I recently traded for a used Kimber Montana in 257. Before shooting it, I removed the action from the stock. There was a good sized bump in the stock on the left side where the barrel starts to taper. The barrel wasn't floated very evenly either. Before shooting it, I sanded out the speed bump and opened up the channel for better clearance.

The only ammo that I've shot so far is Hornady 117 SPBT factory. I'm getting about 1.5" for the first two shots and the third is at least 4" to the right. I'm sure that my groups would be better if I let the barrel completely cool between every shot but I wanted to see if I could possibly get a three shot group.

Any suggestions on how to get the most accuracy out of the rifle. I've ordered some Devcon to bed the stock. I'd like to do this before starting my load development. To start, I have hornady 100's and Barnes 80 TTSX and H4350.

Gee, I thought they were all bedded and free floated from the factory.

yet you are always right there with nothing to add but bile...

i suppose you'll PM me again to whine about bein' disrespected.

to the OP, go ahead with the bedding. try a temp. 'speed bump' in the barrel channel (sometimes LW barrels like some contact". also adjust the trigger if you can. both of mine will go down to 2.5#.

I saw one other thread relating to Kimber and accuracy but thought I'd start one of my own.

The "speed bump" was definately a defect from the factory. I removed it and opened the barrel channel up some.

The trigger is actually really good. I'll lighten it a bit though.

I didn't think to try adding a temporary bridge.

For those that have sent your rifles back to Kimber for work, what exactly did they do? re-barrel?

did you clean the barrel to bare steel to start with?

Lighten up dude. Thanks.

No I haven't. I'm doing that tonight and will do so again before shooting the Barnes. I just want to get the bedding job done before working up loads.

I have a Remington LVSF that doesn't settle in until 40-50 rounds.

I'm not too concerned yet. I normally can find a decent handload.

my first Kimber (7mm WSM Montana) started out kinda shaky, but i don't know whether i adapted to shooting the light rifle or the barrel came around, but it slowly got better 'till its a .75 moa rifle now with nothing but a trigger tweak. the second one (.223) shot great right out of the box.

I've never seen a "bad" Kimber,though I have seen a lot of boobs botch fine rifles. Most are stumped at the loading bench,in over their heads with bedding,are clueless about mount/glass selection,favor botching torque values,never give fastener lengths a gawk and are piss poor shots to boot.

Curiously enough,those constants do a rifle's precision no favors.

Flipside being,I've shot more tidy Agg's with rifles that "didn't shoot",than I could begin to count. A rifle can be no better than it's Operator.

I'll admit to being a novice at bedding and could botch a good rifle. Plenty of experience with the rest and confident I can find a decent load.

BS - any advise on bedding the montana?

My 84m Classic 7mm08 shot very well right out of the box. Get the barrel clean snug it down on the rest nice and firm so it dosn't bounce around and it will be fine. I have a frind with a classic in bob and it will shoot most any load less than an inch some right much less.

I bedded mine before shooting but just snugged up the lug. It's sub moa at 300 which ain't far but.......

I bedded my 84M with a thin layer of JB weld. Very easy to do.

Life is short. Sell the [bleep]' junk and get something that shoots.

I call dibs on it.


Seriously, let me know if you want to part with it.

A $1000.00 + rifle shouldn't need a bedding job to get it to shoot, I think I also would sell it and lose the headache, Kimbers are notoriously great or junk, too much of a grab bag for me........Good luck..........HB

I had the action and the first inch and a half of the barrel devcon bedded and took the trigger down to 2 1/4 lb before I fired the first shot. Shot sub inch from the start with Varget and 150 grain Corelokts (308).
Its had about 200 rounds through it now and it's just getting better and better.
Not sure if it takes a bit of time for the gun to settle or it takes time to develop the right bench technique.
Sure feels good when you win at roulette

I have had 3 Kimber Montana rifles. A 30-06 that I never did anything to that shot 1" right out of the box. A 300 Win Mag that I still have that I had the action bedded just like Osix did and it will shoot under 1" with 180 Accubonds and 168 TTSX. The 270 WSM bedded also and the crown redone and will shoot under 1" with 140 Accubonds and 130 TTSX.
I do think that if you get the rifle bedded and check the crown to make sure it is good that you should have a great gun. I do think some of the guys on here have some that need more work but I have been very happy. I have had Sako guns in the past and the two I had both had to have a new tube on them to make them shoot. Does that make Sako guns junk. I don't think so. It was just my bad luck to get two in a row that wouldn't shoot.

This ought to be good for another 6 pages!

you guys must walk around with clouds over your heads, I have 3 of them and everyone of them shoots good.

There are so many places to look, who knows about your scope, your mounts, any handloads or even if you can shoot.

put 47 grains of H4350 into a WW case, put a 100 grain TSX into it at 2.81 inches and go shoot it. Again, what scope, what mounts, can you shoot? Also rest it back by the lug, not at the tip, the tips are flexible. Also I will give you $500 for it sight unseen if you want to sell that POS right now.

I'll go $520! (what is the buy it now price?)

Bedding is an interesting subject and it seems most oft tied to the 82 Trick Move Theorum anymore,which never ain't not good for humor.

While there are many trains of thought and a multitude of approaches to sound bedding,there is in actuality very little to it,unless a Window Licker broaches the subject,concocts a chart and starts flying Imagination.

Old School train of thought,is to craft by hand a mirror image of the receiver,into a given stock's recesses. It's far and away the most expensive way,less any Real World attributes...but it do horn some up for unknown reasons. Apparently some are soothed by the notion that Gregorian Monks chanted mindlessly for 1000's of hours to yield shy of what a tablespoon of bedding compound and a beer would garner. To surprisingly many,making easy schit hard adds to the "results".

Flipside is an inlet generous in relation to the receiver,less any obvious hurdles. It is an inordinate receiver/stock melding that doesn't follow suit there.

Now as to a Kimber Montana proper,one can eliminate a host of unwanted variables right out of the gate. They are not forced into the inlet and bound off kilter with great stresses afflicted the receiver,nor do pillars compress. Have never seen a depth woe,nosedive,muzzle up attitude or one bottomed out on it's lug...they simply get a lot of schit right out of the gate,but I haven't played with more than a few dozen.

Given those constants,the sole mechanical issue that remains is the lug's fit into it's recess. If your lug is dancing all bets are off,capture same and small Agg's are the game.

Some get very horned up with schit that don't matter,though I'm the antithesis and results never don't not interest me. Have never been in a scenario where the talk went "1,2,3, boys...let's examine inlets and take pictures of the bedding". I learned a few hundred rifles ago,that fluff don't matter,so it obviously do not interest me personally.

So long story short,I'd be inclined to expose the lug recess less any paint and simply add a dollop of compound into same and walk away. From there I give fastener length and gorilla torque values serious consideration and mightily apply same. I haven't the time nor inclination to suffer schit glass,so do not,nor am I into schit mounts.

I tend to note the location of sling studs,give them wide berth when forced to slum bags or similar and am a fan of good ammo crafted in accords to a given rifle's preferences.

Headspace and seating depth control are two things that most miss by miles too and many rifles haven't a chance to dazzle,due to the deluge of hamstrung mechanics they're forced to suffer.

Still happily buying Montana's that "don't shoot".

This "Boxer Guy" is quite the purveyor of the Kings English.
He speaketh mostly truisms that are basic and gravitate to common sense in the extreme. If I didn't know I was on 24HCF, I'd think I was reading Shakespeare.

He speaks the truth...

They call it Whoopisms

The rifle has leupold bases/rings and Leupold VXll 3-9. I have talley LW's on order. The scope came off my 243 and functions fine. The last session was off a bench with a good rest.
below is a three shot group at 100 yds from my Winchester 70 300WSM which wears the same scope as the Kimber.



I shot one three shot group with the Kimber. The first two were about 1.5" and the third was about 4" to the right. I let it cool completely and a friend duplicated what I just did. Third shot was about 4" to the right. Shots were about 1 minute apart. The barrel was warm but not hot.

I think bedding will help. and NO the rifle is not for sale....yet

Yep, too many other things that need to be done without having play roulette with a rifle that may or may not shoot. I'll pass on the Kimbers.

Coffee...meet screen.

Absolute classic!

I couldn't correlate the "heat" from 3 rapid pokes in a Montana of any chambering,to being a blueprint for Improved Cylinder 100yd clusters...though I surely could bedding woe(s).

Dealing in known glass,is a great means of scratching away at the list of possible suspects. As per always,a rifle simply can't be any better than it's weakest link and if viewed objectively,the links are in fact numerous. Too many wish to pretend this schit is hard,when in fact it's all a breeze,if/when one is armed with a shred of sense as a minimum. The clueless will continue to point fingers at everything but themselves and chastise routinely splendid wares,as a means of "vindication" for their gross ineptitude. It simply amazes me,at how many are stumped with fasteners alone.

As a routine control,I'd say bang away with a new toy in it's issued guise,if only for giggles. Then allow it to breathe,by giving the trigger pull some love,capture the lug and feed it the best fodder you can. That simple premise will reliably bear fruit and ring the bell.

You'd then have to be having seizures to toss something out of a tidy Agg,or reading a JeffO post as you yanked the trigger and were fighting tears of laughter and a heaving chest writhing to arrange oxygen resupply from the exertion spent belly laughing.

Dabbling a touch deeper,I couldn't personally cuss an unbedded rifle tossing lackluster factory fodder,as a means of an objective evaluation.

But in fairness,god bless the clueless boobs like 'jrd who's sole experience is shooting their mouths...if only for the requisite humor.

It's never not difficult to immediately discern who puts firing pin to primers and who pretends. Anymore,the pretenders abound and they'll happily go to great lengths to prove same,though often on accident.

Bless their hearts.

also try another bullet, mine will not shoot 110 grain accubonds, it will not shoot them at all despite trying with 2 boxes and 3 powders. It will shoot anything else I tried including the 117's. I up the anty $550 sight unseen.

that's funny schitt boxer. My Talley's have arrived and still waiting on the Devcon.

I'll go $600 and I'm lefty!

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/5645955/1

There is some very useful information on this forum....saved me from having a kimber paper weight.

funny how the same boobs don't have any problems getting their tikkas to shoot. after all the problems with kimbers, if you have 500 posts on this board you have lost the right to whine about how crappy they shoot. because its your own darn fault for buying a crappy product.

Funnier yet,that someone thinks a Tikka is viable and you obviously have a very good sense of humor for attempting to pawn such a notion off.

Tough to trump a boob for inherent humor and it's always best when they are making a "point" and trying to be serious.

Bless their hearts.

I've just about convinced myself some couldn't shoot a rail gun accurately and have no idea what to do when a rifle "doesn't shoot".

Bedding? It's a total mystery, voodoo, requires incantations and chain smoking green turds to accomplish.

Straight ammunition? What's that? Course it's all straight. I bought it WalMart and it fits when I close the bolt. I do reload, but some boolits just won't shoot, they are notoriously bad. Nevermind the seating cup of the die is too shallow to allow straight seating. Nope, it's the boolit. Them BarneVLDSierraHornady suck donkey ballz.

Action screws? What to do? Do I add loctite or not?

Base screws? Naw, they couldn't be too long, I got 'em in the right slots and they tightened down didn't they? Loctite, what's that and why would you want to use that? It's just for noobs that don't know anything. Any base made should be straight and be perfectly fitted. After all, they are for the Kimbermingtonchester aren't they?

Pillars? Yep, it's gottem and I read somewhere if a rifle has them, they will always shoot. Must be the barrel, couldn't possibly be they are crooked, off center, bearing directly on the action.

Scope? Nope, can't be, it's a ZeisnLoopieMueller and they are known to be perfect.

Stable, repeatable rest off a bench? What bench? I use a picnic table, flower pot turned upside down to rest the barrel on to shoot off of. What wrong with that?

Shooting with a sling? NEVER, I read somewhere that if you use one, the rifle will shoot different. That's because the sling causes the rifle to recoil differently. Really? Ever think maybe you don't know how to use a sling, their is a pressure point and your pulling the stock away from the original position? Nope. Can't be, thats because I was told this 20oz stock is as hard and stiff as woodpecker lips.

What's two grouping? Some kind of square dance? Homey don't play that.

On and on and on.......

lochsa, this wasn't directed at you nor anyone in particular. Just at those that read and regurgitate that something sucks or doesn't and by God I'm NEVER going to have one them there things.


Here's a little secret or two: there's a reason BR rifles are bedded and free floated. Also a reason why some sell dead length bullet seaters, runout gauges, OAL gauges, different bullets, powders, brass.................................

Good grief.

oh so a tikka isn't viable and a kimber is, goodness sakes how do you figure that.

Campfire Classic....Karnis, nicely said and true.

This thread wasn't intended to Bash Kimbers and wasn't a plea for help. I bought a used gun and after a closer look, it was obvious it had some issues with the stock. It will take a little bit of work to get it shooting. I'm just reporting on what I've experienced so far. I like everything about the gun and intend to keep it.

I appreciate the advise and comments.

That's the whole point and reason for my post. Unfortunately there are some folks that argue if a rifle costs (insert dollar amount) it should shoot better than (insert group size) and if not, it's a POS and shouldn't be on the market or even considered as a possibility.

You are on the right track identifying issues and suspect you'll be happy once you resolve the "problem". It's a process of elimination rather than rocket science with "today's" components/parts, etc.

Thankfully true "lemons" are remarkably few and far between. Of the 60+ rifles I've owned only ONE was a lemon, it was a Remington Mtn rifle in 30-06. From the first few loads I screwed together I knew it was a no go. Bore was way oversized and velocities were unbelievably low as in 2400 fps with a case full of H4350 and 150 gr. cup and core bullets. No Hornady, Sierra, Speer, Nosler of any weight would shoot better than about 4". That was back in the early 80's. It went down the road sure to be rebarreled.

Did I buy any more MR's? Yes, in 30-06, .280, 7x57, .257 Roberts, 7mm-08, etc. and all have been fine with a little fiddling like bedding, cleaning up barrel channels, shortening a screw here and there, adjusting a trigger, reloading straight ammunition, etc.

We've got it good today. No doubt about that.

If you think about it please post results as you go.....

Did you shoot it before you decided to "fix" it? So many people are hell bent on working on a rifle that they forget to see if it shoots good before they play with it. I think a lot of times they do more harm than good to the rifle.

Karnis.....will do.

reelman....I put 17 rounds through it; enough to tell something was not right. Read my previous posts for details. I'd rather "fix" the obvious before wasting countless hours and $$$ chasing loads. We'll see.

Just a question... why is it that people who own Kimbers that shoot think they are so much smarter - better shots that everyone else.... and those of us who have had lemons from Kimber do not know anything....(how to shoot a light rifle, how to reload, how to work up a load, etc) ?

Well I do know the chamber of the montana I bought was not correct to the point it would not even chamber a round.... 3 different factory manufactured rounds (fed, Nosler and Win) Sent it back to Kimber to be fixed....


When will the "I know better than everyone else about Kimbers becasue mine shoots" people admit that Kimber has had some Major quality control issues with their rifles?

+1 (thank you for your great post)

I recently traded for a used Kimber Montana in 257. Before shooting it, I removed the action from the stock. There was a good sized bump in the stock on the left side where the barrel starts to taper. The barrel wasn't floated very evenly either. Before shooting it, I sanded out the speed bump and opened up the channel for better clearance.

OK. From your first post it appears that you started working on it before you ever shot it.

I haven't read anything about some being smarter, better shots or major QC issues posted by anyone. You've decided not to take into account things that are done routinely to fix or improve accuracy. Do a search regarding Montana's having pillars and being bedded from the factory. They do have pillars and they are not bedded from the factory contrary to what you may have read. Using slave actions/barrels to provide a template for production purposes provides many advantages. It doesn't provide the best solution and that's the whole point of the discussion.

Surely you have had rifles that were not bedded, reloaded crooked ammunition, had a scope go haywire, triggers with creep and pull weights of 8lbs+, etc. and tended to them yourself or had someone do it for you. No? If not, buy me a lottery ticket the next time you go to the local Mart.

Rifles with barrels that have no rifling, egg shaped chambers or other issues such as those are not "fixable" by us neophytes. So how does your Montana shoot now?

Do I work for Kimber? Nope. How many have I owned? Three.

Of the three:

1. .308 Select Grade. Shot fine except the groups wandered around on paper. It would routinely shoot 1 1/4" or less except that the groups would be at 12 o'clock, then 2 o'clock, then 1 o'clock. About 15 minutes with a Dremel tool/bit and 1/4 oz of bedding fixed that problem.

2. .257 Roberts Montana. Shot 2"+ groups with factory and reloaded ammo-no matter the boolit, powder charge or OAL. Bedded and cleaned up barrel channel, now shoots TSX's like it should. Same POI all the time, no flyers.

3. .270 Win 84L. Shot pretty well from the get go except that the first shot wandered more horizontally than I would've liked. It might be 2" high and at 9 o'clock one time, 3 o'clock the next, so on and so forth. Took the rifle apart and lo and behold the barreled action was riding hard on the pillars with a relatively "loose" lug. Ground front and rear pillars a bit, added a bit of bedding. Shot it today and the problem went away.

Of the three only the .308 was purchased new. Traded for the other two with members here on the 'Fire.

Bet you a six pack naysayers would've sent all but one down the road and concluded the .270 was the only good one of the group and only because Kimber worked out all the bugs on the 84M before they built the 84L.

Balderdash.

Karnis - Balderdash? Wheeeo! That's right up there with skookum.

Haven't had the need to bust that one out in awhile. Wound up tighter than dick's hatband I am. Hehehehe...

BTW, how's the Kimber 7-em-em-08 doing? In Bridgeport right now, need to meet up at Pleasant Creek if you can swing it.

Excellent post Sako, I have also noticed the same thing with many Kimber owners. I think Kimber rifles are great rifles for shade tree gunsmiths or someone who likes to tinker around with their rifle to make it shoot, I can see how they would have a feeling of pride and accomplishment when they get a rifle that don't shoot and make a shooter out of it, I on the other hand am not a good tinkerer and expect My rifles to shoot right out of the box, which the vast majority do. I should also add that the only Kimber rifle I ever owned I bought new in box, a Mod 84 .308 Win and it shoot fine grouping three shots at 100 yds hovering around 1 inch, the bolt did have a tendency to try and bind a little when I worked the action, needless to say that was several years ago and that rifle has long since gone.............HB

Good deal, why not post a few makes and models so we can benefit and quit wasting time and money. Hate to do that if I don't have to.

TIA.

I don't blame you, some might enjoy it but it would be a pain in the azz for me to have to do all that work to make My rifle shoot. My advise would be to try a Browning X-Bolt rifle, I have owned more than a few and every one was an MOA shooter right out of the box with factory ammo, also had very good luck with Remington Mod 700 rifles as most of these have been shooters, if you want some more gunsmith work try a Ruger 77 Hawkeye.............Good luck...............HB

I should also have mentioned the Sako Mod 85, I have owned a half dozen or so of these rifles in assorted calibers and found them to be for the most part MOA shooters right out of the box. I sold all mine though as I never warmed up to Sako's cheesy clamp on scope mounting system, other than this I found Sako rifles to have superior fit and finish and be extremely well made, I would also shy away from Weatherby's MKV Ultra-Light rifles as I made many expensive tries for a shooter here with no luck, these rifles would also be a good project for a shade tree gunsmith, a good home bedding job might do wonders............HB

Brownings do shoot well, just don't like the ergos or the lozenge for a bolt knob. Have a bunch of Remingtons(Ti, M7, 700s) , MKII's, Hawkeyes, M70's, Mark X's, converted military Mausers, the aformentioned Kimbers and a couple of ARs. All have benefited (some more so than others) with some tinkering.

Trust me, if your not tinkering, you are missing out-if nothing else it will keep you awake at night. It also tends to cause you to lose hair by prolonged head rubbing or hair pulling when it takes awhile to find the loose screw.

Then again, it might just be the loose nut on the controls.

Luck to you as well.

I agree, Browning ergos aren't for everyone and Maybe I do need to tinker a little, I don't sleep at night anyway, it would give Me something to do besides wandering aimlessly from room to room through the house all night........Grin..........HB

I have had several Sakos, including a couple M85,and I have to agree with you on this point.

Not that it doesn't work ok, but the mounting flexibility just isn't there. The scope always seems to end up mounted higher than I'd like it.

The other thing that I don't like is an injection molded stock on a rifle in that price range. You shouldn't need to add $500 to a M85 to make it acceptable. It is too expensive to start with.


As far as Brownings go, I had a few early on, and they were all fine shooters. I am with Karnis on the Ergos though, and in general they just don't have the classic style I prefer.

After reading all the bad reviews on Kimbers, I was afraid my 270 WSM Montana wouldn't shoot to my specs. When I was sighting it in I used the red box 130 gr. Winchesters because they are less expensive than most 270 WSM ammo. It would shoot 2" at 100 yds. I turned to my son and said I'm going to have to sell this rifle. Then I tried a three shot group with Winchester Elite 130 gr. XP3 ammo. It has a 3x10x42 Swarovski 4A retical on it. It will shoot the XP3s in a 1/2" group all day long. I've never tried any other ammo in it but XP3s worked great on a 180 lb buck last year. I shot him at about 100 yards and he didn't take a step.
I have 4 new boxs of Winchester Elite 130 gr. XP3 ammo on my shelf waithing on November to get here.

Sounds like you got a shooter, that 130gr XP3 bullet should do a great job, Winchester advertises the XP3 as their best do all bullet.............Good hunting.........HB