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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2009
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My dealer will not transfer a gun to me without a copy of the seller's drivers license (if shipping from an individual). I don't think it's unusual for a dealer to request that.
Yup and my dealer charges 15.00 for incoming guns. For outgoing I ship myself with a copy of my D/L to the receiving dealer. If these terms are not acceptable to the other party then no deal!
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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I used to have a FFL but let it expire about 10 years ago because of the ever increasing amount of veiled threats from the ATF that I didn't want to put up with. Because of that I have a few generic observations:
We really shoot ourselves in the foot as gun owners and also FFL holders when we start making up our own rules going above and beyond what the government requires in firearms transfers. The rules are already onerous and unconstitutional, don't make it worse by trying to "cover your ass" during the transaction. You're not required to use a FFL to ship a firearm to a FFL holder, so don't do it. If everyone starts doing that in an attempt to cover their rear then it becomes the de facto norm. Pretty soon all the FFL holders in an area get hooked on the transfer fees and start demanding only to receive from another FFL. Now we've made the law even more onerous than it was for no other reason that the greed of some FFL holders and a few guys that are so afraid of pissing off the ATF that they make up their own rules. I can assure you that you're not going to get a pat on the back from Obama or any BATFE agent by going above and beyond the requirements, so don't do it.
It's the same thing with sending a driver's license copy or demanding one during the transaction. That's not required anywhere and I wouldn't give it to someone if they asked. What's a license to drive a car got to do with buying a gun anyway? All that's required is a name and address, it's not required to be verified in any way and if the guy shipped it to you then you've got the name and address, put it down and go on about your business.
Don't make this stuff harder than it is already and don't let a leftist administration like this shut down private gun sales by getting everyone running so scared that we effectively do it to ourselves.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,839 Likes: 4 |
Sounds like to me he is going to one of those Pack and Ship places... they usually charge double to as high as triple the rates UPS and Fed Ex Charge them...
so $120 isn't out of line for what those places charge for shipping something that should cost $40 to take care of...
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Joined: Feb 2003
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2003
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I used to have a FFL but let it expire about 10 years ago because of the ever increasing amount of veiled threats from the ATF that I didn't want to put up with. Because of that I have a few generic observations:
We really shoot ourselves in the foot as gun owners and also FFL holders when we start making up our own rules going above and beyond what the government requires in firearms transfers. The rules are already onerous and unconstitutional, don't make it worse by trying to "cover your ass" during the transaction. You're not required to use a FFL to ship a firearm to a FFL holder, so don't do it. If everyone starts doing that in an attempt to cover their rear then it becomes the de facto norm. Pretty soon all the FFL holders in an area get hooked on the transfer fees and start demanding only to receive from another FFL. Now we've made the law even more onerous than it was for no other reason that the greed of some FFL holders and a few guys that are so afraid of pissing off the ATF that they make up their own rules. I can assure you that you're not going to get a pat on the back from Obama or any BATFE agent by going above and beyond the requirements, so don't do it.
It's the same thing with sending a driver's license copy or demanding one during the transaction. That's not required anywhere and I wouldn't give it to someone if they asked. What's a license to drive a car got to do with buying a gun anyway? All that's required is a name and address, it's not required to be verified in any way and if the guy shipped it to you then you've got the name and address, put it down and go on about your business.
Don't make this stuff harder than it is already and don't let a leftist administration like this shut down private gun sales by getting everyone running so scared that we effectively do it to ourselves.
I know mine does it because he's deals in suppressors and SBR's as well and gets his books audited annually by the ATF. I don't have any problem enclosing a copy of my DL with a gun I'm shipping and I do it now whether the buyer asks for it or not. No black helicopters hovering over my house......yet.
Sent from my Dingleberry Handheld Wireless
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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I made a deal with a guy on a pretty nice Kimber Montana off Armslist. The seller was in NC and was reluctant to ship at first. I guess he talked to his father (a lawyer I believe) and decided they would sell it to me. I TOLD him he could ship it direct to me but apparently wanted to use an FFL instead. I told him I'd ship him the gun case and box on my dime and he could ship it back in that to my FFL. Ahhh, nope. He went to an FFL and was told $120 to ship it to my FFL. Anybody in Raleigh Durham area?? http://www.armslist.com/posts/3785058/raleigh-north-carolina-rifles-for-sale--kimber-montana-7mm-08 I am going to be a devils advocate here. First of all if I was the one selling the rifle my red flag would have went up as soon as you asked for it to be shipped direct to you. This is illegal and if you didn't know that I am surprised, most folks on here are well aware of that. So perhaps his insistence on using an FFL to ship to your FFL arose because of that. Now to the cost. You were going to send a guncase and box to him to have it shipped back to you. So let's say that would have been $25. out of your pocket, perhaps more depending on the weight of the guncase. The shipping and insurance costs would be around $40. and if his FFL charges $35 for his time it adds up to $100. Now he takes it to an his FFL to ship and will have to pay around $35 for a guncase, his FFL will probably assess a small charge for a shipping box - say $10. Then shipping and insurance will be around $40 which brings up the total to $85 and the FFL adds another $35 for his time which now brings up the total to $120. - only $20. more that doing it your way. So to me looking at it like that $120 does not seem unreasonable. drover
223 Rem, my favorite cartridge - you can't argue with truckloads of dead PD's and gophers.
24hourcampfire.com - The site where there is a problem for every solution.
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Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 8,780 |
I made a deal with a guy on a pretty nice Kimber Montana off Armslist. The seller was in NC and was reluctant to ship at first. I guess he talked to his father (a lawyer I believe) and decided they would sell it to me. I TOLD him he could ship it direct to me but apparently wanted to use an FFL instead. I told him I'd ship him the gun case and box on my dime and he could ship it back in that to my FFL. Ahhh, nope. He went to an FFL and was told $120 to ship it to my FFL. Anybody in Raleigh Durham area?? http://www.armslist.com/posts/3785058/raleigh-north-carolina-rifles-for-sale--kimber-montana-7mm-08 I am going to be a devils advocate here. First of all if I was the one selling the rifle my red flag would have went up as soon as you asked for it to be shipped direct to you. This is illegal and if you didn't know that I am surprised, most folks on here are well aware of that. So perhaps his insistence on using an FFL to ship to your FFL arose because of that. Now to the cost. You were going to send a guncase and box to him to have it shipped back to you. So let's say that would have been $25. out of your pocket, perhaps more depending on the weight of the guncase. The shipping and insurance costs would be around $40. and if his FFL charges $35 for his time it adds up to $100. Now he takes it to an his FFL to ship and will have to pay around $35 for a guncase, his FFL will probably assess a small charge for a shipping box - say $10. Then shipping and insurance will be around $40 which brings up the total to $85 and the FFL adds another $35 for his time which now brings up the total to $120. - only $20. more that doing it your way. So to me looking at it like that $120 does not seem unreasonable. drover In this statement I meant that he could ship it to MY FFL, I worded it poorly in this statement but then I did say "my FFL": "I TOLD him he could ship it direct to me but apparently wanted to use an FFL instead. I told him I'd ship him the gun case and box on my dime and he could ship it back in that to my FFL." You lost me on the rest of your statement. I have 4 hardcases from Melvin Forbes sitting in my attic, all safe and sound in the cardboard shipping boxes they come in. For me to ship one of them empty to the seller isn't a $40 deal. I just did it a couple months ago........... All the seller had to do is take the certified check out of the case/box, deposit or cash it. Pull bolt from gun, put gun in case with bolt and seal up the box and case. Drive to UPS/FedEx/USPS and send it to my FFL. He already had the FFL's license in hand. Look a little deeper, maybe you can read something else into it.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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I am not trying to read anything into it. I read what you wrote, which you admit is poorly worded, the way it is written it states that you wanted it shipped to you. If you would have said shipped to my FFL then it would have been clear. Do not blame me for your lack of communication skills.
But regardless that does not change the numbers of what shipping would cost if he wanted to use an FFL to ship it. It still only comes out to $20 more.
ship guncase & box from NY to NC - $25.
ship rifle from NC to NY (insured) - $40.
Sellers FFL fee $35.
TOTAL - $100.
drover
223 Rem, my favorite cartridge - you can't argue with truckloads of dead PD's and gophers.
24hourcampfire.com - The site where there is a problem for every solution.
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
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I understood it, but I'm not from Idaho.
"I told him I'd ship him the gun case and box on my dime and he could ship it back in that to my FFL."
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Joined: Jan 2006
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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I told him I'd ship him the gun case and box on my dime and he could ship it back in that to my FFL.
I agreed I worded it poorly in the OP but I think it is pretty [bleep] clear what the statement above says, isn't it? My freaking case/box were to be sent to him on MY dime, all he had to do is wrap the [bleep] thing up and drop it in the mail to MY FFL. Like I said, he already had the FFL in hand. It would cost him what, $30 maybe $40 to ship it to my FFL? That would be an $80 difference at the most. Clear?
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Joined: Feb 2010
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 17,927 |
Maybe he just doesn't like Yankees.....
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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I was doing nothing more than pointing out how the way it is written could have easily led to a misunderstanding on the part of the seller.
I was also pointing out a scenario of how it could run as much as $100 to ship it, if he wanted to use an FFL and not use the box you wanted to provide.
There is no point in getting pi$$y with me because of your poorly written description of what occurred. Actually I bet it would be interesting to hear the sellers version of what occurred.
drover
223 Rem, my favorite cartridge - you can't argue with truckloads of dead PD's and gophers.
24hourcampfire.com - The site where there is a problem for every solution.
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Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
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Maybe he just doesn't like Yankees..... Must be it..
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Joined: Jan 2006
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Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
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Actually I bet it would be interesting to hear the sellers version of what occurred.
drover Call him.
Last edited by Lawdwaz; 12/14/14.
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Joined: Mar 2001
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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I know mine does it because he's deals in suppressors and SBR's as well and gets his books audited annually by the ATF. I don't have any problem enclosing a copy of my DL with a gun I'm shipping and I do it now whether the buyer asks for it or not. No black helicopters hovering over my house......yet.
Nothing to do with black helicopters, it's just screwing his customers by making requirements above and beyond the law. If he gets his books audited annually by the ATF then he should know it's not required. If an agent asks his why he doesn't have a copy of their driver's license he should politely ask to be shown in the regulations where he is supposed to have one, that will shut them up. It's either written or it's not, if it's not written then it's not required, that simple. Do you drive 35 in a 55 zone because it's "more legal" than going 55? Do you sit at a stop sign for an extra 10 seconds because that makes you more stopped than stopping for a second? I'm not saying don't comply with the law, I'm saying stop making up rules that aren't on the books in the hopes of covering your butt. First, it isn't going to cover your butt, and second it screws other gun owners by "law creep" when everybody starts doing it. The laws are already onerous enough, by making them worse you play right into the hands of people like Obama and Holder who would make things so difficult that it'll be practically impossible to sell firearms between two private individuals. That's what they're really after.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,638 |
I used to have a FFL but let it expire about 10 years ago because of the ever increasing amount of veiled threats from the ATF that I didn't want to put up with. Because of that I have a few generic observations:
We really shoot ourselves in the foot as gun owners and also FFL holders when we start making up our own rules going above and beyond what the government requires in firearms transfers. The rules are already onerous and unconstitutional, don't make it worse by trying to "cover your ass" during the transaction. You're not required to use a FFL to ship a firearm to a FFL holder, so don't do it. If everyone starts doing that in an attempt to cover their rear then it becomes the de facto norm. Pretty soon all the FFL holders in an area get hooked on the transfer fees and start demanding only to receive from another FFL. Now we've made the law even more onerous than it was for no other reason that the greed of some FFL holders and a few guys that are so afraid of pissing off the ATF that they make up their own rules. I can assure you that you're not going to get a pat on the back from Obama or any BATFE agent by going above and beyond the requirements, so don't do it.
It's the same thing with sending a driver's license copy or demanding one during the transaction. That's not required anywhere and I wouldn't give it to someone if they asked. What's a license to drive a car got to do with buying a gun anyway? All that's required is a name and address, it's not required to be verified in any way and if the guy shipped it to you then you've got the name and address, put it down and go on about your business.
Don't make this stuff harder than it is already and don't let a leftist administration like this shut down private gun sales by getting everyone running so scared that we effectively do it to ourselves.
Yup.
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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The Senator was correct--American people are STUPID.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2008
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Trust me...if FFLs keep adjusting the requirements by making them more strick...the BATF will follow suit and increase the stringentness of the laws.
Edit to add...I'm not wholey certain stringentness is a word. But I'm going to keep using it till Websters adopts it.
TRUMP- GABBARD 2024
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2003
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The Senator was correct--American people are STUPID. What Senator was that?
If you take the time it takes, it takes less time.
--Pat Parelli
American by birth; Alaskan by choice.
--ironbender
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Joined: Dec 2003
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2003
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If you take the time it takes, it takes less time.
--Pat Parelli
American by birth; Alaskan by choice.
--ironbender
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