I have always liked the idea of a 7mm magnum, and I have been tempted to taste the 7mm Mashburn Super kool-aid that BobinNH and Dober glorify. However, I don't want to have to make brass.

So, given the constraints of being able to buy brass, what is the "best" 7 magnum?

I have mixed feelings of the 7RM. I know its gets squirrely at high pressures. The one I have now shoots best at 280 Rem velocities, which doesn't take advantage of the extra case capacity.

Tanners 7rem shoots good and so does the one my neighbor has. We loaded somethin like 65.0gr of 7828 under a 162sst blem. Sucker flat out shooots.

I have 4 7mm remmags..they all shoot & kill very well. I use 160 gr Sierra/Speer 160gr bullets and either a max load of RL22 or an over book load of IMR4831 @ 3,000fps. The next step up 7STW is a known barrel burner. I have zero experience with the 7 mm Rem ultra but know it kicks more than I want to endure.

My 3 280's get about 2,700 fps with a 160 gr bullet but will hit 2,950 fps with a 140 gr pro hunter bullet.

herschel what rifle are you running and what velocities are you getting from it?

I find when a rifle for any cartridge goes to hell at its' normal velocities (top end loads), it is generally the rifle itself having issues and not the fault of the cartridge itself.

No reason to go Mashurn or any wildcat as that is a "want", not a "need".

Bob: There you go being all sensible/reasonable again.

-Jonathan

Shooting Times West

Bob,

I am shooting a Rem 700 Custom KS that I picked up used. It shoots nice groups 160 gr Sierra BTSP with 59 gr of RE22 at around 2800 GPS but opens up with higher loads.

I also recall hearing the 7RM has more pressure swings than other cartridges. Just wondering if something like a 7 weatherby magnum would be a little better.

I feel like if you know what you're doing at the reloading bench, pay attention to your brass and chronograph, and use appropriately burning powders, it'd be silly to say that the 7 Rem has any pressure issues not found in every other cartridge. (Given that your chamber, barrel, and components are properly arranged.)

After shooting a 280 for a good amount of time, and then moving up to a 7 Rem Mag, I can only imagine that picking up more velocity by moving to a round such as the Mashburn is only going to add a whole bunch more kick ass to the equation. I've shot this one piece of steel I've got set up at 500 yards probably 300 times with various cartridges, and have yet to see one dent it, UNTIL I shot it with a 162 A-Max leaving the spout at 3050ish fps. Add another 100fps on to that.... and things only get nastier. That sounds like a job for the Mashburn to me.

In addition, the Mashburn is going to fit incredibly well in a LA 700 magazine, while the STW and RUM are going to be smooshed in there if you're using a standard issue box. Something to be said for being able to seat out those long, heavy, needle shaped bastard bullets and get them out of the powder column and close to the lands.

So.... I guess I'm advocating for the 7mm Mashburn not by experience (as I've yet to light the torch on one, even), but by logic. Take a case that'll better the already BA performance of a 7 Rem by at least 100fps, make it fit in a 3.6" box, and you've got a damn winner.

I sold all my 7mm magnums & got a 300 WSM.

Likewise with Tanner, my 1" thick AR400 didn't get dented much until 162 Amaxs starting hitting it.

I have 7stw,7rum and 7mm rem mag the plain rem mag is the best.

7 STW

Well, at least we've gone from "I KNOW the 7RM is squirrely...." to I've HEARD there are pressure problems.........
My experiences with the7RM is two over a period of around 40 years. I've never had any problems like what the self-styled eggspurts allude to but can give no concrete information about.

Well, at least we've gone from "I KNOW the 7RM is squirrely...." to I've HEARD there are pressure problems.........
My experiences with the7RM is two over a period of around 40 years. I've never had any problems like what the self-styled eggspurts allude to but can give no concrete information about.

I don't have one, but the 7WSM has always been interesting to me. Performance similar to the 7RM, but in a lighter, handier package. I do love my 7RM, but I can see myself trying the WSM someday.

herschel first please forgive the horrible grammar and stuff...the upper case shift on my laptop decided it doesnt wanna work...

OK you have a good rifle.i worked with a pals 300rum that behaved like that and it was just sloppy assembly...once the action was properly squared up,lugs lapped it, etc it behaved fine.But before you have it checked out i would try some rl 25 with 150s and 160's....also h4831 and 150 gr and dont be afraid to run it hard and see what she does.this won't take long and will tell you if responds to a change in loads and slower powder, etc.

but most load chasing is really like a dog chasing its tale....if the rifle is not well assembled no load adjustments will make it shoot better.and no rechambering will help a sloppily assembled rifle shoot well either.

in addition I would completely ignore a lot of the internet wisdom about squirrely pressures,and whacky behaviour regarding the 7 RM mag....with the exception of lab ballisticians and maybe 1 mile shooters looking for the lowest velocity spreads and tiniest verticals,most 7 RM users wont see these problems if they bit them in the ass.

That said I would I would try a couple of different powders and give the rifle a chance with these...try somthin quicker burning, too like 4350....maybe the rifle is not in sync with r22 at top end but something else may work.

if the rifle does not respond to load juggling I would then send it to a good rem700 accuracy smith for proper floating, bedding and have the rifle gone over to find the problem.the rem 700 KS MR is a great rifle and the cartridge is for sure NOT THE PROBLEM....ITS JUST MECHANICS. get it fixed.

of course if you just want a different cartridge that's something else....Me, I would have punched it to mashburn by now, like my pal recently did with a rifle just like yours....but not because the 7 RM is no good and is the cause of the problem.

Yo Jonathan how is your rifle. Did you have a good deer season.

Can't finds a reason not to like the 7 Remmie. 162s at 3k easily.... brass is everywhere... bullets are cheap and plentiful... recoil is very manageable.... everybody chambers it in pert'near every rifle format.... and they're typically throated/twisted/mag boxed appropriately from the factory.

I've seen pards trip two .308s and a .300 Winny in the last couple of weeks... because they watched the 7s eat wind and bang steel while they were sucking gas....

dogshooter you have a way with words....

Now that I'm running one, I see what I've been missing out on.

Would it be wrong of me to turn my .308 into a heavy 7 SAUM?

7mm SAUM is da chit.

RL, you running an extended box in yours?

In my house we already have a 7-08 and 7WSM. I can't think of another 7mm that I'd need.

Now, if we are going to talk about wants, I wants a 99 Savage in .284. That would be swell.

I can't think of a thing I wouldn't hunt in North America with a 7 Rem Mag...

Tanner since you have the heavier 7 RM, I would look to make the 7 SAUM a lighter rig...sure as I am sitting here the day will come when you will be glad you have something a skosh lighter and shorter for certain conditions.

Bob, that's what the 25/06 is for

I'm thinking about having the 7 Rem lightened up a little (bolt fluting, that sort of thing) but the weight right now is excellent for my needs.

The 7SAUM would be a belly rig (as Dober calls them) and used for steel shooting out to and past 1k and matches.

Shoot, light or heavy, I'm sure it'd be a fun one.

Hands down, the great 7mm Rem Mag

If you feel the need for speed, 120s at 3400+ will get the job done nicely. Need something with a little more pop? 160s at 3100 aint no slouch. Or, if you just like a happy medium, 140s or 150s from 3100-3300 seem do get the job done quite well.

I have 3 7RMs in the safe right now and despite dabbling in many different cartridges over the years, those 7RMs are still near and dear. I'll probably never be without one. Just a good do all cart for the NA hunter.

Nope! I run 150 BT's a mile from the lands with great results.

BTW, Scenar has turned me on to the AICS drop mags, with a max COAL of 2.950"..

Looks like my 6.5 SAUM is going to be finally put together.

Pat and Sendero are running 6.5 SAUMS now right?

A 2.95" SAUM box would be great!

6.5 SAUM would be a good way to go with the .308 too.... or 6.5/284... .260.... etc.

Oh...got it.

Thought the 25/06 was your sisters.....LOL Tanner I cannot keep up with you..... Laffin

Sure would... guess I better start eating up that stack of 1,000 178s on my bench. damnit...

Bob, sharing is caring I'm sure sis won't mind letting me borrow her 25/06.

7mm saum

+1

hershel34------here's how I look at it.

best short action =7WSM

best factory round= 7 Wby

best "cat"= 7 Mashburn Super

Dober

7mm Rem Mag is what I'd do if I was going to get a 7mm, plenty of case to crank up the velocity, and everybody chambers rifles for it so ammo is usually easy to find in a pinch...but what do I know, I shoot a .270 most of the time...

No one mentioned the 7mm Rogue.......

Pretty skookum Mark, I'm kinda liking the fact you pointed out the 7 Roy as possibly the best 7 mag factory round.
Seems to me there are a lot of 7mm mags out there trying to be what a 7mm Roy always has been.

YMMV

BD

Sure are... if you mean being shot at 65k and pumping 160s at 3100....

It doesn't really matter which one you pick... there's about a half dozen 7s that will run the above numbers with 60-70 grains of go fast. I reckon the best one is the one I've been shooting all summer... when a 28" muley walks out at 5 bills come October.... or a coyote anytime of the year.

I've had two 7mm rem mags but after I got a 300wsm I sent the last one down the road. I just never really got that great of performance out of them both in fps and accuracy. (I had a pf model 70 and a tikka hunter). That sadi I probably would like to play with a 7 WSM if I found the right one.

I probably should add that I never found the 7mm rem mag laking on any of the game I shot. So really I probably sent them down the road out of boredom.

My 7 weatherby never fails to impress..Lots of guys go outta their way to match what it does.

Dogshooter-

What's wrong with 65k pressure in a MODERN rifle?

We get good case life (with quality brass), no sticky bolt lift, tight primer pockets and 7 Mag vel? Never made sense to me to be happy w/280 vel.
Might as well get a 280!

What's to run from ??

I only own one 7mm mag and I waited along time before deciding to buy one. When I finally found the one that "talked to me" . . . turns out it was a SAKO AIII Finnbear Deluxe.

I have a 7 WSM shooting 160gr factory Winchester Accubonds as well as 140gr loaded Barnes T-TSX. The have been great from an accuracy, trajectory, killing performance, etc. standpoint. I am probably just biased. It has done well from whitetail to elk for me.

No personal experience with it, but I sure like the looks of the 7 Dakota.

With brass at $2 a pop, I'll probably never buy one, but I REALLY do want one.

Anybody running one?

My thoughts as well. If we were starting at square one and no rounds existed I think the Dakota line-up would be the end all.

It's a great cartridge,and from a standpoint of capacity and actual velocity delivered,it "performs".From that standpoint I consider it one of the two "best". I spent a lot of money to build one and find out how good it was.

But eventually the luster wore off.The brass is nice, but I got intermitent but repeated longitudinal cracks at the shoulder/neck junction on the second firing,despite using good dies and watching headspace...at $2 a pop, that shouldn't happen.Never seen that with WW brass of any sort.

Because of the head size, you can't form it from any other brass. Don Allen designed it that way,without a rebated rim, to avoid function problems in the CRF Dakota 76.And the same head size problem precludes rebarreling the rifle to anything else if you change your mind down the road.Plus, the cartridge holds no advantage over a wildcat from the standpoint of available factory ammo....lose your ammo in Canada or Alaska and you are just as screwed as you would be with a wildcat......Scratch the Dakota from my list.

Personally I could never wrap my head around how the 7 Weatherby gets its velocity....just hold it side by side with a 7 Rem mag and its apparent it is no larger,and holds no more powder, yet loads are faster and it takes larger powder charges.Building several long throated 7 rem mags had me nudging 7mm Weatherby data and velocities from 24" barrels.I could only conclude the cartridge gets its velocity from a combination of high pressures,26" barrels,and the Weatherby free bore.A custom barrel might or might not show those big velocity gains,as Bob Hagel proved working with the 7mm Weatherby.

To me a 7mm magnum is about 160 gr bullets at 3150-3200 fps,and a 175 gr bullet at over 3000 to 3100 fps from a 24" barrel.Once you get those velocities, lighter bullets are a moot point(yes I know they work).I don't want to lean as hard as possible to get those velocities,and I sure don't want a factory cartridge loaded to 65,000 psi to get it...you are operating on the ragged edge for reliable function IMO and I have seen the bolts of factory 7mm WSM's frozen from factory ammo that is too hot,give sticky extraction.Its' a good cartridge just not my cup of tea.I'm not into seeing how much velocity I can squeeze from small cases.

The only cartridges I'd trust to deliver those velocities, repeatedly and reliably, are the STW, the Dakota, and the Mashburn.The 7 Rem Mag will not do it,but is off by only 100-150 or so fps...brass is easily available and good factory ammo is everywhere, maybe not loaded to the same velocities, but this alone will save a hunt if you lose your ammo.


Over all the best 7mm magnums? Out of those I've worked with personally,the 7mm Mashburn Super followed very closely by the 7mm Rem Mag.

Bob HAGEL -- is my HERO

Honestly I've never had any problem using his procedures of load development.

I have seen L-L variation BUMP pressures to 2 blown primers (H450) & slight bolt stick.

That tells me I WAS at the limit for those powders & I BACKED down.

The Rem 7 Mags are the only 7s I've worked with & I feel it ( Rem 7) performs plenty GOOD NUFF for me. If I want more PUNCH I have an 8 Rem Mag.

1. 7mm Weatherby
2. 7mm Mashburn
3. 7x61 S7H
4. 7mm Rem Mag.
This in no way indicates which cartridge is really the "best". It's just a list of my own preferences. I rate the Remington at the bottom mostly because of the short neck compared to the others. The 7x61 won't perform with the others but it's just a nice cartridge which fits standard actions real well. GD

Bob, are you familiar with the Jarrett 284 mag ? If so, what are the differences between that and the Mashburn as it appears to be close to the same. Always thought that the 300 WM case was the perfect candidate to neck down due to it's capacity and length for most long action bolt rifles. Seems like most cases bigger only get small increases in velocity relative to the increased amounts of powder needed.

RD you nailed it on both counts....Never had the Jarrett but it is nothing more than a modern rendition of the Mashburn.Same/same from what I recall looking into the cartridge a year or so ago.And it seems your analysis of the bigger jugged 7's is correct as well...depending how thin we want to slice the pie.

Years back Bob Hagel did an article on work he did with the 7mm/300 Weatherby(really just an STW)and concluded it held an advantage over the 7mm Mashburn only with the 175 gr bullet and even then it was not great.

Also keep in mind that Art Mashburn developed a cartridge similar to the 7STW but the Super was the more "efficient" and the one that we know today.Layne Simpson was by no means the first guy to use a 7mm on the full length H&H case;many preceeded him but he popularized it.

Study some of the Nosler Manual data seems to corroborate what Hagel said....and the thing that becomes apparent is that the STW and the Mashburn are virtually identical with 175 gr bullets if barrellengths are the same...even the powder charges are close.The 7RUM is about 100 fps faster than either with the 175 gr but you have to burn 10-20 gr more powder to get it there...and these numbers are for 26" barels in both the STW and the RUM.

Four Mashburns that I know of(Dobers, mine, my friends,and another fellow from Texas)all do 3040 to 3090 with 24" tubes and 175 gr bullets.

I think in my case,the fact that I load to a 3.5+" OAL,rifle throated for that,brings my useable capacity up to about the same as an STW with its' longer case, but deeper bullet seating.I don't know whether this makes it more efficient than the bigger case or not,but it works and my powder charges are in the 73-74 gr range for those velocities.

I'll take the lesser velocity from the Mashburn,and the 24" barrel, instead of 26" and the extra 10-20 gr of powder for the RUM any day. Somethng along he lines of the 300Win Mag case may indeed hit the real sweet spot for a 7mm magnum with heavy bullets.Far as I know,the Mashburn and the 300 Win mag are the only two cartridges to have that case length.

The best one is the one is one I just had built. M-70 classic action- blueprinted with a Hart 1-9 lightweight barrel bedded in a McMillan edge stock. Haven't shot it yet, but its at home waiting for me.
Haven't figured out the scope for it yet though.

rgr: That sounds nice!

Used a 7 Rem Mag for years. Shot a truck load of game with it up to and including elk. Been playing with a couple 7 STWs over the last few years and have been much impressed in not only accuracy but performance on game. It really shines with the 160s. It is now my go to long range deer rifle. 163bc

The one for which ammunition is available almost anywhere...presuming of course we're talking about real hunting rifles, ones that go on hunting trips.

I like the shape of the 7mm Wby Magnum better, the Mashburn the same, but the 7mm Rem Magnum wins for me.

Bob.... I'm not sure about the actual Mash. Sup. case.... but the STW is larger in case capacity than the .300Win (6.03cc vs. 5.62cc). In fact, the STW is .4cc larger than the .300 win..... the .300 Win is .35cc larger than a 7 Remmie case.....

That would lead one to believe that the STW should be equally better to the Mash.... than the Mash is to the 7RM. Now, we all know it don't work out that way in the real world.... but I'm wondering why the jump from 5.3cc capacity to 5.6cc provides a 100-200 fps jump..... but going from 5.6cc to 6cc.... doesn't get you anything?

The above line of reasoning is getting a little .280AI here..... and that ain't a good thing. I know.... this is actual data.... and it's hard to argue. But to be frank, Bob, you've called out quite a few guys on their Ackleys and loads lately..... stating, and I quote: "there is no case design, only capacity and pressure"..... how is that working out with the STW/Mash?

I am just wondering here Bob.... that's all.....

7mm WSM

Forgot to mention it's a 7mm Rem mag with a 24" barrel. I plan on NECG sights to finish it off.

dogshooter, talk about rifles and cartridges long enough and eventually you bump into yourself....especially when things get closely matched.

But I'm not talking about the difference of 150-200 fps in this instance....I'm talking about two cartridges being very closely matched,and a manual showing very little difference with 175 gr bullets in the STW vs a lot of istoric data from the past,and what a few of us today are experiencing.....And I am not prepared to tell anyone what pressures are being run in either case.

I am only reporting what the manuals are showing,what others have done and reported (Hagel with the 7mm/300 Weatherby. That article is back there somewhere in Rifle or Handloader and I am working from memory), and we can see for ouselves what happens.I really an't say why Hagel found what he did back then, but my memory on it is pretty clear.

In pure terms the STW should be faster because it holds more powder,and maybe it is in longer barrels....why it does what it does I have no idea.Maybe the fact that the STW is a bigger case but you have to seat bullets deeper due to magazine constraints, has something to do with it? I don't know.....

And of course we really don't know what pressures are actually being run when we see these results.

Here's an example....back in the 80's I had a 300 Weatherby and a 300 Win Mag throated "long". Both had 24" barrels,and both built on M70 H&H length actions.What I found was that the 300WM was so close to the Weatherby with 180's that there really was no difference.The Weatherby did around 3150 with a 180 gr bullet,and the 300 WM did about 3125...they were seperated by about 30-40 fps or so....BUT,later work with other 300 Weatherby's with 26" barrels showed the cartridge to have a significant edge and it was not unusual to see the 300 Weatherby kick up its heels and leave the 300 Win Mag in the dust with a 26" barrel.

Since I have not done as much work with the STW,I really can't say.Might be worth reading back on what Hagel had to say about it;what Art Mashburn discovered himself with the full length cartridge,, and what the Nosler manual shows us with the 7mm Weatherby, the STW,and the 7mmRUM...I think we know enough about the Mashburn at this point to know it is capable of getting over 3000 fps with a 175,and being right in the middle of that group somewhere....same with the STW.

Also remember that Art Mashburn felt the middle cartridge(Super) struck the best "balance"...maybe he got more velocity from the longer case, but felt the two were so close that the extra powder in the full length case was not worth the trouble.

How much more is the STW capable of in absolute terms over the intermediate length Super??

I don't know.

Hell man.... I don't know either. I suppose with any bore size there truly is a correct maximum relationship betwixt bore and case.... once you get past there.... it takes a lot of boom to make things move a little quicker. IME, once you get past RM/Roy capacity (as they are equal).... the noise and recoil seem to go up disproportionately to the increased performance. I know I notice it even when leaning on heavy pills in the 7RM. Everyone is willing to tolerate different levels of recoil/report/efficiency.... I recon that's why we have a veritable cornucopia of 7mm 'magnums'....

I do see the Mash as a great platform for 180 Bergers at 3100ish... quality .300 Winny brass is plentiful and the extra boom-room would come in handy trying to launch those t-posts over 3k. I have a Sendero Special (remember those?) in 7mm Rem Mag en-route.... thinking a Mash punch would give it a little more attitude... and the extra 2lbs would absorb the additional punishment..... hmmmmm....

I think it will work great in a Sendero!

1. 7x57 my pet caliber, very well balanced, classic caliber
2. 7x61 S&H (my synthetic stocked rifle - a traveler)
3. 7x64 (universal)
4. 7X75RS von Hofe (for a light single shot rifle, perfect for mountain hunt)
5. 275 H&H for the connoisseur

CZ

Well these days I shoot a 7mm RM I have shot a 7mm Weatherby for a few years, and my second rifle that I bought with my own money back in 68 was a 7mm RM. Loaded old 4831 in it. Killed every thing I ever shot with it. The 7mm Dakota has a lot going for it, if case life is anything like the 330 Dakota I had. Brass was still going strong with 15 shots so that one might be worth looking at. But for a traveling hunter, who is more interested in putting game on the ground and meat in the freezer, a 7mm RM would be the one with the 7mm Roy being a close second for me. I had a Japanese Fibermark that would shoot one inch or better at 200 yards. Heavy gun thou.

The 'best' 7mm Mag is the Ruger M77 RM on the left. It's been a faithful companion sine 1982. Factory brass is relatively inexpensive compared to some others, load data is plentiful and no case forming needed.

The 26" #1 on the right, in .280 Rem, which I acquired used in March of 2011, isn't a mag at all but again factory brass is inexpensive, load data is plentiful and with the longer barrel it is close enough to the 7mm RM I couldn't choose one over the other on the basis of ballistics except in the most extreme cases.

To me, it's the 7 WSM, wrapped in the Kimber Montana platform. I don't see how it can be improved upon in any way. Lightweight hammer.

I am personally a fan of both the 7mm Rem Mag and 7mm WSM.

My first centerfire rifle purchase when I was a poor college student was a Savage 100 pkg rifle in 7mm Rem Mag. Killed a very respectable buck with it at 200+yds a couple of months later. It was a very accurate rifle, but was just a plain ol' Savage so down the road it went once I picked up a Ruger M77 in 7mm Rem Mag. I kept the Ruger 'til I picked up a Win M70 SS Classic in 7mm Rem Mag, which I still have mounted in a McM Supergrade Edge.

I slowly came around to the 7mm WSM. I tried the 270 and 300 versions first, mostly 'cause they were more common. But my love of the .284's eventually led me to picking up a M70 SS Classic in 7mm WSM (in a McM Supergrade Edge), followed by a Win M70 Coyote in 7mm WSM and now have a Win M70 CRPF (McM A5, Broughton bbl, Badger bradke, ...) in 7mm WSM coming back from Redneck very shortly!

just grab the tried and true 7mm rem mag. after all, it's one of the "3 kings" (270 win, 30-06, and 7mm rem mag). the 7mm rem mag has been getting it done for many years, and all indications are it will continue.

A few years ago I would have said the STW was the best 7 around, without a doubt. It gives a meaningful performance boost over the 7Rem and 7Wea without too awful much more powder or BOOM.

But that was before components dried up.

I still have a 100 virgin W-W cases in the cupboard besides the 150 I have been working with for the last several years. And someday Midway will list STW brass again, so I am not worried about my needs. But I would have a hard time recommending the STW to anyone else today.

I have never worked with the Mashburn, but have followed Dober's and Bob's comments on it. It does not sound too hard to build the cases, and there will always be 300 Win brass available. Well, if any brass is available at all.

Need a load for wife's custom Weatherby 7mm mag. Has been shooting nosler part. 140s with imr 4350 64gr @3180. Shots less than 1 MOA.
Want to try Barnes LRX 145.
Bought rifle from friend who had it made for wife after she passed away, sodo not know twist rate.
Since Barnes has not bothered to publish load data for the LRX yet, ineed some info.
Thanks. Marley

Idaho, brass for the STW is one reason I have not followed through with the cartridge.It isn't exactly common.

For that matter nothing much is these days... I have had to scrounge lately even for WW 300 Win Mag but managed to locate some recently.

What's the "best" 7 mag? I figure if it gives over 3000 fps with a 160 gr bullet without stomping on it,they are all "good".From there it's just a matter of choosing the platform you like.They all do basically the same things...like comparing various 300 magnums.

No doubt though,the Remington is the most convenient of the bunch.

This thread defines Rifle Loony-ism. Just wow...

Pretty much the bottom line truth on this. Back in the late 70's early 80's? Bob Hagel wrote an article for Handloader Magazine detailing his experiments with long throating a M700 Rem in 7mm Rem Mag. Hagel understood the 150 & 175 gr 2 dia Remington Corelokts used in Remington factory ammo with std Remington throating. He also understood exactly why his loads with the 160 & 175 gr Nosler Partitions couldn't be loaded to the same levels of velocity because of having to short seat them with then resulting decreased powder capacity. The 700 had a 3.6" mag box whereas a lot of other rifles chambered for short mags have only a 3.4" box. Hagel reasoned that running the throat out to let one seat a 175 NPT with the base even with the neck/shoulder junction would give him the powder capacity to run 175 NPT's at an honest 3000+ fps with the slow burning powders they had back then. He also realized that the lighter weight bullets more often used for deer and antelope would be handicapped by a longer bullet jump accuracy wise. It was an experiment, he wanted to know if he could game the one dia component bullets to the same factory velocity levels by seating them out via long throating. I believe he felt the 7 mm Rem Mag would be at it's best long throated for heavy high bc bullets with the NPT's performance level on heavier game in the longer range environs of the mountains. Like more than a few guys here he was building a special tool for his use. Hagel wasn't a big guy, but in his time he was a giant in his understanding on how to get things done and achieve what he wanted. Needless to say he didn't saw off his magnum barrels to make "them handle better" either. Magnum Man

While I only have a 7mm RM, I agree the plain 7mm RM is "best" for most people. Availability of brass for handloaders and factory ammo for the others coupled with the ability to provide more than is needed in the vast majority of situations makes it a winner in my book.

As Bob said, everything else is more a want than a need.

Oh, so very NICE!!!!!!!!!

Assuming a fast enough rifleing twist, and a barrel long enough to use the powder being burned with some semblence of efficiency, then the best one is the one which holds the most gunpowder and can fit into your action. To me, this make the 7mm Mashburn Super or 7mm/300WinMAg the "best" for 2.5 inch length actions and a great, inexpensive upgrade for about any 7mm RemMAg. If your action is a true Magnum length, I would pick a 7STW or 7RUM.

Regarding powder capacity and speed: "If some is good, more is better, and too much is just right!"

I LUV me some speed, for various reasons. Highest possible impact velocity, other things like bullet weight and BC being the same, is increasing the odds of hydraulic overload in soft tissues far from the bullet strike zone and thusly more liklihood of DRT kills. Less suffering for the animal is not only good sportsmanship (although any of us can make mistakes and hit a little off at times) but also renders better tasting meat with an animal's Adrenal System not having any time to kick in and pump all of the "Flight or Fight" Chemcals like Cortisol, Adrenaline, etc into the bloodstream and thusly the meat. That is my experience anyway. While the SLIGHTLY flatter trajectories is a good thing, that is not as big an issue with todays modern optics, rangefinders, turrets, mil dot scopes etc. But the OTHER two benefits remain, IMO.

Plus, fast is just plain FUN!

Ed: I know

Only the 6.5mm boys can top it.

+1 for STW

7RM is next on my list. 162's at 3,000 FPS, I'm done. Larry P says 162's will be available in May, plenty of brass in stock (at least there was on Saturday). Just gotta find 250's and R-22....

I thought it was the 280 rem that was his sisters?? Back to the thread: I'm happy enough with my 7mm Rem. It loves the 162's (A-max and btsp interlocks) too. 3,050 fps is about right in my rifle, stoked with RL25..

I realize this thread is nigh on two years' old.

The 7MM Rem Mag might just be the single best big game cartridge of all North American big game. In a good-quality rifle, a hand loader ought to get 3100 FPS with 160 grain bullets and 3200 FPS with 150 grain bullets.

While I've not yet hand loaded 175 grain bullets, I'd anticipate achieving 3000 FPS with them.

The two most accurate rifles I've fired were both 7MM Rem Mags.

The reality is the 7MM Rem Mag ain't a whole lot better than the .280 Rem. Were I accorded a do-over, I'd go with a .280 Rem with a 22" barrel & never look back. I don't think that it'd be all that difficult to get 2900 FPS with 160 grain bullets out of a .280 Rem.

Since I have two 7mm Rem.Mag. rifles, that is my 'best' choice.
1989 700-AS I bought new in 1995...
Not sure of the production date for my Browning BAR MkII Safari w/B.O.S.S.

I kind of lucked into the Remington at a BIG 5 store and smile every time I pull the trigger on that one!
The BAR gives me a different kind of smile...softer and more confident with the adjustable accuracy for any load and the instant reloading of another cartridge to make me smile again.

The 7mm Rem.Mag. is sufficient for power, distance, and most any game in North America.
I don't know which one it ISN'T sufficient for...

Then there's the components for reloading.
I also lucked into buying some BARNES 195-gr. Original bullets for the 7mm. A few hundred! Still have most of 'em!
That's a nice, long, heavy bullet for caliber and I don't know where you'd find 'em today.
I also bought some SPEER TNT 110-gr. with the specific idea of loading them into Remington nickel-plated brass for the BAR.
All those little components, just waiting to be loaded!

I did have 20 of the 195's loaded into once-fired brass from the 700, and they were accurate, with a little extra push from the weight.

I just think the 7mm Rem.Mag. is a great cartridge overall.
Easy to find most anywhere.
Feels good to shoot.
Effective.

That's my story, and I'm stickin' to it!

I don't believe the rumors on 7 RM I have two and neither have pressure problems. If I wanted something different in 7mm it would either be 7 WSM, or 7 Weatherby or 7/08. I have had a 7 STW and thought the recoil was in the range of a 300 Win mag. and the one I had was only average accuracy.

Been pleased with me 7 LRM. Pretty efficient too... 70-71 grains of powder with the 175 & 180 gr bullets at or above 300 fps. Mine is not a heavy recoiler, and seems like it will be accurate. First group from the gun was .75"

I've only recently heard about the 7 LRM, does it need an action and magazine box longer than standard? What is the OAL of a loaded cartridge?

I've been shooting a 280AI lately and it's working for me, but it is not a 7RM. I have said and written that the 7RM is absolutely perfect for western hunting of elk and mule deer and such. It's recoil is manageable, it more than enough power for the biggest bull elk that ever walked at any reasonable range and angle. Moreover, the 160gr Nosler Partition is one great bullet. It's only shortcoming is most factory ammo sucks. For top performance it must be reloaded. I set my 7RM up with a long throat and a 26" 9 twist Hart barrel so I get some impressive velocities with 160gr bullets. About the only thing the big 7's give up to the big 30's is recoil.

I like 'em....got two here.

And don't you dare move the newest one without calling me.

Years ago, Speer's Nitrex line offered a 160 grain bullet clocking 2890 fps at the muzzle for the 280 Remington. I am pretty sure I am guoting those figures correctly, because I figured with that kind of power the 280 is all I would ever need... and I bought a M700 CDL in 280 and never looked back (more than a thousand times, usually when I run into threads like this one)... Of course, the Nitrex line was discontinued before I ever bought any of that ammo. Reload data for the 280 is the pits... always running below the potential of the cartridge. Hodgdon's website shows a max V of 2718 for the 280 with a 160, and 2833 fps for the 270! Laffin. What a 270 can do, a 280 can do... when my "hunt out west" ship comes in I will look for a good 7RM!!

Laffin! You mean that old thing?

Works on a standard lr (I believe magnum action).

Iirc, my 175 lrab load is at 3.335"

Thanks, that's good to know, I think it would work in my stainless M700 Rem mag action. Interesting.

Another vote for the 7 Roy!

I've hit 2 different gunshows since I last posted on this thread been looking for early to mid 60's Remington factory 7mm Rem Mag ammo. Really wanted some 175 gr Ptd Corelokts ,haven't found any yet but did score an almost full box of 64-65 vintage 150 gr Corelokts yesterday. These were advertised as having the factory velocity of 3260 fps at the muzzle in my 1963 Rem catalog. Now days the same load is 3110 fps. Now these shells are 48-49 years old but appear to have been stored correctly, no corrosion visible at all and the box is 95% condition. of course they are loaded with Rem 2 diameter bullets. Think I'll pull one check the powder weight and use the bullet to check the throats on my 700 ADL and Mark X Whitworth to see if they are throated the same, I doubt it but curiosity says too. Then some chrono graphing. Magnum Man

Were I to look for a 7Mag again it'd be a Belgium Medallion Browning with no sights, beautiful rifles and they shoot well too, the heavier barrels on these particuler rifles help to balance out the slightly clubby stocks.

Pre-Salt of course.

Gunner

I have a .280 AI and a 7mm rem, I won't try to say one is better than the other at the moment as I'm only just learning the 7mm rem.

The 7mm cartridge that I really like and pour research hours into is the 7mm Dakota, the velocities are a good step up over the 7mm rem and not far behind the 7mm ultra mag but for a heap less powder, the only thing stopping me getting one is there is no brass in Australia, midway will import some but it's dear as poison, and to buy all the forming dies to make my own is more trouble than I want. But for you blokes in the US with components available that's what I would go for.

If you want a barrel burning screamer look at the Lazaroni line of cartridges, a while back I did ask my gun smith to enquire about a reamer and the response was " NOT AVAILABLE " you have to buy our rifle.