I bought this rifle off the fire a little over a year ago. It is destined to be my daughters deer rifle. I have played with several different loads and at best it is a 2 moa rifle and most of the time worse.

I bedded it, free floated it, added back a pressure point, changed scopes, remounted the bases, sanded down the mag box, tried 85 grain bullets, 95 grain, 100 grain, hand loads, factory it doesn't seem to mater. Bottom line it still sucks.

I'm trying to decide if I should cut my losses and send it down the road and buy something else or send it in for a surgical procedure? For the price of a new barrel I am sure I could get another rifle. I don't need it to shoot 1/2 inch groups but a consistent 1 MOA seems reasonable.

Keep in mind that whatever I do I will need to figure out a shorter stock for the little one. I am thinking about the Vanguard/Howa compact in 243 or possibly the Ruger compact.

Thoughts / opinions?

Thanks,
Andy

Will 2MOA really lose deer where 1MOA won't?

Realistically a 2MOA hunting rifle is sufficient, although if any worse i wouldn't use it. But i totally understand wanting a better shooter, believe me. Judt out of curiosity, did the seller claim it was a good shooter? If its a rifle for your daughter id look into the new Ruger American. My little brother is 20 and wants to get into rifle shooting and deer hunting with me (I've been trying to get him to come out for a few years now) and he really liked my Montana's until he found out how much they cost! Anyway, i brought him to cabelas a few weeks ago to check some rifles out and get an idea of what feels good. He really liked the Ruger and everything ive heard about them has been really good, especially for the price. He doesn't have much
money right now as hes paying for half of his school and a car so i gave him an extra Zeiss Conquest 3-9 i had (NIB) and am going to put $150 down on the rifle in 308 and layaway for Christmas without telling him. They're on sale at cabelas for $350 right now too.

Maybe it'd be best to bring your daughter with to feel them herself? If they're too big i know Browning makes the micro a-bolts and Winchester has the FW compact but they are more $. The Browning is kinda cool because if you get the youth version they have a deal that you can buy a full sized stock for the rifle at a discounted price for when the kiddo grows up. Either way id cut my losses, sell the one you have and try a new rifle. It sounds like you've done almost everything to get it to shoot.

Good luck!
Cory

I hate sending turds down the river. I feel that it promotes bad mojo, bad luck, bad karma, whatever the f you wanna call it. I would send it to Hill Country Rifles and have them accurize it. Then its good to go and you won't have to worry about the dark magic of the what goes around comes around rule.

http://www.hillcountryrifles.com/pages/accurizing

I think most of us on here wouldn't be happy with a 2 MOA rifle. Could I kill stuff with it, absolutely. As a gun nut am I happy with that? Absolutely not.

Well, if we're talking rifle loonyism

Do have a concentricity gauge for checking your handloads and factory ammo? Measured the throat of the rifle to ensure that your loads are .020" off the lands or nearer?

If you're at 2MOA and want to get to 1MOA, I'd start with the ammo: matched to the chamber, loaded as straight as possible and sorted for run-out.

I am good on measuring the seating depth and played with that quite a bit. I don't have a concentricity gauge but could use one. I load for quite a few rifles and have never had this issue. But, each one is an individual.

Thanks for the thoughts.

What do the groups look like? Vertical or horizontal stringing, or just plain random? Do the groups start good but open up? Is the rifle predictable for the first, cold bore, shot but then unpredictable for the rest of the string?

How many 2moa rifles you hunting with?

A friend of mine has a 243 feather weight. It sucks just as bad or maybe worse. Real nice gun and he really likes everything about it except how it shoots.....lol.

I understand a "deer rifle" doesn't really have to be a 1/2moa shooter but 2moa plus don't cut it for me.

Yeah, 2MOA sucks. Maybe in a lever gun or something or some other relic, but not in a newer bolt action like Winchester.

Cut your losses and move on.

How well did it shoot with Federal Fusion 95 grain factory ammo?

If you haven't tried it, it will tell you what you can get out of a 243?

Where at in Or and how much do you want for the poor shooting bastid....Don't worry about that bad mojo stuff if the price is right....Another thing, don't waste your hard earned money on Hill country, especially if you live close enough to me

Yeah, he should send it your way. You seem to have the knack for getting them to shoot.

I really need to be working with my new to me pre 64 375 H&H though......

You don't have it ready for hunting next year yet?! I expect a pic next spring with it resting on a dead bear...

Ha ha......We'll see .. The dink black bear around here are not really worthy. Now if I lived in your neck of the woods though.......

First id run a bore scope down it. If the bore checks out I'd touch up the crown and see what happens. I would want a sub MOA rifle as well since it is doubtful your daughter will be able to shoot it as well as you can. Give her every advantage possible to make sure her hunt is a success. I sure wouldn't hesitate to rebarrel either.

This is what I bought my son:

http://www.hyattgunstore.com/remington-700-sps-compact-rifle-in-243-winchester.html

He loves the shorter length of pull, feels like he can really get in a good position with the rifle. Length of pull can be extended as he grows.

He got a nice 200lb hog last weekend, grinning from ear to ear. Used the federal premium with 85g TSX.

I know a guy who had the same rifle/chambering and had the same accuracy issues. He tried everything he could think of-bedding, scopes, mounts, a large variety of bullet/powder combos. IIRC, the only bullet he could get to show any promise was Hornady's 100gr. roundnose.

Were it mine and I had my heart set on keeping it, I'd send it to E. R. Shaw for a new stainless barrel ($240+ $115 for installation).

Pretty Random. Might get a couple close then the third is inch high inch to the right. Fourth might be inch low inch to the left. I think the ones that do start to look like a group are simply part of the randomness. Usually it is not the first two that group. Might be the 2nd and 5th. I let the barrel cool between shots.

Haven't tried the fusions. Shot Remington 100 and Federal blue box 100. Also tried Sierra 85s, Hornady 100s, Nosler 95 BT.

Might try the fusions just for fun.

[/quote]Where at in Or and how much do you want for the poor shooting bastid....Don't worry about that bad mojo stuff if the price is right....Another thing, don't waste your hard earned money on Hill country, especially if you live close enough to me [/quote]

I am close to Albany. I can't see myself using Hill Country although I am sure they do quality work. I would hate to perpetuate the bad mojo and burden you with my problem at any price

I have been contemplating this option. Seems like a fair price and I know some of the members speak favorably of ER Shaw to include Mule Deer. I wish I had a bore scope to give the throat a good look. Either way what I have going isn't working.

Ouch, lets not get hasty.... ...OP, can you show some pics of the rifle, groups. What scope and mount set-up are you running right now? Is it a pushfeed or a classic CRF?

Have you checked the scope for Parallax?

You mentioned the caliber, but never said what model of rifle we are discussing.

If handloading for this, I'd try 95gr Nosler BT and H4831, IMR7828 (cci 200's) , and W760 (mag primer with the ball powder).

If it still didn't shoot, well, it might just be a bad barrel, and could be time to move on.

I've got the same rifle also chambered in .243win. It too is finicky about shooting tight groups. I've had it bedded and free floated but that didn't make much difference.

What I have found is it has a certain way it likes to be held wile shooting off the bench. If you just lay it across sandbags or put it in a vise and shoot it, the bullets are going to be all over the paper.
You have to take a firm grip on the fore end with your left hand underneath and not let it touch the actual rest itself. It has fired sub moa groups before using this method, shooting Winchester 100gr. Power Points.

Also, no matter what I've tried it refuses to shoot Winchester 95gr. BSTs into anything resembling a group.

CRF model 70 featherweight blued in a wood stock. It's a New Haven gun. Scope bases and rings are Leupold dual dove tail. First scope I had on there was a Vari X III 2.5-8x36. The scope that is on there right now is a Vortex Viper 3-9x40. I do have a past Target that I will post when I get home.

This is the best I have been able to do. I added back a pressure point near the end of the stock and the results were much worse. The 100 grain Hornady and 95 BT were loaded with 41 grains of H4350.

All of these were shot from sandbags off a concrete bench at 100 yds.

Good picture. Shows a lot of horizontal stringing. Typically that points to uneven contact at the forend (one side or another). Bad bedding, did you bed it yourself and did you also bed the tang area? Where are you positioning the bags?

Two things I can think of are, one, how tight is the middle action screw ? It should be only snug, not any tighter than that. Do the front action screw, then the rear and check the middle one.
Second, if you are sure the scopes are good, then I'd look at first the barrel crown, and then the rifle's chamber.
Just for the record, I've hunted throphy deer with ammo that wouldn't shoot better than 2.5 inches with my M70 Fwt., .308. That's because of the bullet I insisted on using. However, it will shoot from .5-.8 for three at 100 yds. with ammo it likes. As rule, an inch or so for three should be quite possible. E

Yep bedded it myself. I am 99% I bedded the tang but I will have to pull it apart to make sure. I usually do. I have a rear "rabbit ear" style leather bag and a couple large bags I use up front. Usually place the front bag about mid way up the forearm behind the sling stud.

What's the condition of the rifle? Do you have any pics of it?

Middle screw is barely snug and the magazine box is not tight.

It is 97% looks great. Hardly any exterior wear at all. I have not idea how many rounds down the pipe before I got it. I can take pictures for you but it likes like a model 70 featherweight in really nice shape. Anything specific you want to see?

Price tag

There is that

150 miles separates....

I am a model 70 guy and usually have really good luck. I am apt to rebarrel and march on before I sell.

Good man, that's what I like to hear. Do you have any pics of your bedding and is it bedded tight? How much compound is under the chamber area?

Have it recrowned.

I had a problem rifle that I just couldn't get any consistency out of, tried everything. When I got to look at the bore with a bore scope I knew what the problem was. Firelapped the barrel and now it is a consistent 0.6" 3-shot with factory ammo.

Firelapping doesn't fix everything, but it will fix a rough bore.

Aaron

The bedding is tight. The crown looks good. I can't see any imperfections although I am looking at it with my naked eye. In the photo the light spots are just that, reflection from the overhead can lights.

Bedding looks good but I'd remove the compound under the chamber. Leave about 1/4" or so under so it looks like this:
(sorry it's a synthetic stock so the representation isn't as good as what it would be for a wood stocked rifle but you get the point)

....... and re free-float it just for chits and giggles. Also make sure you have clearance around the action screws (open up the holes after bedding).....Make sure the action isn't stressed when you tighten up the action screws too. My New Haven 30-06 classic sporter didn't like that much bedding material under the chamber so I did the above and also did the same with my 7mm rem mag (pictured) and they both shoot lights out...

I will give it a try. Thanks.

This is purely anecdotal, but I've had a couple of Featherweights that just would not shoot. They were free-floated, bedded, etc, and like you I tried all of the standard accurizing measures.

Both of these rifles ultimately did start shooting well, however, after I shot the heck out of them and let their barrels get good and HOT, followed by a thorough bore cleaning. I call it a "redneck barrel break-in". If you're going to sell or rebarrel anyway, it might be worth a try.

One suggestion I can pass on when the 'fire was trying to help me diagnose flyers with my re-barreled 70; make sure you have the correct length front scope base screws. If they bottom out on the barrel threads, the front base may be loose.

The other suggestion was to make sure the action screws were not touching the stock.

I, too would get it crowned and float the barrel.

You May well know this but with M70's the stock screws should be ightened roughly as follows;
1. tighten front action screw very tight. Tighten the middle screw until the head just touches and tighen the back screw tight. Makes a big difference in accuracy with mine.