sights. Still, I have loved this caliber for a long time. I also love the 6.5X55, but the history of San Juan Hill and the Rough Riders getting chewed up with those 7mm Mausers still holds my interest. It was because of those Mausers that the great 30-06 came to be. At the time it was first fielded, it was like having a laser to vanquish your enemies with. It is an excellent round for most of the hunting that I do.

For me, �It's a Mauser cartridge thing, you wouldn't understand.�
Five years ago I bought a #1 in a .257 Roberts. Now I have a 7x57, a 8x57, and a 9.3x62. I'm looking for a for a 9.3x57 or maybe a 6.5x55 or ...

When my son first started hunting with his Ruger I bought 80 rds of Hornady 139 gr BT Interlocks to shoot for a while and save the brass. He shot 3 does with the factory loads from about 60 yds out to just over 100. Two went 30 or 40 yds and the other dropped. One about 110 to 120 lbs was facing and he put the round between her shoulder and neck. We found it up against the opposite side femur when cutting up the deer. Nice expansion, no core separation, just a flat spot on the mushroom where it butted the bone. No idea the velocity but they kill deer.

Steelhead has it down pat.

What a great cartridge. Hunt with one and you will not need to look any farther. But if you love hunting and shooting, you have to give other cartridges a try, but you will be back!

hotsoup,

A couple of years ago I bought several brands of 7x57 and 7mm-08 factory ammo at a local store and shot them in a pair of rifles that had the same barrel length. Brands were Federal, Winchester and Remington. The average difference in muzzle velocity was about 100 fps, and less than that in some loadings. I doubt anybody would ever be able to tell the difference in the field.

Well, except for the fact that Federal still offers a 175-grain load in the 7x57.

I have a 280 and a 7x57 and I would take the 7x57 over the other anytime.
It get the job done without a lot of worry.

JB - The best part of that Federal load....ROUND NOSE BULLETS! My M70 Fwt love's em. It will not shoot 140 or 145 gr factory fodder worth a #$%^ but it sure will shoot those 175gr round nose.

Rob

i just got 4 box's of 175 gr. factory winchester rn's.

Somebody really should find the John Jobson article from Sports Afield, Aug. 1973 and post it. Its about the 7x57.

I painted myself into a corner about 15 years ago when after selling a Featherweight in the coveted Ingwe Special 7mm Mauser caliber, I missed it so much that when a couple of Rigby's came up I grabbed them both.

The .275 remains in the stable and I can't resist its charm though I believe there are better made rifles than my example. It is a very good shooter though, MOA is very ho hum with it.

JW

When I replace the barrel on my M700 .270, it's going to become a 7x57. I have always wanted a rifle in that cartridge and that would be a good rifle to put it in. It's amazing how that old cartridge hangs on in spite of all the newer faster rounds.

I like the 7x57!



Ingwe

What's not to like about the 7X57?

I was going to post the 'this thread is worthless without pics' picture, but ingwe saved the day. I already have a .257 Roberts and .300 H&H, so as far as classy goes, the 7x57 will probably be the next addition to my safe.

That would be a great classic 3 pack!!!

Yeah, it is an effective round! and I especially love it in a Model 70 Featherweight..

it can even work with light loads..



This 210 pound blacktail was taken with a load of 28 grains of SR 4759 and a 115 grain Speer HP ( according to my notes).....heart shot...




not much in the recoil dept either.. especially with this load...

It can be pretty accurate also...

Mine never liked any of the lighter bullets I tried in it except 150 gr. NPTs
It loved the 175 gr in anything, so that is mostly what it got, till the 160TSX came out...




It kills whitetails too....



Ingwe

Well, certainly Jack O'Connor thought highly of "the little 7mm." I recently came across a 1974 Gun Digest article by O'Connor entailing the history of and his experience with the 7x57.

He mentioned his first purchase in 1934 of a rifle in that caliber, a Mauser 98 actioned custom by gunsmith Bill Sukalle of Tucson with stockwork by Adolph Minar. O'Connor had a Noske 4x fieldscope mounted in a Noske sidemount and the rifle weighted in at under 8 pounds. He regretted trading off that "lovely little" rifle in 1940 and mentioned praise for the cartridge from hunters such as his wife Eleanor, W.D.M. Bell, Capt. Jim Corbett and Prince Abdorreza of Iran.

This statement from O'Connor says it all. "I think I've seen more game killed with fewer shots from this modest little cartridge than any other." High praise indeed!

Ingwe, I like the pic w the whitetails. That's a good frame and it looks like you had a heck of a good day!

Yes, I like it too. The dog seems very pleased with himself!

John

Thanks guys..it WAS a good morning. My wife and I only had the one morning to hunt together that fall and things werent looking too good till those two dudes showed up..two bang flops quicker than it takes to tell it!
She shot one with her '06 and I shot one with the 7x57.....
Ingwe

Nice pics Ingwe, the buck to your left is a good one!

Good pics Ingwe.

I am a huge fan of the 7x57.


ddj

Thanks Sammo...he just showed up in the wrong place at the wrong time..but the odd thing the pic barely shows is that he outweighed the other almost 2 to 1...Im no lightweight at #270 so that buck is no slouch in comparison....but they both tasted good!!!

ingwe

The 7x57 works in Africa too....!


On all creatures....Great...



And small



Ingwe

Ingwe: Nice bucks,nice rifle and nice dog! The B&W looks like a photo I'd expect to see in an O'Connor article

Ingwe, I was comparing the deer bodysize as well. Wouldn't have guessed that much difference but it is alot bigger.
Look at the size of the noggin's, the big deer is a toad!



Bob, Ingwe sure has stash of great pics!

IngweDog knows the deal.....(grin)

maybe one day I will stumble across a 7 x 57

Ingwe,

That's a real nice B&W Photo you have there. Classic cartridge and classic buck.

CLB

Rob,

As a northern deer, blackie, moose hunter, the combination is all anyone would ever need...I'm sure you already know that.

CLB

There was an old saying back on the farm..."The cream always rises to the top." This thread is evidence of that.

Where else but the fire can the 7x57 get so much respect.

I don't dislike it. I just don't get dizzy and lightheaded when I see one.

Add me to the long list of 7X57 fanatics. Just got my newest back from the smith being barreled. First dozen or so rounds out of it in horrible winds showed great promise. Just need to get back to the range with it soon! Then, it is off to McMillan to get it fitted and bedded into an Echols Legend stock. Can't wait!

I'll get pics up of two beauties in the next couple of days. It will never come back as a commonly offered cartridge. Ruger seems to be the only one with a willingness to dabble with some of the old classics.

Sports Afield, August 1973, John Jobson - The 7/57: The Welterweight Rifle With the Heavyweight Punch

Your wish is my command. The only problem is I have the article scanned to a pdf file and do not know how to post it.

If I sent the file to you can you post it or anyone else on the fire?

i'd like to read it !

John, but what if Browning chambered the X bolt rifle in it!

I figure we are all a bit eccentric, all you have to do is post on the optics forum to verify this fact... I don't like the .243 but like the .257 which is essentially the same thing, don't know that I would want a 7-08 but thinking about it I like the idea of the 7x57...again no logic whatsoever.

If Browning chambered a rifle for it I'd buy a Savage....

Very good work. I'm sure someone can assist with the posting phase.

PM your e-mail address and I will send it too you.

Why would I want a 7x57 when I can have either a 7-08 or a 280 or a 280AI?

7x57 is neither fish nor fowl; too long tofit a short action well, too short to fit a long action well..........it works after a fashion in either, depending on action manufacturer, but offers nothing others don't do better.............unless you're into thinking you're Karamojo Bell.

MM

In the hands of anyone who has owned one.

Randy

Count me in. Gentry made this one, but so far it's taken just one Wyoming pronghorn. Stinks living in the shotgun zone in MI!

Send me a PM with e-mail address. Also, if interested, I have a 1948 Outdoor Life article on the 7x57 by O'Connor.

OK, here's the article. You may have to zoom a little to be able to read it easily (if your eyes are like mine). Saved the attachment from roundoak as .pdf in mydocuments. Did saveas in .jpeg to resave in uploadable format. Uploaded to photobucket then down to campfire. Didn't know if it would work or not.

Mickey

Thank you for posting that article. I remember it well. That article, along with the writings of Jack O'Connor, convinced me that I simply had to have a 7x57. And eventually I aquired (in 1979 or '80 -can't remember exactly now) a M77 tang safety. It has been a great rifle over the years and I have had some memorable hunts with it and have taken some of the best of my (modest) trophies with it. I keep toying with the idea of having the stock trimmed and re-checkered and refinished but then I look at it and see all the old scratches and scars and remember the hunts and the places and the people I shared hunts with and the idea of messing with it fades away. Also afraid I might mess with the good luck it has brought me.

As for the 7x57 cartridge itself, there is little to say that hasn't been said already. It just plain works. No muss, no fuss, 175 grain, 160 grain, 140 grain. Doesn't even matter much. It just works. And the nostalgia and cool factor...

And here's the one by O'Connor.....

I have a 7x57 on a Type 99 Arisaka action, and I have it a long time. Over the years I bought and sold a lot of rifles, but the rifles that have been good to me I hang onto. It works well on those "medium" actions that were mentioned. .308 cased cartridges are difficult to get to feed properly and you do not have to mill the receiver as with the longer cased cartridges. I am lucky with the barrel I used (surplus 7x57 Mauser carbine)as it shoots equally well with 140 Gr. or 175 Gr. bullets. I always keep a box loaded up just in case I am heading into rough cover where I need a short fast handling gun.

I have a 7x57 in a Remington 700 Mountain rifle, that's about as modern as it gets. I bagged a nice blacktail with it just last season at 125 yards, one 139 grain Hornady through and through and the steaks are in the freezer. I love the 7x57, it's very under appreciated. My chronograph reads 2830 fps with the 139-140 grain bullet weights.

shootem,

You the man! Thanks for posting the two articles.

shootem,
Way to go!!! Just got to figure out how to print those for some late night reading!
Thanks very much.

shootem or others,
How can I print these two articles?
Thanks

roundoak emailed them to me as pdf files. Dang if I can figure out how to get them here in that file format so you can print them. Like I said before I had to resave them as jpeg's in order to pass them thru photobucket and post them here as images. Only way my peabrain can figure is to pass them around as email attachments. I don't know if files can be accessed thru a webpage or not. Anybody else know?? If that could happen then whoever has the page could just post the webpage link here. Oooooo. That strained my head.

Thanks for posting those excellent articles. I haven't bought a gun rag in quite some time, but I can't recall reading many articles that were that well put together (but I might be biased by being enamored by the sweet little 7).

Much as I like O'connor, his comment that the 7x57 was the daddy of the '06 sounds like pure BS & writers' tales of mystery & imagination.

Though I'm not a historian, the only thing the 7x57 & the '06 have in common is that they are both bottleneck cases, rimless & share the same casehead diameter............same as lots if others.

MM

Shootem thanks for posting....I have both articles here somewhere...always a great read.

I believe JOC's comments were based on at least one battle in Cuba (1898) where the Spanish snipers beat up Teddy Roosevelt and his Rough Riders with their 7x57's. After that, the call went out for a new military cartridge which ultimately became the 30-06.

This is correct and when you put the two cartridges side by side, the .30/06 is very like a scaled up version.

JW

Also, I have heard it opined the 223 is a smaller version and the big 50 cal. is a larger version. Les

I can't quote scripture and verse but all I've read about the events leading up to the .30 Gov't indicate the 7/57 was the inspiration. Effective fire leveled on TR's troops at San Juan certainly played a role.

BTW the above articles were provided courtesy of roundoak. I just converted them.

With a swirly stock and targets knobs I'm sure...

The 7x57 was not only the inspiration for the .30-06, but the various Mauser actions introduced in the 1890's (especially the 98) were the inspiration for the 1903 Springield. In fact the U.S. had to pay a royalty to the Mauser company because the 1903 was such an unsubtle knock-off of the 98. (The U.S. didn't want to, but an international court decided in favor of Mauser's patents.)

Then, when the Germans started using spitzer (German for "pointed") bullets in the 8x57 the U.S. military recalled all their 1903's then in service, took off the barrels and shortened and rechambered them for a new pointed-bullet .30-06 load. This is why almost all 1903 Springfield barrels actually measure a little less than 24".

The reason was that original loading for the .30-06 was a 220-grain roundnose that required a very long throat. The switch to a much lighter spitzer required a shorter throat. The original chambering and load are often called the .30-03, and the .30-06 actually got its common name when the new, spitzer-bullet round was introduced.

It is just something wrong when a company uses a throat lozenge for a bolt knob!

Roundoak,
Thanks for digging out those 2 articles and getting them to shootem. Now if I could only figure out a way to print them.

email the post with the articles to yourself, and print it off your email...
I think that'll work...

Ingwe

A couple of articles created quite a bit interest. In addition, to the two articles posted here is a list of 7x57 articles in my files.

2008 April-May Handloader #252 - John Haviland

2007 April-May Handloader #246 - John Barsness

2001 June-July Handloader #211 - Stan Trzoniec

2000 August-September Handloader #206 - John Barsness

1999 February American Rifleman - Edward A. Matunas

1991 September-October Rifle #137 - Ludwig Olson

1984 March Outdoor Life - Jim Carmichel

1974 Gun Digest #28 - Jack O'Connor

In addition, O'Connor wrote about the 7x57 in THE RIFLE BOOK and THE HUNTING RIFLE (my favorite description - Big Punch in Little Case)

I for one, would appreciate learning of other references.

We have 4 7X57's in our family arsenal. 2 Ruger #1A's for my wife and I, A 700 Mountain Rifle and a WW1 era JP Sauer Mauser. The wife shoots Remington Factory 140's in hers for the guy asking about factory loads. They Chrono about 2600 and are sub inch in her rifle. Mine likes 150 partitions over H4350 for 2700. They are a pleasure....

I guess Jim Carmichel was full of BS too. "America didn't catch up with the 7mm for 14 years, with the final development of the 30/06 in 1906. In fact, were it not for the 7mm Mauser, America's favorite son, the 30/06, might never have been created because the 7mm was the spiritual and physical father of the '06." March 1984 Outdoor Life

Perhaps JB or others could weigh in on the interpretation of the statements of these two men.

That works, just tried it. Print is kinda small so get out your bifocals.

I had one 7x57. Great round but I'd just as soon have a 7-08 which is a true SA. However, in an action like the G33 I can't think of a more perfect round than the 7x57... it's a solid 50 fps faster than the 7-08 and we all know that's critical (grin).

And the truly amazing thing is that it only took Remington 100 years or so to come within 50fps of Mauser. What an improvement.

Given the heavy recoil of the .30/03 with it's 220 grain bullet on soldiers using Model 1903 Springfield rifles the Army would have been wise to have simply adopted the 175 grain 7mm Mauser cartridge.

Only after the Army loaded it's then new thirty calibre cartridge with 150 grain bullets did the recoil became tolerable for the troops. That birthed the 30/06.

I bet that if we had adopted the 7mm Mauser cartridge there would have been no need for the 7.62 NATO or 5.56 NATO. We might still be using the 7x57mm in some loading as our standard rifle and machine gun round. Even after over a hundred years!

I've never fired a Springfield. But given the way the stock puts my trigger-hand thumb up my nose and the caress of the steel buttplate even at rest, I can't imagine firing 220 gr bullets rapid fire in a combat situation. That alone might be grounds for surrender.

In 1900 Senior Military Officers were the people who made these decisions. They were still concerned with the traditional threat of massed horse Cavalry charges on the Infantry. They assumed the need for a cartridge sufficient to drop horses. Apparently they viewed the 7mm Mauser insufficient. But they scaled it up from a 0.284 calibre bullet to a 0.308. With a 220 grain bullet compared to the Mauser's 175 grain. The cartridge case was scaled from the Mauser's 57mm to the .30/03's 63mm.

When the standard changer from the .30/03 too the .30/06 the case was shorted one millimeter.

Actually in battle the recoil is a non issue. The extra weight of the rounds is. All of the extra size and weight for the grunt to carry would have more impact.

As an aside, when has high command ever had their pulse on the needs of the enlisted?

Randy

medicman,

I have to respectfully disagree. The "high command" isn't happy when field grade Officers. Platoon, Company, and Battalion Commanders report that their Soldiers can't qualify on the Ranges.

That the Germans Army switched to lighter pointed bullets for their standard cartridge was the official reason for the 30/06 with it's 150 grain spitzer bullet.

It was also an excuse for solving a problem of the U.S. Army Ordinance Corp creating a cartridge with more recoil than a Soldier can tolerate enough to be able to qualify with at the firing Ranges.

idahoguy101. Thanks for that post. I knew the 30-03 was a scaled up 7x57 and the 03 action was "copied" from the 98,(actually it was more the magazine configuration patents that were infringed from my understanding) after the outing to Cuba's San Juan Hill, but hadn't seen that reason before. I had understood that part of the reason was that the 30-40 had only been in production for a few years and there was all the tooling for the 30 cal barrels, with the 220gn bullet being a carry-over from the Krag as well.

Von Gruff.

Use to carry a 60 in each hand and went for broke.

I like the 7x57 a lot! Seem to have accumulated more than I actually need, but each rifle is "special". It has become my primary do-anything cartridge of choice. Last season I took my first wolf with one.
I have a Brno 22f carbine, a couple of Ruger #1's, and a couple of German combination guns in the rimmed version, a Merkel BBF and a Krieghoff Drilling. The shotgun barrels in the German guns are also chambered for a classic and capable round, the 16 ga. Like the 7x57, the 16 ga. is no longer popular, but is "just right" for many hunting tasks.

VonGruff,

World War One changed nearly everything about modern warfare. After the war the Army Ordinance Corp wisely concieved of a semiautomatic Infantry rifle that shot a lighter cartridge with enough taper in the case for it to be reliable under trench warfare filth.

That was the original Garand rifle in .276 Pederson cartridge. The 276 Pederson was ballistically a 7mm Mauser with a bullet in the 120-140 grain range.

Army Chief of Staff Douglas McArthur vetoed the Army adopting the 276 Pederson cartridge and sent Garand back to redesign the rifle to use the in service 30/06.

VonGruff,

If you want to take it enough further... After WWII the British begged us to adopt their new .280 British cartridge. Which the U.S.Army Ordinance refused to do insisting instead on the more powerful 7.62 NATO cartridge.

Decades later the U.S. Special Operations Command orders a new cartridge, the 6.8 SPC, due to their dissatisfaction with the performance of the weak standard 5.56 NATO cartridge.

The connection is that the 276 Pederson, the .280 British, and the 6.8 SPC cartridges are all ballistically alike. So the original modern smokeless army cartridge may still be the best. And the U.S. Army has been running circles around the obvious ballistic choice since 1898!

Jim Wilson wrote an article for the American Rifleman. No date listed.

Found it - American Riflman November 2009

Thanks

http://www.americanrifleman.org/ArticlePage.aspx?id=1944&cid=2

Finn also wrote 2 articles I can remember. The first was an historcal piece that features a pic of his father with a couple of Kenyan lions he took, in a Petersens special publication and the 2nd was a deer hunt in Texas with a new version (US) Rigby .275 which he reviewed.

JW

Anybody out there that can help with copying that Jobson article?
I suppose I could just re-type it.

Hey Whoop, PM me your email address and I'll send the pdf's to you. roundoak obviously has them too.

Here's a reference for the two American Rifleman articles that Finn Aagaard wrote:

American Rifleman Nov, 1986
American Rifleman April, 1990

Here is part of what he wrote about the 7x57 in the 3rd Nosler Reloading Manual:

"After encountering it in war, both the United States and Great Britain conceded its superiority over their service cartridges at the time. As a result, the U.S.A. developed the .30-06, which is in effect the 7x57 enlarged to .30 caliber..."

So O'Connor, Aagaard and Carmichael all credit the 7x57 for inspiring the .30-06. And of course the courts decided that the Mauser inspired the Springfield rifle, since they awarded royalty duties to the Mauser company for patent infringement.

Interesting thing my graddad told me was when his dad was a commando during the Anglo-Boer war, the English could not figure out why so many troops get shot in the noggin...

The reason was great-grandad and the commando's aimed at the top little bit (knobby part) of the english pith-helmets, At any range that they would shoot pommies at the 7x57 bullet would drop not more than a few inches so you are always going to score a hit

Another reference: Ross Seyfried in Guns & Ammo, Nov. 1991

His article begins thusly:

"Riflemen should be able to take advantage of this age of modern miracles, and we can. You can have a rifle and cartridge that was the choice of one of the most successful elephant hunters of all time. The same combination is lightweight, doesn't recoil or make much noise. It's also perfect for deer in the woods or sheep on the high mountain. If you act right now you can get one and 100 shells for less than $200.

This of course sounds like the work of a perverted used car salesman, but it happens to be the real truth. By buying a military 7mm Mauser rifle and the surplus ammo that is available for it you can have the foundation of W.D.M. Bell's Rigby elephant rifle...and almost eveything else."

Hmmm... I had a Ruger 77MkII in 7x57 once upon a time, and gave it up for a Sako 75 in 7-08. Now, the 7-08 works, no mistake about that..... and I'd never say anything against it...... but..... I am having a Tikka 695 put together with a 275 Rigby nomination in a LW 1:9 CM twist barrel and a McWoody stock etc. It may be a bit of a 'Tart' of a rifle but the calibre will be spot on.

Just something about the 7x57( 275 Rigby) that works in my head, and works on anything that it gets pointed at.

Best

Hello shootem,

I will be very grateful if you can send me the .pdf archives of the Jobson and O�Connor articles! I send you a PM with my e-mail address.
I have 2 7x57, an Original Sporting one made by DWM on a 1893 action. It is, as I said, an original sporting rifle, not a military reworked. Bought by my Greatgrandfather. It has commercial Proof Marks of the period. Still going strong! The other is an M98 Mauser (1935) with a Steyr Chilean contract military barrel, I bought mint with another twin barrel. It is now my main 7x57. I use and reload for them since 1974...

Probably one of my most foolish ideas was to take a perfectly good m98 mauser, and have a custom 308 target rifle built. My oldest daughter has laid claim on it so all is not lost, but I wish I would have kept it original. Too late we get smart...
Randy

Anyone shoot the 120gr TSX in their 7mm Mauser? Thoughts/comments?

I just had an FN JC Higgins (270Win) rebarelled by Bevan King in BC to 7x57 with one of his stainless bbls.

.

Not the tsx but the 120gn GS Custom HV and get 3235fps over 51gn BL-C2. Superb accuracy and the GS bullet is a beauty. That and the 160gn Woodleigh PP should see all situations covered for those that dont cast thier own and for that a cast 160gn with 65gn of soft cast onto the nose at 2415 is similar to the origional loading and works a treat.



Took this one at 145yds and three more of his friends out to 185yds with the cast softnose. All I need now inside 250yds


Von Gruff.

i really enjoyed the readings here.

so now i got a dilemma 6.5x55SE or 7x57 Mauser ....

a nightmare lol ....

Listen to the voices....buy both.

In this case R375 the voices really are your friends. You need both.

Have a 7x57 1936 Mex throated short but haven't got around to running the Nosler 120s down it--should generate some frps...

a 98 small ring gets most of the attention....:)

Thanks to "shootem", I have some great reading.

Great velocity and great looking gun. What is the story on the gun?

I should have my Ruger M77 back either tomorrow or Tuesday, stamped .275 Rigby...it will go in an Ultra lite Ruger stock.

THAT needs to go to Africa....

Ingwe

I have a lead on a Chilean 7x57 with vg to exc barrel and metal, a few dings in the stock, but I would probably restock. $275 seems like a good price to me.

Randy

Thank you shootem for the delivered files! Good reading!

Regards

PH

Hi, is very good deal! Jump on it!

This is my 7x57 all military (includiing stock and trigger) reworked! Shoot great!

Regards

PH

Ohhh, that's pretty! Is that really the original military stock? The recess under the bolt handle certainly suggests so. Well done.

PatagoniaHunter,

Your rifle is a thing of beauty. May your daughters be so lovely.

And may she see the beauty in a wwell crafted rifle such as yours.
Randy

very nice!

Like Lazarus, this one has come out of the tomb. Aside from some old pictures of Ingwe, there are a couple of articles that might be of interest. Just put on your specs; the print is a bit small.

RM

Thanks for bringing that back to the top!

.....or more modern 7x64mm which is Euro performance comparable to .270 Winchester or .280. If anyone likes similar caliber to 7x57 Strum & Ruger recently made a run of classic looking rifles chambered for .275 Rigby. The only downside they're a little on heavy side by modern standards.

Old Laz was only in the tomb 3 days, not 3710 days.

Dat’s true!!

My wife's 7x57 cz 550 is in the process of a major facelift and is down to 7 lbs., 3 ounces so far. Perhaps someone would post pics for me?

7x57 max length 3.065. 280 3.33 ok the difference isn't worth making another action. the good news is which ever you choose will work well.

can't lose!

Even the old cobbled-together ones can still shoot.

I bought this M1909 a couple of years ago to use as a rough weather rifle, since it was in a B&C Carbelite stock, but the barrel was way too big (almost had a target profile), so I sent everything off to a fellow who had the action hardened and turned down the barrel using a Rigby profile with the old step (you can see it in the closeup), finished at .540 inches at the muzzle (24 inches). It took almost a pound off the entire rifle, bringing it to 7lbs, 2oz on the scale. I put an old 3-9 VXII on it, mounted in old-fashioned Weaver tip-off rings and Weaver base. The entire outfit comes in us right at 8lbs, and the balance is perfect. Not bad for an old, heavy military action.

I plan to use this rifle on pigs, so loaded up some 175-gr Hornady Interlocks (RN) that I got a while back from Rocky Mountain Reloading. I loaded six three-shot groups, starting at 41.0 grains of IMR4350 up 43.5 grains, a half-grain at a time. Brass was Prvi, primers were WLR, and the CBTO was 2.635 inches, .010 off the lands. I didn't chronograph them at the range today but estimate that the first load was running at about 2400 fps and the last was about 2500. The first three-shot group measured just over 1.5 inches and the last was .416. I suppose I could tweak powder charge and seating depth of the last one a bit, but I'm not consistent enough off the bench for it to make any difference whatsoever. This load will be perfect for anything under 200 yards, and since just about everything I shoot is way inside of that (closer to inside 75) I think this will do.

Sorry for the crappy smartphone pictures. I ought to learn to use my wife's camera.

That should do nicely, Rev.

RevMike, that is a fine example of a campfire rifle right there.

I just got an Edge stock in for my 1981 M70 fwt 7x57. Tuned trigger, Meopta 6x42 #4 in Conetrol rings. Shooting 140gr TTSXs nicely right around 2,800fps and zeroed at 200yds.

I played a little bit with the 120 and 140 gr. TSX bullets but never got good accuracy from then in three different rifles. I got sidetracked when I scored a large pile of 150 gr. Partitions and never got back to the TSX bullets. I'll probably play wit them sometime but for now I'll stick with what's working for me. It just could be my rifles just don't like those bullets. YMMV.

Paul B.

Anyone have experience reloading for small ring 1895 mausers?

im planning on using lead free because of cal laws, will most likely be using a lighter weight Barnes ttsx. Just not sure where to start, guessing I should stay away from the max loads that Barnes has posted in their site.

This Barnes data is listed at 51K psi. Good to go for your 95. https://www.barnesbullets.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/7X57mmMauserWeb.pdf

I like that! What's it weigh?

Been trying to resist this one.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/871454851

Resistance is futile. Jump on it!

To echo many of these posts, some cartridges have a magic earned by longevity, classic rifles, and solid performance for hunting. 7 x 57, 30-06, .270 Win, .30-30, .300 Savage, and many more. It's the history, dripping from every box of cartridges and every rifle owned by our ancestors and others from a different time when hunters bought one or two good rifles and used them for a lifetime.

I've seen that one as well. Wonder what it weighs.

You need that one Mike!

I have a Boddington edition - same rifle only with a 22" barrel. I'm gonna leave this one for you.

My first and only (to date) shoot-for-group Fed 140 with my new/used Win70XTR. Full length re-bedded from recoil lug forward. I pulled #9 and knew it. If this wasn't just luck, I may come to like it!

Have yet to try the 175s that came with it.

My M70 XTR Featherweight shoots like that all the time. At least when I do my part.
Paul B.

The 24 inch is skookum! balances the rifle out perfectly...


just sayin....

I REALLY want to like the Ruger #1, but each and every one I've bought hasn't stayed around long enough to justify the purchase.

That walnut though.....

It has some nice streaks, for sure. I think Ingwe should pick it up to match his 24” Hawkeye African. What’s $1600?

I’m holding out for something else - not sure what yet, but I’ll either know it when I see it or have it made. Or I’ll just shoot more.

There is a 7x57 on a small ring Kurz on GI. I’m sure you’ve seen it.

Man, that’s a beauty....

Mike, if it's the Dubber rifle, yes.

Lacks bottom metal however. A custom rifle needs custom bottom metal to my eye.

That being said, I verified weight with Dubber.

7lb 6oz scoped.

It helps cut down the weight, though. Pretty wood and engraving.

Indeed.

According to Dubber the magazine is 3 1/4" - the follower is 3"

Educate me: Does that mean that, depending on leade, of course, a round could be loaded to 3.25 and still function? Or would it be limited to follower length?

Very cool chambering with a TON of history. It always kills better than I expect with very mild recoil. Shoots 140 grain accubonds into 1/2 inch group with a Rem 700 action and a SS super match Pac Nor barrel. Also has a B&C Ti stock on it. Love it!

Rev, I inquired about the OAL of the mag box.

Response;

"I loaded the magazine with 4 7X57 Mauser...new Sellier & Bellot 173 grain SPCE cartridges, and they measure exactly 3" in length.  I also loaded 4 Winchester 7mm 175 Grain Soft Point cartridges that measure 3 1/16" in length and they also operate properly."

Sold this one (a Boddington Leopard) awhile back to a fellow 'Fire member. Still wondering why I did that...
Bob



Other side looks great, too

7lb-12oz

Just received my dream rifle after a 10+year search.

7x57R - Merkel Stalking Rifle

You might as well just sell all your other guns now....

What a beauty! I agree with Ingwe. I've been toying with the idea of heading in that direction myself. Where I do 99% of my hunting, I have yet to need another round faster than I could load a single shot. As a matter of fact, I can count on one hand the number of times I've needed more than the round in the chamber. Of course, functionally it doesn't make any difference, but that rifle has, as Ingwe likes to say, panache. And the ibex and chamois add to it. Now you just need to make a trip to harvest what you already have an engraved record of.

Been thinking about that...except I'd have to get a .270...
Bob

Hey Rev,

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/875703441

On sale! You gonna buy it?

It's a value at that price.

Thinking on it.

Sako, congrats on the rifle. It's a beauty.

Sako, I have a friend that's had one four years and he said he has worked for months on end trying to get bolt actions to shoot as well as the Merkel did out of the box. He claims once one has a K3 everything else can be sold.

It's a nice rifle, but if it's built to shoot factory 175s, in my mind that's a bit counterproductive for something that falls into the light mountain category. You ought to take one of those nice M70s you already have and spend about the same (+/-) and build something similar. You already have a nice .280 that shoots extremely well; maybe just have a stock carved for it and then you'd have the best of both worlds: nice walnut to look at and use when the weather's good, and a bedded Bridges synthetic to bang around the rocks in the snow and rain. Just a thought.

And before you say it, I already know: "Physician, heal thyself."

Rev, that .280 has prevented me from buying a few rifles.

But I will add a full custom 7X57 to the stable when I find the right one.