I picked up a Winchester Model 70 7mm magnum project rifle yesterday. I am considering shortening the 26 inch barrel to 22 inches to make it a bit handier.

I could give a hang about loosing a little velocity.


Has anyone ever run a 22 inch 7RM? If so what was your experience.

Nope.

But I run a 20 on a 7/08

That's alot of case capacity to burn in 22". You may could somewhat keep your velocity up by using a slightly faster burning powder.

This would also keep it from looking like a muzzleloader when you fired it.

Just be real careful if you go to a little faster burning powder.

Maybe somebody who has dealt with that on a 7 Mag. can help you out.

JM

Uh, me too


Edited for clarification: The 7/08 is now gone down the road.

I ran a BAR 30/06 with an 18 1/2 tube and other than causing deafness, it worked fine.

IIRC, I ran 56 grains of IMR 4350 pushing a 165 gr. Partition. Muzzle velocity was a little above 2500 fps. (Basically, a .300 Savage)

In mine, the bullet didn't stabilize until it got out there a ways.

Should make a handy rifle, though it might keyhole slightly at closer ranges.

What I have in mind is creating a relatively light (target weight is 8 lbs or so all up using the factory issued synthetic stock), tough rifle that can be tossed in the truck and carried up the steep ridges without breaking the bank.

It will do that in spades. Mine wasn't light, (no BAR is, even with the barrel chopped) but it handled pretty good.

I had an older K-1.5 on it and used it for years as a slippin' gun and piggie shooter.

I don't understand the desire to shorten the barrel on a 7mm magnum. To me at least, the 7mm Mag. is a rifle one choses for open country, longer range shooting.

In that sort of hunting a longer (26") barrel isn't going to make much difference in how handy the rifle is when hunting. If any rifle NEEDS more barrel length it is the big magnum rounds that burn a lot of powder and give back a lot of velosity. To trim the barrel on a 7mm Mag. to 22" will basically give you 200-250 fps less velosity and that means it is equivalent to the .280 Rem. Why not just shoot the .280 in the first place and burn less powder??

If your hunting is in thicker terrain where a 4" shorter barrel really is desirable.....shots will likely be shorter and the 7mm Magnum is hardly the first chambering I'd choose. There's no need for the high velosity/flat trajectory that it offers. A .280 or even better .30-06 would be a much better choice at ranges under 250 yards.

If I need long range I already have that with several rifles. The 7Mag was available at the right price and I just want to try something different.

Also, based on what I have seen in chronographing several rifles the velocity loss will be closer to 125fps than 250 fps.

HBB;

If you already have the 7-08, the 7RM is just going to give you much more blast and somewhat better performance, but no deer will ever know the difference.

The 7/08 is now gone.

No first hand experience but I have a story:

A friend got tired of dragging his 24" barreled 7RM around so he chopped it to 17". I'm sure performance dropped considerably, it was terrible loud, would dang near set the woods on fire with the ball of flame that it expelled, but it was just as accurate and much easier to carry according to him.

You f'ked up.

HBB,

While you are figuring this out, I will shoot you some more deer. Ha.

Swap some stuff for a Kimber Montana in 7WSM, and you're there with the weight and the performance.

ROLLIN'!

The old man is HARSH this morning....

The old man is off his medication this morning.


I'll remember stuff like this next time he needs three deer toted off the mountain.

It ain't the first time.

Too much money

Ouch

Ergo, the swap.

Buy the good schit once, and it's MUCH cheaper.

You'll lose 6 oz. from the worst part of the rifle as regards balance and IME closer to 200 fps.

Does HBB need more deer?

Wife has placed a moratorium on me until the kids get one, or a needed cause comes along.

HBB, send my wife a text saying you're hungry so I can go out and kill something.

I'll even use your right handed Model 70.

I'm cryin'....

The way my luck runs I would get one of those "special" Kimbers that won't shoot or feed.

Buy a "known" one here.

Schit's only as hard as you make it, but damned if you don't seem to have a knack for trying like hell to make it that way and then some.

Sure, I'll put in a good word with the wife.

The 7mag will do fine this morning as long as you don't need a scope or sights.

I'll just pull the bolt, bore sight the deer, replace the bolt, load, and shoot - just like I always do.

Been to the DoucheBeer skool of a'vanced deer huntin' an' shootin', haven't you?

Honer grad-jew-ate.

I'll have to wait for better weather. Ya know they aren't moving in the cold and wind.

Waitin' on that central VA snowstorm tomorrow, and try to dink a few on Friday... just 'cause.

That rifle HBB is talking about will work fine. With a 160 pill, he should still be able to get close to 2900 fps. if he reloads.

Go shoot something with it HBB and post a pic so they will quit giving you a hard time.

Somehow, I don't think that'll help....

I could go kill the world record whitetail with that rifle and that wouldn't slow'em down a bit.

That's cause we like you, imagine if we didn't

If you did, they would all sneak out get a rifle like that.

I guess you have a point there

Chop it, load 175 grain RNs, load down to 2440ish...

That'll work great; just a damned convoluted way to get there, though.

Thinkin the only thing you'll recieve is more muzzle blast.

You mean turn it into a 7x57

pretty much

Which isn't a bad thing until you have to pay for the 30% more powder used.

Personally, I'd cut and crown to 23" in a heart beat, from 26" to 23" you'll lose about 90 fps. Big deal, and it'll handle/balance a lot nicer (at least by my way of thinking).

And I'd think about a new handle for it if it has factory wood on it. Something that would be 28 oz or less would feel well to this kid.

Best of luck to ya!

Dober

When you build for balance/handling,the rest always falls nicely into place...............

I have cut 7 mm Rem Mags to less than 24" twice. The first was to 22.75" and the second to 22". There was a velocity loss of about 65 fps between 24 and 22. Both times the handling improved. Remember that Warren Page, the first promoter of the big 7's, had a 22" barrel on Old Betsy, his 7 Mashburn Super, which has been rediscovered by Dober and BobinNH (and Hagel before them).

At 22", it will at least equal the 25-26" 280 AI's. Darn Good!

Right now it wears a factory Synthetic Stock and weighs exactly 7 lbs for the bare rifle wearing a set of weaver scope bases.

This is exactly what set me to thinking about a 22 inch 7MM Magnum.

I'd rather have a 22" 7mm Remmie on a long poke,than a 26" 300Winny upon same....................

The Husky H-5000 in 7RM that I have came with a 21.5" barrel. It handles and balances like a dream, and I get a chronographed ~100fps less than most book loads (Specifically, the manuals that use a 24" barrel for their test data).

I totally concur

The .300 Winny was my default cartridge for a long time then I discovered the .280AI (especially when using the 120 Nosler BT and the 162 A-Max for long shooting) and the .300 Winny love just went away.


I have developed some shoulder joint and other neuro-muscular issues that make toting my 9.5 lb .280AI all real pain in azz.

The .280AI shoots so good I don't want to tear it apart and my dad really likes it so I traded it to the old man.


This 7 Mag project will hopefully replace the .280AI for hunting use when I am not slumming my Tikka T3 .243.

Since we are cussing and discussing this project in some detail which scope should I use?

4x Leupy in keeping with the spirit of "Old Betsy"

6x Leupy

2-7 Redfield or Leupy

I'm happy with a 6x42 to 1K and beyond...the others don't even begin to hang................

Well its your rifle do with it what you want. I personally would not go shorter than 24 inches. I like a little longer barrel, I always have. It will be loud, and the muzzle blast will get you attention at first and last light. And depending on who you talk to, you end up with a very loud more recoil and more muzzle jump and blast at a performance level of a 270 with a 22 inch barrel. You are going to just end up with a loud 280. I would be interested in how it works for you if you cut that barrel down.

Rin-back when I did my first Mashburn (15 or so ago already...zeesh where's it go) I went 23" after chatting with Hagel about it, if I directed the bullet in the proper manner things just happened to go to Croak City Wyo rather rapidly...imagine that

Dober

This will be good. You ever shot/chronographed one?

Didn't think so................

Just finally had to comment, I've been on for a while but usually choose not to comment on this type of discussion, ( have a tendancy to be a little sarcastic) I have shot a 30-338 with a 20" barrel since 1982, it is on it's second 20" barrel as I seem to like them that way. I can get over 3k with 180's in both barrels. Can anyone really tell me HOW much louder a 22" barrel is really going to be being 4 inches closer to ones ear? Can't imagine that it would be much. If we are afraid of the bang maybe we should play golf! And as to the velocity loss I never saw a deer or elk that could actually tell the difference in a few FPS. If you always want max speed you have to give up a little portability and balance. Cut you 7 to what ever you want, if you don't like it tubes are not really that expensive.
Good luck and I bet you like your new more portable rifle.
6MMWASP

...................TR!............Losing 200-250 fps from only a 4" barrel cutdown on a 7mm Mag? Man! You are just a little pesimistic there. LOL! IME, more like 20 to 30 fps per inch or 80 to 120 fps overall. Using the same loads over a chrony, my 300 WSM Ruger carbine with only a 16.5" barrel, retains on average 95.5% to 95.7% of the 24" barreled 300 WSM velocities. The comparison breakdown differences "per inch" were from 16.4 fps to 19.5 fps. Going from a 26" barrel down to 22" on a 7mm Mag, a 50 to a 62.5 fps velocity loss, is too much imo.

Maybe Hillybilly will also take that rifle into some deep timbers? Maybe into some thicker brush? Or maybe up and down and into some space constricting stands? So a 4" barrel cutdown will help in the handier and better manuverability depts. And just maybe while on the same hunt, he might need to perform a 400-500 shot in an open clearing?

If one can handle a little more muzzle blast and some noise (not all THAT much different between a 26" and a 22"), shorter barreled and handier rifle thinking, should not just be restricted to the lesser powerful non-magnum rounds.

By using powerful rounds in more compact rifles, one has the ease in using a handier and easier carrying rifle for the thicker stuff, and then jump immediately if needed to, into some serious long range hunting using the same rifle.

Havin some cake and eatin it too.

That is exactly the type of area I mostly hunt. The majority of shots are 200 yards or less but there are some spots where you may need to reach out beyond 400 yards.

sound like an excuse to buy another rifle!

22" 7 mag barrels are very LOUD!

....Looks like I kinda hit one nail on the head there uh? Many of my hunting situations are the same and as such, out comes my short `n handy powerhouse.

A 7mm Remy Mag`s tube length to a few, should be no less than 24"....Other than just a little velocity loss, why so? Will a 4" difference, make all "THAT" much of a difference in noise and blast? Imo, not really. Gonna lose bunches of velocity too?.......Nope!

During the same range session with a friend a few months back, I fired the same identical factory rounds from a friend`s 23" tubed 375 Ruger African and from my 20" barreled 375 Ruger Alaskan. And with my range muffs on, there was no discernable extra noise nor muzzle blast seen or felt. And with them off (I had my buddy fire my Alaskan once and then his African once), I couldn`t hear any differences in noise levels between the two in that respect either.

They're actually not that bad, IME. People that shoot with me can hardly tell the difference in noise and blast between my 22" .280, 22" .25-06, 21.5" 7RM, etc.

Even a friend's Win 70 7x57 with muzzle break is much more abusive on my ears than my 21.5" 7RM...

In my experience most all centerfire rifles are pretty loud. I can't tell a whole lot of difference between any of them.

Now, muzzle brakes are just downright oppressive.

..............Well then, you`d absolutely love benching next to my 338-378 Accumark w/brake?.....

I have had the pleasure of being next to one of those. They sure get your attention


A .50 BMG is a lot of fun to be next to when it goes of too.

Try being in a HUMM-V and have one go off above you.... Repeatedly... Quickly....

I've never had a 22" 7 mag.,but I guess back in the day Warren Page's Old Betsy flushed out quite a few 22" 7 mags.I've bumped into customs built by Dale Goens and Al Biesen chambered for 7RM and 7mmWeatherby with 22" tubes...these rifles both looked like they had been hunted.....

And Bob Chatfield-Taylor's G&H 7RM on a Mauser action had a 22" tube.He reported right at 3000 with a 175 from that tube,and used it to kosh a big brown bear on Admiralty Island,one shot,at about 300 yards,while hunting with Ralph Young.......

I suspect a 22" 7RM would make short work of any deer at 400 yards without starting to breath hard...

No thanks. I believe I will pass on that experience.

I'm a great fan of handy/dandy and don't get too concerned about decibels until entering the 18" and shorter realm.

Though admittedly love a 14" 7-08 XP.....................(grin)

hillbilly, I have a 7mm rm with a 23" barrel. I have had 7rm's with 24 and 26" barrels also. In my experience velocity loss was less than 100 fps, and I could not tell a difference in muzzle blast. When I'm at the bench I use ear plugs and when I shoot game I never notice the sound of the shot, I don't see the big deal about muzzle blast from a 23" barrel, and don't think a 22" should make that much difference. I say cut it and with good handloads it will outrun any 280 rem. (which I have also had in 22"-26" barrels)

Thanks for the input.

The 100 fps or less is the velocity loss I have experienced over the chronograph on several rifles with different barrel lengths.

If it's a project whack away. Personally I'd stop at 24, see if that suffices and go to 22" as a last resort. Only cause it's going to be loud and I'm already pretty deeef.

Speaking of velocity: I went back thru the loading notes for the .280AI and I am getting 3323 fps with the 120 Nosler BT, just short of 3200 fps with a 139 Hornady, and the first round of loadings (i.e. starting loads) with the 162 AMAX produced 2850 fps from a 23 inch Shilen barrel. This is using H4350, RL 22, and IMR 7828 powder in fireformed RP cases.

Also, these loads are not super hot redline stuff either. I could coax a bit more out if I tried.

I am thinking that duplicating these velocities with a 22 inch 7Mm Remmy shouldn't be too difficult.

got snow?

Nope, just a light glazing of ice. We seemed to have dodged this one.

dad and I took the M-70 apart to check things out good and did a trigger job. The factory synthetic ADL style (i.e. no floor plate) stock is surprisingly stiff. Much stiffer than the usual Remington tupperware of the same vintage

Its not a McMillan or a Manners by any stretch but its plenty good enough for my intended project.

VA has plenty of JB when you're ready to bed it.

Sounds like a plan to me.

Sounds like a glue job to me...........

I MIGHT even remember to spec out the release agent...

As opposed too...?

I can get 3200-3250fps from most 140gr bullets if I use max loads (using the 21.5" barrel).

Which powders are you using?

I really like IMR4831 and R22, and I'm going to start experimenting with IMR7828 and R17.

7828 works great with the 162 AMax.

Personally I wouldn't purchase a 7mm RM at any price. Especially to cut 4 inches of barrel off so it doesn't perfom to the level it should without the extra barrel length. Got buy a 30-06 and you won't be sorry.

.........Aside from your opinion or dislike of the 7mm RM, the estimated 80 to 120 fps velocity loss from a 4" barrel cut down, won`t make a darns worth of difference in killing power performance on any game one could possibly hunt with a 7mm RM. Long ranges or short ranges, a 22" barreled 7mm RM rifle, will do anything that a 26" barreled 7mm RM can do.

That would also apply to just about any other cartridge if the barrel length is reduced.

To each his own

That is exactly the bullet I was planning on seating on top of a healthy dose of 7828.

You'll like the 162 AMAX especially at longer ranges.

You truly will get more with a 22" bbled 7mm Rem Mag: blast and kick.

You will also get less: velocity

Don't do it. I'd cut no less than 24", or as others have said, get a .280 or .280 AI or 30-06 or .270.

I am beginning to wonder if anybody is even reading anything I have posted.

I either already have or have ready access to a .280 AI, .270, .30/06, .308,.300 Wby, .300 H&H, .340 Wby, .350 RM as well as everything from a .17 Remington to .257 Wby.


This 7 Mag is a project designed to fit a special niche (Moderate weight, synthetic stocked rifle)at as low a cost as possible.

I am not concerned with pure ballistic performance and I am not looking for a long barreled 9lb plus rifle.

HBB;

Why are you even bothering to ask questions, since you've already made up your mind about what, why, and how, before you started?

Just curious too see if anybody else had experiences with a similar rifle.

Love the bullet, but I've never tried it over 7828 from the 7Mag

What if everyone who had experience with a 22" 7mmRM recommended against it?

Would you then change your mind?

Maybe he hasn't, but I have. There is really no difference in blast or kick. Velocity is 100fps or less below the velocities listed in the reloading manuals.

The questions is, have you shot a 21 or 22" 7RM?

It'd be akin to everyone who's been laid saying "you'll not like it",which reiterates the reason to consider the source(s).

I'm hip on getting laid and a 22" 7Remmie...in no particular order....................(grin)

It seems to me that most, if not all of the guys that have actually been there and done it don't see a problem with running a 22" 7Mag.

Have you heard of a hypothetical question?

Facts is far more soothing..................

Possibly

I doubt he has ever shot a 7 Mag of any flavor but I bet he read about it in Field & Stream

Just send it up here. I'll treat her right with a diet of 162s and a proper handle

Can't believe I read this whole thread. I've had a 24" 7mm RM for the last 40 years shoots great, its my hot rod, would never do anything to it to lower its performance envelope... Cut my barrel length down ? Never happen,not while own it. Can't carry the weight of the extra 4" of barrel? Don't bother to start up the ridge with anything, maybe you can find a lighter weight keyboard to use also. Yeah, all BS aside HBB its your gun . But think on this, if a 22" 7mm RM is such a great idea why don't they make them that way from the factory? Can't really remember anybody sending them out to the public with a 22" tube, why is that do you suppose? Like I said it's your gun. Magnum_Man

Quit coveting my 7Mag your 7x57 is going to get jealous

While a short barreled 7mm Mag is no .264 WM, in a pinch you can still find your way home at night by touching off a round every 1/4 mile or so.

<laughing>

Like calling for your own illumination flares...

Just load a little powdered magnesium in the cases along with the powder. Home made Starburst shells

I have (3) 7mmRM rifles with 26" barrels and (1) 7mmRM with a 23.375" barrel.

I have shot (8) deer with a 22" 270.

If shorter barrels are lighter and more accurate, but longer barrels have more velocity, I would take shorter. Still, I have never cut length off a barrel yet to make it shorter and more accurate. Enough get short cutting off shot out throats or the wrong chamber or the wrong threads.

i'm pretty sure the Winchester FeatherWeight was made in 7mm RM with 22" bbl...

They did and also offered it in .300 Winchester.


I briefly owned one in .300 and like a big dummy traded it off.

Husqvarna also made a factory 21.5" 7RM. When I was younger I thought that they had made a mistake, and wished that it had been produced with a longer barrel. Now I value the rifle for it's handling and balance, with minimal velocity loss, and it turns out that Husqvarna knew what they were doing, after all

The Huskies are GREAT Rifles.

Sure did, a .280 w/ same barrel length was only slightly slower. Blast was big too...

A 7mmremmag with a 22" barrel would be a total waste.I don't see the point in putting up with all the noise and muzzle blast for 280 velocities.

I wanted to build my Sons 7 Mag at 22" but he insisted on 24"
My stainless/Synthetic 338 is 22" and just about perfect for me.
I don't get all the complaints about muzzle blast. I can't tell any difference between my 22" and my Ruger 26"

This is one thing that has really puzzled me about some of the comments. As far as my ears can tell all centerfire rifles are loud.

One of the reasons the .264 WM failed commercially.

for conversation, from QL

max load under 140 gr. Hornday in a 22" 7mm-08 will run 2917 fps

max load under 140 gr. Hornady in a 22" .280 will run 3004 fps

max load under 140 gr. Hornady in a 22" 7 RM will run 3206 fps

max load under 140 gr. Hornady in a 26" 7 RM will run 3342 fps

all calculated using optimum powder for velocity and SAAMI pressures.

probably about the same diff @ 24" and 26" but i don't care enough to run the numbers. still, i see 200 fps as a healthy step up.

this suggests you will loost 34 fps per inch of barrel in the 7mm RM when going from 26" to 22"

Thanks for the calculations Toad. What powder did QL indicate as being optimum for the 7Mm Mag?

Norma MRP, and second up was IMR 7828 at ten fps slower

...........Only 280 velocities from 22" 7mm Mag? I wouldn`t bet on that!

And all the extra noise and the extra blast, is over exaggerated in some circles.

Thanks. I have two or three pounds of 7828 just sitting on the shelf asking to be burned up.

As are the benefits of a 4" shorter barrel.

the 7RM is a good use of it. i use only 7828 in my 264s and 7 WSM.

another calc. i forgot was to do 26" 7mm RM speed. it was 3342 fps.
that means you loose 34 fps per inch of barrel

Thanks for the 26 inch info. 34 fps per inch isn't bad at all.

that's right in the mix of what other cartridges give up.

i looked at all of the real life data i could find about velocity/barrel length, and almost all of the cartridges came in at 25-45 fps per inch.

One of the reasons the .264 WM failed commercially. [/quote)

Wondered if someone would bring that up. IIRC that 22" 264 dropped the 264 performance level to that of a slow 270 Win. with a "helluva wollop" and great muzzle blast.HBB, nuff talking start doing, get with it. oh wouldn't buy that stuff info you got earlier about using a faster burnrate powder either. The slower burners will still serve you better in the 7 RM. My 2 cts and the right to have and express it. Magnum Man

One should always lope of about 4" of magnum barrel that way when you carry it all day your p-zzy wont hurt

4" Loped Of Off The 338 Win Mag

of course 'handy' doesn't matter if you don't make it past the hay bales...

here's a 21" .375 AI. yep, it's loud, but most guns are...

Nice rifle, what kind of scope do you have on it.

it's a Leupold 1.5-5 MK4. it wasn't my first choice (but i had it sitting on the shelf). it's growing on me though.

my shortest magnum rifle (.350 RM) at 18.5"

Love M 600.

I have a 673 in .350 RM that is a really neat rifle.

small world... this is my 673 (.350) , de-ribbed and poked into a McMillan MR stock.
of course @ 22", it's spent zero time in a haybale hide

kinda want it's brother in 6.5 RM too.

That rig is a pure plain killing machine and easily one of my all time fav top 10 guns from the Fire!

Dober

Mine has been deribbed but it still wears the factory stock.

That is a nice set up you have.

No. They made it with a 24".I have one.The 300 WM FW had a 24" as well.

I actually read every post in this thread, which apparently some have not. (But that's usual on the Campfire. Most folks just read the OP and then respond, even if 100 posts have already thrashed over the same stuff.)

The people who have never experimented much with shorter barrels have trotted out all the old BS: that 250 fps will be lost, that the rifle will turn into a 7x57, that you'll have to use a "faster" powder to make up for the shorter barrel, etc.

None of this is true. A larger rifle cartridge ALWAYS will get more velocity than a smaller one, in any legal-length barrel. The velocity gain will also follow the same 1/4 rule, no matter the barrel length: Velocity gain will be at 1/4 the rate of powder space gain.

Also, the same powders that get the most velocity in longer barrels will get the most velocity in shorter barrels. In a 7mm RM the fastest powders will be the usual suspects: IMR7828, H4831 and H1000, RL-22 and RL-25, Ramshot Magnum, etc.

There is no way to determine how much velocity loss will be without shooting, as different loads will lose different amounts. I have seen the same barrel lose anywhere from 15 to 60 fps per inch when shortened 5 inches. The burning rate of the powder didn't matter; some faster powders lost more than some slower powders.

One general rule, however, is that the LEAST amount of velocity loss in shorter barrels is with heavier bullets and slower powders. This is counter-intuitive, and contrary to popular myth, but I have seen it over and over again in various rifles.

There have been experiments run on shorter barrels with decibel-measurement equipment and no, they are not a hell of a lot louder. What really up the decibel level is a muzzle brake or a much larger bore.--but as some perceptive person already noted on this thread, ALL big game rifles are loud. They will all make us deaf if we don't use hearing protection.

Once again the people who have actually shot shorter-barreled magnum rifles have posted good information, and those who never have posted the same old general misinformation.

I've owned several 22" barreled magnum rifles and there isn't enough difference in the ballistics to ever notice in the field--and they have all still produced "magnum" ballistics.

Banking a rigidity increase,aiding balance and making things handier...is very tough approaches to argue against,if assuming a shred of sense.

A 22" 7 Remmie makes all sorts of sense and as I've mentioned often,there's no way in hell I'd build one longer than 24" and that ain't because I've never had 'em.

Less is just so very often more....................

Exactly. I've seen increased accuracy many times with a little barrel shortening--and no, it wasn't due to the new crown, because the crown had already been "refreshed" in a search for better accuracy with the longer barrel.

As an experiment, I once shortened the barrel of a .300 Winchester Magnum to 22". Not only did it shoot better, but with published data it still got 3000 fps with 180-grain bullets. So it didn't exactly turn into a .30-06 or .308....

Thanks for the input JB.


When the road up to the range on top of the mountain thaws out enough to get up there without using a dogsled (it may be a while) I am going to get underway with load development.

Before I have the barrel cut back I am going to chronograph the loads in the 26 inch length to establish a base line so we can see how this barrel behaves when it is cut back.

I am going to concentrate the bulk of my efforts on the 162 Hornady AMax/BTSP, 160 Speer, and a yet to be determined 175 of some kind.

I'll be interested in hearing the results!

i've a Win. Laredo 7mm Rm donor, a Brownell's muzzle crowning tool set, and a Sawzall. probably too late to get the rifle back from Aronold at CS to hack up...

i'm sure the cut/chrono/repeat to 16" game has been done before though.

Yeah, a number of times. The results always vary somewhat more than the theoretical amount supposed by humans or computers.

In fact some experiments have shown an occasional increase in velocity when a couple inches of barrel have been sawn off--probably due to sawing off a slightly loose spot in the barrel.

I once shot 4 loads (2 factory and 2 handloads) from a pair of 9.3x62's, one with a 23.6" barrel and the other with a 20.5' barrel. Only one load lost as much as 80 fps, two were very similar, and one load even gained velocity slightly in the shorter barrel.

That goes both ways JB.

Ken Waters reported that he gained around 100fps when he went from 22" to 24" with the .270 WCF. He also mentioned a letter from JOC who reported the exact same increase.
My own experience with the .270 WCF also showed a 100+ fps increase when stepping up to a 24" barrel.

As I noted above in one post, I once saw the same barrel vary anywhere from 15 to 60 fps PER INCH with different loads. Which means two inches of barrel could gain or lose 120 fps. And that was a 7x57.

I once tested a 26" barreled .270. With the more-or-less standard load of 60 grains of H4831 and a 130-grain bullet, it got anywhere from 3250 to 3330 fps, depending on the bullet. But as I also noted earlier, the least amount of velocity loss (or gain) will be with heavy-for-caliber bullets and slower powders.

From past experience, I would guess a 22" barreled will get an easy 3050 with 160's and 2850 or so with 175's, the bullet weights HBB plans to use. And no .280 will get those sorts of velocities from a 22" barrel.

................JB...........Very well stated.

There are many mis-conceptions and mis-information about the shorter barrels, which in some cases, is usually offered by those who have little to no experience with them. The extra noise factor along with the more muzzle blast from the shorter barrels, are imo, over exaggerated. And, when the OP wishes to have a 7mm Rem Mag rifle chambered in a rifle with "ONLY" a 22" barrel, here come the usual comments just as you say above, such as;,,,"might as well just get a 280 Rem or some other std 7mm cartridge.",,,,,,"a shorter barreled 7 mag is just a big waste,",,,,,,,,"you`re gonna lose ALOT of velocity,",,,,,,or,,,,,"if a 22" barreled 7 mag were proper, then why don`t the rifle makers chamber the 7 Rem Mag in 22" rifles?"........La de da de da...And the mis-information and mis-conceptions go on and on.

I`ve taken alot of heat on this forum in the past for owning a 16.5" barreled 300 WSM Ruger compact. I think I`m the only one on this forum that owns one, which is well and fine with me. Some have stated; paraphrasing,,,,"I should have just bought a 24" barreled 308 or a 30-06."..."That rifle won`t live up to the full potential of the longer barreled 300 WSMs."..."I`d never own a 30 cal magnum in such a shorty tube."...."Short tubes defeat the purpose of a magnum."..."You`re losing a bunch of velocity"...."Lose your hearing yet?"..."That damn thing must be soooooo loud."..."What did you say?"..."I can`t hear ya."..."The muzzle blast on that thing must be really bad.".."Wouldn`t want to around that thing when it goes off."....And the list goes on and on.

The truth is, is that none of these past and present nay-sayers have ever owned nor chronographed a 16.5" barreled 300 WSM Ruger compact, let alone own a 22" barreled 7 Rem Mag (the subject of this thread). Yet when subjects like this one come around, they then become the "so-called" short barreled experts, posting their usual beefs, mis-information and mis-conceptions regarding short barrels, whom to begin with, would never own a shorter tubed rifle chambered in a magnum round.

Magnum rounds from shorter tubes are very taboo to most. But generally from this same crowd, the 45/70 carbines with 18.5" tubes seem fine. 21.5" tubed 375 H&Hs from the Sako Kodiaks are ok. 20" tubed 375 Rugers seem ok. 20" tubed 300 and 338 RCMs are ok.

But when it comes to 7mm Rem mags, 300 WSMs, 300 and 338 Wins and other similar magnum rounds from shorter barrels? "Throw them under the bus."..."Melt them suckers down."...."What a big waste",,,and more blah blah blah.

Again, very well stated JB.

I had one 7RM cut down from 26" to 24", and lost 50-60fps with the same loads. Barrel lengths of 21.5" to 25" suit me fine on my rifles unless its a rimfire - then 20" or under is fine.

MtnHtr

IDK about a 22-in. 7RM, but I sure wish I'd gotten a Remington 700 African Plains Rifle in .270 WCF about 20 years ago. If I ever wear out my Mountain Rifle bought at a yard sale summer '88, I might have to go long.

The idea of a 130 going 3,300 or more makes me giddy. Reckon one could break 4K with an 85 TSX?

Hotcha!

For fast and wicked look at the .257 Roy and 80 or 85 grain bullets. They make things go splat

A good crown,often works WONDERS...................

I almost forgot. How much weight do you figure cutting four inches of barrel off will net? 5-6 ounces?

Yep, my program showed 4.8 oz based on .650" OD and .284" ID and 4" length.

Here's a great program for weight calculations.

http://www.matweb.com/tools/weightcalculator.aspx

Thanks for the length/weight calculator link. That is a handy gizmo.

hillbilly,

How about make an experiment of it and chop off and crown an inch at a time and post the average velocity changes. Use a standard bread and butter load and lets see what actually happens. Speculation thrown out the window, I'd like to see some actual numbers as barrel loses bore volume.

Good Luck!

I'll see if it can be practically done 1 inch at a time when I get underway.

HBB, if you do choose to undertake this experiment you can of course skip the crowning and still get good velocity loss data.

May save some money too if you're not crowning them yourself.

The cutting and crowning work will likely be a gunsmith affair.

I am going to see if I can sweet talk a a bulk rate deal of the gun plumber.

C'mon HBB, you scared to take a hacksaw after it?

As mechanically challenged as I am I shudder to think about the damage I could do with a hacksaw

I suggest a SawzAll.

Just sayin'.....................(grin)

I would trade it for a Model 7 in 7mm08!
whelennut

Very true and yet many will Improve a 280 Rem case, increase their pressures to over 65k, and go to a longer barrel to "TRY" and mimic a 7mm Rem mag.


7mm Rem Mag with a 22" barrel.
VS
280 Imp with a 24" or 26" barrel.

Seems the increase in hull size is the most easy way to go.

Ackley fans always come up short on that deal.

Seems going to an IMPROVED case in an increase in hull size.

Nothing across the countryside would be safe if I had a Sawzall

Not enough though.

Never seen/shot/got an AI,that I didn't prefer over it's parent.

That'd be a few.....................(grin)

It's also that it's taking the weight off where it's really noticeable. I just took 3" off my formerly 26" .338 WM. The difference in handling borders on astounding. It was snout-heavy before, and at least for myself, a 26" tube in the woods kinda sucks.

Anyway now it balances much better and just from a couple walks I've taken with it in my woods it's much easier to maneuver around.

Good to hear that you're liking the cut, thinking it'll still be a rock star when it comes to shooting and may well be better!

23" has been very good to me with a lot of rounds.

Dober

Yep, it kinda goes back to basic gradeschool where we first learned about simple machines. Adding or removing a bit of weight from the extreme ends of the rifle has maximum effect on handling characteristics. A quick rifle can be turned into a slug, or a slug can be turned into a quick rifle. It's not just the raw weight alone, but it is where that weight is placed or where that weight is removed, in relation to the rifle's center balance, that can have a big effect on overall dynamics.