I made a deal with a guy on a pretty nice Kimber Montana off Armslist. The seller was in NC and was reluctant to ship at first. I guess he talked to his father (a lawyer I believe) and decided they would sell it to me. I TOLD him he could ship it direct to me but apparently wanted to use an FFL instead. I told him I'd ship him the gun case and box on my dime and he could ship it back in that to my FFL.

Ahhh, nope. He went to an FFL and was told $120 to ship it to my FFL.

Anybody in Raleigh Durham area??

http://www.armslist.com/posts/3785058/raleigh-north-carolina-rifles-for-sale--kimber-montana-7mm-08

$120 sound really high. Most FFL's will charge between $15 and $50 to do a transfer in my neck of the woods. If the person ships ground from UPS or Fedex, I can't imagine it would cost more than $30, so your talking $45 to $80 total. Maybe the lawyer advised him to ship it air which would dramatically raise the price to ship.

Sounds pretty steep. Maybe they are providing the hard case to ship it in? Ask him to try a different shop.

I live in Eastern NC and the going rate for FFL transfer around here is $20 or $25, and I FedEx-ed a rifle about 3 months ago and if I remember correctly it was about $35. He's gouging you by about double.

My FFL charges $20 to ship my long guns. That quote is ludicrous, find another dealer

I have an FFL that might charge close to that because they don't want to do them but would probably just say no deal!

I don't know what the scoop is on this FFL. Maybe I'm not getting the full story from the seller?? It isn't the end of the world just a bit disappointing.

All the shipping FFL has to do is to include a copy of a current FFL--otherwise, there is no paper work. The real work is at the receiving end. The guy received bad advise from his father and is getting hosed by his FFL. If I were you, I would think about it some more. Should the rifle be lost in shipping, it sounds like it could turn into a clusterf*ck.

There are other rifles out there. The guy with the Kimber obviously doesn't know much. I'd pass.

Though I pay incoming transfer fees, my FFL charges me face value for ship-outs.

I suspect there are details missing as to why the price is so high.

Do you have an FFl? $120 is high. No problem shipping direct to your FFl but not direct to you

I agree but the details aren't on my end!

Yes, yes and I told him that.

Damn! Thats way too high, find another FFL.........Hb

I just shipped a rifle from Missouri to Oregon. Cost of a box and packing materials was $18.50. I have an account with UPS and my cost to ship ground with insurance was $40.00. Then I had to take the ship ready box to UPS store. I can see it costing nearly $60 to just ship the firearm. Now let's add a reasonable FFL transfer fee of $25.00 and now it up to $85.00.

I have bought all but two of my 11 rifles and shotguns from stores or individuals that required shipping, and never paid more than $35. My Oklahoma FFL charges $10 per transfer. $120 sounds way too steep!

I usually spend about $40 for shipping and Ins, when using UPS. My FFL buddy charges me $15 for the transfer fee.

We charge $25 for transfer fee (gun shipped to my FFL from an internet sale),
shipping, packing, insurance, etc is usually around $50-$60.
SOMETIMES a know it all or certain type of customer comes in and just grates us wrong so we'll tell him it's $100 just so he'll leave.
People don't understand that as a business owner, I do not have to accept your business. Just sayin.....

Actually, the shipping seller does have to log the gun into his bound book and maintain a copy of the receiver's FFL. Not much, but that is why the FFL gets to charge a little something.

Gun can be shipped with insurance USPS Priority Mail for $35ish and arrive in 2 days. The prospective shipping FFL obviously has a major problem with doing an out of state deal. If the seller refuses to handle shipping himself check on gunbroker for an FFL in Raleigh. All dealers don't have this attitude.

Does the NY destination have anything to do with it?

The price quoted is outrageous.

$40 for the transfer and $19 for shipping and insurance as of Tuesday for me. My guy will receive from non FFL, but the buyers FFL wouldn't. No biggie, guy is a good dude and don't mind him making a few bucks.

$120 is stupid.

That did cross my mind and could be the answer.

If they plan to ship UPS or FedEx and tell them its a firearm; they will require next day and it can be $100; not so USPS.

Sounds like the dude doesn't want sell. Time to move on, if you haven't sent payment.

At this point, the stupid thing would be buying the rifle. I'd say no to the deal.

That's not true. Next day is only required for handguns.

It's a crap shoot when you have two FFL's involved. In my parts they will not receive from a non FFL. It is however legal to do so. Rock and a hard spot. I have shipped to an FFL from myself no issues. Other times pay the fees OR.. About to do a deal myself, from my FFL to another FFL who will not receive from an individual. Keeping my fingers crossed, maybe turn out to be bitchin contest............

The one twenty sounds like into: New York, California,..... or Mass "gun transfer special". What most people fail to realize is USA is fifty small countries with two official languages Spanish and American English.

FedEx and UPS say they want Next Day, but that is just their "suggestion" and has nothing to do with law. Send it anyway you like and do not call it a firearm.

Nothing to do with LAW, true, but Company Rules, Policy, regulation. Not worth the risk of that being the one lost package and not getting insurance paid because you tried to save a few dollars. The previous owner shipped a Ruger O/U, ground, no insurance, it got lost, the gun sold for $1200on gunbroker, UPS finally paid the owner $100.
I had to overnight a pistol for a guy, GA to Mo, with Insurance, MY COST was $116. I've shipped TONS of guns, and this was the firs ttime the asked if it was a handgun and I said yes, so I had to ship air.

Where's Bricktop? We could get 30 pages out of this...................

Have him go to Carolina GunRunners. I have shipped several rifles out through them and it is always about $30.

I am guessing he wanted them to box it up. I can tell you that when people wanted me to box up a gun, they paid more than shipping cost, maybe not $120 but I was not doing it for the actual cost of shipping. I put a lot of effort into making sure the gun gets to its destination in one piece.

I have a rule of thumb that has worked well for me. When people begin to complicate simple things, I punt.

Exactly. Imagine said person if something that required actual thought were to become of relevance...........

Yep, the minute he started making things difficult I'd have told him to keep it and refund the money. I don't have time for that.

Steely nails it, again.

TFF Steely.

Just shipped a rifle from me to an FFL it cost $36 that was priority mail with $600 insurance on top. Piece of cake.

I think part of the reason for the high quote is that you live in the People's Republic of New York.

Packing and shipping is not an afterthought to do it right and if you want something to arrive safely. A lot of sellers seem to be clueless.

I tell folks I pack as if King Kong himself were handling the packages, and many package handlers would be an insult to that fine Gorilla.

I send detailed instructions to a seller as to how to ship and pack, and I always include a couple of dollars extra for insurance.

I'd separate the action from the stock in separate boxes, then both boxes in the same package to allow for a shorter box length for internal strength... 2 boxes in separate boxes inside a larger box with lots of bubble wrap and peanuts.

Am I obsessive...???

Absolutely, but I've had sellers not use any wrapping or not even seal the box with tape!

One of my buddies sued UPS for interference with a business violation because they kept losing or breaking his shipments...he won the case, but he is an SOB and his wife is an attorney.

Note the OP where I mentioned I was going to send a box and case to the seller to ship the gun back to me in.

The deal IS done/finished/over. The FFL was emailed to the seller but the box and check didn't get sent, thankfully.

I sold a Colt Anaconda to a guy in NM 2 months ago and my FFL handled the shipment since his FFl wouldn't handle it from an individual. Shipping USPS priority mail and 2k worth of insurance was 60 bucks . Just saying

I was under the impression that no handguns can be shipped USPS, FFL or not

Same at our store. If we have to wrap it, pad it, box it, insure it, and mail it, they get charged for it. If my staff is doing the customer's work ( and not on the sales floor ), the customer pays. We over-pack it to insure that there are no accidents with the contents.

Or, the customer can do it for themselves.

You got the wrong impression. FFL to FFL may use USPS for handguns and a Flat Rate Priority Mail Box is perfect for almost all handguns. Usually costs around $30-35 including lots of insurance.

Nope FFL can use them

That is totally not so.

I do most of my shooting business with one store. They process all of my online purchases without charge. If I wish to sell something they gladly take it on consignment, and actively promote it for my asking price. For the consignment sale they charge a 10% fee.

These guys are older than me, by a bit, and I dread the day they pull the pin and retire...

Edit; I have never sold any firearm online, so I have no experience with that process.

Actually he is correct in my experience... One of the reasons I do not use them unless forced.

Last time I checked (about two months ago), that was true only for handguns, not long guns, and second-day air was acceptable. However, UPS will no longer accept shipments of firearms of any kind from my home, despite my having had an account for over ten years and having shipped many different firearms, both long guns and handguns, in the past. Unfortunately, policies seem to be changing almost daily our current political climate, so I call or email customer service before trying to ship a firearm via either UPS or FedEx these days.

Any of you guys ever have to send a copy of your Drivers License when sending a rifle to an FFL? I was just asked for this and have never had this before.

I have been asked before and regularly do it, although I black out the information not needed for the bound book.

I have had issues where I bought a rifle and when it arrived at my FFL there was no info to fill out the entry into the bound book, no name or address and then the seller went silent.

Thanks for the reply, I have never been asked this before. I guess its not a big deal, just threw up a red flag. I like the idea of blacking out some info not needed.

My dealer will not transfer a gun to me without a copy of the seller's drivers license (if shipping from an individual). I don't think it's unusual for a dealer to request that.

+1... It's unusual if a seller (whom is a non licensee) doesn't send a copy of their drivers license...

It's a damn big deal if you are the buyer and the seller doesn't send their info. Just sayin..

Because there is absolutely no way to verify ANYTHING from a license copy it is without value, completely! I seldom get it because I never ask for it. I know who the seller is and that info goes in my book because it is required; but it is valueless.

i tape all that to the outside

DL
SSN
Bank #s
Investment#s

etc.

Exactly how is it a big deal to the buyer?

A name and address is all that is required for the records, and it is never sworn information nor verified in any reasonable way.

It's a damn big deal if you are the buyer and the seller doesn't send their info. Just sayin.. [/quote]

I said it was NOT a big deal. I have always provided my information just have never been asked for photo ID. I have only ever shipped maybe half dozen or so rifles and this has never come up.

Yup and my dealer charges 15.00 for incoming guns. For outgoing I ship myself with a copy of my D/L to the receiving dealer.

If these terms are not acceptable to the other party then no deal!

I used to have a FFL but let it expire about 10 years ago because of the ever increasing amount of veiled threats from the ATF that I didn't want to put up with. Because of that I have a few generic observations:

We really shoot ourselves in the foot as gun owners and also FFL holders when we start making up our own rules going above and beyond what the government requires in firearms transfers. The rules are already onerous and unconstitutional, don't make it worse by trying to "cover your ass" during the transaction. You're not required to use a FFL to ship a firearm to a FFL holder, so don't do it. If everyone starts doing that in an attempt to cover their rear then it becomes the de facto norm. Pretty soon all the FFL holders in an area get hooked on the transfer fees and start demanding only to receive from another FFL. Now we've made the law even more onerous than it was for no other reason that the greed of some FFL holders and a few guys that are so afraid of pissing off the ATF that they make up their own rules. I can assure you that you're not going to get a pat on the back from Obama or any BATFE agent by going above and beyond the requirements, so don't do it.

It's the same thing with sending a driver's license copy or demanding one during the transaction. That's not required anywhere and I wouldn't give it to someone if they asked. What's a license to drive a car got to do with buying a gun anyway? All that's required is a name and address, it's not required to be verified in any way and if the guy shipped it to you then you've got the name and address, put it down and go on about your business.

Don't make this stuff harder than it is already and don't let a leftist administration like this shut down private gun sales by getting everyone running so scared that we effectively do it to ourselves.

Sounds like to me he is going to one of those Pack and Ship places... they usually charge double to as high as triple the rates UPS and Fed Ex Charge them...

so $120 isn't out of line for what those places charge for shipping something that should cost $40 to take care of...

I know mine does it because he's deals in suppressors and SBR's as well and gets his books audited annually by the ATF. I don't have any problem enclosing a copy of my DL with a gun I'm shipping and I do it now whether the buyer asks for it or not. No black helicopters hovering over my house......yet.

I am going to be a devils advocate here. First of all if I was the one selling the rifle my red flag would have went up as soon as you asked for it to be shipped direct to you. This is illegal and if you didn't know that I am surprised, most folks on here are well aware of that. So perhaps his insistence on using an FFL to ship to your FFL arose because of that.

Now to the cost. You were going to send a guncase and box to him to have it shipped back to you. So let's say that would have been $25. out of your pocket, perhaps more depending on the weight of the guncase. The shipping and insurance costs would be around $40. and if his FFL charges $35 for his time it adds up to $100.

Now he takes it to an his FFL to ship and will have to pay around $35 for a guncase, his FFL will probably assess a small charge for a shipping box - say $10. Then shipping and insurance will be around $40 which brings up the total to $85 and the FFL adds another $35 for his time which now brings up the total to $120. - only $20. more that doing it your way.

So to me looking at it like that $120 does not seem unreasonable.

drover

In this statement I meant that he could ship it to MY FFL, I worded it poorly in this statement but then I did say "my FFL":

"I TOLD him he could ship it direct to me but apparently wanted to use an FFL instead. I told him I'd ship him the gun case and box on my dime and he could ship it back in that to my FFL."

You lost me on the rest of your statement. I have 4 hardcases from Melvin Forbes sitting in my attic, all safe and sound in the cardboard shipping boxes they come in. For me to ship one of them empty to the seller isn't a $40 deal. I just did it a couple months ago...........

All the seller had to do is take the certified check out of the case/box, deposit or cash it. Pull bolt from gun, put gun in case with bolt and seal up the box and case. Drive to UPS/FedEx/USPS and send it to my FFL. He already had the FFL's license in hand.

Look a little deeper, maybe you can read something else into it.

I am not trying to read anything into it. I read what you wrote, which you admit is poorly worded, the way it is written it states that you wanted it shipped to you. If you would have said shipped to my FFL then it would have been clear. Do not blame me for your lack of communication skills.

But regardless that does not change the numbers of what shipping would cost if he wanted to use an FFL to ship it. It still only comes out to $20 more.

ship guncase & box from NY to NC - $25.

ship rifle from NC to NY (insured) - $40.

Sellers FFL fee $35.

TOTAL - $100.


drover

I understood it, but I'm not from Idaho.

"I told him I'd ship him the gun case and box on my dime and he could ship it back in that to my FFL."

I agreed I worded it poorly in the OP but I think it is pretty [bleep] clear what the statement above says, isn't it?

My freaking case/box were to be sent to him on MY dime, all he had to do is wrap the [bleep] thing up and drop it in the mail to MY FFL. Like I said, he already had the FFL in hand.

It would cost him what, $30 maybe $40 to ship it to my FFL?

That would be an $80 difference at the most.

Clear?

Maybe he just doesn't like Yankees.....

I was doing nothing more than pointing out how the way it is written could have easily led to a misunderstanding on the part of the seller.

I was also pointing out a scenario of how it could run as much as $100 to ship it, if he wanted to use an FFL and not use the box you wanted to provide.

There is no point in getting pi$$y with me because of your poorly written description of what occurred. Actually I bet it would be interesting to hear the sellers version of what occurred.

drover

Must be it..

Call him.

Nothing to do with black helicopters, it's just screwing his customers by making requirements above and beyond the law. If he gets his books audited annually by the ATF then he should know it's not required. If an agent asks his why he doesn't have a copy of their driver's license he should politely ask to be shown in the regulations where he is supposed to have one, that will shut them up. It's either written or it's not, if it's not written then it's not required, that simple.

Do you drive 35 in a 55 zone because it's "more legal" than going 55? Do you sit at a stop sign for an extra 10 seconds because that makes you more stopped than stopping for a second?

I'm not saying don't comply with the law, I'm saying stop making up rules that aren't on the books in the hopes of covering your butt. First, it isn't going to cover your butt, and second it screws other gun owners by "law creep" when everybody starts doing it. The laws are already onerous enough, by making them worse you play right into the hands of people like Obama and Holder who would make things so difficult that it'll be practically impossible to sell firearms between two private individuals. That's what they're really after.

Yup.

The Senator was correct--American people are STUPID.

Trust me...if FFLs keep adjusting the requirements by making them more strick...the BATF will follow suit and increase the stringentness of the laws.

Edit to add...I'm not wholey certain stringentness is a word. But I'm going to keep using it till Websters adopts it.

What Senator was that?

The

?

My UPS depot gives me all kinds of grief every time I ship a rifle. I always have the paperwork in hand from the FFL and everything is always in order. They just have anti gun jerks working the counter is all. I have been told to say "I am shipping golf clubs", or something similar. That would work of course, but what if the package actually does go missing, or is stolen? Then what the hell are you supposed to say?

Don't tell them a [bleep] thing. So if you think EVERYONE that walks into UPS with a 3"x3" box gets asked what is in it? Where on your receipt does it state what is in the box?

You figure Cabelas gets asked what is in every box they ship every day? You figure UPS rights all that down?

Get a UPS account, print out the shiet at the house, and drop the [bleep] box off.