Bought a batch of Nosler 64 gr. Bonded bullets for the CF .22s, worked up a load in the .223AI Shot a deer with it the other day, and while butchering today did a thorough post mortem.
2 shots, first one mid ribs,but it exerted enough pressure to pop the diaphragm and the stomach, leading me to believe shot was too far back. Made a mess inside that we had to rinse out in the creek�2nd shot- buck was thinking briefly about topping out on a hill and going where we didn't want him to go, so it was a high shoulder shot to anchor him. Went through both shoulders, right under the spine, broke the off shoulder and caused massive tissue damage, oddly enough on the entrance side.
Second bullet was recovered under the skin, easy 2X expansion and a retained weight of 60 grains. Excellent. These shots were barely over a hundred yards, with a MV of 3150 fps.
Im impressed.

What does .223AI mean?

Theres a thread around here somewhere about that�


But I'll give you the condensed version�..223 Awesome Ingwe.

;-{>8 ;-{>8 ;-{>8

Help me out here�I failed hieroglyphics�..

how do you like them compared to the 53grain TSX?

I gotta say I like the TSX better when working on the meat, its a whole different and cleaner wound channel characteristic �that would go for all the TSXs�. No difference in how quick it kills. Accuracy is good with both, but one of my .22-250s with a 1 in 14 twist doesn't like the Nosler. My AI is a 1 in 12 and they shoot great out of it.

10-4, I am back at the 62 grain TSX again myself. I like a pass thru and for a shoulder shot the 75 grain Swift failed me.

And I am farting around with some 55 TTSXs and will also try the 62s when I can get some�.mainly cause I like farting around with loads. Lots of them are good, accurate, and effective, but the TSX or TTSX is hard to beat, especially in the little guns�.

Literal translation --- "Bwahahahaha, everyone knows that thread is about derrieres and D-cups".

Oh ye of little faith. I started this with the intent of it being an insightful and informative thread. I can't believe you would think otherwise��..

OMG..here we go again........

I'm still mad at you for shooting that Bighorn. I never got to do that��

OK, I concede, mission accomplished. ;-{>8

There might be some fishing pics mixed up in this thread too�..

Which one of them is the 64 gr. Nosler? Have you been hoarding them?

Nice pink rod. Just sayin.

Trust me, if you've ever seen her cast, she can use whatever rod she wants�.

Did she do an article for Flyfishig magazine? It was about Steelhead in the Pacific Northwest. Cover story too I believe.

Thanks for the report, Ingwe. That 64 sounds promising. I think you'd like the 62 TSX a lot too.

I'm sure she did, its April Vokey and she is as skilled and as experienced as any flyfisher on the planet.
Cool to watch her with a Spey Rod.

Have you clocked the 62 TSXs? Are you getting the speeds you think you should?

We have Bighorns in Montucky, and the only time I ever drew a tag,I got in an accident and blew up my left ankle,spent over a year on crutches. In the ER I was whining big time and they kep asking " Does it hurt??" And I kept replying " NOOOOOOO�I got a sheep tag!"

Yes! That's her. Now I remember her. I couldn't put the name with the face. (Pretty too). I saw a pic of her in that article with about 100 ft of line in transit. I like fishing for Erie tributary steelies. A far cry from the way she does it though.

Not yet, but they've been accurate and knock the snot outta hogs with some impressive penetration.

that's sucks big time..here in Utah you can surrender a tag...30 days prior to hunt

if shidt like that would happen....

Click the link....she is a babe..

https://www.google.com/search?q=apr...amp;ved=0CDQQsAQ&biw=965&bih=442

Given your fine description, I'd say the 53 TSX wins hands down then...

Yep.







But I just gotta mess with new stuff�..

Thanks for the info. Good stuff..

forgive me for the salvage launching mechanism, but this is the result of some testing of the 64 g nosler out of a 223 yesterday:



i was a little surprised at the destruction, the pic, believe it or not, doesnt do justice to the explosiveness of what happened. id be lying if i said that i felt 100% comfortable about using it on deer

It works on deer, but it kinda works like that�...

Where is the recovered bullet pic?

As soon as I remember to bring my camera home from school��.

The Nosler is more destructive than I anticipated. Have not used a .223 for Deer but I have given it some thought and figured the Nosler bonded 64gr. was the ticket. Maybe not.

Tom, your description of the damage to the meat will keep me from ever using those bullets on big game. I just dont want to waste any food over playing with new bullets. Thanks for the heads up on the performance.

I see the bullet performed very well with weight retention and expansion, but it still "grenaded" the insides which is not something i want to deal with. Especially with meat loss.

The bullet retained 60 of 64 grains...hardly "grenaded" in my opinion. One guy, two bullets and one dead deer. I'd not give up so easily.

The first pic is a groundhog killed with the 64 BSB. The second pic is the exit hole. Far from an exploding bullet IMO.





I expect the damage upon entrance was due to frontal diameter. The bullet is fairly blunt.

Here is a pic of the bullet sectioned. I did this as soon as I grabbed some to see what they looked like inside. I doubt they'll blow up easily.

Looks about perfect to me! I'll have to give 'em a go when I get a chance.

I think I'll bust a doe next weekend. I'm curious too.

SAS, that exit hole youre showing is what i was expecting to get. i bet we're shooting at the same velocity too (im using 26 g varget). the rabbit was about 120 yds downrange

SAS: I think your assessment is spot on�Ive only offered a 'sample of one'�Im gonna try a few more myself...

Groundhog was 125ish. 26.2 of Varget. Pretty darn close...

You know cameras are much smaller now,than when you had them in the 1860's.

I wasn't disputing you in any way. I think others misinterpreted you post. I was actually agreeing with you.

I'm gonna shot a deer with the bullet within the next week and see what happens!

Nice. What type of groups you getting with those in your Kimber? A new Kimber Montana 223 is going to be my xmas present to myself.

No worries SAS�..Always figured if you disputed me, it would be loud, and profane. Something like YOU STUPID #@!&*^%$#!!!!!!

Nice. What type of groups you getting with those in your Kimber? A new Kimber Montana 223 is going to be my xmas present to myself. [/quote]

I need one as well (Montana .223)...

First off: GFY


Secondly, just for you guys, I went to my office, picked up my camera, and took this pic of the 64 gr Nosler Bullet in question.

Nothing explosive-looking about that one as far as I can see. Looks like it held together as designed and mushroomed perfectly. Can't wait to try one of them on a doe myself.

Nope, it sure didn't 'grenade'�.but damage was all out of proportion to bullet hole

That said Ive noticed a recurrent phenomenon with TSXs��.Placed precisely through the ribs, well forward of the diaphragm, they pop the diaphragm more often than not, and when I start dressing the animal south to north I see all kinds of blood in the gut cavity and usually say 'WTF?"

My sample of one with this bullet implies something similar�.

Someday when my .22 grows up I hope it can shoot the Nosler 64.

BD, you know�..it will kick a LOT harder than CB caps�..

Got a "GFY" from Ingwe,life is good.

I've popped my share of diaphragms too.....

That looks good!

Don't show us pictures of your mushroom....

Glad to hear its not just me Scott�..never figured the phenomena out,but it damn sure happens frequently, and doesn't affect the meat or the ultimate outcome�just a curiosity �...

Uh-oh�getting old here�I think I just missed a double entendre�...

Yes you did

Schitt I hate getting old�.

THAT MADE MY DAY!!

You'd blush if I did..

I don't shoot CB Caps more than 2-3 times a decade. Does your Awesomeness kick harder than a 7 Mouser? I hope not. I think I can handle it.

CB Shorts........dang it! There's a difference. Not much, but hey...

No, the Mouser REALLY kicks hard!

Again I say��



GFY!

This is what i was referring to. I didnt mean the bullet grenaded, i meant that the damage was similar to that effect.

I dont want a ton of meat damage. I dont want to lose anything if i can avoid it.

In my 6 years of using the TTSX, and TSX out of my 30-06, i have yet to see any meat damage of note, and could nearly eat up to the entry wound and exit wound as well. Most of my shots were in the ribs, and quite frankly, i have never popped a diaphragm in the 9 animals i shot in the last 6 years with those bullets.

Hot diggity dog,a double shot of "GFY" from Ingwe,I'm on cloud 9 for sure!

Marty, sheer speculation here but I think the popping of diaphragms is due to speed more than bullet size�just a wild jazzed guess from here...

Glad I could make you happy!

You're such a good Poobah.

I AM a benevolent SOB��.

I'd agree on the speed, their eyes typically bulged afterwards.

Yeah but one type of diaphragm gets popped by high speed, the other at least prefers to get popped at slow speed�.both make their eyes bulge��


I can no longer detect the double entendre�time to check into the Pablum Palace...

Did you hear any of them say 'Oh God'

Tried my first .224" 75 A-Max this afternoon.

They might do.(grin)

Was he a bit gun barreled down?

Dats a helluva nice buck Stick!

Those 75 Amaxes have become an Urban Myth here in the lower 48�


Don't know when we will see some again�.

No, but I got a doe once that made that growling/purring noise right before her eyes bulged�.

Then you popped her diaphragm.

Thats all supposition on your part�..

Dayum!

I guess I got a pre Dakota Dakota for sale then. Double digit #, ANIB w/ about 300 cases and 1500 bullets for sale. Leupy aim helper.

PM me if you think you can afford it.

Thanks,

Dan

Not only that,but,it's a wild a** guess.

I might could afford it, but I can't take that brutal recoil!


The .223AI is my upper limit now�..

Thanks for the field report, was wondering how they'd pan out on critters. Seems like they do a pretty good job. I'm surprised by the amount of weight retention, seems like a pretty tough bullet.

How do these compare to the 60 grain Partitions?

Did I read correctly that these stabilize bullets in 1:12 barrels? The appear to be short enough to do so in the pics.

Ive shot them in a couple 1 in 12s with no problem� They should retain more weight, and definitely shoot better than the 60 NPT


As witness this 200 yd group�

That shouldn't be too difficult. I've never had any luck getting the 60gr Partition to shoot in any rifle I've ever tried them in, which is several.

Ive posted this before but when the 60 NPTs came out JB had a Juenke Comparator, and he tested a box for concentricity, and sorted them into three piles, good, better, and best. I ran them through my most accurate .223 with a known load and that exactly how they shot. .75 for the best, 1.25 for the 'good'�

Wild guess from a layperson but it might be harder to overcome concentricity issues with two cores...

The Big Rigby, I call it Special...ain't for sale. Phffft-

Classic

let us know how it goes. I'm relatively new to the .223, but the lack of recoil and report make it REALLY easy to do precise work with

That looks perfect. for all i know, the one I shot looked like that. I wasn't expecting to see rabbit parts flying through the air and landing 30 yds away, though

excellent!

That rifle is now the rifle below. It shot 1" or better with the bullet/loads I tried. Stick made more improvements and I think it's more better now. He also opened the action to accept some longer bullets. Pretty neat work actually...



I'd talk to him about what he did and how it does. I'd say he's flung a couple thousand bullets down the tube by now -- probably more.

I saw the very flat front on the expanded Nosler. Put that together with speed and you get what is called the "splat effect" in scientific circles. For those of you in Rio Linda, it's like a belly flop landing.

Trust me, I'm a doctor.

its definitely prettier

That rifle in particular,has sold alotta rifles in particular and that in just these last coupla weeks. Same old adage,in that good stuff sells itself.

Very easy to load the crummy up with assorted platforms in like chambering(s) and let folks shake things out for themselves,in Real World conditions(wind) and to the extent of their desires,as distance goes. Though the 75A-Max is new to me,as is the 223 chambering,F&S reports that boolit/cartridge melding to stay supersonic to 1100yds+ from Milford Level air density/temps,from a modest 22" length SAAMI spout. 1000yds is sub 31MOA from a 225 zero and the recoil though rather sharp,remains manageable.(grin) It defeats the 1:1 Wind Ratio(distance at which 1MPH of wind influences a 1MOA correction) to 1000yds+,so it seems that nice things would be mechanically arranged by inherent default. 2000fps of impact,is arranged to the These things sound plausible to me.(grin) Fairly skookum arrangement,for less than 25grs of powder,per victim.

In fairness however,the 64gr Nosler from a like zero at 3150fps,eats 56.75MOA to the 1000yd line and hits the 1:1 Wind Ratio at the 575yd line. But on the bright side,it dips subsonic inside the 650yd line. All of which is plum [bleep] Sportin'.(grin) The 50gr X has an identical BC and a 14gr velocity headstart,which would seem to grant advantages,from the muzzle onwards.(grin)

So while I'd be the last to rain on a Turd Polisher's Ping Pong Ball BC Party,it do seem that boolits matter farrrrrr more than headstamps. Fact is...when talking Twist Chow,that adding weight is purposely pissing up ropes. That due the fact,that Chowtitude is a function of boolit length,not weight and when approaching max length quotients for a given twist rate,I'm ALWAYS gonna drop weight(to bank the velocity increase) and get my length(BC),via vastly superior projectile design...regarding both form and function. It's called "having your cake and eating it too" (F&S Sept. '91).

Plagiarized pic,from F&S and this morning's issue. If only for conversation,though the crux will fly over heads,which is of course more than half the [bleep] fun.(grin).



F&S made a great point,way back in The Day,when they cited that in order to reap these vastly superior benefits,one needn't trade anything away. The above Sleeping Beauty,caught the Sleeping Pill inside 25yds,which is neither here nor there and the very premise,in that there are no concessions at ANY distance or atmospheric condition. Thinkin' that's a rather nice constant,to have in the bank. The upside being,there ain't no downside,in either Theory or Application. Funny how facts is routinely comfortin'.(grin)

Fun to take a Red Ryder and pit it against Heavy Mettle and after doing so,everyone always greedily grabs for a 'Ryder.(grin) Seen it 1000's of times.



One of these days I'll have 7",8",9",10",12" and 14" twist 223's,to compare objectively and to finally see if there is sumptin' to all boolits,mebbe might not bein' equal,in their relative abilities.



Until then,I'll slum along makin' due,with F&S in my hip pocket and a 'Ryder on my shoulder.(grin) Fact is,a 'Ryder may even shine brighter,when granted the mechanical opportunity to nestle a kiss in it's belly. F&S did a nice piece on that,some time ago too.

Pics plagiarized,from that Article.





[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Rifle%20Stuff/IMG_1042.jpg[/img]

Kiss,find pressure and rock on. Hint.

Note that the 50V-Max has a better BC than the 64gr Nosler Goat [bleep] too. Just sayin'...and just mebbe,someone will be dumb enough to think it won't punch tags.(grin)

[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/BigStick/Stuff/Rifle%20Stuff/2R8G8317.jpg[/img]

Always easy to ascertain who shoots and who don't,thus my affinity for F&S's in depth reporting and their keen eye in staying abreast of the times...if only in extrapolation.

Hell,there's some Magazines,who still "think" twist rates and boolit selection don't much matter!?!

Laffin'!

When you get tooled up with all the stuff you want, you will come to love those 12 and 14 twists�they're skookum.

Im gonna try one of those 8 twists when it gets back from the smith, regardless of all the bad things I've heard about them.

Thanks math man. That makes sense to me. At least more sense than drinking whiskey without ice.


I think they call that flat front a 'meplat'�.a derivative from the latin 'splat' I'll bet�.

I once saw with my own eyes a doe hit in the heart with a 308 at just over 300yds that had her eyes popped out on one end and her intestines coming out her anus on the other. I thought that was odd.

I'd say that was odd too!

I am gonna try to introduce a whitetail doe to the 64 grainer�.to further my research�.

Geez, talk about a mercy killing.......I'd want to be shot too if I looked like that

Maybe you should try a .270 with 130 gr NP's and give a report.

Bump for LBP

Man, that bullet looks great. Great frontal area for a .224 bullet too.. Sounds like it works pretty danged well..

Just filled a doe tag late last evening with the Noslers. Sorry no pics and no recovered bullet this time. Lots of damage again�might hafta return to my TTSXs�.

Bummer. Fill us in on the damage and the shot(s).

plural ... did it take more than 1?

Yep. Took two�but the bullet was not at fault, poor shooting was First one hit too far back.My fault. Second landed high shoulder. Innards were blown up so we made a quick decision to filet her out Alaskan style, and boned her out with dressing .200 yds.

What kind of "damage" are you getting?

More than if you shot with a 243 softpoint?

What kind of "damage" are you getting?

More than if you shot with a 243 softpoint?

About exactly that, from a fast .243 85 grainer...

Oh boy--you know I didn't need to here that! I just got "settled" on my 85 Interbond load.

Same damage for less recoil...........Hmmmmmmm

I don't know how I missed this thread but I did. Anyway, I posted reviews of the 64 Gr Nosler on these other two threads. I really like this bullet.

64 gr Nosler Test Fire

22-250 Deer

I'm thinking it would be a super bullet for pigs LBP�.

Tom, I'm sure it would. That bullet really seems to hit critters hard. I've only taken four critters so far but none have made it more than a few yards and were dead on their feet. I wonder if it has to do with the wide melpat?

Wide meplat is what I'm thinking does the trick.

Me too, this bullet really works

I tested the 64 gr Nosler again tonight, this time on a 115 lbs whitetail doe. I shot her with my 22-250 NULA with a muzzle velocity of 3400 fps at about 40 yards. I hit her a little far back but still took out the lungs. The doe had an entrance wound that was .22 caliber in size and an exit wound about the size of a quarter. The doe ran about 25 yards leaving a moderate blood trail and fell. So far this year 5 critters have fell to 5 of these Nosler's from both my .223 and 22-250 at ranges from 35 yards to 251 yards. I really like this bullet.

Deadly little combo. The 15 or so deer I have shot with the 60 grain Partition had about the same internal damage as I get with a little stouter built .243 bullet but the distance ran after the shot was less. I did have 1 doe run maybe 100 yards due to hitting her far back, barely caught liver and did bust the diaphragm.

LBP as a side note, I ran some 64s through my Win M70 .22-250 Supposedly not a hot load, but they flew all over the place and pressures were so high I quit after 3 shots, later at the loading bench, a new primer wouldn't stay in those three primer pockets!

Fair to say the rifle didn't like them�.


Tooo bad...

Tom, do you think they might have been loaded a little long OAL and jammed? There is a forum somewhere on the web where a fellow destroyed a Stevens 22-250 (with Pics) using the 64 gr Nosler. I remember the fellow said he was using a medium well below max load.

Hmm I wonder what the deal is.

Nope OAL was good and I made sure there was a jump to the lands� Just a guess but the gun seems a little 'tight' overall, and the increased bearing surface increased pressures�.

They are all individuals thats for sure.

Satisfied on paper with my RAR 22-250 @100 looking forward to deer and yotes.64 gr. Nosler and CFE

My salvage .223 likes 'em pretty well too (shot at hunnert yds):

Gentlemen, I'm bettin' you will like'em that are killers.

Is a RAR a Ruger American Rifle? If it is would you answer a question for me?

I thought it was "Almighty Ingwe"

I kinda like that more�.

The 64 gr Nosler worked again this time from my .223 Nula at about 50 yards. The doe ran about 20 yards leaving a light blood trail.

LBP, you're slayin em

Yes Sir

Any updates on the performance of this bullet? They are available down here now, and I'm tempted to buy some for a bit of R & D on Fallow and Reds.

Mike,

I haven't used them since our season ended to give an update on them. I did use them on 2 pronghorns, 3 whitetails, and a turkey during the season. I used them from 30 yards out to about 250 yards in both a 223 and 22-250 and they flat out work. You can use them with confidence on fallows. Reds are bigger than our deer but the bullet will stay in one piece and penetration is good.

Good Luck,
LBP

Looks like I'm going to get a chance to try these out this fall. Been hearing that some 1-14 twist rifles won't stabilize these, but they seem to stabilize fine in both my Tikka 22-250 and my Pre-64 220 Swift. I was more worried about the Tikka since I have already tried 60gr partitions in it. Couldn't even hit the board at 100yds.

Started low since some people have had pressure issues, but no problems so far. Loaded one each at 0.3gr increments. Hit 3375 in the Tikka with no pressure signs. 3613 in the Swift. These weren't the heaviest loads I had loaded for either rifle, but it got too late for the chrono to work so I'll have to wait until next time to see where pressure signs will show.

From what I understand, my Swift was only used by the original owner as a deer rifle. I plan to continue that. I don't see ever taking a pristine Pre 64 Swift to a prairie dog shoot and risk overheating the barrel. I figure these Noslers will turn this rifle into some serious whitetail medicine!

Tate,

I think you will like the 64's, I know they are one of my favorites.

Good Luck, LBP