That was of apx 30/06 length (300 WinMAg etc all fit fine, full lenght MAgnums like 375, 8mm RemMAg, STW series do not)

What caliber barrel would YOU put on it?

Use is 100% Large bodied Mule deer bucks at long range, 400-600 yards being the norm.

My minimum parameter or happy place is a muzzle velocity of 3500fps, higher is better IMO and IME. Bullets will be light for caliber Moly'ed up Barnes TTSX's.

Leading contenders are:

257WBY

264 Winchester MAgnum

264/300 WinMag wildcat

25/300 WinMag wildcat

7mm Mashburn or other super speed 7mm

My barrel will be a fairly heavy 27.5 inch tube so will be more effecient at burning large amounts of slow burning powders to make good use of the ubervelocity numbers that come to our minds.

Thanks in advance for your advice and ideas! I have to order this barrel real soon, this is not a non sensical or pure theory excersize. I may actually change from what I was doing to do somthing fun from this thread.

Remember, if it ain't FAST, I ain't interested! <G>

One of the 7mm's.

Well, since I already have a 27.5 inch 257Wby , along with a 280 and a couple of 7Mags, I would have to go with one of the 264 choices.

I like the 257 Bee and the Mashburn.
Would add 270WBY also.

257 STW. You know why.

7mm Rem Mag.

One of the fast seven's. I'm real fond of the 7mm WSM. I've found that it can be loaded to within 100fps of the 7mm STW with the lighter bullets.

Absolutely 257 weatherby, again. And drop the barrel down to 22".

.257 Bee...perfect for deer. Flat as a laser.

7mm Remington Mag!

Considering the mag confines and the notion of speed, I'd be going 270wby or 257wby. 110gr or 100gr TTSX.

I'm a 6.5mm fan, so I'd go with the .264/.300 Win Mag wildcat suggestion. Otherwise - .257 Wby.

Thanks for the input so far! If I go 7mm, it will be the 7mm Mashburn Super again. As far as I can tell, the 7mm Remington has nothing to recommend it over the Mashburn Super version.

I think the 7-375 Ruger would be a hot ticket.

Lots of brass available, 120's at warp 9, standard action.

270 Wby

A sure enough fun number to toy with, but too long for a standard Mauser action. Longest and biggest I can go (I think) in my Mauser is the 25/300 Win Mag or any other 300 WinMag based wildcat. In a small tube like my 257WBY, I am not sure that there is anything to be gained in going bigger than 257WBY, but I could be wrong! 25/300 WinMag could be 'the one' here.

I am re-barreling the FN Mauser I got from you in our trade. Having he safety changed out, too.

Barnes load data shows right at 3,700fps using the 110gr in 270wby. And that's a 24" barrel. Just saying......

I'll ask. Why is a belt needed?

W

Would offer the LRM case for necking if box constraints are an issue and you want the most for the least... A 25 or 26 would be a laser.....

W

A 6.5/375 Ruger ever been done?

I realize its a belt less case, but that's gotta be a good thing.

I'm confused. Why would I want a belted mag?

Because 300 H&Hs don't come any other way ( unless they made a flanged version for doubles�)

The LRM would be a better mouse trap starting from scratch. Nothing wrong with the others but if you want capacity in a 2.5" case then it's Dakota or LRM/Ruger... Budget concerns would send me back to belts but the LRM brass is a pretty good deal considering... And should feed very well in the Mauser...

W

Wouldn't bother with any 2.5" mag cases if limited to a 3.34" mag on a Mauser. The long slinky 7mm high bc bullets will eat up your powder capacity by having to keep them at 3.34" or less. I can't tell you if Mauser actions are workable with the Wizzum or SAUM case diameters or if the mags will even work, I'm sure someone here can though. Using a big case only too lose case capacity for short seating requirements seems anal to me. Your gun ,your shot. The 6.5 SAUM sure seems like a hotty and way to fly from here. Go find an action that fits that to go forward the right way. Magnum Man

This.

Doubles.....470NE. Works on dik dik?

Or the .416 R?

H&H made some noble designs but so did others. I hanker for a .257 R. Roberts in a Highwall.

FWIW, in my situation, I would go with .257 Wby. I have a new .300 Win Mag and an old reliable 7mm Rem Mag, but would like to play around with a .25 caliber cartridge that is significantly faster than my .257 AI. Why, I don't know, as I rarely shoot anything that is more than 300 yards away. Maybe just to see how far away I can hit a coyote that is lolling around, thinking that he is safe.

If you're shooting light 7's (120'ish) at 3,500, you might as well unbuckle the belt and shoot 110's in a 270 at 3,400. It aint giving you jack. At that range I would t wanna mess with a BC under .500.

IMHO/CNABBS

Wouldn't neccisarily HAVE to be, but that is how most of the medium (30/06) length Magnum cases come.

So long as the case head/rim area will fit my H&H Magnum sized bolt face and the cartridges would not end up too fat to work in a K-98 or commercial Mauser magazine box I do have the latitude to go beltless if I want to.

What is this LRM case you are speaking of? What does LRM stand for or mean?

Two
Sixty
Four
Winchester
Magnum

LRM is 7LRM or a modded 375 Ruger case...

http://site-media.net/gunwerks/7LRMarticle(1).pdf

W

I like my 338 Win mag .I use 180 grain ballistic tips have it 2" high at 200 and can hold on hair to 360 yards.I have taken deer at 450 by holding on the top of their back. Drops them like sledgehammer to the head.

I already have a 338/8mm RemMag wildcat on a Magnum sized MAuser action, don't need or want another 33. Plus I would prefer a muck lesser recoil rifle for shooting mere deer.

Since you aren't interested in the 7mm Rem Mag,

.300 Win Mag or 7mm MSM. For simplicity's sake I'd likely go .300 Win but since you already had a MSM that probably doesn't matter to you.

With lighter bullets, I think the difference between the .300 and the 7RM is negligible at best. Have not shot a MSM but imagine it isn't a lot different. My rifle is a 7mm Rem Mag, and it kills big bodied Mule Deer (and other deer) very well FWIW.

Light for caliber is going to screw you outta the gate, unless there's no wind where you live. You can smoke .284 110's at 3,500, but they drift like 270 CorLokts.

Which is why I am seriously considering the 6.5/300 WinMag. So I can push some high BC 140gr bullets at above the happy place for Mark 3500fps point.

Another way of saying it is, why pick only ONE, high bc bullet VS high speed bullet, when one can possibly have it all? Especially with a 27.5 or 28 inch barrel?

As to rifle weight, a 10-1.5lb rifle feels quite light and manageable in my hands. XXL hands, 37 inch arm reach, fightin and playing weight of 245lbs, I do not shoot or do well with flyweight rifles or shotguns.

Damn Sasquach Magnum oughta do it then. Sounds like 127LRX is in your future....

Just for the hell of it, how about a .270/.338 Win Mag...should really smoke some 160gr Partitions...any why would you want anything common anyway?

For a deer rifle only,I'd sell what ya got and get a 6.5 Creedmore

7mm Wby

.350 Rem Mag . . . from deer to moose, elk, Grizz

30/338

A 7mm RM was my only big game bolt rifle for 20+ years. It took prairie dogs, coyotes, antelope deer and elk. For a dedicated deer rifle the 7mm RM stuffed with 140's to 160's is more than adequate out to 600 yards.

7mm Remington, 9 twist, #2 contour at 23". Throated for 168 Hybrids.

im kinda partial to the 300 wby

308 Norma just to be different.

WAY too slow, you are forgetting my 3500fps minimum muzzle velocity rule, stated in my thread parameters. Never understood why anyone would choose a 6.5 Creedmore over a 264 WinMag or other faster 264. Both shoot the same high BC bullets, but speed still does matter, and kill.

270 wby!

Had one, liked it pretty well, but was far too much gun for deer only. I have much bigger rifles for Elk and bear etc. Don't need or want the flexability etc. and none of the normal bullet weights in this round reach my minimum muzzle velocity (stated in my thread starter) of 3500 fps.

why on earth would anybody do that?

I have an uberfast 33 for big stuff, and a 416 Rigby for REALLY big stuff so do not need or want the versatility. And, what load did you see that drove any bullet with even a sorta good BC out the snout at 3500fps or more?

Mark never had one but thinking 3500 fps+ might be a stretch for 140's in a 6.5-300 Win Mag. I can see you outrunning a 264 with that case but not by enough to hit 3500.

I do know for sure that in a 7mm Dakota you will do 3550 with a 120 TTSX with RL22 because that's what I got in mine.Barrel was 24". A 7mm LRM is pretty much the same thing.

You are probably right. Someone else mentioned that to get to 3500, I might have to slum the 127gr Barnes LRX bullet. I could be happy with that one, methinks. Good BC, great terminal effect, and very high speed to boot.

On the 7mm front, my 7mm Mashburn Super pushed Moly'ed 120's out of the 26 inch spout at 3700fps so if I go with a 7mm, it will be the Mashburn Super version again.

What about a .300 Win mag using a 130 gr Barnes TTSX?

You could launch it at 3600 FPS and a .284 162 at 3100 and the 162 is going to have more speed and a lot more ass at the 500 yard line.

You can't screw physics and 162/.625 BC is about the dirtiest trick in the book. There may be something to the .277 150 ABLR (.625BC)

BC is everything, unless its a DG rifle. There its straight horsepower....

Physics is physics, numbers don't lie.......

Looks like a 270 Weatherby may be able to push that 150 ABLR to 3,300.

True. The 162 Amax a 3100 fps wins in energy and wind drift. In trajectory, the 130 would trump but only about a handswidth or so to 600 yards,as far as I looked.

I started the 130 XLC at almost 3700 from a 26" barrel of a 300 Win Mag and the Barnes Manual max load of H4350.Even compared at that velocity the 162 Amax still shows an advantage in wind and energy,only being beaten slightly in trajectory.

I like the Amax at 3200 fps.Anybody got any?



Damn! Just ran the 162 Amax on the Hornady Calculator at 3200 fps and 300 yard zero....no wonder I don't need turrets to 600 yards with that bullet. The dots on the 6X leupold work fine at 500 and 600.Looking at that table tells me why.

Mark I'd get a 7 magnum of some sort,use this bullet at 3200 fps....it has legs.

I do... But I'm only pushing them a measly 3,050 via a 24" 7 Rem. I'll take that over any 3500fps ping-pong ball Barnes. Sane pressures, mild starting velocity, and high BCs are where it's at.

Tanner

Thats a little harsh�..

7mm 168 LRX @ .550 wouldn't hurt. You play with the numbers enough and a fella can really start to hate 162's. Mainly cause it can't be touched, unless you can squeeze 3,300 outta 150 ABLR.

Stick has preached this sermon umpteen times and the ending is always the same......

Either 264 Win Mag or 7mm Weatherby Mag.

That one looks interesting.

Tanner you are so deprived!

Another thought would be to just wait and see what Nosler's "need" offering will be.

.284 120 TTSX at 3500 looks a lot like a .277 110 TTSX at 3,400.

Look for the highest BC at the fastest velocity and the rest of the schit will work itself out.....

Lazy way out could be to buy a Sendero SFII in 7mm Ultra Mag. its not 3500fps but the 162 A-Max at 3300fps should work nicely.

Anyone know what the BC is on the Barnes 127gr LRX bullet? If it is in the over .500 range and especially in the close to 600 mark then that one out of a 6.5/300 WinMag is a strong contender.

I still love the "Lights out, right NOW!" or DRT feature of mega high impact velocities, but sure can see how the BC is important to the equation. I just snagged some 115gr Barnes TTSX 25 calibers, I am needing to find out the BC on those as well. Should be considerably higher than the 100 TTSX.

I do not allow any Model 700's or any other push feed bolt guns into my safe. And the 7mm Mashburn Super was close enough - speed wise - to make it preferable to the RUM in my book. Also, the last RUM I had, a 300, was concussion city at the muzzle and rang my eardums but good every time I fired it. It was for the noise reason that I sold my awesome model 70 classic 300 RUM. And no it did not have one of those infernal, damnable muzzle breaks. I do not use Muzzle brakes ever, at all. Them and Model 700's are just non starters for me.

Thanks for the input, though. IF a guy was going to build a 1,000 yard deer blaster, and could shoot from a bench with double muffed ears, a custom build or even that Sendero in 7RUM would be a pretty darned great choice.

MidwayUSA lists BCs as follows:

127/6.5 LRX = .468

120/6.5 TTSX = .443

I have never seen nor heard of a 115 gr/257 cal TTSX? MidwayUSA doesn't list em; just the TSX which = .429. The 100 gr/257 cal TTSX = .357.

EFW,

I had not heard of the TIPPED TSX 115's either until I bought these. And the Tipped version of the 100gr Barnes is far from a ping pong ball, having a better BC than many or most of the long for caliber .224 bullets touted so highly by the users of those slugs.

With the intended bullet (if I stay in 25 caliber) perhaps being a 115gr slug, the 25 might need to be the 300 WinMag necked down as well to get that large, long bullet up to my minimum needed(by me) speeds.

The 127 LRX has some potential, I will have to run some numbers after a bit.

Very good point! <pun intended>

Seems to me you're gonna have to go 6.5 or 7 using the parameters you've laid out for yourself.

Barnes web-site does not even list the 25 cal. 115 ttsx. So can' help you out with the b.c. of that one.

Thanks, I had checked there. Time for an e-mail to Jessica Brooks or Ty Harrington at Barnes.

Yep, kinda what I have been thinking. The trouble is, how do we combine a high BC bullet, WITH really high starting speeds, and also comfortable recoil? Compromises must be made, and whatever is picked will lean strong or weak on one point or another. Add in some level of efficiency and some barrel life to the equation and it gets pretty difficult. Whish is exactly why I started this thread. I am softening some on my need for speed (used to not care about a cartridge that was not close to the 4,000 mark and now I am talking myself down to living with maybe 3500fps as a new minimum.

I think the fast twist 6.5/300 WinMag wildcat is leading in my mind right now.

Were you ever a gymnast?

Sheesh Mark at this rate you'll be pickin up a trapdoor 45/70 in no time !

I think the answer to all of this is an elevation turret.

Tanner

safariman,

If it has to be a belted magnum, I would choose the .257 Weatherby, as I did nearly 30 years ago. A better caliber, with 100 gr. bullets pushed to 3700 fps, is hard to imagine.

My Wby MkV, with its 26" barrel, has accounted for many mulies, as well as other game species, some at very long ranges.

Vanilla 300WM will push a 150 TTSX 3,400fps. You're going around your [bleep] to get to your elbow. Energy at 500 is the same.

BC is BC and the difference between .468 and .420 is hardly worth building a rig around.

Almost dupes 270/110TTSX/3400........again

It's a ballistics discussion; of course we are!

I have a push feed M70 in 300 win Mag 24" bbl SAAMI std throat LA with mag factory blocked to 3.38 gets 3100 fps with 180 NPT's and RL-22 max doze, Nosler #6 and chrono verified. My other M70 push feed is a 30-338 LA and throated to seat out at 3.55" and so the 180 NBT's don't encroach on the powder capacity like the 300 win does. With 7-8 grs less powder the 30-338 gets 3150 fps at 10' chrono verified. It will take the slinkiest high BC bullets without denting possible powder capacity. 30" barrel it's a big b*tch and all performance. You need a long mag for what you want in performance with the H&H based case and a long barrel. Don't think you can get around that unless you step down to 100 gr bullets in 257 Wthby mag for length in that dink mag .Or go to short and fat cases in a LA to seat out.good luck

Another good option.

Why. Are you afraid one of your CRF's will catch a case of accuracy ?

My "deer rifle" would not have a belt.

Not that there's anything wrong with those who swing towards the belt, gay though it may be

Seems like a lot of trouble/expense to kill a deer at 400/600 YDS.

Always amused by those that "need" a CRF to kill a deer.

Can't explain it any clearer. 162 is King of the Jungle......

Blasphemer!

My deer/antelope/sheep rifle for the past 30+ years has been my .257 Ackley. I've never felt that I needed anything more.

However, If I was to start over, I'd probably go with a .257 Weatherby.

Where did Mark say it was a need? Could just be a preference, like yours for PF?

For deer, only a preference. That said, I like for all of my rifles to be as similar as possible in as many ways as possible so that practicing and shooting with one extrapolates largely to the other firearms. My BIG game rifles are all CRF and three position safety units, and I want the best of the best for my deer rifle even if I don't truly NEED CRF, fixed ejector, claw extractor etc.

You made it sound as if your gun safe was some sort of temple.....ie "allow 700's or PF's"

6-284 or SAUM and 105's

No more than in my home, where Obama Voters or other commies are not allowed entrance. A man has got to have some standards, no push feeds is one of mine. You can set your barometer of standards wherever you wish, of course.

Thank you for responding to me.

Don't ever mean not to, forgive me if I have seemed to not give weight or value to your posts. No intention of a slight, at all.

.240 Weatherby only since you wanted a belt, 80 grain Barnes TTSX at 3500+ fps. Other than that I'd maybe run a 6mm-06 and go beltless.

It'd be like a 22-250 shooting 75 Amax at 400 yards....

300 Weatherby. Near or far. Heavy bullets or light.

Still say the 7mm Weatherby. Almost as flat as .257 and still able to shoot the 175gr at over 3000fps. The 7mm Bee w/ the 120gr Barnes at 3600fps is a fearsome combination. How's that for speed and flat trajectory. powdr

Pretty impressive, but last years deerzapper(a 7mm Mashburn Super) pushed the 120's to 3700 and would have made some good velocities with the heavier bullets as well, I am sure. I still might go that way again.

Awesome, and maybe the best, all around hunting rifle cartridge ever. But, way more power and kick than needed for pure deer hunting and shooting as I already have an uberfast 33 and 416 for truly large game.

It is not so much that I WANT a belted case, it is because my build basis FN sporting Mauser rifle has already been opened up - bolt face and feed rails - to operate with medium length belted magnum cartridges. The 240 uses a 30/06 size bolt face so would not work for this application.

If I was going to go 6mm, the only viable option would be to build a 6mm/257WBY.

I hunted deer for a few years with a similarly powered 6/284, but found it wanting for power at the more extreme ranges. This experiment, however, was before the 105 A-Max bullet was released so the 6mm caliber might warrant a new look now.

If I decided to build a 6mm/257WBY, I have plenty of brass to neck down for that project.... another viable option there, perhaps.

264 Winchester Magnum! I'll post pics of my new one in a couple weeks when it gets here but you're going to hate it!

Both that one and the wildcat 264/300 WinMag are leading contenders for being my next barrel chambering i.e. this particular build.

I'd probably go with the 7mm Remington Magnum, but if it was a rfile just to be used for deer, I'd go with the 257 Weatherby.

308 norma

I meant hate my build! lol 700 clone mcmillan stock stainless/cerakote etc.

I think one of the 6.5's will do you well. You can try your light fast bullets and see how they perform and then step up to the high BC 140's to compare. Good luck!

BurninDupont,

I figured that part out, amigo. You are correct, sir, that I would not find the build particualarly to my liking as to style, but I totally dig the cartridge choice. One of my best friends in the world, and long time hunting buddy is still packing a Pre-64 Model 70 "Westerner" that I gave him a screamin "good buddy discount" deal on a couple of decades ago and that rifle has been a deer and elk killing machine for him.

I am still leaning toward an uberfast 6.5 on this re barrel. If I do a 300 WinMAg necked down to 6.5, I can drive those 140gr bullets to some pretty high muzzle velocities.

Might be the best of both worlds, this 264 / 300 cartridge....

.300 H&H is the only belted cartridge that interest me. The .300 Weatherby is ok I suppose...

Mashburn or .264 WinMag for me. As Boxer is fond of saying, it's all about the bullets...

The cartridge that I decided on, and ordered for my barrel after much deliberation is a marriage of the two! 7mm Mashburn Super necked down to 6.5/264.

I am planning to run the newly released Barnes LRX (Long Range TTSX) high BC 127gr bullet in it. Should be able to reach about 3600fps with it since I was getting 3700 with 120's out of my 7mm Mashburn. Combining that kind of initial speed with a high BC and high SD bullet, that also has fantastic terminal effect should be a real winner in the hunting fields. Wouldn't be at all afraid to use it on an elk, though I have larger rifles for that sized game and larger (uberfast 33, 416 etc)

FOTIS, Very nice shooting with that 277 Roy of yours, for sure! Can't see where that one would not work, even though I have decided on mine in a slightly different direction.

The 6.5 MAshburn should give up Weatherby Speeds with a bullet whose BC is .200, or about 50% higher than the best bullets I had for my 257Roy.

Sounds slow to me, I'd have necked that case down to 6mm and set the rifle up for the 80 gr TTSX.

Picked mine over 42 years ago...300 Win.

Limited to only the belted case magnums, I,d have suggested the 300 wby is a good choice ,especially if you hand load, and while Ive never really felt the 300 wby was my personal ideal,caliber, "which is odd, simply because its performed flawlessly for me for decades." I can,t think of any situation I've every been in when its not performed well.
my 300 wby ,loaded with 200 grain speer bullets,pushed to about 2960fps with a stiff load of H4831 and a 215 fed primer, has up to now had an un blemished record of DRT kills but to be fair Ive used it mostly on mule deer, and rarely have taken shots at over 300 yards, and I doubt the total kill exceeded 12 mule deer that Ive used it on, over the last 45 years..btw its a browning 78 with a 26" length barrel similar to this picture

No

NO to whom? To what? The response does not match the thread or conversations to this point in the least, that I can tel.... What is the point you are making?

244 H&H.Short mag grin.

THAT, is funny right there.

I remember staring at that cartridge in PO Ackleys books and in Cartridges of the world and thinking, What The Heck???? That thing, with its llllloooooooooonnnnnnngggggg sloped shoulder and full length H&H length looks as long as my forearm!

I have toyed with building one on a 1917 Enfield action from time to time, and I bet it would be a great performer with todays bullets and powders. It WOULD be different, and eye catching for sure.