FINALLY got some 50 Gr. TTSXs in....loaded them up and will get out to shoot them next week..
Cooking up a little " Bambi-be-Gone"....

I like it!

Is it a swampy approved "deer rifle"

Nope!..Its been "fixed"...

Blue tips, you'll never sneak up on any deers with those.

They're hidden in the gun at that point in time...


I thought of everything.....

Pretty nice there poobah.
But you do know dont you.
That a 223 AI wont hang with a 6mm PPC accuracy wise.
Just sayen..


dave

Yeah...I know...that one sucks with 50 Vmaxes..

I hope you don't plan on wearing blue jeans when you hunt it.........

Never!...Those things will get you killed!

I guess a cowboy hat is out of the question

Cowboy hats are for tourists...

and varmintgal

Those pointy tipped things can't run with a core-licked. Just sayin...

Lookin' good. Give us a range report, and, better yet, a field report when you can.

But the question is, would you have enough gun if one of these things charged you?

Those things don't charge!

Those are for hunting from...just ask Swampy...

Haven't seen Varmintgay post in awhile...????

I hope you're as tore up about it as I am

I'm distraught....

Did Burris forget to put the eye relief in that scope?

Me too

Nope! It has a FULL inch of eye relief!

I always park them pretty far back...learned it from JeffO....

So the ice is just a symptom of a bigger problem?

Took you long enough to figure that out....

I'd let Tom paint that one.

Nooooooooooooo!!!!!!

So many Philistines, so little time for each.

ouch......

But I still won't fish for trout with worms...

When you see someone doing that, how does it make you feel?

Like going to Anger Management Classes....

there are certain things that are simply not done....

Twist on that thing is what 1:36

I would have guessed 1-66 for round balls

For me it isn't anger.

When I hear the clink of ice cubes, knowing something like Blanton's is being served, I get the "tragedy that should have been averted" feeling.

Then if we share a real Campfire you are gonna have to sit far enough away not to hear the "clink".....

Don't worry. I'll steel myself with a sip of unpolluted Van Winkle Family Reserve Rye.

So when does the stock get the leopard print treatment?

As soon as I can find a leopard print "Bubba-Buddy"...

You both are wrong, I got it on good info that it is a smoothbore....

And yes Tom I will gladly paint it for ya.....I got something really "special" cooked up just for you.

Couldn't you just get the Bubba-Buddy from one of your other rifles painted?

I figured that was going to be rainbow... each cartridge loop another color.




Cooking up my AI death ray currently too.
Just waiting on my stock now.

Don't forget to moly and kiss the lands blah, blah, blah.
I think you meant to say Hornady 75 gr. A-Max didn't you?
whelennut

Nothing says Natty Lite like a 700/Burris combo. Perhaps a Natty themed paint job................. Northern Dave can help.

20" 9 twisted .223I, mag box opened up, speedlock pin & spring, Nesika style shroud from PT&G, timney, 4.5-14x Nikon 'yote special, and eventually riding in my McMillan A-Hole.

NOPE! I like rebelling against the Conventional "Wisdom"

Shooting a light 50 gr TSX ( so far a 53 grainer has killed everything Ive pointed it at...)

Just say "no" to moly...

Quasi Kiss...

Shooting a 1in 12 twist...

Shooting a Burris Scope ( dotz) and Faux Talleys...

But I did make concessions to the other .223AI shooters here...shooting a Ti stock and H335 as first choice powder ( also loaded up some 4895 as second choice..)

Thats what you really meant to say....

Nothing says Natty light like a Mt. trout fishing trip..if you come back for one..thats ALL you are gonna get to drink!

I don't mind

I fooled around with some cannelured 55 Hornadys and 4895. I got the groups pretty small, but I couldn't get them to round out. Even at their tightest they were little vertical strings.

Didn't you comment on this same phenomenon one time?

You wouldn't.......but then you'd prolly fish with worms...


Did I mention I'm also running a factory tube on this rifle...just to buck the trend....

Yep! I can never remember but the old timers say a horizontal string might be the result of too little powder and a vertical string is indicative of too much powder...or vice versa...but Ive found by playing with it in a floated barrel,you can often get clusters instead of strings...

BTW my other .223AI Loves 55 gr Horns w/c and 4895....

You're gonna be pissed when I show you how well that Mag Duece you let go eats 53 TSX's.....

Thats not possible...its a 1 in 14 twist.....

This was a regular 223, a bedded, recrowned 700 LTR. It makes little round groups with several other combinations.

Mine is a factory take off 'Rem SPS tactical' .223 rem. tube, cut to 20" with a floorboard crown, and then bumped AI.


I wasn't trying to "buck trends" though.... I am just broke

Weird...well they all have quirks...

Sounds like you better sell that one of cheap.....


tell me more....

Varget just might pull a rabbit out of your.......hat
whelennut

The 60 Ballistics didn't seem to care either!

Dat rascal oughta shoot....

Now you are defying the laws of physics and All Things Holy here on the Campfire..


Odd how I had a 1 in 12 that shot 68 gr. match out to 500 yds REAL well....


I think wayyyyyyyy too much is made of twist....

I'm not selling.

I may let the local guy screw on a fast twist Hart that he talks to me about.

With all this the poor Deuce will be the loneliest girl at the dance

You will LOVE the Hart.....what twist??


Im shooting a "loose" 1 in 10 Hart on a .223 and it digests 68 gr Match just fine too....

I need to shoot the schitt out of it...Ive got a spare barrel in waiting....

7" or 8" for VLD playtime.

Very good plan!

You have succumbed to the siren's song of twist.....

The 9" it has now does great with 40 grain Ballistic Tips. Why be afraid of a little twist?

You gotta work to 'overtwist" a bullet. Unfortunatly the same can't be said for 'undertwisting' though...


How's that for wisdom?

Oh, my God...you have been sucked in....



Any twist will shoot a 40 grainer..

You going to nut-up this time? (And go 1-8?)

You just made my point.

If any will work with a 40, why not pick the fast twist that also works with the other end of the bullet spectrum?

Admittedly, they're not for everybody...but if you're ever up in Wisconsin, drop me a line and I'm sure that after enough Booker's, cowboy hats will make perfect sense to you.

The problem with tourists is that they have no sense of hat etiquette. Makes those of us that like hats look weird or something.

(by the way I wouldn't throw back a trout that I caught on a worm either, although I'm too cheap to buy a trout stamp so that trout would have to be really unlucky)

Nope!

truth is, if I was gonna re-barrel with a custom ( like my Hart) I'd go ahead and get a little more twist just for the versatility...but the factory Remington tubes I'm shooting have Advantages:
1. They are cheap
2. They shoot better than I am capable of shooting them
3. the twist is working well with the bullet I kills stuff with
4.One Hart Barrel costs 10X as much as a new take-off Remington
5.One Hart wont last quite as long as 10 remmys
6. Did I mention they are cheap...like me?

I could be convinced...and I might be through there next spring...

I hear you..dats why I got the 1 in 10 on my only Hart...


Also see my previous post about being cheap..... ( and yeah..that lapses over into whiskey in big plastic 1/2 gallon jugs once in awhile too.....)

And ice in a bag

As if that's a fast twist.

I'll keep the Booker's handy...rocks with a splash of sour ok?

I'm being overrun with Philistines.

You mean you don't like good bourbon? Seriously, who's the Philistine now?

You are, dipstick!

I love good bourbon. I despise defiling it with additives and ice cubes.

Ice isn't an additive....

You gun shop shylock (I like Sako factory tubes myself!)

Shylock!

that was mean...

Sours are.

And I said additives and ice cubes.

Oops! my Bad!

Ice it is then!

In 3 words instead of one hundred

Converting people to proper scope mounting, one Turd at a time.... grin...

Nice looking rig but you missed the damn dime AGAIN.

Let's run that through the Stick translator in reverse and see what happens...

"Goatphuck twist! I'm cryin' here!"

Just a splash of sour on a double Booker's, rocks...try it and you'll be converted.

Besides, I read somewhere that even Jim Beam himself liked his whiskey with a sprig of mint or something to that effect...I could tell you exactly what Booker Noe said is grandfather mixed with it if I hadn't given someone my whiskey book to read.

I like it the way I like it...at least I don't water it down with cola like an infidel...

I drink whiskey to taste whiskey. Chilling it interferes with that in at least two ways.

Cold anesthetizes the taste buds. Also, it interferes with the evaporation of aromatic compounds which weakens the important olfactory input to the sensation of taste.

Im a heathen..... I melt an ice cube in my glasses of kicken chicken.....

Pendleton's on the rocks for this unwashed heathen...

Who would have thought bourbon would get everybody just as worked up as rifles?

Can we all agree on this much as least: good whiskey is a good thing.

By the way Ingwe, that is a real handy looking rifle...

You guys and your whiskey...

Had a big monthlong session out in the studio here lately. The main guy is a fan of good whiskey. There were "several" bottles of different single-barrel yadda yadda yadda whiskey's out there. I will confess to getting a small taste for the stuff, though I'm not a hard alchohol kind of drinker, usually.

We just drank it straight from the bottle... is that blasphemy, or manliness incarnate? Mathman? Ingwe?

Better than on the rocks or mixed, but you did miss out on the aromatics a proper glass delivers to your nose.

Until you ruin it.

The only two Ai's that make any sense to me are the 223 and 250 Savage versions... nicely done.

I had a whiskey and water the other night... was from a $500 bottle. I still don't think it's good... but we can agree to disagree.

Yeah, 223AI seems (on paper) to add enough poop to make the cartridge genuinly more useful for my purposes. I'll probably hold my nose and do it when it's time to rebarrel my new .223.

As Ive posted elsewhere the .223AI extends my "comfort level" for shooting deer from 200 yds ( regular .223...) to 300 yds (AI)

6 pages and you guys are still somewaht on topic??

That [bleep] ain't right...

I thought donkey balls just needed a little twist right at the end??

Just for you mathman, I'll skip the sour tonight...hell I'll do the first one neat. Think I deserve a little celebration, b this time tomorrow I'll b married.

GTFO!!!!!!!

Congrats!

I'll drink to that! Congrats!

Seriously? Or is that the whiskey talkin'?

No whiskey...seriously...a 300 yd shot is a slam dunko with the AI..don't want to do further cause the little boolit loses steam....
200 yds is a chip shot...

300 yds with the "other " AI...

I was shooting my new .223 out to about 300 yds the other day. The bullets got there.

How much speed does the AI get you Ingwe?

Painfully sober myself... saving my liver for tomorrow night, best friend has an old college buddy in town and it's my birthday and I guess we are gonna.... imbibe.

I'm still pizzed at you for hoarding all those "cheap" 55gr spire points....try that one on a deer or antelope in that AI.

waiting paitently for .223 AI number four and five (at the 'smith right now for the chamber work)...hopefully Arnold isn't drinking too

Tom, that explains why a 22-250 is good out to about 400 yards on deer.....grin


Nice new shootin' iron!

How many fps does the AI'ing add?

Nevermind. ~ 2.5 grains of powder, 100-140 fps.

It's actually very uptow.......er, up-village.

Plastic is good. Plastic don't break or leak. Plastic is only cheap booze until you import it. Then it's expensive.....like $150-200......half gallons more, of course. And good, even Windsour.

Congrats!

And maybe I'll get you converted to proper whiskey just in time.

Not hot-rodding either std or AI in .223 but that camo #7 pictured was getting 3100 fps as a .223 and 3400 as an AI ( 22 in .Bbl..)

Havent clocked the new one with 24 in Bbl...yet.

Pat..I'll make it up to you somehow..

But didn't you know you can't kill deer or lopes with a C-n-C bullet in a centerfire .22 ?


Ya' gotta have magic bullets with blue tips....

No worries toad...Arnold isn't drinking...alcohol is a "gateway" drug to that other stuff he grows under a light in the back room..

Sure smells funny when he grinds a pad back there.....

ingwe, how does the Ackley version of a cartridge compare to the Gibbs? I know the brass is easier with the Ackley from what I've read, but I've never actually used one for comparison. My experience with wildcats is pretty much limited to 8mm Gibbs and a little with the 6.5 Gibbs

I didnt even know there was a .223 Gibbs!

DANG! That means i'll have to build another rifle....

Ingwe are you ignoring that Ruger .223 African?

Yes....its still sitting around here someplace NIB....

I'm glad you are no longer in anguish over your anatomy and have embraced the very small things in life.

LOL.

Shameful!!!!!

Truth be told I bought it as a novelty...its too friggin big and heavy to pack up the hill and actually hunt, and I don't want to AI it so itll probably sit until someone wants it more than me

Technically, Gibbs started at the .240, but as you can see from the chart a .223 would be a relatively simple(although probably barrel burning) proposition.

Got the chart from Dave at CH4D, he could probably hook you up with dies too, if you really think it's a good idea.(Me I'l like to know just how fast that baby would chuck a 55 gr. bullet...

YEP! Dat would eat a barrel!

Aren't you 'sposed to get married today?

You'll have to let the new bride know there might be an old fat guy going through next spring..looking for Bookers...


And tellin' lies.....

Will do...gotta roll...busy day...

Good luck with that!!!

Prayers sent on the upcoming wedding!

far be it from me to blaspheme against one of the most beloved and devoutly worshiped rounds amongst the Campfire brethren....but the fast twist .223 AI is sort of a puzzlement to me as a vehicle to hurl high SD missiles fast.

in most actions, you could just as easily use the .22-250 with 30% more case capacity, order a fast twist barrel, and you're done. No excuse needed to tinker around with a wildcat, just wondering what the perceived advantages of the .223AI are? Lots of cheap mil brass? Burning a few grains less powder? Milder to shoot? cool factor?

Steve..you are talking practicality and logic here..

this is an internet forum...

There's no room for that here....

Tom,

The other Tom insisted.

Would it be a "bad" thing if I said I kinda liked it....?

30% more powder equals about a fifty or so percent reduction in barrel life. If you go with a Savage so you can change barrels yourself, your argument has a point. Unless your gunsmith is a lot faster than mine (and charges a lot less to rebarrel) or you have a 4-jaw lathe in your shop and the experience to run it, the 223AI is a sound choice.

Do you reload? Not having to trim a rifle cartridge very often is an absolute huge time saver.

Schweet!

perfect camo if you're hunting from a Mardi Gras float

THAT would be a sweet avatar! Almost as good as Stick's painted Montucky...

Marty-

Happy Birthday amigo!!! Treat yourself to a new 8.5x50 Viper!

More than a few grains less powder, much longer barrel life, no [bleep] case trimming, far easier to hold on hair and watch everything unfold through the scope in a light rig.

One can burn a LOT of rounds done a 223AI tube. It's nothing to run a few hundred rounds and if you factor in using an extra 40% more powder per pull that factors in a whole bunch as far as tube life and cost.

Did I also mention no case trimming?


Sometimes just enough is just enough. The 223AI is just the right amount for a 22 bore.

Besides, I don't really consider it a wildcat either. Seems if I can buy factory ammo and run it through a rifle it's not a true wildcat.

By that standard, of course, none of the AIs are wildcats. When selling one, if one ever does such a thing, one quickly finds out that it is indeed a wildcat.


I can see the appeal of "a little bit more" of the .223 without the blast and cumulative recoil issues of the .22-250 particularly for high volume varmints. But for a fast twist .22 deer rifle, I think I'd go Swift or .22-250. And just deal with the case trimming. Actually, I'm thinking about going the opposite direction with a 6 x 45 for my next toy.

I'll pay more for an AI in the correct cartridge than not. Considering you get nothing back from a $10 cigar, or from flushing $200 worth of TP down the drain a year, the resale don't factor much.

I'm not inclined to build my rifles to please the huddled masses, else I'd be running nothing but 270's or 30/06's with windage adjustable bases.

223AI is a better mousetrap for killing critters than the 6x45.

But then again I've never been prone to guessing.

Well said...

Scott,

Thanks!

I like the way you think....

I agree, if everybody bought stuff with resale in mind wed all have the same shizz.....

Scopes don't wear out as quickly that way I hear, at least not the windage adjustments.

Not a "bad thing" but a "gay thing".

I can sure buy into the "no case trimming" aspect of the AI.

Did a batch of 500 once-fired LC cases on my little hand trimmer once.

Once.

Its like you described a 222 Magnum to a T...

only mentioned as relevant to the "it's not really a wildcat" argument

I don't give a ratshit about resale, I'm not building guns for the next owner, I'm building them for me.

Scott, tell us about your 6x45. I've been thinking of building one for states like Wyoming that won't let you use a .224 bore...

blatant self-serving .223 AI pics...

the 1-8" Brux barreled heavy pig on the right. my most accurate rifle of all time.



my 1-7" Hart barreled mid-weight 'brass burper'



also in the safe is a boat paddled SS Ruger MKII. i'll have to upload pics of that one one of these days.

Those boat-paddles aren't real photogenic... grin...

Nice rifles!

one of these days, i'll take the hole saws to it...

How about PowerBait?

I actually fished for smallmouths using one of those new-fangled powerbait type things from Berkley..it had a fancier name, and I bought the ones shaped like little crayfish.
Dead drifted where a stream entered into a Canadian lake..they worked GREAT!
Bait for trout....nooooooo...I just couldn't .......

Thats it..I'm going fishing.....

Good idea, think I'll rig up a couple of my little green Johnson reels and drown a few worms this week...

OK......that settles it...

We DO need to sit down with some Bookers and talk....

Fishings starting to get pretty good down here.... no worm drowning goin on though.

Got a good little panfish spot couple of blocks from the house and I have a small collection of vintage Johnsons...and hey, I grew up drowning worms.

When it comes time to fish for butter cats or speckled cats im all for some wigglers.... just don't like the friggin mess in my boat.

Let me guess..........you have a problem with the aspect of using bait to catch bait, dontcha?


Okay, that was mean.

YEP!

Took my little girl and the new wife worm drowning last night. Caught a couple crappies, no keepers though....

How did the unmolested Booker's work for you?

We caught a few.....Some real nice Bgill slabs and a keeper LGmouth bass.

Gonna eat em tonight.

Oh it was horrible, put down a couple and wound up married!!!

No seriously it was good, d@mn good, but I still prefer it with just a splash of sour on a double...rocks.

Guess I'm a heathen that way, huh?

Yep.

Fine sipping whiskey is best enjoyed straight, or possibly softened slightly by the addition of a small amount of still spring water. Not chilled of course.

If you must add ice cubes and/or other adulterants, then something like Jim Beam or Old Forester is a better candidate for such duty.