Locally I can pick up a vanguard 2 synthetic or mark v synthetic, both in 300 wby for $499. Which is the better gun at same price point?
Both are 24" barrel.
Thanks

Mk V, no question. Get it.

Wow...THAT is funny!

2-lugs trump 9...................(hint)

Another vote for the Vanguard.

Mark V.

You could flip the MkV and make a few bob, in this part of the world anyway.

Use the proceeds to buy a decent rifle, Vanguard, and pocket the rest!

This part of the world as well, that fact seems to be lost on a few.

I would say that depends on you and your plans for the rifle.

If by even money you're talking $900 plus, I'd get the Mark V. You can sell the Mark V and get your investment back. Not so if you spend $900 on the Vanguard

If you're wanting pride of ownership (fluff according to some) go for the Mark IV.

If you're talking $600 I'd say get the Mark V cause you can use it and then sell it and pocket two, three or more Benjamins.

If you're wanting to get "Attaboys" from Big Stick, or worried about 9 lugs get the Vangaurd. LOL

However in the real world, I've found it much easier to sneak up on a vanguard for +/- 5 benjamins than a Mark V.






and with a fair trigger and out of the box accuracy with factory ammo.............



the Vanguards are hard not to like.......
Best,

GWB

Buy the MK-5 then sell it and go buy a Vanguard and a good piece of glass.

sorry, should have read the whole thread.

A Mark V is always worth more than a Vanguard. It's the better buy. I could care less how many locking lugs one has vs. another. I like getting deals. Any of us can get a Vanguard for $500.

The VG is a superior mechanical design.

I'm always happy to let them who do the least,get the "best" deal on a piece of schit.

Funny how it works................

Nine lugs is a "solution" in search of a problem.

A ton of times, I've snapped up the deal on a gun that I didn't really want/like, just because I knew I could roll it into what I did want, and maybe come out ahead on glass, $, etc. I'd keep the VG, but I'd grab that V, roll it into any of several other bolt guns AND glass, or just roll the extra $. The catch is that Vs are often in goofass Roy chamberings, that devalue them for trade/sale. Just know what you're getting, or grab the VG and shoot. Just my worthless nickel.

Not to presume, but if it's for hunting TN, then 300 Weatherby wouldn't turn my head, for either of them.

the "problem" is a 90 degree bolt throw, nine lugs being the proper solution.

I've got a German Mark V, that I'd happily sell for $900. Just sayin.

Does he even give out anything as generous as an "attaboy"?

Does "Congratulations?"count?

Vanguard without a question. Gotta laugh at those that say get the MKV and trip it for more since it will always be worth more. Not to me nor many I know.

This.

PT Barnum always did love PA and TN; you'll have no problem finding a pigeon...

I'd be careful about buying a MkV and trying to flip it for a few extra. I've had 2 Mk Vs and struggled to sell them for what I I should have been able to get for them. I eventually made a few dollars on them, but at that point it became more about unloading the gun and getting my original investment back. Admittedly, the caliber will play into the resale and as you are looking at a 300 bee, you may have better luck than I did.

If you buy the MkV to flip it, do your homework first.

I'd buy the Mark V and keep it. I only wish I could find a Mark V for that money. If it was in .257 I'd be downright jealous.

Yep, pretty much my sentiment too. For me though, no matter how good the deal, it means I'll be dropping another 600 smackers to
to get into a quality, ergo-friendly, non-Weatherby-synthetic stock.

Yeah, it's caught on like wildfire, I hear Remington, Winchester, and Ruger are not far behind.

I'd take the Vanguard.

Remington can't even build a quality 2 lug gun, You can't investment cast a Weatherby action and Winchester won't deviate from the upside down Feeding CRF's...3 lug actions or modified 3X lug actions like the Weatherby are more popular then ever.

Ihave a few of each in my gunsafe, in a fire sale the vanguards would be the first out the door

Never ever had a problem flipping a Mark V and if I ran across a 500 dollar Mark V it would not even be a question of it or a vanguard.

Winchester won't deviate from CRPF? Damn, I'd best unload the push feed model 70 before people get wind it's a counterfeit.

3-lug actions more popular than ever? What, did they capture 2% of the market now? Name a custom rifle builder who uses them.

You know what I mean they are stuck with 2 lug bolts and won't spend money designing anything new except euro trash shotguns

RUger American ...case closed

Re-open the case counselor, I said "custom rifle builder."

Almost forgot to ask, has a 90-degree bolt throw ever been a problem for you? Have you ever missed a shot because of the extra 20-30 degrees you had to throw the bolt?

Cooper,Sako,Weatherby and a few others thrown in are all 3 lug. I don't give a [bleep] about custom rifle builders, none of them use their own actions so it is a moot point.

Yes I can mount 50mm-56mm scopes in low rings on a Tikka, Sako or Weatherby whitetail deer rifle but I have to use medium or high rings on a Remington,Ruger or Winchester. I know since you live out West it is not a problem since the most you use is a 40. .

What does the front end of the scope have to do with it?

Wrong again. But keep going, you're batting a thousand.

The reason I mentioned custom rifle builders is, they have their pick and can use any action they want, including their own. They also need to turn out an accurate, high-quality product or they go out of business. Telling that they all use 2 lugs and sell their rifles for top dollar.

ring height? The ocular on most EUro rifles is larger as well.

10000 Ruger Americans will be sold for every custom rifle ...

But you're talking about clearance from the bolt handle, right?

ring height? The ocular on most EUro scopes is larger as well.

Which has nothing to do with the objective.

I think "ocular" is the "objective" of discourse here....

Exactly. Which has nothing to do with 56mm vs. 40mm mentioned earlier.

You'll need a chalkboard and an abacus to get it through...

But has everything to do with a low lift bolt vs a high lift bolt on a scope with Big Objective and Big Ocular.. Do you now understand?

Even with a smaller ocular and a larger objective you still have more room working the bolt.

I understood a long time ago, having used a variety of scopes and rifles. The objective diameter has nothing to do with bolt lift.

Hey Gator lover GFY

Almost forgot to ask, has a 90-degree bolt throw ever been a problem for you? Have you ever missed a shot because of the extra 20-30 degrees you had to throw the bolt?

THis is what I was answering and why I like short lift bolts

The force is strong with this one....

Like I said before most Quality Euro BIG Objective Scopes have big oculars needing either a higher ring height or a lower bolt lift. You can usually get a more useable sight picture with a lower bolt lift. Contact Talley Rings if you dispute that.

Never had a problem with either type.

STick to what you know which is minimal

Because you never used them , if you had you would have a problem even opening the bolt.

Name rifles and scopes in question?

This is the question I was answering:



You asked about missing a shot because of an extra 30 degrees of bolt lift. I have not missed any shots because of whatever amount of bolt lift was involved at the time.

Now if you're asking have I missed a shot because I couldn't open the bolt because it hit the scope, that's a silly question. Whatever the scope, whatever the rifle, I mount the scope so the bolt is operable.

My argument is there is a very valid reason for rifles with short bolt lifts. I pointed them out. Done with this discussion

Never had a bolt hit the scope, no matter how it was mounted. Winchester, Ruger, Remington rifles.

I assume there's a dumbassed way to do it so they would hit, just that my brain doesn't have a low enough gear to come across that as a viable mounting option.

I also cycle my action cup and ball, I don't grip the bolt like I'm holding onto a stick, it simply pivots around in the palm/,meat of my hand.

Yea, short bolt lifts help when you have a 56mm objective. [bleep] this place is funny

Here's an even money bet, they guy that invented the shorter bolt left so he wouldn't miss on game and can now mount a scope with a 56mm objective wears these too...

I feel like a pariah with my MkV 30-06.

The weatherby snobs shun me cause its not a magnum.

Most everyone else because its a MkV.

The rest because its left handed.

It's a good thing it shoots. (But I did have to take off the speed bump and bed it. Temperamental thing.)

IIRC some Mark Vs in .30-06 can be worth a TON of money�..

yeah, I'm all about future value....

The biggest reason I got it was the deal at the time (it didn't have a bolt, and was unfired. I think it was made when I graduated high school or before.)

And it was left handed.

Pure luck that the WBY factory had a left hand 9 lug 473 LA bolt lying around to toss in there - for basically labor charges only. Seems they didn't really need it stinking up the shelves.

Agreed, depends on the Mark V, age, location of build, condition, condition, condition...

With hunting season approaching, there's bound to be an elk hunter in search of a caliber problem surfing the web for the
"ideal" uber shooter.

Pretty the factory accuracy garentee is the same for both rifles.

I like the Mark V, but either one would do. Mark Vs "usually" hold better value over time.

don't be dissin them kicks now, I'd pimp those anywhere.

not that it's relative to anything, but I've got a Steyr PH with the short(er) 70 deg "SBS" bolt throw. using a 2-7x leupold (bout the smallest ocular in existence), I have to use medium warnes to get the bolt to clear the ocular, due the shape of the handle. so yeah, as far as I can tell the degree of bolt throw means next to jack squat in terms of whether it will clear your scope.

I've had a Vanguard S2 that is now owned by a good friend. Great rifle, well built, and accurate. I've never owned a MkV to compare it to. That being said, I've rarely seen a MkV that could be bought for within $2-300 of the same thing in a Vanguard. For value at the same price point, I'd go MkV every day.

You need to just shut up and take notes. I've learned a ton on this thread:

-90 degree bolt lift is a huge problem requiring re-engineering of the "standard" bolt action. Mauser was a putz, in other words. And everyone who copied him.

-Winchester never made a push feed action

-Ruger American is a custom rifle maker

-No custom rifle makers use their own actions.


I'm going to get lunch, but I expect there'll be even more heretofore unbeknownst facts here when I get back.

So what. 10,000 people watch "Honey Boo Boo" on TV for every one that reads an actual newspaper.

But if you want to play that game, let's give it a whirl. We'll start with just Ruger, since you mentioned Ruger American Rifles. How many 2-lug bolts do you reckon Ruger has sold, vs. 3-luggers?

Now let's look at all major gun manufacturers combined, same question, how many 2-luggers vs. 3-luggers?

Kenny Jarrett Actions are 3 lug

Rah-Jah, I know an old man that would buy a clean MK-V from me in a heartbeat.

Got those in a 13EEE?

Just my own opinion, but I have had a Rem. 700 BDL in .300 WM for 27 years, and I love it. I also have a Vanguard in .243 Win, which also is a really fine-shooting rifle and functions great. But I bought my first MkV in 2009. I have bought two more bolt actions since then, and they also were both Mk Vs. They're just better to me. To me--it's all in what you like. I have a 7mm Ultra Lightweight that weighs 6-3/4 lbs (not counting scoping) and a .375 Wby DGR that weighs a lot more. I also have a .340 Wby Accumark that is the most accurate rifle I have ever shot. I just shot it yesterday, and it always amazes me. The 9-lug design is more difficult to manufacture well and expensive. But it requires a lot less movement to cycle and is so smooth when doing so. Not necessary to be sure, but I like it a lot better than any other bolt I have shot. Just my own preference.

You rang, sir?

shhhhhh.....

SH,

like Ingwe-san,




many times I hunt in Crocs



so should I hunt with 2 lugs, 3 lugs, 9 lugs, or by myself???

Best,

GWB

Pay attention and read thru the thread that is not what I said [bleep] There is a reason you are a school bus driver , wondering who you paid off in the school district to get even that job

Go Gaytors

wow amazing . Please list the scopes, rifles and ring base heights and lengths to authenticate this amazing statement.

WOw you really are a dense one.

How long has the RugerAmerican rifle been out compared to their 77 which has been out since the late sixties.

If it is made in greater or lesser quantities it does not diminish the fact that a multi lug(more then 2) makes a more accurate rifle, makes mounting scopes that have big oculars and objectives easier and If there is a drawback it is the increased effort on the bolt lift.

Now someone get a connect the dots coloring book for the Bus Driving Steelhead so he can figure this out....ah forget that it won't help.

37-7

In answer to the OP's original question, I wouldn't buy either rifle. I think you need to have a pretty good reason to sign up for .300 Weatherby mag recoil. It's just not a good move for most people.

Pure, unadulterated BS.

Or maybe you'd care to substantiate that, since you seem to be big on substantiation?

I said 'old man,' not "Stately Gentleman"

Thought you were done you dumbass.

Rifles were listed. Ruger rings were stock, others were DD, don't remember heights - just know I'm not dumb enough to put one on that didn't work. If the [bleep] thing hit - change it.

Cripes you need some meds or maybe a 5th grade education. I've seen some real dumb asses on the fire in the 11 years I've been here but you're gunning for top prize.

You rang, sir? [/quote]

I said 'old man,' not "Stately Gentleman" [/quote]

well, appreciate the overstatement, but I'll still take it, espcially in a 7 Wby mag!

Mark V's= ultimate dude rifle.

The less one shoots,the "better" the MKV gets.

Hint.................

Jorge, cool ad. Thanks for sharing. I wish I could get a Mark V at those prices! Make mine the .270 Bee please.

I have a bunch of the old Weatherby Guides with cool stuff like that in them.
They stopped publishing them in 1985 and they've become real collector items to those that are into Weatherby rifles. Elgin Gates, General Curtis Lemay, Robert Stack, Robert Taylor, Ike, folks like that. I can find some more at home and post them if you'd like.

I'd love it. Any of Gen. Chuck Yeager?

Georgie,

That is AWESOME!

Do you have the hat too?!?

Laughing!................

I think so, I'll look!

Found this:

Cool. It was just a year or two ago that I heard Gen Yeager was in Africa on a hunt. Still carrying a Mark V even at his age! But it was a .270 mag and not the .300 he always swore by.

Herb Klein,Nolan Ryan,Roy Rogers are some that I remember.

Yep, LOTS of gents that I admire and aspired to whilst growing up, both as professionals and in their hunting endeavors. There's a lesson in there...

Joe Foss was another who used the Mark V and he was no "dude" either.

Lotsa hands held there...as in all of them.

Hint...............

So true that.

I said 'old man,' not "Stately Gentleman" [/quote]

well, appreciate the overstatement, but I'll still take it, espcially in a 7 Wby mag! [/quote]

, I'll keep an ear to the ground.

Very much so.

For the same price absolutely! I have 9 of them and they all shoot great. Plus they are beautiful rifles.

I've had both and prefer the Vanguard.

The Mark 5 is the traditionally overpriced snob appeal gun with pretty wood. So it was priced up for the wood.
If both rifles are synthetic the reason to pay more is out of the equation.

It may depend if your personality prefers a Cadillac Escalade over a Chevy Tahoe.

Aesthetics is subjective,mechanics ain't.

VG by miles.................

Things change over the years.

Roy Weatherby was shrewd enough to give away his mark V rifles to celebrities.

He even gave one to Jack O'Connor, you can imagine how often he used that one.