Do they serve any purpose on a hunting rifle? Do you have them on yours?

In the near future I'm going have a .280 Rem built and want a fluted bbl. Do you need a heavier contour in order to have the flutes?

I've seen gun writers and manufacturers claim that the flutes actually stiffen the barrel.

I would have to see that proven to believe it.

If you want to reduce the weight of your rifle, they can certainly do that. Fluted barrels will also cool a little faster because they have more surface area. Not sure that matters on a hunting rifle though.

I think they look pretty neat, but don't have any with flutes.

JM

Never could follow the reasoning of going for a bigger tube so you can flute it.

I'll likely never have one fluted unless it's bought second hand. I have better things to spend money on, like new tubes.

6 flutes cut in my STW number 4 contour barrel.Saved roughly 5 onces.Will I ever do it again.....NO

I believe that given barrels of EQUAL WEIGHT - the fluted barrels are slightly stiffer.

or to look at it another way, it allows you to go up in contour without as much weight.

Folks seem to be able to pack both fluted and non fluted barrels just fine and both types shoot really well.

Six of one, half dozen of another.

I guess that answers part of my question. I'd have to get a bigger tube then, which I don't want to do.

Never did understand how removing metal made a barrel stiffer.

Trying to make it fit a stock?

..........Do have a fluted barrel on my Mk5 Acumark.

Fluted barrels save on rifle weight somewhat, and although I may be wrong, it is also my understanding that they dissipate barrel heat a little better than conventional non fluted barrels.

Some barrel makers won't flute anything less than a #4.

And I don't have a number 4 from anyone on anything.

Looks cool.

It doesn't. Jim said it earlier, a fluted barrel is stiffer than a round barrel of the same weight.

It follows from the fact that more of the cross section is farther away from its centroid, so the fluted cross section has a higher moment of inertia than a round one of the same area.

No. Will order the stock first. Then get the bbl.

You will gain very little as far as weight is concerned but sometimes a little here and there do add up. From everything I have ever read there really is no stiffness increase but the cooling factor does come into play as already mentioned because of surface area. I have even read any gain the possible stiffening fluting might create is offset by the decrease in pure mass. So for these reasons is it worth the extra money? To each there own.

The one factor not talked about much is the "cool" factor. Let's face it we like cool looking rigs.

Key word being, " Of the same weight..."

If you have 2 barrels that are the same weight and flute one, it cannot be as stiff as the unfluted barrel, at least not to my simple mind.

And I know a fella with centroids. Had to have them surgically removed.

JM

That's the "it doesn't" part of my answer.

Fixed that for you.

Because if you flute a barrel of the same contour, the contoured one is now lighter..

And will be stiffer than a smaller contoured tube of the same weight..

Lets talk about boobs.

I don't need it to cool faster because it's not going to be a bench rifle. I'm not looking for a real light weight rig either, nor do I want a larger than needed tube for something that isn't going to be of use to me.


It looks like flutes are off the list.

That's cause you're old and soft...........

If ounces matter, get flutes.

Would a 20" #5 be less stiff than a 24" fluted #4 then if they weighed the same ?

I am not a metallurgical engineer, but...

I don't believe in the value of fluted barrels. As stated, for a given weight the fluted barrel in theory will be stiffer, although there isn't that much in it because the loss in stiffness with fluting is actually greater than the loss in weight. So if you remove say 20% weight, you will lose about 30% stiffness. I have seen no evidence that the whole cooling thing actually works - in fact the experiments i have seen have actually suggested fluted barrels may heat up faster!. When you think about it, a round barrel just has more metal to soak up the heat which tends to offset any benefits thru enhanced convection. And conduction into the surrounding metal is much faster. Of course, the other issue is, has your barrel getting too hot ever been a problem when you are actually hunting. If it has, i would suggest it is your markmanship you need to work on, not your barrel.

The big problem with fluted barrels seems to be that they just aren't done properly. As a simplification, most people put the flutes in such a way that then introduces stresses into the metal and may affect the bore. You can make a whippy barrel produce great accuracy, if you take the time to carefully tune your ammunition to the harmonics of your barrel. You will never get a barrel with unrelieved stresses or non-uniform bore to shoot great. And this only gets worse as a barrel heats up. So if you want a fluted barrel, make sure you get one from a reputable barrel maker - and it'll cost you a lot.

Another observation i'll make is that most fluted barrels i see are done to produce a relatively stiff but lightweight barrel. But they are done in stainless steel. If you want a stiff barrel for weight, i would suggest my understanding is that you are still much better off with plain, old, boring Cr-Mo steel, which is still significantly stiffer than any of the stainless steels currently being used in rifle barrel manufacture. There are some promising aerospace stainless steels out there, which come close to Cr-Mo steel, but they aren't being used in rifle barrels as yet (to the best of my knowledge).

If you really want a stiff, lightweight barrel, i'd currently be looking at the CF-wrapped barrels. Personally, i am sticking with my plain old boring blued steel sporter barrel - which is giving me sub 1/2 MOA accuracy.

I see I was too casual in my conversation by not constraining the length.

Just seeing if you were paying attention.........


My next question was going to be about indexed fluting...

Played around with Lilja's barrel weight calculator for a possible project.

For a .284, 24" barrel:
Standard #4 weighs 3.20lbs
Standard #2 weighs 2.69lbs
A fluted #4 weighs 2.54lbs

It is my understanding that fluting a barrel does not increase stiffness, but going to a larger contour that is fluted is stiffer while weighing the same.

Unless you've just gotta have it, for a one shot one kill big game rifle, I just don't see any sense in it.

I like the theories in support of a fluted barrel, and like the looks, so my latest build has a fluted #4. When deciding on the interrupted vs straight fluting, the guys at Brux thought the interrupted fluting would offer marginally more stiffness, so that's the way I went.




John

A3 or A5?

On a light weight they're outa the question all together. On a sporter weight they look cool as with a varmint or larger tube. I had Karl spiral flute my varmint barrel on my 223 AI and love how it looks......that said I will have a hard time doing it again because what you spend on flutes will pay for half another barrel.

Then again bolt flutes do nothing and the price is worth it to me.....lol?

they are cool as chit!!! that being said i have a few and know for the cost i could be half way to another barrel... cool yes but worth it?? maybe? just for cosmetics in my book!

actually the spiral flutes in the bolt can help rid an action of dirt and sod and stuff.... don't ask... it's works good though!!!

Hurry and buy that Extreme Weather and then you will have

I like my 2 rifles that have fluted barrels. One is a FN PBR XP 300 wsm and the other is my winchester model 70 extreme weather. If you want one then get it!!!!!!

Wish they still made the original "Extreme Weather" rifle..


[color:#990000][u]Winchester CS Extreme Weather II[/u][/color]

Yeah, but they were damn expensive!!!!!! But you are right they were nice and you could even get one in left hand. Come to think of it Roy, my FN PBR XP 300WSM is basically one except in a blued finish. Better trigger (old style) but mine was worked over by the boys at FN.....

This was my favorite (but don't tell BobinNH that)


[color:#990000][u]Mod 70 Custom Ultimate[/u][/color]

That barrel is hideous.

It was available in many shapes including round.

I hate round barrels. Can't sit anything on them.

Hear that!

Only a dummy would have a hunting rifle with a fluted barrel.

Here's pics of two of my more recent rifles...

.338 Win Mag on bottom. Since it hasn't hunted yet can it can it be considered a hunter?



My 6.5-06AI. I built it for long range play, but it has hunted and killed.

I've seen a Custom Ultimate with an octagon barrel and it was cool as can be.. Spendy little suckers though..

Remington Hunter.

John

I like spiral flutes.





On the inside of the barrel.

Wonder if they could be made deeper for faster cooling?!

John

Want vs. Need......If you want'em get'em. Getting what you want is number one priority when building your rifle.

Another way to think about this:
Standard #3 contour barrel has no flutes
Lightweight #3 contour barrel is fluted

Good luck with whatever you get.


Note:
For a new factory hunting rifle the Winchester M70 EW looks great with flutes !

Thanks Hondo. Got some meat on that fore end.

Who cares if they serve a purpose? I haven't built the last few rifles to serve a purpose. They look cool, and that's what having more guns than you can remember is all about.

As it was mentioned, they look good and they shave some weight.

tzone,

Since I don't remember if I posted on this thread or not, I will give you my experience with a fluted barrel. I had a Savage rebarreled with a .25-06 barrel from Midway. The barrel was about $135. It is the lightest 24" I could get so that the muzzle measured about .550". This barrel was the first customer's the funsmith was going to work on with his new equipment. He took fourteen ounces out of it by cutting eight flutes as deeply as he could with a 1/4" cutter.

It was rechambered with a .257 Weatherby reamer ant then coated with JoelKendrick's Nitride bath (1(704)616-6442). Since a barrel has to be finished with something I did this. It looks very good to me.

To started with some of the loaded ammo from a box I worked up for the factory Mark V I had last year; which I sold because it was too heavy. The load consisted of Weatherby brass, Federal 215 Magnum primer, IMR7828@72 grains, Barnes 100 TTSX. The first two three shot groups were 11/16" each. The bolt was a little sticky so pulled the bullets. I dropped to 71 grains and fired five groups at 300 yards. One was 3 15/16". The other four were between 2 1/4" and 2 3/4".

This is typical of Savage rifles whether they are heavy barrel, thin barrel or this fluted barrel. It certainly cools faster than I am used to.

And some barrel makers think stainless steel is too weak for barrels under a #4.

I have never heard of a Remington LVSF blowing up and those were like .650" at the muzzle @ 22". That would be the equivalent of what, a #2 right?

A .04 or .05" depth flute on a #2 would still have a greater diameter, at the weakest point, than a Remington mountain rifle, and 60-80% (depending on width of flute) of the barrel's diameter would still be larger than a mountain rifle.

I guess you could blow a tune with a fluted barrel if you got bored.

There's a reality check. I like the way they look and it played a part in my decision to buy a particular rifle that I really, really didn't need. Although I did find ways to justify it in my own mind, once I had it in my hands. It's funny how it's actually easier to fool yourself than anybody else. I might go on an elk hunt some day, right?? I say looking cool is reason enough and if there's any real benefit, it's icing on the cake.

Cooper M54 Excaliber's are .610" @ 22" with .04" depth flutes, for reference.

Maybe a divining rod for football picks...

I would need 6 of them. LOL

Like Steelhead mentioned, I'd hate to carve a nice stock to tight tolerances for a flutted barrel. Typical barreled-action bedding would certainly provide more avenues for pine needle, dust, dirt, and snow/ice entry into the stock/barrel voids. Maybe for a cool looking wall hanger, but not for one of my functional units.

I don't think that's it's dangerous to flute a barrel that's lighter in contour, I was just stating that his choices might be limited as to what he could get fluted. Guess I should have stated that more clearly. Just my personal preference that if I went with the flutes, I would only have it done by the barrel maker so that any heat treating needed would be done by the maker and final lapping as well so that the barrel meets spec and proper stress relieving as well.

Regarding the stainless and minimum contours, I think that's a bunch of BS as even Crucible states that their 416R is safe to use in temps as low as -40F in sporter contours.

1minute,

The Savage I have used to have a 26" heavy barrel. Now it has a thin barrel. It has enough room between the barrel and plastic stock for twigs to get in. Looks it does't have, but it is lighter by a bunch.

The bottom one is great.Haven't see too many like that.

Yeah, as discussed in other threads, it may not be the ideal fit for that forend. It is a compromise. I didn't want to go heavier or lighter in barrel, and after discussion with McMillan, decided the #4 Brux would just be too tight a squeeze in the McMillan Hunter, as opposed to the Remington Hunter I finally selected.

John

Didn't take what you said as a claim. Was just pointing out some examples of how much (little) that #4 manufacturer requirement may be worth.

What was my purpose for this?

I see no practical advantage to the fad of fluted barrels. If you like them fine.

I do like to look of an octagon barrel but they are not practical except on a full custom built for looks.

"If you don't know what shape to make something then make it round."

Spencer,

That is a GREAT looking rig. What are the details?

John

If you have two barrels the same weight and one is fluted it will be stiffer due to the increased / greater surface area.

My Blue Rifle:

700 SA
284win
22" PN SS (I don't know the contour)
McMillan Rem Classic, 50% Black, 25%white, 25%blue
Wyatt's Box
Calahan Firing Pin Assymbly, Blue shroud of course
All flutes- Blue dura-coat, or cera-kot, or one of them, somebody did the work for me.
I don't have a weight on her, but She handles nice.

I think flutes look cool, but do I think they hold an advantage in cooling over non fluted barrels? not enough to notice really, I have both fluted and non fluted barreled rifles and don't notice any difference in cooling time between them and there's very little weight savings on the rigs I have with #2 barrel contours, should be a noticeable weight savings with a heavier contour barrel, but again I do like the look, which is also a personal thing.............HB