I get several PM's asking questions about what I do to improve accuracy with Kimber Montana's. I've decided to start a thread detailing the steps I take and the things I look for shortly after buying one.

First and foremost, I'm not a gunsmith. These "improvements" weren't mine by design. I asked several questions to several guys on here that assisted me in the process. I'd love for those guys to chime in and add value to the thread too. Everybody has their own methods.

This isn't intended to be a Kimber bashing platform. I'm a huge fan of the rifle. To be perfectly honest, I had some troubled rifles in the beginning of my journey and swore them off a few times. I kept going back because NOTHING feels as good in my hands as the 84M Montana. I learned a few tricks and the rifles soon started to perform up to my expectations. I've owned a few -- my 20th is in route.

This isn't a thread of arrogance. Several guys on here have more rifle knowledge and experience than I possess. I just want to explain in detail what I learned through others and tinkering. I'd rather do this here than go through the process many times via PM.

More to follow...

The first potential accuracy robbing issue hides inside the stock. The last several Montana's I've owned have an issue with the mag box. The mag box has been longer than necessary and this creates undo stress and torque on the action.

The Kimber mag box has three protrusions (223 has three plus the spacer). The protrusions bottom out and won't allow the magazine to "float". The picks below are from a Mountain Ascent. Same insides, just painted a different color.

Note the black spots in the bottom of the stock. This is where the protrusions bottom out and remove the paint/dig into the stock.



The pics below are of the bottom of the mag box. Notice the paint residue on the protrusions.

Tag

The binding mag box creates several issues. Besides the oblivious, I think it creates a bigger issue with Kimber rifles.

The action is small and doesn't have much beef in the metal underneath. I believe the action flexes under recoil and a binding mag box amplifies the problem.

More pics from the Ascent below, but the white paint really shows rubbing well. With the mag box bound, the barrel shank wasn't fully seated against the slave bedding -- which is another problem, but we'll get to that in a bit.

Note the rubbed spots in the shank area of the stock, barrel and tang.







This action was moving upon recoil. You'll never achieve any level of acceptable accuracy with the action moving around in the stock.

The fix for the mag box is simple. Ten minutes with a Dremel and the protrusions are ground down a little. I measure the mag box before I start grinding with a caliper. I try to take off about .050".

I don't want to remove too much, just enough. I reassemble the rifle -- minus the follower and spring -- and torque accordingly. Open the bolt, stick a couple fingers in the action and make sure it has a little wiggle room. If the box is still binding, it won't budge. It should move a little side to side at this point.

If all is good, I polish the metal a little where I've been grinding and hit it with a blue pen.

Tag

As I stated before, I believe the action flexes upon recoil. Kimber's slave bedding aides that issue. The recoil lug is small and the lug inlet in the stock is spacious.

In my opinion, the lug needs to be bedded tight to eliminate this issue. Some guys bed the entire action, some drop a dab in the lug recess and some guys give everything a nice skim bedding.

I usually bed the action forward of the mag well, the lug and a portion of the shank. I also left the shank area free of bedding and allowed the barrel to float all the way to the lug. This has worked well too.

I prep the stock with a Dremel and alcohol, then tape it off.

The pics below show the method I use when I float the barrel all the way back to the lug. Doing this, I only apply bedding to the sides and back of the lug recess. You'll still get some ooze on the front of the lug



After bedding compound is in the stock...



I don't tape the bottom or front of the lug. I know some do, but I want it tight on a Kimber. After the bedding cures, I usually Dremel out the bedding in the bottom of the lug well so it doesn't bottom out.

Awesome buddy!! The same can be said for other makes like the model 70's. This thread should be a sticky...Brad will probably chime in on a few things he has found on the Kimbers as well.

Great idea, SAS, thanks for taking the time to post up your remedies.

I use a bedding stud from Brownells (same as 700) to make sure I have things centered nicely in the front pillar. I tape the stud to allow for minimal clearance and then start spraying. I use Hornady One Shot as my release agent and I've never had a problem. I spray everything (with the stud in), let it dry, then spray again.







Once the action is in the stock, I insert the action screw in the tang. I tighten the screw two-finger tight. I do nothing to the front stud. My goal is totally stress free bedding.

Forgot to mention -- I put a couple of wraps of tape on the barrel near the end of the forearm. I do this to keep the barrel centered in the channel. You can also adjust the spacing of the barrel in the channel when inserting the tang screw. I do both to make sure things are straight..

I use AcraGlas Gel. Other bedding compounds work too, it's just what I started with. My comfort level is there with the product

I let the bedding cure a minimum of 10 hours. I've tried popping it out earlier, but the results were poor for me.

After 5-6 hours, I take a toothpick and clean the bedding ooze from the sides of the action. I wait until it's firm enough to make a nice clean break from the bedding in the stock. The compound will still be a little tacky at this point, but most of the elasticity will be gone. I keep the unused bedding compound to use as a hardening gauge.

I pop the action out of the stock and inspect.



These pics are from a Montana that I bedded under the shank.





I then take an a Exacto knife and trim things up. I remove any excess, trim around the pillar hole and get everything out of the mag well. I don't have a pic in photobucket after I trimmed....but take out everything that doesn't need to be there.

Back to the mag box....

For those of you with a 223 or 204, the pic below show the rear of the mag box with the spacer protrusion.



The spacer always digs into the stock because of the elevated edges in the mag well.



Rather than completely shorten the spacer protrusion, I just shorten it a bit with a Dremel and then do some stock inletting. I basically remove enough of the hump in the bottom of the mag well to allow the magazine to float. It takes a few seconds with a Dremel.

Another accuracy robbing issue I often encounter is the length of the front base screw. I only use Talley LW low's on a Montana. The front most screw is longer than needed. The bottom of the screw bottoms out on the barrel threads. This prohibits the base from being fully seated and allows the front of the base to move. Not to mention the fact that you could be messing with barrel harmonics...

The picture below shows shiny spots on the threads. They don't look like this from the factory. The shiny, flattened spots are a direct result of the screw making contact. I don't have a "before" picture in Photobucket, you'll have to trust me on this...



The pic below shows all four base screws AFTER the front screw has been shortened. All four screws are the same length when shipped from Talley. I shortened the screw on the far left with a Dremel. I'm posting this pic as a reference as to how much I take off the screw.

Hitting the nail on the head with everything so far. I see things that would simplify your approach and get the same results. But looking very good so far. Like I said before, a lot of these same things can be done to the model 70 to insure your going to come out on top in the accuracy dept. Good thread, carry on...

Which gave better results, bedding the lug and shank or just the lug?

The front action screw is also an enemy. It's too long as well and bottoms out in several Montana's I've owned as of late.

The pics below aren't great and it's hard to see what I'm referencing. In person, the results are glaring. The screw makes contact and polishes things up a bit. As usual, if your front action screw isn't fully seated groups will open up considerably.

Some guys use lipstick or a magic marker to check this. I've done so in the past. The action below was as new, then after about 20 shots. Things are polishing up and showing me the screw needs some attention.

As new...



After...

Hard to compare, but the most accurate Kimber I've ever owned had only the lug bedded. It was floated all the way back...

Thx. I have a 270 wsm that is showing great potential....I think one of these easy fixes might just make it perfect.

Look at the mag box first. I think that's the modification that makes the biggest impact. Bedding is good too, but nothing will work if the mag box is too long.

Thanks for the advice

I bedded my .223 this AM (waiting anxiously), the mag box was digging in real bad. Will take notice of the other screws also.

Thanks for the thread and the effort

I sure wish these Kimber tricks would work on other rifles.

Good stuff. Mirrors what I did to mine. I lightened the trigger just a tad and also shot part of the Tubbs Final Finish kit to really even out the barrel. I had no issues with the mag box. I bedded the shank as well as the lug.

I realize your comment was in jest....

But these are truly the biggest culprits to Kimber's reputation in my opinion. No real tricks involved, just a few minutes of tinkering. I find these issues with every Kimber I purchase, not just a random few.

The trigger can be adjusted to perfect and the crown can be improved, but the things I listed are the most detrimental out of the box.

....and yes, Kimber should address all of this before we open the box.

Great thread Darrik!


To be honest I'm not into dicking around with rifles that much but it really is pretty quick and easy to bed/tweak a Montana.

Love my 243, have a grand total of 1-2 hours into getting it good to go. Didn't even fiddle with the 257 Roberts and it shoots almost as good as Tikka......grin!

I never left.

Rifles with tupperware stocks, plastic trigger guards and parts, protruding plastic magazines, and even short action rounds chambered in long actions are far too common. In fact common is a perfect word for them.

The Kimber Montana is unique in the market, as I expect the Forbes rifles will be.

The Forbes rifle is right up there with Unicorns and Sasquatch as far as I can tell.


They don't really exist, but people SWEAR they saw one for realsies.

My main gripe with my Kimber 84L was a short front action screw

A Remington rear action screw from Brownell fixed it

If you're talking stainless, that's true, but there's quite a few 24B's in blue around.

I actually passed on the first (and still only) 20B I have seen (I didn't need a 308, and want stainless too). It didn't last long.

Here it is:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=380401080

Good thing I didn't see it! The serial number is 10 -- Rick told me they built 10 in the first run. I bet Melvin had a hand in these...

The next batch is 50, first 7-08's. I have one coming with a stainless barrel and a Hunter Green stock.

Can't wait!

Great thread Darrik, thanks for taking the time.

Sorry I didn't think to PM you.

Once I decided to pass I gave a heads-up to a guy I knew was waiting for one.

It lasted a lot longer than I thought it would.

Your order sounds like a dupe of what mine would be.

I was always ascared of spending my hard earned money on a Kimber,but now I sees a glimmer of hope. Mebbe by next Xmas,the stars will align.

They seem handy and prolly even dandy.

I full bedded mine with great results

You could add a bunch here. What about the action modification for increased COAL?

Yep, just yanking your chain and it's all good information. I bet you are referring to some action grinding, I would like to see that posted again too.

Rifles is rifles and many are in a hurry to forget that. There's no "Magic" involved and Starting At The [bleep] Start will ALWAYS bear fruit. The vast majority of "issues" I've seen,are due to incorrect assembly. I still loves to procure rifles,that "don't shoot".

To reliably arrange happiness and harmony,one needs to savvy twist/throating/COAL latitude...so he can kiss,find pressure and rock on,which is where the warm/fuzzy reliably resides.

A magbox Spacer Shim Slide,is a breeze on all things made out of metal,but things can get phony fast on Barbie Doll Schit(Tikka for example). The Spacer Shim Slide is a more involved affair upon a CRF platform,because there is more schit going on and not nearly as simplistic as PF,so are more problematic by their very nature. Hardly Rocket Science or an 82 Trick Move venture,but things rate a thunk.

I'll not beat it up here,if only because I've lined it all out,on Threads dedicated to same. Happiness is a rifle with the requisite RPM to spin the projectile of intent,that will feed kisses of same from it's belly. Very easy to gun issued COAL ammo and fodder slated the throat in extrapolation,then weigh them findings wayyyyyyy in advance of everything. Lotsa dots reliably get connected in sucha fashion.

Lotsa folks are eager to get the cart in front of the horse and I'll never understand why.

Curious.

Thanks for the post, I have a couple of 84Ms and appreciate the information.

Gotta pull my 84m apart and check all these tips out.

Thanks
Eric

Thanks SAS! I will be bedding the lug on my 7mm08 Montana. It has huge gaps on both sides which can't be good. My mag box is good to go from the factory as well as the trigger. It shoots pretty well now but I'm sure it can be better with a "tweak"

Hey SAS, what in/lbs are you tightening the action screws to.
Also, is there away to increase the magazine length for more coal

Thanks for your time
Eric

I go 45 on both....but I've been known to go tighter too. Some guys go tighter, but that's where I stay. The action is pillar bedded and should be good to go once a true bedding job has been completed.

If your mag box is binding, the tighter you go the worse things get.

308 magazine or 223 magazine?

For clarity, these are simple things you should check out on every rifle you purchase. I identified them as Kimber Montana issues because EVERY Montana I've owned of late shared these common traits.

With the 20th in route, I consider it more than just a consequence.

Thanks Darrek. Good stuff. Maybe Kimber has listened to you. I just checked my 84L montana and the mag box was not binding. However the front screw on the talley lightweight did make contact. A simple file pass or two and it no longer hits the barrel threads.

thanks again

Please take this as a question, and not to open a wrath of sh- - on this thread. With issues such as SAS said...."I identified them as Kimber Montana issues because EVERY Montana I've owned of late shared these common traits", as well as numerous documented other issues on these forums, I have to as why are the Kimber faithful so in love with these rifles? I'm just curious as to why people think they're so great if most every one requires tinkering and fiddling around with to get to perform? Thanks.

for me its cause they are light enough to make them real nice to pack in the hand as much as possible when hunting broken country or thick timber.....an extra pound in the pack and no one is gonna notice...an extra pound on the shoulder(slung) and everyone will notice but wont bother most....however that extra pound in the hand does make a hell of a difference for bout anyone and if yah dont think so im guessing your rifle stays on your shoulder most of the time.....

plus with my chit knees i am limited to how much total i can carry and a lil bit off the rifle can be traded for water and keep me out longer as i get dehydrated easier than most...

JG --

The tinkering I suggested really doesn't take much work. A few minutes and all is good.

I consider the Kimber ergo's to be the best of the best. I love the weight and the CRF action. The trigger is as good as any after market hunting trigger I've encountered. Stainless, ADL, nice factory stock --- great value for $1100.

How much lighter is it than a T3 Lite? I've had 4 knee surgeries btw, and I carry my stuff across sand and sandhills. You'd guess wrong in my case about keeping it strung on my shoulder (if that was directed at me). You're starting to sound like safariman....every post you make lately sounds like you whining about your health or physical condition.

SAS, makes perfect sense.

i dont have a T3 Lite....do know my Montana in 260 with steel bases, scope, sling and 4 in the mag weights less than my wifes Remington Seven Youth in 7-08 with no scope, bases, rings, sling and an empty magazine.....plus the Montana has a more normal barren contour and length

JGR,

As already pointed out once or twice, the tweaks advocated doesn't just apply to Kimber. It's an excellent check list one should go through for every bolt action rifle no matter the manufacturer.

Everything that has been posted is not that difficult, and doesn't take a trained gunsmith to sort out. Nor does it involve a tremendous amount of time or money.

People don't seem to realize that what you're actually getting for the dollar is a bargain. Where else would one obtain a scaled down stainless steel CRF 3-posi safety rifle that tips the scale at just a little over 5lbs, and already comes equipped with a McMillan comparable synthetic stock for 900-1300 dollars and points and handles like a dream in the hunting fields???

Even IF I were be so unlucky as to acquire a Kimber that doesn't shoot because of a POS barrel (I've rebarreled two, and not because of a POS standard barrel), I'd still not bat an eye. Even if I had to screw on an aftermarket tube, it's still worth the price of admission IMHO.

I've been fortunate to own, handle, and hunt with a lot of different rifles over the years. When it comes to a factory mass produced off the shelf rifle, Kimber as a total package is far and away head and shoulders above the rest IME.

Obviously, for some folks YMMV.

I'd swing along with what Fosteology said. The Kimbers are pretty unique in terms of the features wrapped in a package for the money. Over the years I have seen precious few factory rifles that did not benefit from some judicious tweaking...certainly some needed nothing at all, but many benefit from the kind of treatment guys have discussed on here.

I have never carried a Kimber in the field except for the Varmint models but that isn't because I wouldn't. I have owned and shot 6-8 of them.

When you finish the same kind of tweaks you do on most any factory rifle you have something light weight and easy to carry , "normal" barrel length for the intended cartridge, a well proportioned and designed stock (wood or synthetic),and enough accuracy for any rational use.

Even in a custom or semi-custom rifle to get the same weight reductions and features, you have to shell out substantially more dough and I am not sure you end up any better off.

I think a Montana in 7/08 and 7mm WSM are about as good as a guy can get in their respective power categories, and in a factory rifle for the money. No flies on the 84L in long action chamberings either.

You summed it up pretty well Darrik.


I used to be one of those guys that never owned/shot a Kimber and always wondered why guys were willing to play 'Kimber Roulette'. Or have to 'fiddle with them' to get 'em to shoot.

Negative reports from 6-8 years ago were fairly common. I bought a couple (new)Sako's instead of Kimbers just because I wanted a really 'accurate' rifle. Hell I didn't even reload at the time!


For the last 10 months the only rifle I ever want use/bring along is that 243 Kimber. I just love the way it handles and carries. Great stock, great trigger, nice action, it's a rifle that can actually get used and basically last forever.





JG, the .243 with one of Pat's MT slings and 4 cartridges weighs 6 lb 11 oz..

Should be around 6.5lbs with just the rifle and scope.


A .308 would be even lighter with it's skinnier barrel. Too light for me but that is subjective. The 243 and 257 models have plenty of barrel, handle great, not whippy at all. I would love to get an 84L in 270.

Honestly I've never got a new rifle of any manufacture that never had some of these issues. Sakos with bound magazines, bolt releases that don't release, and crappy injection moulded floppy stocks on a rifle that cost more than kimbers. New winchester that I bought last weekend that has really creepy trigger, bound magazine and a crown that is damaged, Remington's with terrible triggers, off centre chambers, out of alignment scope mounting holes. Savages that are so rough and clunky I don't even want to work on them. Kimber doesn't in any way have a monopoly on sloppy assembly or poor machining. Thing is with kimbers you get a rifle that you can work on, do a few judicious adjustments and have a real hummer rifle without having to resort to purchasing aftermarket stocks, triggers etc while ending up spending more to get the same end result in rifles that generally weigh at least a pound heavier.

These "tweaks" are just standard checks on any bolt action rifle. They are not Kimber specific. For example, I've experienced all of those he has mentioned on Remington Model Sevens that I dearly love.

What SAS has done for us is collate the most common "tweaks" he sees on Kimbers into one post so that they are easy to find.

im much the same....the Montana just fits me and im far more likely to grab it than any other of my big game rifles even if im just road hunting for yotes and not planning on packing it anywhere.....it was just a flat out well thought out design....nice and trim and light and unlike most production light rifles isnt horribly muzzle light/arse heavy.....my wife loves her rem seven youth but its heavier than my 84M, though lighter than most production guns and horribly muzzle light to me.....

JG . . . I didn't see that anybody directly answered your question about weight, so I'll try.

According to Kimber, the 84M weighs 5lbs. 2oz. in 7-08 or 308, 5lbs. 4oz. in 243 and 257, and 5lbs. 6oz. in 204 and 223.

The Tikka technical specification says the T3 Lite is 6lbs. 3oz. in standard calibers.

So the short answer is, about a pound lighter.


You can see the specs here:

http://www.tikka.fi/pdf/specs/LiteStainless.pdf

http://www.kimberamerica.com/rifles/model-84m/montana




.

7-08 that I had Ackleyerized....the only thing I wish, is that I could play around with bullet seating depth more.
Other then that I love this rifle

Eric

'Raider,

Your sheer and utter cluelessness,remains magnificent in it's magnitude.

Congratulations?!?

The only thing you shoot is your mouth and Imagination and I find it curious that you are always in such a hurry to reiterate same.

Wow +P.










'123,

You've no box moves,but had great opportunity at the punch-out,to setback and throat as per whim in accords to OEM confines.

Hint.

65 in/lbs is spec fwiw.

My buddy and I just went through these steps on his new Kimber Mt 7-08 to fix his rifle. Once scope rings arrives, we'll see how it shoots. I have rather high expectations.

Pretty funny though that Kimber on the phone admitted to shipping out all their recent rifles with too big of an action screw, that bottomed out. Well done Kimber. (grin)

I'm in the market for a 7-08 MT if anybody knows of one.

Tag

Mon"tinker"

The only thing I shoot consistently is big zzzz mule deer bucks, on the place that you were too much of a panzyazzz, broke, drunken, midget to show up for a potentially free hunt. You got the lip service part down pat though.

As I told you before.....chew on this half man....."Como le dije antes, puedo comprar todas sus cosas con el dinero en mi bolsillo."

Shortactionsmoker,

As a Kimber 84M owner really appreciate this thread! Well done.


Any fixes for creep on the trigger?

regards
JohnT

You should be able to get rid of the creep with the sear engagement adjustment.

JG, what does it cost to shoot one of those deer?

'Raider,

I always get a kick out of your Whining Do Nothing Kchunt! Bless you heart. You poor stupid [bleep],it's a shame you are too stupid to savvy how [bleep] stupid you are. Laffin'!

You keep telling yourself that Texas,Spanish and Free...is the way to roll.

Wow +P+.

You damned near thought about saying sumptin' about a rifle,but KNOWED better.

Laffin'!










JohnT,

Anyone asking a question like that,had best not be [bleep] around with adjusting a trigger(ANY trigger). Take it to someone with a clue.

Hint.










Sammo,

The fences help her a smidge.(grin)

Any chance someone could explain this process?

I just last night figured out how to do it on a Remington. No clue about a Kimber. Sorry.

Shame once again a very good thread has to get chit on by certain people.

Couple definitions of a certain someone that I think fit well?


Narcissistic Adult Bully: This type of adult bully is self-centered and does not share empathy with others. Additionally, there is little anxiety about consequences. He or she seems to feel good about him or herself, but in reality has a brittle narcissism that requires putting others down.

Verbal Adult Bully: Words can be quite damaging. Adult bullies who use this type of tactic may start rumors about the victim, or use sarcastic or demeaning language to dominate or humiliate another person. This subtle type of bullying also has the advantage - to the bully - of being difficult to document. However, the emotional and psychological impacts of verbal bullying can be felt quite keenly and can result in reduced job performance and even depression.


This was on tv a few weeks back, just googled it and sure enough here it is. Think it hits all the marks fairly well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCXXH3QTm7o

Thanks cal. Agreed.

I think this thread is very good. Thanks SAS and others. I am wondering about removing the trigger creep as well.

'gwe,

Triggers is easy,but folks asking such questions...had best leave it to others.

That'll save 'em cooking schit off.

Hint.









'74,

I see you are far more at ease in Whining,than you are talking 'bout rifles. Congratulations?!? Mebbe take your hurt feelers and scroll along and let the men talk. Hint.

You Whining Kchunts are a hoot!

Simply shut the [bleep] up,take notes and apply same...if only because it'll much improve your game.

Hint.











'nautique,

I find it fascinating,that you Boobs stick your heads so deeply up your asses,so as to miss these most simplistic of matters.

You can only be lead to water,but it IS funny,when you don't drink.

Hint.

If you are stupid enough to be asking about a trigger's adjustment,you assuredly shouldn't be [bleep] with a trigger's adjustment. Hint.

Who dresses you in the morning and chews your food for you?

Wow.

Actually, the trigger adjusts similar to the old style Remington.

I don't have a rifle in front of me -- I'm at work, so bear with me.

The trigger housing has three screws, two on the front and one on the back. IIRC, all screws are Allen, but the front two also have a hex nut.....I think (going off memory) the rear is just an Allen.

You'll first need to remove the red material prohibiting the nuts and screws from turning.

The two screws on the front adjust over travel (top screw) and weight of pull (bottom screw). The screw in the rear is sear engagement.

Once the nuts are loose, back out the front screws a bit.

With the rifle cocked, tighten the rear screw until the firing pin drops. (You can actually see sear engagement through a small hole in the housing). Back the screw off 1/4 turn.

Work the bolt so the rifle is cocked and tighten the over travel (top front) screw until it makes slight contact with the trigger.

Pull the trigger. Adjust the weight of pull to your liking.

Tighten the hex nuts. Work the bolt and dry fire the rifle several times. Take a rubber mallet and bang the tang to make sure the rifle doesn't accidental discharge.

If all is good, apply your choice of thread locker on the hex nut and screws to prohibit movement.

Again -- I'm doing this from memory, I don't have a rifle in front of me. It's a pretty simple process once you've done a few.

JGRaider, I often have the same question of Remington 700s. Why do folks keep buying them for the action only, then replace every thing including the trigger and bolt handle? Thirty years ago, we just bought a 700, scoped it and shot little bitty groups. Not so much true anymore. Jack

Edit, this also is not intended to flame the product. It seems to me that corporate goals center on profit, and profits are tied to shoddy assembly. It may actually be an economic advantage for the buyer to fine tune things. Not everyone can do that work is the problem. JT

Tag

I was about to ask about a trigger, but I see you just covered it.

Thanks

Dave

Thanks for taking the time. Now all I need to do is find a Montana.

Pretty simple answer. There are very few production rifles that meld ergos, barrel length, twist, and throat geometry that matches box constraints. Kimber is one of the few, but only in a couple of calibers, others still need tweaking. The Remington 700 is relatively cheap and has more replacement parts, triggers, stocks available than anything else. Pretty much every rifle rem makes can be taken off the shelf and shoots plenty good for 99% of shooters/hunters needs. A lot of the people around here are in that 1% that have wants/needs for better.

Boxer�that trigger I just adjusted was on the new .223AI with the 1 in 8 twist�.

But Ive been keeping that from you�'fraid you might try to copy me��..


Preliminary range sessions indicate it might kill schitt�..

If you are new at guns, and lack experience to do internal minor repairs and parts replacement... this may not be for you. Do not do the following unless you are skilled enough to work on guns, and responsible enough to handle them safely. I'm presenting this information as "Information Only"... it is SOLELY your decision whether you have the skill and ability to use this information.

If you have an accident, it means that you weren't skilled enough, or responsible enough, so you shouldn't have done the following, so it's not my fault!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now on to the details
The Remington triggers are very good, except they come with a built in lawyer, and he weighs about 9 or 10 pounds.

You will need a bit of good quality gun oil (CLP or equivalent), and a set of small screwdrivers, and some white or red nail polish.

Remove the barreled action from the stock.

Looking at the gun and trigger so the safety is up, and the barrel is pointing to your right... the front of the trigger is to your right...


The three screws are as follows...

On your right, (the front of the trigger) the top screw, near the action, is over travel...
The bottom screw is spring tension...
On your left side, (the back of the trigger) is the engagement screw.

First, break the white "Seals of God" and screw the three screws out enough so that you see several threads.

They may be hard at first, but they are NOT staked in place. The screws and trigger body are carbon steel, and may be rusted, or they may have a sealant on them. Just break them free. Drop a teeny bit of oil on the threads. Run the screws in and out several times until the oil is in the threads, and they turn freely.

OK, now down to business.

Back out the spring tension screw out until there is just enough pressure to keep the trigger forward, but it's very light (4 or 5 oz's) and easy to move.

Back out the engagement screw, (the single screw on the left) and the over-travel screw (the upper screw on your right) out, so there's play to adjust.

Close the bolt on a cocked pin (don't pull the trigger) and VERY SLOWLY turn the engagement screw (on your left) in until the firing pin drops. Back it out about 1/3 to 1/2 of a turn. With the firing pin down, you should now feel the trigger wobble back and forth if you pull it because there is excessive over travel.

Because the back surface of the trigger is NOT undercut, you have to adjust over-travel with the pin "down".

Now, with the firing pin in the "fired" position, screw in the over-travel screw until it "just touches" the trigger lightly, preventing the trigger from moving... back out the over travel screw 1/4 turn. Pulling the trigger now, (with the pin "down") you should feel just the "slightest" free movement.

Now turn in the spring tension screw (lower right) to a pull that you like... I'd strongly suggest a good trigger pull gauge, instead of guessing.

Cock the pin and try it... it should break like glass.

Check by:
Slam the bolt closed a dozen times, check to see if the pin dropped each time. If the pin drops, back out the engagement screw 1/4 turn, and do again.
Cock the pin, set the safety, pull the trigger, release the trigger, and release the safety, a dozen times... if the pin drops, increase the spring tension (shouldn't be necessary, unless you're down around 10-15 oz's, and this trigger is not reliable at that light a pull.
Put white or red nail polish on the screws. Let dry, and put another coat on it again, and again.

There will be no "take up slack", this is a single stage trigger, and can't be adjusted to act like a two stage.

These triggers are easily capable of going to 24-26 oz's, and they keep the setting year after year, and I've never had to re-adjust one.

thanks dvdegeorge, this is great info

'smoker,

You's gonna have dumbfhukks cooking schit off.(grin)

THAT is mean.










'402,

Thirty years ago,I bedded everything,tweaked triggers,kissed,found pressure and rocked on. Hint.

I'd MUCH rather do that myself,than get charged for 82 Trick Moves of Snake Oil.

Re-hint.










'87,

I may have a 700.










'gwe,

I've no interest in Wildcats,because if they were that "good" the factory would chamber for them. Same goes twist rates. Do you REALLY "think" that after nearly 100yrs,they don't recognize how exceptional a 1-14" .224" twist rate is,for velocity increases alone?!?

Sir,you are chasing your tail.

Now you have to shoot to make brass and your bullets that don't fly apart,will go too slow.










'george,

You's as mean as SAS.

Sorta like danglin' instructions on how to lick a light socket.(grin)

Kimbers don't shoot,due to their light barrels...EVERYONE knows that.

Boxer: Sir, respectfully. I'm not completely sure you know whereof you speak. My new .223AI wildcat with the 1 in 8 twist shoots bullets so fast you can't even see them. Its either that or the faster spin that makes them invisible to the naked eye.
You will never convince me that my shooting 'platform' and complete 'system' isn't working�

sheesh�.

One of these days, I'm going to follow 'Stick's tutorial and modify the action of a 223 Montana to accept longer COAL....

....I've asked him several things in the past, but I'll refrain from painting advice.

Dude, my new rifle ( the wildcat 223AI) with the 8 twist benchmark barrel is rapidly climbing to the top of the "favorite rifle" charts! Thanks again!

They do make a good barrel!

You're not going to paint it Zebra-like are you?

Not unless you give me the tutorial on painting�.

I'm no help there, but send it to KY and I'll give it a try!

Thanks butttt��..


Its already got a 'money shot' paint job

boxer/stic can show you how to break that barrel in too. Just sayin

Good post buddy...

Nice write up. Thanks for taking the time to do so.

I've made the same magazine and action screw mods to my Kimbers. Haven't messed with the bedding as it has appeared to be OK so far. I did notice the rubbing on the shank and forward of the mag well on the stock and action on my 84L in 30-06. Think I'll go back and check the rear lug bedding.

Very good thread.

Where do you find the tape you are using for masking off the stock? It looks like it cuts much cleaner than the blue painter's tape of basic masking tape I've used.

I also want to thank you. I read this thread many times before purchasing my Montana. After I purchased it, I checked it over for any potential problems. You saved me a lot of time to go directly to the source of potential issues. Thankfully everything looks good and the rifle is shooting great but I was fully prepared to jump right in on these fixes. This should be a sticky.

Just wanted to bump this thread and say 'Thanks'! I have a Kimber that had a mag box problem took it out and started to dremel away. Out of fear of taking off too much (is that possible, we wan it to "float" right?) I stopped after grinding off a little.

Have noticed that there is play in the front of the mag box when I put the rifle back together, but no play in the back of the mag box.

I believe I still need to remove some metal in the back to gain some play. All we want is the mag box to sit in there and hold the cartridges, not be pressing on the action, correct?

When I bolt it all together, and I press the spring/follower up and down, I should see my mag box move around some too? Not be solid, "stuck" from the pressure of the action.

That is correct. You don't want it binding. Even a tad of jiggle is fine.

Leave the spring/follower out and reassemble. That makes it easier to detect small amounts of movement.

Thanks. I have some jiggle in front of mag box, but nothing in back. Need more metal off the back I think. Should I be looking for an equal distance of gap all the way across top of mag box from bottom of action?

Thanks!

The mag box sits in the action. Removing a tad from the bottom shouldn't leave space at the top? Maybe I misunderstood the question.

Just shave a little off the bottom rear and you'll be fine....

shortactionsmoker- thanks for taking the time to make this post. Lots of good info spelled out with clear pictures.

Let me try and clarify. Taking some off the bottom legs should give play up and down on the mag box. So with the spring out, I should be able to place a finger in the mag box and freely move it (even if just a little) up and down in the mag well.

When down, seeing a gap between top frame of mag box and bottom of action. Yes?

Whether you see a gap or not makes no difference... What you want is movement in the mag box to be sure it's not binding when stock is tightened to bottom metal/magazine..

TAG

tag

Nice

Great thread

Extremely helpful.

Must pull mine apart when i get home

Cheers, Chris

Tag

Tag

You can trim all the exposed bedding by waiting about 60 minutes after assembly. Touch the excess with your index finger. If the epoxy does not adhere to it take a sharpened flat point chopstick and put a little gun oil on the tip. Lay it flat on the stock and up against the metal. Then just shave off the flexible epoxy. Leaves a perfectly flat and finished edge to the bedding.

Use a metal file or somesuch on the over runs in the magazine or tang mortise.

Done.

Same as on the Remington if not mistaken keep turning the rear screw clockwise until the sear drops and then back up so the gun is safe and the creep is gone.

SAS ..this is about as quality a post as has been posted here in sometime. Thank You for taking the time.

What's with the tag bleep?

For those of us not able to remember where we saw this information...

Tag

Easier to add it to your watched lists...

Where's the link to adjusting the firing pin depth on the Kimbers?

Search posts from Brad. That thread had some useful info. In fact, I read on here just the other day about someone having light primer strikes with their Kimber. I'd bet money the set screw had backed out.

The link is below...

The firing pin spring in my Kimber could use more oomph. The protrusion is plenty and the set screw is not loose.

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/8454332/1

I've been through the threads on protrusion and the set screw. These things check out on my rifle. The spring is wimpy.

I haven't tried a Wolff spring because I've read of fit issues w.r.t. the diameter of the spring.

I'd call Kimber and get a new spring. None of later rifles I've owned shared this issue. I did see it in a couple of my earlier Kimbers (sub 20,000 serial number).

Have you tried contacting them?

I haven't gone to them yet, probably should.

I got a new firing pin spring from Kimber. It cost about $14 and solved my light primer strike issue. After ordering it I saw somebody posted here about the Wolf spring which was cheaper but the 1 from Kimber solved the problem so I'm happy.

Lots of great info here. I'm looking at buying a Montana tomorrow.

Bob

TAG

Tag

Purty good Tinker,this evening.

Granting an OEM punchout 223AI Montucky some breathing room,to kiss 75'Max in formed cases. Issued COAL is right at trite and a kiss of same is 2.460"...so it were a snap to grant her 2.515" as padding,which was a .300" increase.

I like to shorten the bolt stop and flare the 'port. OEM follower comes out,700 goes in.



Total shim removal and quickaloo fab of a new one,that ain't EVER gonna [bleep] budge.




No thang to toss some wiggle room in the handle,so as to let 'er digest 5 rounds in the belly,with a 6th in the pipe...if only to ascertain feed/function.



The 6x MD Fixed [bleep] got peeled,for a 6x MQ version of same. A smorgasbord of worst case scenario fodder was rattled through the bitch,trying to make 'er bobble,with different boolit profiles,COAL,SB sized cases,SAAMI cases and Fullhouse formed case and she refused to slow the [bleep] down.



Can see where such things would grow on a gent.(grin)

You just swapping the Rem follower on the Ackley?

Bumped for those looking for it...



X-VERMINATOR

Anyone have a Montana that shoots just fine out of the box?
Seems like for $1200, it should have all the bugs worked out.

No problems EVER, getting my Ruger Hawkeyes and MK11's to shoot......
........at half the price of a Kimber

oh boy.......

Yea............No one ever does anything to any rifles except Kimber. You had better alert Brownells that they are wasting their time.

He isn't say that no other guns get modified or tinkered with, simply that for $1200 you shouldn't have to mess with it for it to be accurate.

Tikka's don't either, but then again I don't know of many off the rack rifles with a 24oz Kevlar stock either.

My 257 roberts was perfect out of the box and shoots sub MOA with the first handload I tried. My 270 needed a little tinkering and I still wouldn't trade it for any Ruger ever made and I've had a bunch.

Here's the best my latest .223 can do. Multiple loads have been tried and every trick ever suggested for making a Montana shoot has been checked off the list. The two in the black are the first two followed by the three in the orange. Seems to be a barrel heat issue, considering removing the bedding from under the shank, any thoughts?

Man my 223 shoots about the same. Looking to hear suggestions before I go re-barrel...

Maybe needs a little tip pressure. Fold up some tinfoil and see wtf. There was a fella on as real as it gets that floated to the lug and it seemed to help. It helped on my 6x45.

Or sell it for a Ruger........

For the price diff I'd get 3-4 Rugers, one of 'em would be bound to shoot...........

5 minute epoxy putty makes for a quick pressure point too. Don't forget the release agent or wedge the barrel in the stock. And don't phuqq around cause 5 minutes is more like 2.

Mine:

http://i.imgur.com/zarXf6r.jpg

I know man. I was just being a smart a$$.
What you have to think about is what your $1200 is buying you. If ultimate accuracy is your goal you are barking up the wrong tree anyway since a 6 lb rifle doesn't lend itself to accuracy to begin with.

What you are buying is the smallest stainless action in the industry and the best factory light weight stock. If you want a similar light weight rifle that is guaranteed to shoot sub MOA, there are some custom shops that can build it but you are going to spend several times the amount of money.

For $1200 you are buying a the lightest factory rifle that will most likely shoot excellent or at least acceptable. Some may require some tinkering to squeeze out every bit of accuracy, just like every other rifle ever made. If you are looking for perfection in every aspect in the Montana or any other rifle, you will always be dissapointed.

Y'alls groups is both lookin like the big dipper.. Need experts from SlimShady's post to figure this one out

I just bedded mine on Friday and it does the same thing if I don't hold it just right or if I let it recoil in the bags differently. I re did the tang last night because I noticed it would suck down a tiny bit when I tightened the rear screw. These are what my groups looked like yesterday.

I shot the first 5 in about two minutes.


Decided I had 6 left why not shoot a ten shot group. First shot the rifle twisted in the bags and went high and left. I figured I screwed the pooch and made it an eleven shot group. Last six in about two maybe three minutes. She's talking.

Man, that looks like it wants to shoot. What all has been done?

Pretty happy with my Montana. Just put three down range real quick (<1 min) the other day at the NRA range (truth in advertising, only 50 yds) just to see where it was shooting. Needs a few click up I think. 210 Partitions.

Edit: I've bedded it, put some Tubbs Final Finish through it, and UBC'd it. But I do that to all my rifles before I ever shoot them for groups.

Tag.

Looks like you have yours sorted out. The top old group is about how my 7-08 shoots with factory ammo. I'm still getting my reloading kit set up though so I have both factory ammo and possible needing a bedding job working against me right now.

My intentions are to start loading for it and make sure it isn't an ammo issue and then bed it.

Odd...

tag for Geej

Reno

Thanks! Some very helpful info here.

^

Oh great and mighty Kimber Montana experts, lend me your years (eyes) for a moment if you would!

I have a puzzling problem and I could use some input.

(warning, long post...long and short, this Montana shot great and then all of the sudden started shooting horrible and there was no changes to instigate the change between when it shot great and bad. Standard checks of known issues and obvious problems...including me as the shooter...result in no smoking gun...if you think you might have an idea, read on for the full story!)

I have a Montana 8400 in .338WM. Got it off the buy/sell board here over 1.5 years ago. Topped it with a brand new Burris E1 3-9x50 scope on high Warne mounts. Scope and mounts weren't my first choice but what I had available at the time and I was itching to get out to the range to see if I had got a good one or one of the Montana's folks complain about.

My first range session I was very pleased with the rifle. Two three-shot groups yielded 1MOA or better at 100 yds with handholds, but felt with some practice and load development could easily improve that figure. Shot it only once or twice more that year before hunting (which was a bust) and then didn't shoot again until a week ago or so. The rifle was stored indoors in a safe for the almost year that it didn't shoot.

Last week I loaded up the same "mix" from before which had shown around 1MOA at 100yds but this time I could NOT get it to shoot consistently. First two shots were low and to the right but very tight-3rd shot was about 3" away further to the right. Made an adjustment and was 5" high of the bulls eye but dead on (so about 8" higher than first group, but I had made a one inch vertical correction to the scope). Subsequent shots were all over the place. I thought maybe the scope was a little sticky for some reason and went back to original settings. Bottom line at 100yds it was all over the place. I was shooting from a very good lead sled and paying attention to trigger discipline. 200yd resulted is holes all over the paper (no further adjustments to the scope...just trying to figure out where it was shooting) and attempts and further ranges of course were futile. While I can generally get good accuracy in various rifles I shoot, I thought maybe I indeed was pulling some. Also my first inclination was that I had a defective scope as a friends rifle exhibited the exact same behavior when his scope went bad.
The following steps were taken. Checked torque of rings and bases (I use a calibrated torque wrench). Replacement of scope with a known good Leopold VX-II 4-12x40 and reloaded again making extra sure we were loading consistently. (Measured powder each time, check bullet concentricity, etc). Then I sent the rifle out with my friend who is a very good shot to try and eliminate me as part of the problem (Plus, I couldn't go to the range that day).
Results were as bad or worse then before. Again, was shot from a lead sled with a shooter that routinely shoots long range with his various rifles (hunting and bench rifles). At 100yds shots were over 5" apart and at 200yds he couldn't even paper it!?! He tried all the tricks, said he'd never experienced such a thing.

After searching for answers, I came across this thread (and others) and hoped I had found the answer. Though I haven't read anyone having a good shooter and then having it go bad all of the sudden.
Tonight, I checked all the problem spots mentioned. My findings are: The mag box is NOT binding at all. The barrel is free floated and not touching the stock. The action does not appear to be moving as shown in this thread at all. All the screws (action and scope bases mount) are of proper size and NOT touching/bottoming out on the barrel. The front action screw was torqued at around 45 in/lb and the rear screw was at about 55 in/lb. So not under or over torqued, though not identical (and of course checking torque to find where it's at is not quite as precise). The scope bases were not loose nor were the rings. Also the crown seems just fine and no obvious issues in the bore. Looking down the bore the barrel seems as strait as can be. I'm a bit at a loss. I could bed the action, but I don't feel that is the issue....Once I get it shooting good again, I will most likely bed the action to try and make it even better but I don't want to go there at this point as there seems to be another issue at play here.
The Warne bases I got from my local smith were not the part no. for the Kimber Montana but the smith said they were the exact height and contour and proper screw spacing. He milled the screw holes to accept screws appropriate to the kimber. The base is in fine shape and the screw holes have very tight tolerances, I don't think there is anything moving there, though the thickness difference between front and rear seems to be about .131" whereas I believe the measurements listed for the Talley LW rings shows a .125 difference. I doubt this is the cause but I have some Talley LW rings FOR the 8400 and will mount the scope with those for the next test to to eliminate one more issue (plus I prefer the Talley anyway). I also noticed one of the shells I had shot was was prepping for re-loading seem to have a burned area around the primer. I don't think it was overloaded as the primer wasn't bulging or anything, my thinking is that the primer pocket might not have been fully clean and when it seated it didn't get a good seal. The bolt face has a very small divot it looks like corresponding to the burn mark on the case head. However, I do not see how this could affect accuracy as it is not changing any dimensions as far as holding headspace and keeping the case square, but I mention it anyway as I'm grasping at straws here.
I put the rifle back together torquing the action screws to 45 in/lb. Chambered a shell to make sure there was no play in the bolt...everything is/was tight. When the rings arrive in the next couple days, I will probably throw a few more rounds down range on the off chance the rings/bases somehow were the issue or the mismatched action torque. I will try shooting with bags under the mag box rather than the fore end as some have suggested and see what happens.

I didn't mean to write a book, but I figure better to have all the information up front. I do have pics I took while the action was out and would be happy to email them if someone would like to take a look. I would love to hear your thoughts if this is something that rings a bell or you have experience with.

Thank you for your time.
Geej

No expert but I'll guess. I can only see it being one of two things assuming your ammo is good.

1. Maybe it wasn't shooting as good as you thought at first. Did you shoot enough to confirm it was shooting good, or did you possibly luck a group together.

2. Your Lead Sled combined with a light weight 338WM has destroyed yet another scope. Lead Sleds have been known to destroy scopes fast with heavy kickers when enough weight is used to immobilize the rifle.

Now those suggestions are based on good ammo and assuming your barrel isn't slicked over with copper.

Exactly what R H Clark said.

I was worried until I saw Lead Sled.

Thanks for the ideas.
1. No, I shot it enough to know those two groups weren't simply luck. Inonlynmention those two groups as I found what I wrote the seller after testing. All my groups weren't .75MOA as one of them were but none of them were as bad as what I'm getting now. Up till last week, I probably shout about 40 rds through it.

2. Explain more please about the lead sled issue. I wouldn't say we had a ton of weight on it, probably 10 lbs worth. When I said good sled I meant it wasn't flimzy and had good adjustments. If that could actually be a problem we can try next shots off bags. We were shooting a 300wm along with mine in the sled and like I said we switched scopes but I'm all ears.

The recoil energy has to go somewhere. When shooting off your shoulder your body takes the energy. When shooting off a lead sled the energy is stopped from going back and transfers to your scope.

The Lead Sled, particularly when a lot of weight is used and with heavy kickers, has been known to destroy scopes. No movement of the rifle equals all the force being absorbed by the scope. In other words, when a rifle recoils against your shoulder, you act as a shock absorber. Less shock absorber equals more stress on the rifle and everything on it.

You can take the second scope off and test it on another rifle to be sure, but give it a good test with several rounds and by dialing the square. Even if it's broken, a few rounds may go in the right place.

If it's not your scope, ammo, or barrel clogged with copper, check the gun and stock itself very well. Look at the bolt face. Look at the locking lugs. Look around inside the chamber. Check the action screws and make sure your stock isn't cracked at the screws or the tang.

Only two things I can think of would be:

1. Your barrel is a copper mine

2. Your rings were not pushed forward against the base when mounted. Just like picatinny stuff, Warne rings must be pushed forward against the slot to keep them from slipping under recoil.

X-VERMINATOR

Thank you for the input.

I did press forward on the rings when I installed them, so that shouldn't have been the issue. Again, those are being replaced so should be moot next time it's shot anyway.

Very close inspection of the stock revealed no issues that I could find. No cracks or distortions, etc. Action screws were not over or under tight and have now been torqued to 45 in/lb as stated above.
Aside from the very small burn in the bolt face I mentioned in my "book", the face looks square, the lugs look good, the chamber looks fine and bolt lockup with a round in the chamber is solid and as it should be.

I really don't think the barrel is all fouled up. It was clean before initial shooting last week, but at this point it's worth double checking and cleaning again. I would think you would have to have put a fair amount of rounds down range without cleaning (or with bad cleaning) to get the amount of copper to cause problems and I don't think this rifle has all that many rounds through it, but I could be wrong.

I do think that this is the first time it's been shot (by me) on a lead sled. I've only been shooting 200 and 185gr bullets through it and it's not like we have the rifle immobilized with a ton of weight in the sled...but I suppose I could be underestimating it. A little hard to believe that in only a few shots two scopes would have been damaged so bad as to cause such issues. But, again, will try it off bags next time.

Lead Sled is a problem for sure. Whether it is all of the problem or not remains to be seen. Throw that thing in the trash.

I'm thinking if your running a lead sled, you may want to look at a smaller cartridge.

Wow, you guys really hate sleds!

I don't use one much, in this case I wanted to try some longer range work and was looking for data first and then try various positions after I knew what the Gun would do. My friend has used this sled on some truly large caliber guns for years with no issues but non-the less, will try it next time off a bipod or bags to eliminate the sled.

"will try it next time off a bipod or bags to eliminate the sled."

The sled is only a problem if has caused damage to the scope or rifle. It's not like it won't shoot because of the sled but it will shoot when shooting off bags.The sled has either caused damage which is your problem or your problem is something else.

Understood.
I will add when I removed the rear scope base, there was some gunk underneath that looked like dried oil. A friend mentioned that he felt if the base was indeed the correct profile, there shouldn't have been enough space for oil or anything else to get underneath and he wondered if there was an imperceptible amount of rocking on the base. I know when installed, the action and bases were clean. Could be nothing.
Will also take another look at the bore and give an extra good clean in case there is more copper in there than I think. The bullets I was shooting here AccuBonds and TSX's.

You are using a copper dissolving compound to clean? Double check the crown make sure it won't snag on a cotton swab. Just trying to think of everything.

If you're reloading try a few factory rounds just to make sure something hasn't gone wrong there.

R H, Thanks for all the input, I appreciate it.

I would have to look at my cleaning kit to see what the solution is, but will probably use a bore-shine or similar solvent to clean the barrel before the next go. Pretty sure I haven't had issues with the crown snagging but good to double check.

I have yet to shoot factory ammo out of this rifle. Could try that, though the reloading procedures used have been pretty meticulous. 300wm loads were loaded for a different rifle about the same time using the same process (same powder measure, press, checking runout, etc). We've loaded two different times with the same bad results...I don't *think* it's in the hand loading procedure.
Not saying you're wrong, just clarifying where I'm coming from.

Please don't throw my lead sled in the trash Geej. I think these guys are full of it. I have been shooting off that sled for years and have never had a scope have a problem. Plus the tables were icy and the thing wasn't bolted to the table.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...s/6822003/all/Okay_then_a_Lead_Sled_Poll

I understand. It's not likely ammo related if you are using the same load that it was shooting and everything is correct but I was just trying to eliminate all variables. This one is a puzzler.

The Lead sled may not be causing any problems but they have in the past with heavy kickers. Again, just trying to cover all the guesses.

Don't worry Stephen, I won't throw your sled away. Please don't throw my rifle away either.

RH, Thanks again.

For now I think my course of action is to double check/clean the bore, install scope in new bases making sure the front screw isn't touching the barrel threads and try once more.

The factory ammo is an excellent idea. Remove yet one more variable..

Easy to over-estimate the rig and under-estimate the ammo...

ttt

Really appreciate the info here. Thanks much for posting it.

Thanks
Jim

Tag, and thanks

Pulled this oldie up today and referenced it yet again. This is my 4th Montana that I've purchased new. They all needed these "tweeks". Thanks again SAS!

Of all the Montana's I've had, none required the magazine box to be altered. None.

8400's don't need the front base screw to be altered, only the 84L/M's "require" it. I've only done it on a couple out of the many 84's I've had, yet all of them would shoot something sub moa. Still, it's a good idea as a matter of course.

IMO, bedding the full receiver and shank (or at least the forward receiver/shank), and tuning the trigger to a light (sub 3lb) pull are the very best "fixes" for the Kimber.

Patient persistence at the loading bench, and good bench technique are equally, if not more, important.

Brad this 84 M needed the mag box tweeked something fierce. It never had a round through it yet outside the factory but the paint was already scratched up pretty good from the mag box binding. It was binding so bad that it would not budge until I removed the necessary material(.05").
The front base screw on the Talley was too long as well. My front action screw needed nothing. A simple lipstick test proved it was not bottoming out. As an interesting side note...both the front action screw and rear guard screw were extremely loose from the factory. They were barely more than snug...certainly less than factory spec.

Tag

ttt

thanks for this information...tag

ttt

tag

SAS,

Stumbled onto your link and am glad that I did so....also took advice of Clint Smith to shoot ten shots to look at dispersion--no more three shot groups that cannot be reproduced day-in, day-out. I feel like I learned a lot...

Started with a Kimber that was shooting so poorly that I was tempted to pound it in the ground for use as a fence post! This Kimber in .308 was rebarreled (for cheap) and still couldn't get it to shoot as consistently as I would have liked. Well enough but not great. Performed the magazine mod, got a FAT wrench, did an Acraglass bedding job (looks like crap), and torqued the action down to 65in/lbs. Had to take it apart and squeeze the mag lips together as the bullets would pop up through the mag when three or more cartridges were loaded.

I'm shooting 168gr Berger Classic Hunters, 43.0gr IMR 8208 XBR. COAL: 2.834", CBTO is determined (for me) by placing a loaded cartridge into my redding die and measuring cartridge base to top of the die: 4.075". My 100-yard, twenty shot dispersion was 2.3" laterally and 1.2" vertically. After forty-five minutes of cool down my next five shot group was 0.47" lateral dispersion and 0.37" vertical dispersion. Four shots in same hole and after verifying that there were really four shots in same hole I lost my concentration a tiny bit maybe...could NOT believe what I was doing.

My observation is that after five shots the barrel was pretty darn hot! I believe that my group widened secondary to the heat mirage distorting the sights so much that I had trouble centering the sights in a repeatable fashion. I am heading out today to shoot another five shots at the last target to see if the sum stays tight or opens up.
Another possible confounding factor is that I was shooting a 338-378 Wby beforehand and the blast is enough that I start to flinch a bit after 4-5 shots...
I think that my loading is consistent, my practice is pretty good, the bench setting was good and the weather was really good.
The 10-shot, 200yard results were 3.0" lateral, 2.3" vertical. First four in same hole.
The 10-shot, 300yard results were 4.1" lateral, 3.2" vertical. First four were sub 1" in both dimensions. Again, beyond anything that I have ever done before with any rifle.
Thank you all again for a free lesson. Will try to remember to post again.

Bob

You don't have to shoot the ten shot dispersion tests at a pace that overheats the barrel.

Mathman,

Yah, well, I'm a slow-learner...This afternoon I just shot three at a time, waited, then shot three more.

Today's range-testing was no different. Still shooting quite well (<1" at 100yds). It does seem as though most of my non-one-holers are just me flinching. Any shots that feel good upon pressing the trigger are likely to be touching one another. Can't believe that a bedding job, mag mod, and precisely torquing the screws could make such a dramatic difference! Haven't tried any other loads, though, so I don't know if this rifle will shoot all loads the same or not. In any case here is another load to try for those that are having Kimber "issues"--trust me, I've been there and wanted to turn that Kimber into a boat anchor, a fence post, or just chop it in two...Now? I'm not sure that I'm ever going to take this rifle apart unless there is a highly compelling reason. Things are going too well to mess with success!

45 in/lbs on the action screws is more than enough and what I use. 65 sounds pretty tight IMO

This. 45 works for me too.

TTT

Tag

A little tinkering maybe in my future with a long white box enroute that says 84L on it.............

In the name of loonyism I recently re-bedded my 243 and 270 MT's.

The 243 is still curing but I shot the 270 early Sunday morning before the breeze came up and it planted 5 shots into in nice round 1.5" group at 210 yards.

Bedded the tang, the lug and 1" forward. Re-read instructions on this thread and (carefully)dremeled out the bottom of the lug post-bedding.

I hadn't done that before and am pretty sure it was causing random flyers every 8-10 shots. Always blamed the wind or barrel heat but I think the lugs were bottoming out and the action was shifting a little in the stock.

Put me in the slow learner camp.

A gentleman by the name of Jordan Smith on here has a Kimber Montana 7-08 that was shooting wildly. He had a thread showing that he removed the bedding under the shank which free floated the barrel back to the receiver/lug. This caused him to shoot very well on his next trip out with the same handloads.

I recently did the same on my Kimber Montana 223 that wont shoot heavier bullets as well as I'd like it to. Will report back my results. The next step is to dremel out the bottom of the lug but want to try it as is first.

Best

tag

Just checked, all my Rugers are still driving tacks, with absolutely NO "tinkering"

I chuckle every time this thread pops up.

my rugers all need trigger tweaks or triggers replaced.

my Rugers are also 2# heavier than my Kimbers.

I chuckle every time posts like yours pop up...

"Tinkered" with my wife's 243 this weekend.

My tinkering consisted of shooting various factory ammo to try and hone in on bullet weight and type it likes.

Getting nice 100 yard groups with 95 gr. Hoping to get some 90 grains because I think they will do better.

I did notice whether it was a bit of heat or a clean barrel, first shot or 2 is high and left of the main group similar what some on here are showing.

I need to followup and see which it is, clean bore or cold barrel.

I finished off with about 5 quick field shots at 300 yard plates. Pretty nice when ringing steel with a basic fixed 6 from kneeling and sitting.

Well said Toad. I've got several M77 Rugers that are tack drivers and I like them a lot. All have had a trigger job and other tinkering to get them to where they are now. But as much as I like my Rugers, my Montana would be the last to leave.

And another thing........anyone who doesn't tinker with their rifles (and handguns) is not a true Loony.

I've owned one Ruger. It had to go back to the factory as it would not chamber rounds from the mag. It also responded well to a lighter trigger, bedding, etc., and turned into a nice rifle.
My one Kimber required nothing. But I still bedded it, adjusted the trigger down and so on. I like tinkering so it doesn't bother me. Sending the other rifle back bothered me.

TTT, Needs sticky!

My experience with the lug and its bottoming out is that it doesn't. Putting a small piece of putty in the bottom of the lug recess showed that there is no bottoming out. There was about 1/8" gap between the bottom of the lug and the lug recess.

I've only owned a single Ruger that didn't need work to get it to shoot. That is my 77 Magnum in 375 H&H. Every other 77/Hawkeye needs something, and in most cases, more than one something.

Same with the 15 or so Kimber Montanas I have owned. Not a one of them was tinkered with, other than my trigger weight preference, and all were and are tack drivers.

People hollering about how accurate their Ruger's are is making me chuckle.

Had 5 of them and they were consistently behind Brownings, Sakos and even most poorly assembled, early 90's model 700's as far as accuracy was concerned.

Not a bad rifle, accurate enough and I'm certainly not knocking them, but they're down the list when discussing accurate factory rifles.

Very dependable though.

Chuckle away.

M77 Hawkeye, 280 Rem: MOA
(another) M77 Hawkeye, 280 Rem: MOA
M77 Hawkeye, 35 Whelen: sub MOA
M77 MK11, 350 Rem Mag: MOA
M77 Hawkeye Compact: 1.5 in @100 yards.
All straight out of the box, factory ammo.
I must be one lucky SOB to get such consistent results throughout the years.

Hawkeye compact is 243 Win

I'd say you were.

xxx

tag

tag

Same with the 15 or so Kimber Montanas I have owned. Not a one of them was tinkered with, other than my trigger weight preference, and all were and are tack drivers. [/quote]


Did you shoot the rifle I bought from you? It has been far from from a tack driver for me..

Tag

Just so we have them all in one place:

SamO's mag swap

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth.../1/Kimber_84L_mag_spring_swap-out#UNREAD

Brad's preflight

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...0774365/1/Kimber_Montana_Bedding_And_Pre

Brad's instructions on the set screw

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/8156849/1

BINGO!!!!

Great info in this thread. Have a 280 Ackley and a 7-08 I need to check

Most of the new ones I've seen don't share the same issues as the older Montana's. In fact, the mag boxes on the first few I checked had been ground down at the factory. There was no finish on the bottom of the protrusions. The metal was shiny silver and you could see they'd been ground a bit.

I still think the binding mag box was the biggest issue with these rifles.

Good to know. I picked up the 7-08 just the other day but my 280AI is over a year old so I'll check it first

I appreciate it!

Hunt,
I bought a new 7mm-08 last June and as SAS said, it didn't require much tinkering. The mag box was ground down at the factory so it didn't bind, and the front action screw was the right length. All I did was adjust the trigger slightly and had the action bedded (I did replace the aluminum painted trigger guard with an old-style stainless). I couldn't be happier with mine.

Good to hear! I will report back with what I find on mine

Tag

I recently bought a .257Rob from SAS and started developing loads for an upcoming antelope hunt. Not having any luck I pulled it apart to check mag box restriction action screw ect. and the stock seems to be cracked from the rear pillar to the trigger recess. Rear screw was really tight and the front was pretty snug but not tight as the rear. [img:center][/img] [img:center][/img]

I'll bet Kimber will take care of that stock.

Jlimbo,

You bought it new from the shop. I'll be happy to help you with Kimber. Send me a PM and we'll get it going from there. I'll need some info.

Darrik

Customer service par excellence!

g

tag

tag

Yup, great to read that CS is alive an well in a few places.

Tag

Here it is. Check, check. check, oops, forgot to clean out below the lug...

tag

I recently opened up a well used and abused 338 federal montana and the top of the mag box where it hit the reciever seemed to have a "lip" that prevented it from seating in the receiver properly, I crunched it down in a vise and all is well. is this little lip normal? or a design feature? or dud a small piece get sheared off by the previous owner doing lord knows what ungodly thing (this gun has been abused, but it's perfect for a project)

TAG

I've recently purchased a MA in 280AI. I've experienced some feeding issues during load dev which seems to be a common occurrence but seems to be an easy fix (I hope).

My main challenge is that I cannot zero the rifle. I've mounted a Swarovski z6 in the Talley rings and getting great sub-MOA groups but run out of windage (2" right). I've remounted the scope, re-checked torque, cant, etc and also tried a different scope and get the same problem.

Has anyone else experienced this problem? Misaligned screws? User error?

Any suggestions would be great

PM sent to address problem.

Old thread, current helpful information

Tag

Tag while on top

Tag

I don't know if you'll see this response as it has been 4 years; but, I never saw your post until today. I went back and checked my records and notes. That particular rifle shot exactly three boxes of factory Nosler ammo and was right at an inch for the rounds that were shot on paper. It successfully, and accurately, hit, one gallon water/milk jugs filled with water out to 300 yards. So, 100 yard paper targets were at 1 inch and, as common sense dictates, unable to be measured on exploded water jugs at varying ranges randomly placed between 150 yards and 300 yards.

Thanks for bringing this thread back to the top, I have been looking for it with no luck. I am looking at getting another Kimbe, and wanted to ensure I could fix any issues as suggested in this thread. Although, I suspect that Kimber themselves have made these same improvements, hence the accuracy guarantee that they now offer.

I have two kimbers, a 308 and a 22 rimfire. I am lucky, both have given me no trouble. I have had the 308 for over 10 years, the longest I have kept a gun.

Tag (again)

Tag

Tag

This is a 4 year old thread but the content is still applicable. That front base screw problem could have been a design flaw in the Talley's allowing the screw to go too deeply into the base. I have recently mounted Tallley LW's on 2 Kimber Montanas and the front screw worked just fine. Not shortened and didn't touch.

Anybody got a spare mag box for a model 70 in case I totally fubar this?

Tag

tag

Can anyone recommend a torque setting for Tally lightweight rings, bases to action, on the Montana (84M)?

The lightweights I just got say 17-20 pound inches but suggest you refer to gun manufacturers specs. Mike

I think those numbers are for the tops of the rings to the bases. I'm looking for bases to action. The screws are slightly larger and threading into steel so I'm thinking they would recommend a bit more torque. But anyway good suggestion--maybe there are some specs in the owners manual, hadn't thought of that.

How do you tag a post and recall it ?

Thanks
Hal

Tag, go to your forum posts and it should be in the list.

It's much easier to follow a thread. At the top of each thread page next to Hop To is a flag button. Click that to follow the thread. Then you can click on your name in the upper right part of the screen and go to your followed lists. Seems easier to me than wading through all posts.

Muskrat and whitetail thanks for the help.

Hal

Tagged

What thread is the front action screw on the 84m?

Going to do the fixes on my Montana .223 tomorrow. The box binds as SAS shows, the front action screw is too long and it needs bedding. Will check the front screw on the NF rail tomorrow.

Was new to me last year, little work, and not been happy with it at the range.