�� many of which are as successful as the .308�??? Let�s see, that would include the, uh, ummm, uh, hmmm�. Can�t seem to think of a single one that I would consider as successful as the .308 Winchester, let alone �many�.

And how does the fact that it spawned offspring have anything to do with the usefulness of the parent cartridge itself? It doesn�t.

Never mind that, despite their similarity, the .308 Winchester and 7.62 NATO have slightly different specifications and are therefore technically not the same cartridge.

Not knocking the .308 or its offspring, as I think the .308 Winchester is one of the best rifle cartridges ever invented. There just seems to be a significant lack of logic and precision in the thinking of Simpson and Edmondson.

Besides, I would suggest the �most useful short-action cartridge ever developed � would be the .22LR.

I gave it a try, don't like it. Nuff said..

Myself, I prefer the 243, 260 and 7/08 over the 308...

I think its the best of the 308 based cartridges. I've probably taken 6000 head of game with the 308 Win, probably 75% of them with 150g cup and core bullets. Many of those in mass cull situations.

Used a fair bit of 243 which doesn't put game down nearly as consistently on-the-spot as the 308. Seen the 7-08 in action quite a lot, but could never discern any real difference to the way it performed vs the 308. No experience with the 260 Rem. Keen to try it though.

I suppose they're all as useful as one another though, depending on what you want them to do.

.358 Winchester

308, 7-08 both very versatile, easy to load and shoot rounds. Glad we got 'em. I'm shooting 308 win this year, the wife is shooting her 7-08ai as usual.

A .308win with 165 Ballistic Tips or Sierra 165 HPBT's
Sharp Knife
Hot grill
Salt
Pepper
Garlic
Beer
Cigar
Fat chic
Life is good...

I could probably hunt big game the rest of my life in the lower 48 with my Sako L579 308 WCF and not miss a thing.

If I ever get back to AK I'd use my granddad's M71 348 WCF for one more Moose just because.

308 WCF just works.

SC

The 308 and 7mm08 are peas in a pod if you ask me. The 260 lightens things up a touch. I love them all. The 308 is a great killer and I've used it a lot, but with today's bullet offerings, I prefer the other two for my needs.

"Most useful" was the terminology. In that case, it IS the .358. Others are more common, slightly better in some aspects, but it will do more different things than the others, covering more bases of game and bullets....JMO.

Side note - if spawning offspring was the criteria and the .308 was considered the winner, I suggest the award should go to the parent of the .308 Winchester instead, the .300 Savage.

Haec nulla, nullum.

Most that claim to not like the 308 family of cartridges have never killed with them.

I don't like the .308.....









P.S. I don't have one. WHAT?

Yeah, the 358 is just the berries on a prairie dog shoot.

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Wanna rub my 7-08?........it's packin' the high BC bullets.......


That's what she said......

I have always thought that the .308 Win was one of the best cartridges -not just short action- ever designed. It has spawned many excellent cartridges; e.g., .243 Win, 7MM-08 Rem, etc.

The .308 Win is inherently accurate. It will deliver velocities that meet or exceed factory ballistics. And it will put game in freezers.

I was going to go with an '06 as my light mountain rifle. Then I did the research. Excluding 220 grain bullets, which I would not use for my hunting needs, I found out that there ain't spittin' difference between the two. Hence, I went with the inherent accuracy and short-action.

About a year ago I read an article that indicated that the .308 Win has exceeded the deservedly venerated '06 in popularity as determined by sales.

The .308 Win has been around for better than fifty years. It'll be around for more than another fifty. I ain't so sure most short action cartridges will.

The bottom line is that hunting cartridges, like self-defense cartridges, are products of subjective criteria. I just returned for an elk hunt. One of the hunters in camp was using a .300 WSM. That was the first time I had seen one. It was a neat looking cartridge. But that was all it was: a cartridge, just like any other cartridge. The hunter obviously liked it, but the elk he killed with it assuredly didn't care much for it.

If I were accorded a hunting rifle do-over, I'd buy the best rifle I could afford in .280 Rem and never look back. But that's my preference. Other others see it a lot differently.

I like the .308 and it's kids.......my favorite family.

hell yeah!

Must say the 308 really fits that description. But what about the 284 winchester?? Little more powder and higher bc bullets with an endless selection of bullets..

I find the .223 a lot more useful.



Travis

And that's pretty hard to argue with.

Most useful in a variety of situations or on a variety of game? I could probably shoot everything I hunt from now on using nothing but the .308, but using it on some critters, both large and small, would properly be categorized as "stunt" shooting. For North America, I think that the .243 Winchester is probably truly more useful for a somewhat greater variety of game than the .308.

That said, the .223 is probably regularly used to take a greater variety of game these days than any other "short-action" cartridge, although it wouldn't be my first choice.

Well ya the 308 is a very useful cartridge. I taken it to Africa three times and used it to take 33 animals. From jackels to Impala to eland on the high end all with the 165gr TSX.

Is it the most useful well that's debatable.

Can't used the .223 to hunt in Alberta or Saskatchewan. Not sure about other locations. .308 would be my choice as a result.

ETA, I shoot a 7mm-08 and a .30-06.

SS

I cast my vote for the 308 as well for its versatility via good bullet selection.

7 WSM

Our own Brad's sig line about the .308 being a low drama cartridge, around since 1952, kicking little, yet killing a lot, pretty much says it all.

I like your sig line�..


Black dogs bark at night�.

And let's not forget the .338-08, which has become legitimized as the .338 Federal. An excellent cartridge for elk in the timber, and for whitetails.

Ymmv

Whatchu just said????

I don't think I heared you right.

Most useful short action cartridge(s)?

308 Winchester
300 Winchester Short Magnum

When people ask me what I shoot, I tell them a 308 Short Mag.

ingwe;
Good evening to you sir, I hope this finds you folks well.

I recall exchanging some correspondence with MacKay about his sig line when I first started showing up in these parts. Somehow I recall the other part of the message to be something about John having a long mustache.....

We've got a neighbor who is a retired Vancouver PD constable that takes in all manner of dogs now. He's stone deaf so it doesn't bother him that most of his dogs bark all night - only some of them being black.

To the OP's question, while I really should have bought a .223 years and years ago, because of my relatively new relationship with the cartridge I can't say for sure it's the "most useful" quite yet. It does appear though that a decent .223 would get a whole lot of use at this point.

Based upon what we have played with over the years a fair amount, I'd have to agree with MacKay and the posters who've voted for the .308.

That said, there's no flies on a 7-08 either and our journey with the .250AI has been a smooth one for sure too.

Anyway ingwe, all the best to you folks and good luck on your hunts this fall as well.

Dwayne

How's the 223rem more useful?

Don't see anything the 243 can't do as well or better than the others.


An embarrassment of great bullets pushed at meaningful velocity. It's kinda a big deal that dont cause much of a fuss.

You can't kill anything larger than elephants with the .223.

Like the .22 short, but this isn't about uber short, just plain vanilla short.

Carry on.

[quote=SansSouci]I have always thought that the .308 Win was one of the best cartridges -not just short action- ever designed. I.../quote]

Agreed. Not that I own one currently. Sold both of mine to fund my first AR in .3oo Blackout with an extra 5,56/.223 upper.

Hmmm.... 4 Merlots in Cody don't help my typing, but love this town...

It'll still kill a prairie dog as effectively as a moose or bear...was the point. Sure, its not optimal for prairie dogs, but prairie dogs ain't likely to kill you for merely pissing them off, either. I'm not arguing 'best', just broadest big game usefulness. Even a .243 isn't necessarily ideal for everything, though I own a few.;)

In terms of usefulness....

.22LR
.30-06
..223 Rem/.5.56 NATO
.308W

Just MHO, YMMV.


The usefulness of the .223/5.56 and .30-06 are up for discussion, but I'll stick with the .30--06 first.

Even though the .30-06 is not a short action...

For use on North American game the .308 is the obvious choice as the "best" short action cartridge. It is adiquite for anything from field mice to big bears if properly placed.

On the low side (varmits) it might be a bit more gun than is comfortable, but will kill a prairie dog just as dead as a high-speed .22 caliber. There is no such thing as "too deadly" so argument against the .308 based on varmit use just don't hold water.

On the other end of the spectrum, the .308 is getting very close to not being enough gun against the largest game animals. This is particularly true against the big bears which can bite back. However, a well placed .308 shot will definitely kill any bear that ever walked.....you just have to be careful.

It has the trajectory to be effective to 400+ yards....which is as (if not farther) than the "average" hunter should be taking game anyway.

The only legitimate challenger to the .308 (in my opinion) would be the .358. It would give up just a bit of range, but also give a bit more "whump" on the largest game.

Actually I have always felt the .308 was the most versitile ONLY because of the guns it is available in that won't chamber a longer round. If one is not limited to a short action rifle the .300 Magnums would be my choice as "best" for an all-around cartridge (the .30-06 would be almost as useful but I give the edge to the .300's due to being able to send the heaviest bullets with a bit more authority).

I've never really bought into the whole short action argument anyway. The .30-06 length cartridges are available in bolt, single shot, pump and semi-auto actions and I cannot see where a half-inch shorter action is any advantage. That is however my own opinion and I know lots of folks who spend big money to build short action rifles and believe they are superior. Confidence is such a big part of success so, for them, the short action IS better.

There is one argument that makes the .308 far superior to any .300 or .30-06. The Savage 99 cannot be made to handle anything longer than the .308.....so that makes it the "best" cartridge.

I have a few in the .308 size. In the short action's I'd have to stick with the 300WSM with 190gr bullet moving at 2800fps. Not knocking any other .308 caliber, but I/me/personally would go with that rifle if given an ultimatum to pick just one. YMMV

Re the 358 Win. Due to reasonably aerodynamic 358 bullets being so heavy, I don't feel the 358 Win has quite enough case capacity to send those bullets out with enough grunt.

Maybe the 338 Fed treads that middle ground better?

You went for the hard way.

Just up the case capacity a little to .350RM, the most useful short action game cartridge.

For a number of years, I killed everything I needed to kill in KY with a .243, with zero drama. Have killed stuff with a .308 and a 7-08. But, never warmed up to them.

Practically speaking, very little difference between a .308 and .30-06. I have a .30-06 at the moment. No need for a .308...

When you find out the handloads many use for their .30-06 you also find out they are really shooting a .308W.

260 Rem A.I.

Never quite understood that argument, UNLESS its all about past 300.....to 300, you're splitting hairs with bullets, velocity, drop, and effect, between the .358/350M/Whelen. If we're sticking to short actions, you can load for that in a .358, or stuff 90gr pistol bullets in it at 3k....or cast 300s at 1800, jacketed 158s at 2200, 180 TTSXs at 2800, 225 ABs at 2600+, or whatever....and do what you want with it. Hard to find a good way to launch stuff that heavy in the smaller bores, or the variety of bullets for various uses. My definition of usefulness probably isn't the same as others, though.

Yep... With handloads, I can easily throttle the .30-06 and the .300H&H down to .30-30 velocities. My practice loads for the .300H&H push Crod1972's 150gr Win PP's at about 2400 fps using SR4759. Not knocking the .308. Being that I hand load, I just wouldn't gain any benefit from owning one.

No doubt you can cut back on purpose. You understand where you are at. More than a few don't.

If it is not useful for the big bears it is not useful-358 Win all the way.

The most useful PAIR is the .223 and a .308.

Agreed...

This...

I don't see the 338 Fed or 358 having a thing over 308. A 308 will shoot the same bullet weights as 338 Fed within 50 fps. It'll shoot 220's at about the same speed as the 358 shoots 250's , and that is at the muzzle. Get 100 yards or farther down range and the 308 starts taking over. That is pretty much splitting hairs, especially when you consider the better penetration of the smaller bullet. If the 308 won't get the job done, then it is time to move up to a lot bigger gun than 338 fed or 358 won.

The only advantage 358 or 338 has over 308 is between between the ears of the shooter. Usually caused by people who don't understand that you really can shoot bullets heavier than 150 gr in a 308.

If held to a S/A cartridge I'd go with the .300 WSM.

284 Winchester

223 and 7mm-08

This thread could go full UBER.




Travis

Gotta be the �BER .308. It covers everything from varmints to big bears.

Especially when you have five-gal buckets full of brass.

A picture of the Fat Chic or it didn't happen....

Like the 223, it's at its best, when necked up or down...great parent cases. Better offspring.

You need time in rehab to get that heavy monkey off your back.

Hear tell "Chloe's World" has a wonderful facility....

That's just wrong.

7/08...no contest

You could hunt the world with a .22-250, a .250sav and a .300sav.