Went out and shot the Remington Model Seven LS in 7mm-08 Remington. It has a Simmons 2-7X32 Prohunter on top. I'm thinking it doesn't like the Hornady Superformance ammo with 139 grain SST's. I'm really hoping it's just the ammo and not something bigger. Any thoughts?

I've tried the Superformance ammo in 308 and 30-06. My guns don't like it either. That would be my 1st guess

If those shots were without allowing the rifle to cool, it looks like you should expect from a Seven.

You try a different scope?

Looks like a light barrel heating up. I suspect that if you take longer between shots, you won't have a problem.

Try some standard velocity SST's, Federal 140 Nosler BT's or Accubonds. Superformance shot very poorly in my model 7 7mm-08.

David

Thats what my 308 groups look like using superformance ammo. But if I use the regular sst loads it shoots 3/4" groups

Could be barrel heating up was an issue. I allowed anywhere from 6 to 10 minutes between shots and the temperature was in the low 40's. Knew it probably wasn't enough time.

That's enough time. Try different ammo. Check your shooting technique. Is the barrel floated?

It's a Remington.

laffin.

Float and bed that sucker. Thats some nasty stringing going on there. You may be able to get away with playing with different ammo, but it looks like you gotta bed and float it to me.

butt hole.....

I would normally say the barrel heating up but 6-10 mins in the low 40's should have been enough time. I would try different ammo first

Suspect float/bed required, but, having put lots of rounds through a laminate 7 in 7mm-08, and seeing similar behavior even after floating & bedding, I'd like to relay that of every rifle stock I've ever shot from sandbags, the M7 lammie is by far the most sensitive to rest and hold.

So- be VERY aware of making sure it's rested exactly the same from shot to shot.

Easy there, Browning Boy!

Shoots like my .260 Model Seven. Bedded, floated, recrowned, etc. I finally settled with 1 1/2" groups.

That is about what my 7mm08 model seven did with the factory barrel. I got to checking targets and the first shots (I mark my targets shot order) with a cold barrel laid on top of each other had about a 1/2 inch spread. It now has a pacnor barrel punched to AI, and shoots real good. miles

Think it would be worth it to bed the action, float the barrel, and get some trigger work done?

Yep.

Ive got a M7 CDL in .22-250 that shot patterns...instyead of groups, till I floated it....

I'll bet that nothing is wrong with the rifle.

Believe me, I've seen things look a lot worse with factory ammo. Try some fusion and some federal premium though. Just keep in mind that with how expensive factory ammo is, that you are getting into territory where you should think about a rockchucker and rolling your own. 7-08 is very easy to reload for.

I'd also lose the scope. You could have a Leupold 6x with Talley Lwt rings for under $300 if you go used on the scope. Better scope/rings with a trigger job could really shrink those groups.

If you've done all of that, and you still can't get it to shoot, then send it to someone who has a clue to get it floated/bedded.

I had awful groups with my .243 M7; I had to pillar bed and float and now I am under 1" with factory ammo.

I suspect it is the superperformance ammo. Try a few others before you spend a lot of money on it. The superperformance I shot in all four guns with sst bullets did no better than 3" groups at 100. Switch to a different ammo and presto, back to just over an inch

Y' can't judge a rifle by the first type of ammo you shoot in it. Definitely, if you're not a handloader, go buy a box each of a few different brands of ammo with different weights and types of bullets.

That said, I had trouble with my last 3 model Sevens.

If I were looking for a light rifle, I'd probably do something else.

Tom

Try Federal Fusion ammo.

Try fake floating the barrel and keep it cool. Hold it on the bags exactly the same.

If the rifle shoots well, which almost all Sevens do, then you've got to fix the problem with the flimsy forend. Two options: float it like crazy, or take the real easy route and bed it tight with the barrel for about the front 3". Pretty much works every time.

What would be the better option to bed the front 3" or to float it?

I have a Seven LSS in 7mm-08. It flat didn't like Hornaday Light Magnum 139 gr. ammo, shot 8 inch groups at 100 yds. I have best handload with 145 gr. Speer spitzers that will put three into 3/4" every time, if I do my part. shot three Hornaday's - 8". Let rifle cool, shot three 145 speer handloads - 3/4". Repeated both one more time, cooled rifle between, same results.

Anything done to it or is it all factory?

Welcome to Model 7's...

I'll never screw with another...

I'll second (or third) what Calvin and DakotaDeer said about trying the Federal Fusion ammo.

Last year, I shot the factory Fusion ammo from my .270 and shot several sub-M.O.A. groups. Not being one to leave well-enough alone, this year I bought two boxes of Nosler Trophy Grade ammo with Accubond bullets. I thought the "buy two get one free" deal was too good to pass up for a guy shooting factory fodder, as it made the Nosler ammo less expensive than the Fusion.

I was at the range today in prep for Monday's opener, and the Nosler ammo would shoot only about 1.5" at best in MY rifle.

Luckily, the POI for the Fusion was nearly the same when I shot the last - and best - group of the day with it. Either ammo is good enough for hunting, but the accuracy of the Fusion factory ammo has really impressed me.

Has anyone checked the screws? Could be too loose or too tight.

I have a custom shop M 7 Mannlicher .257 Bob that will shoot 3 shot half inch groups. The next two can go anywhere. Since I seldom shoot more than one shot at game (this year I shot an unneeded second shot at a buck) I am not concerned about more than three shot groups. If you need to shoot five or ten shot groups, get a rifle with a heavier barrel.

Probly just the ammo. Try Fusion or blue box Federal, or green box Remmy. I have several 7's, none are bedded and they shoot very well. Light rifles are a whole different animal to shoot. You've got a sweet rig there...

The diagonal string suggests that there might be a rifle inherent issue. However, as well as it keeps the shots together, presumably at 100 yards, I think I'd try other ammo. Some plain old Interlocks, Federal loads, or other basic ammo around 140 grains might prove that the rifle is okay. Then again, you may still see the diagonal tendency which may or may not matter to you if it groups small enough strings. It's a YMMV deal. What won't hurt is to improve the optics as you are able. Resolving ability trumps magnification. Reliability is sometimes equaled, never trumped.

So glad I spent sooo much time trying to choose the best rifle to start my 11 year old with. Already have the .260 Model 7 shipped. Can't wait to pull my hair out........

I thought people loved these things and they were the Catz Azz for a lightweight rifle? Sincerely hoping Santa doesn't deliver a Lemon. Guess an 11 year old doesn't know what good groups are anyhow? As long as we can get a milk jug to explode at 100 yards he will be happy. Hate to put in a ton of work, research, scouting, time, fuel, etc for a miss due to equipment. Maybe the milk is not quite spilled yet?

My Vanguard SUB MOA hates the Superformance stuff, 3 to 4" groups. Will shoot a lot of other ammo into 1/2", I'd try something else before doing anything.

I'd not worry until you see. The Sevens I've shot have largely been good shooters. Even one of the worst, my own three screw 7-08 has such a pile of critters to its credit that any miss I encounter is a shooter issue. I can't say I miss more with it than I do with more consistent rifles. But then, I do hunt from field positions which tends to blur the itty-bitty group thing. But I have have shot some very nice groups with M7s in 243, 7-08 and 308, as well as a rebarreled 358. Even my own 7-08 made a recent turn around when I dropped it into a H-S stock.

Dude, one rifle on one thread don't mean jack.

+1..


Ive got two model Sevens, with minor adjustments they both shoot well....

Laff'n! Took a Mcmillan and new barrel to fix my son's M7 260. The factory synthetic stock just plain sucks though I've seen they made a few changes since. Hopefully they added to the rigidity beside the ripples for grip.
The OP has a laminated model I believe, a good thing.
Luck!

I have a 3 hole m7 in 308 that I can't seem to get decent groups out of either. Replaced the schnabel wood with a newer factory synthetic well floated but still it's a 2-3 inch gun. As a last ditch effort before re-barreling, I've pulled the factory sights off it in hopes that was causing weird resonance issues. I'll dick around with temp forend bedding for a bit but i've got a sporter weight sps takeoff bbl sitting here that I keep threatening the inaccurate sob with.

I put a sporter weight 308 on on M7, cut it to 21" and it's now a shooting SOB. It's still a PIA when it comes to feeding.

Steely - how does that rifle handle with the new barrel? Currently the 18.5" pencil makes a great carrying rifle. I'm also concerned that I'm gonna have to hog out a bunch of plastic to get the barrel floated.

My feeding issues went away when I got the synthetic stock. Dunno why.

I don't know, but if you figure it out let us know. I had a Remington Model 7 SS/Synthetic in .260. I tried hard to get that sucker to shoot. Scopes, rings handloads, and floating barrel. then I gave up and sold it. With as much as I paid for that gun, $700 (new), I expected it to shoot. My groups looked more like shotgun patterns. I don't mind a little tinkering, but if I have to bed, recrown, replace the trigger and replace the stock, I have to figure that into the price. I found my money to be better spent elsewhere. Others here seem to have had good luck with them. I would say they need trigger work and my synthetic stock was a heavy piece of crap made from reground plastic. At the time, stock and trigger options were few, probably now more, but they still cost $$. Haven't bought a Remington product since, and don't plan to in the future unless something changes. YMMV

I like it much, always thought the original form was too barrel light.

Now that's the deal, kind of like my 700 Youth (20" wish it was 21") with a Ti wrappped around it. One of the bestest handling rigs I've ever owned. And, it even feeds well enough for me.

Dober

Are you guys shooting the 120 grain Fusions or 140's?

Are you kidding me, 6-10 Mins between shots and you dont think that was enough time, that barrel shouldve been stone cold in 3 with temps in the low 40s, mine are.
I got 2 groups like that at 300yds with my new 308SPSS, that was using lapua brass & 178HPBTs, Win brass never shot groups like that, barrel never got past being warm. Only thing I can figure out is the Lapua braas is allowing higher pressure since it holds less powder.
Is this the only group you shot with the Superformance?

I load 40.5-41.5grsgrs varget(friends rifles) with 139 Hornadys, shoots great groups.

Nope not kiddin' ya. Nope I have another group I can post up, but I made scope adjustments on that target.

Same here.

Does it look the same?

Not quite, but I made scope adjustments. I'll post it up in just a minute. It's a new style Model Seven with the 20" barrel if that makes a difference.

Here is the other target I shot. This was about a week before with the same Superformance ammo and this target had scope adjustments during the group.

So it looks like this? Its not freefloated, right, that might help if its NOT a skinny barrel, skinny barrels usually like some pressure, bedding is a waste of time, INMO.

Whats the scope you have mounted to it? Youre mounts are secure and all that, correct?

Try some plain ol' Remington Green box Core-Loc's,they shoot way better for me than Fusions,then suspect the rifle,scope and the fact it's a Remington

Dont tell him to use that crap Remington ammo, 40.5grs varget or RE15 under 139Hornnady SPs are the ticket, course now Im not sure if he reloads, EEK!! In that case Id get some Win premiums loaded with 140NBTs. If they dont shoot nothing will.

Yep, looks just like that except the open sights are still installed. No I don't reload. The screw on the bases have blue loc tite on them and the rings are all tight. It's a Simmons Prohunter 2-7X32. Came on the gun. Probably time for an upgrade. Its in Leupold rings and bases. I have an extra set of Warne rings I could put on instead, but I would have to get some weaver style bases.

I have been fighting with a remington model 7 youth since they first came out. A 243. It is better since i bedded it and free floated the barrel. It is a under 2" 100yrd gun now. Before it was bedded and free floated it was a over 2 1/2" 100yrd rifle. The best it ever shot was with 100gr remington coreloc ammo. Trigger is good, scope is good, mounts are good. I honestly think remington just put junk barrels on some model 7 rifles. Rebarreling it is on my to do list

The model 7s I reload for are the stainless/synthetic models and nephews blued/walnut version, both parties tell me the accuracy with the 139s is outstanding, the stainless version shoots 1/2MOA(3 shots)out to 100yds anyways. Those Superformance rounds are pretty hot loads as far as velocity goes anyways, maybe theyre just too damn fast.

Could be. But I think it might be more likely a junk job of putting the rifle components together. Seems to me that it hasn't been unusual to see 7/700s which only bear on one lug. Sometimes these rifles shoot very well when they're not loaded to the gills, presumably because high pressure loads tend to cause more flex in parts which don't fit quite as they should. But it could also be the barrels. I think the light, wispy barrels take more care to produce well. Mass production may not do quite as well as the lower volume custom barrel makers can. Then again, Remington seem to have a pretty good track record with their Mountain Rifles, and those barrels are svelte.

Any factory rifle should shoot to a 1 1/4" out of the box with off the shelf ammo.It should NOT require anything Premimum to do so.To me,that's the largest group allowable.Any rifle built in the last ten years can/should do this. Does this rifle have any history of accurcy? New/Used?
A 100 year old,well that a different story for later...

A pressure point is a waste of time if the barrel is not completely cool after every shot.

I am not trying to be a smartass, but can you shoot 1/2"-3/4" groups with rifles you own now? That eliminates a big variable real quick. If you are accurate with another rifle, you could swap scopes and eliminate the optics. In my opinion, it is probably the factory ammo.

I had an early M7 7-08, walnut and blue with an 18.5" barrel and sights. It was a booger to get to shoot and I tried a variety of powder and bullets, the last series before selling it was Nosler BT's, 120's, then 140's and finally 150's that shot the best of everything I had tried. I thought I needed another 100fps so I sold it to buy a Win FWT 7-08, like a dummy.

I float and bed every rifle and normally before I even fire a shot downrange.

The barrel on the model 7 doesnt look skinny to me, not like on the Mtn rifle anyways, therefor Id freefloat that sucker pronto. And he did mention he let the barrel cool 6-10mins between shots. Id also take the action out of the stock to see if there's anything that might be taking up space in there, twig, some sort of metal shaving, etc. etc.

Did you carry the same charge weight from WW to Lapua brass?

If these two 3 shot groups are totally separate, the left group is actually pretty good, the group on the upper right maybe just needs to be snugged into your shoulder a bit more, I get terrible horizontal stringing if I get lazy and dont snug the butt into my shoulder with my 708.

Indeed I did, 47.5grs 2000MR, now I have the lapua loads seated out further to give it more space in the case. so I loaded 3 different loads at 2.905", 2.925" & 2.945" oal. The 178HPBT is kissing the lands at 2.960". Also loaded some Lapua cases with 43grs RE15 seated at 2.9"oal.

I haven't used 2000MR, so no comment there. But in general, Lapua 308 brass wants a bit less powder than WW. They're close to opposite ends of the brass spectrum, the WW weighing close to 155 grains and the Lapua around 173.

Im hoping that seating the bullet out farther will help, but contemplating lowering the powder charge, which Ive done already and didnt get really good groups.

Gorskij
Your discussion of seating the bullet further out does not pertain to this thread! Talking 2.9" only serves to pizz off model 7 owner. It's kinda like telling a tikka 223 shooter to seat his bullets to the lands. pffft.

Like most everyone else is saying.. float it .. bed it. Or you are getting some heating issues and some crazy harmonics. The cheapest is give it 5 mins between shots.. change ammo.. or try one of those Sims vibraton dampners (rubber donut) that slides over your barrel.

Just found a target I shot earlier this year. The date says March. This is with Winchester 140 grain powerpoints. Was gonna get some of these on Friday, but they were $39.99! Ballistic Silvertips were $44.99 and the only other thing they had were 120 grain Fusions. This load shot pretty good from 100 yards, but I did have one flyer.

For the last time, buy some Fusions!

Ha, ok I mine as well give them a try, should I get the 120's or 140's?

From the looks of that target your rifle likes 140 grain bullets. MidwayUSA has 140 grain Fusion in stock for $27.99.

It doesn't look like there is anything wrong with the rifle or the shooter, just the ammunition. I would still bed the action and float the barrel.

Try both or you will never know which shoot better in your rifle..

What I did with my 20" SS/syn 7-08 was to first put it in a laminated stock I got from a CF member. The syn stock is just too weak especially in the forend, and in my experience the thin 7 bbl does not do well with a free float all the way.
I bedded just the lug with Devcon, floated the barrel, and bedded about a 3/4" strip about 2" in from the tip of the forend just to stabilize the barrel without upward pressure...and then just slightly snugged the action screws while curing. When done, I torqued the front 30 and the tang 25 (in-lbs). The result was sub MOA groups with 120BT's, 120TTSX's, and 139Horn with Fed210/H414.

So, what I did was very little and got, what I think, very good results. I also adjusted the trigger to 3 lbs. The Rem brass was just annealed and the necks turned to .013" just to true them up. With a stable stock, a tablespoon of Devcon, and some attention to detail, I turned my so so rifle into a real shooter for a hunting class rifle.

Piss on the Fusions, send me your brass and Ill load you up some 139 Hornadys, $10/box, plus whatever shipping comes to, Im serious.

Check this out, the first Model 7 I loaded for was a bone stock Stainless/Synth, all I did was loaded 40.5grs Varget, 9 1/2 primers, Rem brass and the rifle shot a .505" group at 100yds. The stocks on those rifles are very strong, dont kid yourself.

Strength is not the issue, flexibility is, and they are flexible, especially in the fore end. My SS 7-08 has never been a fine shooter, but it kills stiff well anyway. Friends who liked my rifle (but never shot it) also bought them and their's shot very well for me when I developed loads for them. I've had similar good results with even earlier walnut stocked rifles in 243 and 308. I messed with mine, added aluminum and epoxy to the fore end to stiffen it, moved the pressure point rearward, tried full free float, etc. Nothing has ever made it shoot significantly better until I dropped it in a H-S Stock.

Is this the stock you speak of? The Model 7 I held seemed very stiff, pretty much just like my H-S stocks are, cant imagine this stock would have any or much flex.

The 3 hole m7 in 308 I'm playing with now came in a wood schnabel stock. I bedded it and it still shot 3 inches. Put it in a newer synthetic and it still shot the same. I've decided it ain't the stock.

Maybe it was that dadgum hazard county water, Uncle Jessie, haha

Take the pressure point off the front end and it moves very easily. The barrel gives the stock some support, not an especially great thing to expect of the wispy barrel, and it should be the other way around. The stock is injection molded and largely hollow. It seem to be some type of glass-filled polymer. It certainly doesn't seem like PE or PP however; something harder, more rigid, and brittle, (if not for the included glass.) Both of the two I have show scrapes and gouges. Epoxy sticks real well, and paint, I'm sure, would as well.

Are the Ruger lightweights with the short 16.5 inch barrel also finicky with accuracy like the Model 7 seems to be?

Ive had 3 of those POS stocks.

.308 Model 7 SS
.260 Model 7 SS
Currently owning a 7RSAUM Model 7 SS

They were all flimsy POS's. I replaced them with EDGE stocks till it dawned on me I can't shoot 6 pound guns, so my &RSAUM will get a McSwirley.

The Remington stock as are other tupperware stocks may be flimsy, but if the barrel does not touch the stock under its own weight, it should have limited affect on accuracy.

I certainly agree a pressure point may tighten groups but don't expect to group well without cooling the barrel down completely and also expect changes to the POI with a wood stocked rifle.

Another point regarding the lightweight barrel on the 7, I don't remember exactly but my 18.5" barrel was around .550", maybe a tad less and that is the same as a Kimber 84 and close to the Remington Mountain Rifle contour, the 7's are several inches shorter and therefore *stiffer*.

I have not heard many recommend a pressure point on the Kimber or Mountain Rifle!

Hellavu an offer by gorskji!