Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles Who likes the 7 x 57?

Much as I like O'connor, his comment that the 7x57 was the daddy of the '06 sounds like pure BS & writers' tales of mystery & imagination.

Though I'm not a historian, the only thing the 7x57 & the '06 have in common is that they are both bottleneck cases, rimless & share the same casehead diameter............same as lots if others.

MM

Shootem thanks for posting....I have both articles here somewhere...always a great read.

I believe JOC's comments were based on at least one battle in Cuba (1898) where the Spanish snipers beat up Teddy Roosevelt and his Rough Riders with their 7x57's. After that, the call went out for a new military cartridge which ultimately became the 30-06.

This is correct and when you put the two cartridges side by side, the .30/06 is very like a scaled up version.

JW

Also, I have heard it opined the 223 is a smaller version and the big 50 cal. is a larger version. Les

I can't quote scripture and verse but all I've read about the events leading up to the .30 Gov't indicate the 7/57 was the inspiration. Effective fire leveled on TR's troops at San Juan certainly played a role.

BTW the above articles were provided courtesy of roundoak. I just converted them.

With a swirly stock and targets knobs I'm sure...

The 7x57 was not only the inspiration for the .30-06, but the various Mauser actions introduced in the 1890's (especially the 98) were the inspiration for the 1903 Springield. In fact the U.S. had to pay a royalty to the Mauser company because the 1903 was such an unsubtle knock-off of the 98. (The U.S. didn't want to, but an international court decided in favor of Mauser's patents.)

Then, when the Germans started using spitzer (German for "pointed") bullets in the 8x57 the U.S. military recalled all their 1903's then in service, took off the barrels and shortened and rechambered them for a new pointed-bullet .30-06 load. This is why almost all 1903 Springfield barrels actually measure a little less than 24".

The reason was that original loading for the .30-06 was a 220-grain roundnose that required a very long throat. The switch to a much lighter spitzer required a shorter throat. The original chambering and load are often called the .30-03, and the .30-06 actually got its common name when the new, spitzer-bullet round was introduced.

It is just something wrong when a company uses a throat lozenge for a bolt knob!

Roundoak,
Thanks for digging out those 2 articles and getting them to shootem. Now if I could only figure out a way to print them.

email the post with the articles to yourself, and print it off your email...
I think that'll work...

Ingwe

A couple of articles created quite a bit interest. In addition, to the two articles posted here is a list of 7x57 articles in my files.

2008 April-May Handloader #252 - John Haviland

2007 April-May Handloader #246 - John Barsness

2001 June-July Handloader #211 - Stan Trzoniec

2000 August-September Handloader #206 - John Barsness

1999 February American Rifleman - Edward A. Matunas

1991 September-October Rifle #137 - Ludwig Olson

1984 March Outdoor Life - Jim Carmichel

1974 Gun Digest #28 - Jack O'Connor

In addition, O'Connor wrote about the 7x57 in THE RIFLE BOOK and THE HUNTING RIFLE (my favorite description - Big Punch in Little Case)

I for one, would appreciate learning of other references.

We have 4 7X57's in our family arsenal. 2 Ruger #1A's for my wife and I, A 700 Mountain Rifle and a WW1 era JP Sauer Mauser. The wife shoots Remington Factory 140's in hers for the guy asking about factory loads. They Chrono about 2600 and are sub inch in her rifle. Mine likes 150 partitions over H4350 for 2700. They are a pleasure....

I guess Jim Carmichel was full of BS too. "America didn't catch up with the 7mm for 14 years, with the final development of the 30/06 in 1906. In fact, were it not for the 7mm Mauser, America's favorite son, the 30/06, might never have been created because the 7mm was the spiritual and physical father of the '06." March 1984 Outdoor Life

Perhaps JB or others could weigh in on the interpretation of the statements of these two men.

That works, just tried it. Print is kinda small so get out your bifocals.

I had one 7x57. Great round but I'd just as soon have a 7-08 which is a true SA. However, in an action like the G33 I can't think of a more perfect round than the 7x57... it's a solid 50 fps faster than the 7-08 and we all know that's critical (grin).

And the truly amazing thing is that it only took Remington 100 years or so to come within 50fps of Mauser. What an improvement.

Given the heavy recoil of the .30/03 with it's 220 grain bullet on soldiers using Model 1903 Springfield rifles the Army would have been wise to have simply adopted the 175 grain 7mm Mauser cartridge.

Only after the Army loaded it's then new thirty calibre cartridge with 150 grain bullets did the recoil became tolerable for the troops. That birthed the 30/06.

I bet that if we had adopted the 7mm Mauser cartridge there would have been no need for the 7.62 NATO or 5.56 NATO. We might still be using the 7x57mm in some loading as our standard rifle and machine gun round. Even after over a hundred years!

I've never fired a Springfield. But given the way the stock puts my trigger-hand thumb up my nose and the caress of the steel buttplate even at rest, I can't imagine firing 220 gr bullets rapid fire in a combat situation. That alone might be grounds for surrender.

In 1900 Senior Military Officers were the people who made these decisions. They were still concerned with the traditional threat of massed horse Cavalry charges on the Infantry. They assumed the need for a cartridge sufficient to drop horses. Apparently they viewed the 7mm Mauser insufficient. But they scaled it up from a 0.284 calibre bullet to a 0.308. With a 220 grain bullet compared to the Mauser's 175 grain. The cartridge case was scaled from the Mauser's 57mm to the .30/03's 63mm.

When the standard changer from the .30/03 too the .30/06 the case was shorted one millimeter.