I keep looking at the Weatherby Accumark in 300 WBY Mag in the back of my safe. I haven't carried it since 2003 and I don't think I ever will again. I have a T3 SS in 7mm Rem Mag that gives me 3000 ft/sec with a 160 Accubond and close to MOA accuracy. In practical terms would I be giving anything up by selling the Weatherby and retaining the Tikka?

I hunt elk, deer, antelope, maybe bear. Farthest shot is around 450 yards, 500 if I practice like I should.


P

I'd take a 7 Rem Mag over any 300 straight up but thats just me. 162 A-max's are your friend. Good luck.

[quote=Pharmsel I haven't carried it since 2003 and I don't think I ever will again. [/quote]

I think you answered your own question.

I would always pick a .300, but my pals would always pick a 7 mag.. I could hunt the rest of my days with a big 7, but my old .300 and I have been on lots of hunts in lots of places.. I have great faith in it.. I owned one of the first 7's in our country, and one of the first .300's the 7 is long gone, but the .30 is still here..

But as I said, I could hunt with my 7's the rest of my career and it would be just ok..

I'd take the 7mm Rem Magnificent personally.

P -

I love the 300 WIN M and the 7 RM....

I shoot both so it'd be a harder decision for me.


I agree w/ Smokey

Jerry

300 WBY Mag, not Win Mag, but that doesn't change much, practically speaking.



P

I Know !

Same principle & application.

Doesn't change the situation.

7mm all day and twice on hunting days.

I've got a 300 WBY and 300 Win setting my safe along with a 7. I pulled the scopes off of the 300s a couple of years ago. The 7 will be here when the 300s are long gone.

Only thing I can think of that a 300 will do that a 7mm will NOT do is



the 300 will shoot a 30 caliber bullet.

And for the record, I too agree with Smokey - I think you answered your own question. If your 300 is a safe queen, sell or trade it for something you don't have now!

I have had guys tell me that the recoil from a 338WM is more
manageable than a 300WBY, but I have never been a magnum person
to begin with.

Hunted with a 7mm RM for 20+ years and always wondered if I had made a mistake by not buying a .300WM instead. Finally got a .300WM and it killed elk just as dead but no deader or quicker.

But I'm not getting rid pf either one as I hope to have many more years in which I use them.

I do think the 7mm RM is the more versatile of the two for my purposes, which includes occasional varmints, antelope, mule deer and elk.

A 300 WBY can shoot 200 and 220 grain bullets. A 7 mag cannot. That sells it for me. I just like bigger bullets than what a 7mm has to offer.

It depends on where you start your scale and where the increments that make a difference lie. For example, if I initially grab one of my 7 mags but think no, this isn't enough, then I'm likely to reach past my 300's and grab my 338 full of 250 Noslers.

The 300 Wby will make it much harder to place your shots well.

For 'some' people !

Mornin Rin.




Jerry

Same here, except I stuff my .338WM with 225g AccuBond bullets.

The primary reason to grab my .300WM instead of my 7mm RM is the .300 has a Ruger Zytel semi-skeleton stock, which is impervious to the weather in which I hunt. (I don't know how it would do at -30F but having experienced same I'll never hunt in such weather either.)

Not necessarily as much depends on the individual loads used and the fit/style of the rifles in question.

But, continuing with your line of thought, a .338WM should make accuracy still harder to achieve. The groups shoot with my .338 are not noticeably larger than those I shoot with my 7mm RM and the longest shot and kill I've ever made, an elk at 487 lasered yards, was with the .338.

C H - YES -

Recoil is Recoil

People are different..

STOCK FIT is of UTmost importance.

Everybody is forgetting about the ability of the .300 Roy to turn cash into gunsmoke at a much faster rate, using factory loaded rounds. You cant get those kind of super powers just anywhere.

You forgot,RinB, that we are all macho macho and bulletproof on here.

And that most don't shoot enough for the cumulative effects of the 300s greater recoil to matter?

I have all bee calibers save the 338-378 and I picked up an unneeded 7mm rem mag. I like them all, and they are all staying.

Here she is Voere Titan II. Had to have her.







first day out 162 Hornadt BT IL at 3065 fps

There's just something special about a 200gr bullet smoking along at 3100fps.

A little of my background:

To Date I have found my recoil 'tolerance limit' ONE time.
I had and still have a 700 BDL 8mm RM. I have shot it plenty with 200 & 220 gr bullets with powder charges in the 80+ gr range. Yes, I notice that recoil but it does not punish me.

The 700 stock PLUS Rem recoil PAD do a good job FOR ME. Fit has a lot to do with 'felt' or perceived recoil.


OTOH - I HAD, I say HAD a 77 tanger 338 WM with only a butt pad<not RECOIL> pad. I shot 225gr bullets with IMR 4350, don't remember the charge but in the 70 + range.

THAT 77 not only kicked but HURT every time I shot it. I ladder tested, graph & group, found a -1" load and sighted the rifle in---BUT before deer season it MADE DUST going down the road. IT HURT. I don't have to put up with that kind of punishment.

The 8 Mag shoots MORE powder with only 5 grain less bullet weight THAN the 77 - 338, but it did NOT punish me. I still have it. I'd say the 8 R M does NOT have less recoil than the 300 Bee.

Now as to 300s -- I have 1 300 WM today but I've had 3-4 in the past. Today's is a 70 WINLITE, I shoot 180s at 3000-3100 fps. I hunted that rifle exclusively 08-09-& 10 and killed more than 1 deer each season.


MY conclusion - the stock FIT and recoil PAD have LOTS to do with felt recoil.

BTW - I've shot a 700 BDL 375 HH enuff that I can shoot & hunt it IF I needed one. (Stock&Pad)

NO anger or resentment - just real assessment.

I'd pick a big 30 over a big 7 every time but that is what I grew up with.

I didn't have a very good opinion of the big 7's until I helped a friend of mine guiding in South Africa for about 2 months and used his 7 MM Rem Mag.

160 Nosler Partitions are killers.

6MM -

I have and have had both 300s & 7 magS. I like both.

The 7 RM & 300 Mags are 2 of 4 that I'd have a hard time of deciding which to keep/get rid of IF I HAD TO.

Ain't going to IF I don't have to.

Jerry

jwall, you experience mirrors mine.. I had a m77 Ruger in .338 that I bought in the 70's.. It was a kicker, not recoil, it kicked.. The comb of the stock hit my cheek each time I fired it.. I have had the .338 in several other model 700's,but today my 338 is a .340 wea.. I built on a 700 action..It is my choice in the .338 caliber..

As I said, I have 7mm's and .300's.. I just like the 300's better.. But my 7's have killed a pile of game for me and will kill some more if I live long enough.. One of them became my wife's favorite big game caliber.. She was not a shooter, but liked to hunt.. The 140 gr. BTBT and Re 22 was her load, she made some remarkable shots.. Most of the credit goes to the 7mm and the flat shooting 140's..

W C H -

Thnx for the 'mirror'.

Sorry for the pain. Mine only kicked my shoulder like a mad MULE.

340 Wby huh ?
That's a lot more cartridge than 338 WM.
Certainly illustrates the difference 'stock fit' and recoil pad can make.

I was expecting much more recoil from the 375 H H and it was more push but NOT punishing.


I also had a light weight 358 Win that a neighbor, after seeing me shoot, would NOT shoot period. It did buck but did not hurt.

Some people are simply recoil shy.
Some people like 'cottage cheese' - ain't fit for pigs.
Some people like liver -- too strong for me.

Some people CAN'T drink milk.

We are all different.

Agreed.......200 AB at over 3k.....

jwall -

As you can see in the photo, my Ruger MKII is not stock. In act, it came to me in pieces, barrel from Bear Paw Jack, stock from gunpartscorp.com, naked action from a gun show, Sims LimbSaver recoil pad. Although fairly lightweight, the 22" barrel reduces velocity a bit and the recoil pad helps a lot. Still, I don't target shoot with it except for pre-season practice. Hunting load is a 225g AB @ 2742fps.

L-to-R, .338WM, .300WM, .30-06

If there ever was an overrated cartridge, it is the 7mm mag. You could make the same comparison of a 7mm mag and the 30-06. I doubt there are as many elk killed with a 7mm mag as with the '06.

I would rather take a beating than shoot a 7mm mag...

+1 on this.


+100 on this.

C H -
I've seen this pic before and still like those rifles. Don't know exactly why but just never bought one. I actually like that Ruger AW stock better than other brand's tupperware.

Per another post of URs, I feel like the 7 RM is more practical than the 300 or 338. At the same time I can't bring myself to sell/trade my 300.


I'm the same way about my 8 RM. I don't shoot it just to shoot. I have many options to use for rifle practice that are more ECONOMICAL. When I'm going to hunt the 8, I do shoot it enuff to acclimate my self to it weight and recoil.

..... .....

It's amazing how different people have 'different' attitudes and opinions towards stocks, cartridges, scopes, Ford/Chevy.

I'm not here to argue w/you. I have the SAME feeling toward a few cartridges that many around here love. There are some rifles/cartridges I have absolutely NO USE for and would not BUY nor keep if given to me.

As to the 7 RM, maybe it was 'advertising $$' but Kurt Darner 'said' the 7 was his favorite mule deer cartridge. Maybe true, maybe no.

After my experience w/a 77 -338 WM, for a while I 'said' I'd NEVER have another 338. I did figure out that it was the sorry stock 'fit' and absence of recoil pad that made the difference.

The 7 RM is ONE cartridge that is in the top % of FEW that I'd consider to be the ONE rifle-cartridges combo for myself.

Have a Good Day

Jerry

The only reason the 7 mag is overrated is because the 270 does the exact same thing on 10 grains less of powder.

With that said my father in law Killed his last 11 elk with a 220 swift. Kind of makes a lot of rounds seem like more than you really need.







Shod

Yeah..... I see .270s run 160s at 3k with 55 grains of powder all the time.... laffin. I bet your F-150 can pull a 14 yard dump trailer at 75mph over Vail Pass too.... and get 25mpg to boot.

I'd rather get the frank and beans stuck in a zipper.... than hunt with a .300 Bee.

In my 300 wby I can shoot 130gr TTSX at warp speed for super flat mpbr point and drt as well as the 215/230bergers and everything in between. Guys like the 257 wby with the 100gr TTSX, well the 300 wby with the 130 TTSX is all that and a bag of chips more. If you can shoot the 300, and mine is an accumark, the stock fits me perfect and the gun has some weight, then there is nothing a 7rm can do better than a 300 wby. I go from 6.5 to .30. I have had lots of 7mm in the past but see no need for them with 6.5s and 30s in the safe. Some guys say the 7mm splits the difference but I'd rather have a low recoiling 6.5 and a 30 with horsepower than a 7mm rm.

For years, I had two 7mm Rem mags, both were 'almost MOA' rifles- that's being kind. Best load I ever came up with was a Barnes 160 gr. TSX, MV around 2900 fps. Killed stuff okay, I guess, but I was never happy with the accuracy, and both went down the road.

My .300 Weatherby is a sub-MOA shooter, and with 165 gr. Barnes TSX bullets, gives me 3390 fps MV. With a McMillan Edge stock and Pachmayr Decellerator pad, recoil is very manageable, for me at least. I have no problem shooting it accurately. The near-400 fps velocity advantage, with bullets of similar weight and BC, makes longer distance shooting much easier, especially if you are seriously considering trying '450-500 yard' shots.

So- practically speaking, is there anything a 300 WBY can do that a 7 Rem. can't? If all you are hunting is deer, antelope, and elk, the answer is no. If, however, large bears, large moose, and large African plains game are ever in your plans, the balance tips in favor of the fast .30 calibers. Does the .300 have more recoil? Of course it does. Simple physics. That said, the only rifle/scope combo that ever cut me was one of those 7mms.

I own a number of sub-.30 calibers, all of which are capable of handling most big game animals in NA, and elsewhere. But there will always be a place in my arsenal for the .300 Wby. When the opportunity arises to hunt for big bull elk, it's the first one out of the safe.

Shod -

I'm in camp w/dogshooter.

The 270 can NOT match the 7 RM.

I have & like/use both.

The 270 and the 7mm mag are not in the same category.

I find that response somewhat surprising because it seems the 270 and 7 mag are much closer in comparison than a 7 mag and a 300 weatherby mag?

I don't own a magnum of any caliber but if I ever do I don't consider 10 grains of bullet and 100 fps to be not in the same catagory or a categorical step up.

The only magic thing about the 7 mag is that it comes in 7mm and that 7mm number is a very good number to have if one is interested in long range pursuits.

My personal 7 mm preference would be the 7mm Mashburn and though I don't have one I've followed a fella that goes by the name BobinNH threads very closely.

Bobins words on the Mashburn truely have me intrigued and I am very close to taking a step up to a cartrage that truely is in an entirely different catagory than the venerable 270.







Shod

7 Mag can match the .300 Bee in Warp speed Barnes (120 vs. 130).... and it can match it in external ballistics (.620+ BC at 3k). It does it with WAY less powder and recoil. It gives up some horsepower.... but it's far easier to keep on the road.

The .270 can almost match the 7 mag in warp speed Barnes.... (110 vs 120)..... but can't even sniff a 160 grain, .550-.650 BC bullet at 3000-3100 fps...

The only thing .30's do better than 7's.... is recoil.

ds -

Not quite. the 7s can't shoot 200-220 in the same category and some not at all.

Try to find a 200 NP in 7mm.

Try to find a 220 in 7mm.

My 300 wby shoots the 130 TTSX at 3714fps average. My 7mm rm never got past 3400fps with the 120s. How are you matching the 300 for warpspeed?

External.... not Terminal.... hence the horsepower reference. Pretty sure a 175-180 7mm pill would be awful hard to stop though... and a critter would be hard pressed to know the difference between .30/220 and .284/180...

Try to find a chick that'll shoot a .300 Bee more than once.... I've had a dozen ladies run the 7 Mag with 162s.... hence the keeping said horsepower on the road reference.

At 26"-28", a foot and a half of freebore, and 75k psi... visa vis Weatherby GangNam Style... and a 7 Rem will easily go 3600 with 120s...

With the new high BC 270 bullets one is very close to classifying the 270 and 7 mag with your same classification of the 7 mag and 30s.

The only thing 30s do better than 7s is recoil.

The only thing 7s do better than 270s is recoil.

With some of the new 270 bullets available it is sniffing at the door of the 7 mag to the tune of 20 to 30% less recoil.

If I decide to get into long range hunting and I am considering it I will be going a different route than the 7 mag for a number of reasons. The first reason is I've already dabbled in long range pursuits with a Custom 280 AI and though the 7 mag does offer more IMO it doesn't offer enouph more to warrant getting one over the 280 AI.

In retrospect I've found myself wishing I'd paid more attention to Bobins words on the Mashburn. It offers a realistic 300 fps over a 270 while at the same time has properties that seem to lend itself to easily attained low ES numbers. Something that I believe the 7 mag is not noted for giving up as easily








Shod

Check the Barnes manual. No voodoo in getting 3700 with the 130 from a 26" barrel. Their loads are almost 3700 with 24" barrels. 7mm on the other hand doesn't make 3400fps according to Barnes. If your getting 3600fps its not me using voodoo to get my speeds.

Voodoo is simply how you do what you do....

I've seen 3600 outta 120 NBTs and TSX, in a handful of 7s... Rem and Bee. If you have a number in mind, you'll find a way to get there.

Shod....

We've already seen the High BCs of these new .270 bullets be debunked... and the truth is more like .475 tops if you've got a 1:10". That still ain't shabby... and the difference is what it is. I'm with you in the 7s that are a step down from the Rem/Bee.... .284ish is a nice place to be.

If I need bigger than a .243/.260, I'm going to a Seven of some ilk. If I'm going bigger than that.... it's all the way to .375.

No.

Extra points awarded for brevity.

David

gee.....thanks.

Reader's Digest version for the attention deficit victims....It isn't a hard question.

This^^^^^

The .270 and 7mm are the Weatherby chamberings that interest me. My tastes in .300 top out with the WSM. By your own statement you have not needed it.

If it were mine I would sell it and use the money toward a hunting trip.

I left my 7 in the safe the last 2 years to carry the 300 Weatherby. It shoots just about as well as the 7 but my 7 got about 3050 FPS with 150's and the 300 gets close to 3200 FPS with a 180 grain bullet.

The extra oomph at 3 or 400 yards is nice to have if you hunt close to the public private boundary. Recoil is grater but manageable - it hammers steel targets at 700 yards so I'm happy with the accuracy. If it fails to impress it will take it's turn in the safe but I love carrying a beat up vanguard that doesn't make me wince with new scratches and nicks.

Only owned 1 300 WM and liked it. Only 7mm is my current 7-08 that I'm waiting on components for.

That said - I suspect that the difference between the two is similar to what I found about the step from 30-06 to 300wm.

If I need to move up, 300 wm isn't really enough. If the -06 REALLY isn't enough, I'm probably in 338/375 territory.

I can't imagine a place where the 7mm isn't enough but the 300 is - terminal wise. There might be reasons why you'd want one over the other (162 AMax being one of them) but I doubt it's critical.

Using the phrase "practically speaking" in a rifle discussion is akin to using "fat-free" in a bratwurst discussion.

I thought a lot of the 7 mag until I bought a chronograph. On paper 160's at 3000 fps looks good. Most factory loads were just over 2900 fps and I had to really push the envelope to actually get 3000 fps with hand loads from a 24" barrel, then accuracy wasn't acceptable. About 2950 was as fast as I could push 160's and still get acceptable accuracy.

On the other hand I can easily get 3000-3050 fps with 150's from my 22" 30-06 and 2900+ a bit with 165's with very good accuracy. I found it pretty easy to reach 3000 fps with 180's from a 300 WSM with very little more recoil than 7 mag.

Never owned a 270, but 2950fps is not unreasonable with 150's. I just don't see 7 mag as being that much better.

To be honest the 300 WBY is more gun than I'd want, but 7 mag doesn't impress me either. I'd sell both and get a 270, 280, 30-06, or at most a 300 WSM.

methinks you are basing your conclusions on the results from one 7Mag...bad idea

I totally agree^^^^^



JMR - I don't remember exactly how many 7 RM I've had but several plus 2 that friends had.

I/we could get 3100 fps with 160s w/o dangers.

MAYBE you had a slow barrell? I've seen 1 of those a friend had, a popular brand, SLOW, wouldn't beat a 270 W.

MAYBE you had a slow lot of powder? That happens frequently.

Maybe some other problem. I guarantee you, your results are not typical..

Jerry

Had 2-7mm Rem mags and could not approach what you are getting with the 160's,2900+ was about the tops. The rifles had 24" barrels.

Still killed whatever I shot with them,but would've liked a bit more "oomph."

A 7 Rem Mag loaded to full potential is a solid step up over a 270 or 280.

The 300 Weatherby is clearly the more powerful of the two and should be.It moves 200 gr bullets at almost 3100, 180 gr.'s at app 3200,burns over 80 gr of powder to do this stuff,kicks like a mule while still being manageable for some;unmanageable for others. Rifles are generally heavier. It's a wonderful killing cartridge and should be classed with the mediums like the 338;not with anything smaller IMO.

The 7 Rem Mag was "invented" because a seasoned Wyoming outfitter observed that many of his client/hunters did not shoot a 300 Weatherby very well or very precisely due to excessive recoil.So he necked down a 338 Win Mag to 7mm, and came up with a cartridge that hits like a 30/06 and has a flatter trajectory than a 270 or 280 or 30/06 .A 7 Rem Mag is a solid step down from a 300 Weatherby in recoil.People shot it well and killed stuff.



None of this was the question; the OP knows what he's doing and what his rifles deliver for velocities.By "leaving anything on the table" I assume he means..." can he kill the game he listed cleanly and quickly with a 7 Rem Mag to the distances he stated?"

IMHO the answer is "yes".

Does he "need" the 300? I dunno. Probably not.

I'm going to derail this thread by pointing out that the 300 Winchester Magnum seems to be far more poplar as an all-arounder in Alaska than either of the rounds in question.

Klik: That's understandable. The 300 Win Mag is a no brainer.

EHNM -

I'm digging thru my chrono notes,and 2 loading books at the time I'm posting this..so bear with me..........

NOTE -- this data was obtained in the 1980s -

My chrono notes: all 160s & N Ps.

Rem 700 Classic 24" bll.

IMR 4350 - 64 grs - WW brass WW primers---3120 fps ACCURATE
IMR 4831 -66.5 G - WW brass WW primers---3162 fps

Friends B B R - 24" bll.

IMR 4831 - 67 grs. Rem Mag Pr, 3129 fps.
IMR 4350 - 65 grs.-------------3135 fps.

***I have WAY too many records to go thru all: I did NOT pick out the 'highest' for this post.***

ALSO NOTE - long case life. UP TO 10 firings at least.

BOB HAGEL - P 190 "Game Loads & Practical B.... ....
( I KNOW -spare me the lectures <GRIN> )

N 205 - 68 grs --3150
IMR 4831 68 grs - 3145
H 4831 69 hrs --3115

H 870 --80 hrs - 3134 * H 870 did not do this well for me.*

Sorry I've run out of time NOW, will check more later.

I/WE never had any problems with the loads we SHOT.

Jerry

I can't speak to the 30, as the only one that I own is a .308.

I easily get 3000+ fps with my 26-inch 7 mags and 160 parts. My go-to load is Re 25 for 3004 fps. This is not a hot load. A moderate load of Re33 gets over 100 fps more velocity. No elk that I have shot ever needed that extra 100+ fps. The recoil is just not bad at all with a 7 and it smucks elk, deer etc.

Rel 22 will also get the 3100+ velocities Jerry is getting.

Well.... I was really expecting a schelacking (sp) for over pressure loads.

All I can say is I/we shot these loads out of several 7 mm mags.
1 700 Classic 1 BBR 3 700 BDL 1 700 Synthetic 1 Savage 110 C
and at least a few more I can't recall.

Primer pockets stayed tight, no hard bolt lift, no brass extrusion nor scraping on bolt face. NOT 1 blown primer.


I ain't selling the info, I'm not recommending as a STARTING load but I've shot these enuff I'm not afraid of them in the least IN MY RIFLES.

As Always...approach w/caution, ladder test, etc.


3100 fps is doable in 7 mm RM with 160 NPs.

So the plot thickens...

My 7mm Rem Mag shoots a 160 NAB at 3000 ft/sec. My .30-06 shoots a 180 Partition at 2800 ft/sec. The NAB generates 183 more ft/lbs at 400 yards than does the Partition. At 650 yards (waaaaay farther than I will shoot) the difference is 207 ft/lbs.

The question becomes, practically speaking, is there anything a 7mm Rem Mag can do that a .30-06 can't?



P

P -

How does trajectory compare? W/O checking I think the 7 will be noticeably flatter shooting.

CDS scope, don't care about trajectory.



P

P

Don't you have to know how much to adjust ?

THNX A G W !!

AFAIK Rl 22 wasn't available in the 80s. N 205 (MRP) was so still applicable.

Jerry

Sure, but that's what a range card is for. Dialing 8 clicks or 12 clicks, no difference.



P

P,
They cover similar ground for similar purposes.
At usual hunting ranges, not a lot in it. (That is obvious)
At longer ranges, perhaps the trajectory of the 7 may be an advantage for some who know how to use it.
For over sized or potentially aggressive game, the larger heavier bullets in .30 cal may offer more "comfort".

For the rest of us, the rifle is more important because we need to like to hold it, carry it and shoot it.
John

Take a look at these 7mm RM loads. Often maximum and near maximum loads aren't the most accurate.

7mm RM 160 gr. loads

All this comparing of .270 Win, 7mm RM, .30-06,.300 Wtby, etc. seems kind of pointless. You could go around and around until you drove yourself crazy.

postoak -

Yes and we can even have accurate 'reduced loads'. Less than max loads for accuracy is not a blanket rule.

There are many here on the 'fire' that have posted many times that as you near max, the accuracy gets better.

That's not true for every powder, or bullet, or rifle but it show up frequently.

Jerry

Wind makes a difference though. 7mm wins on that one.

Never got those speeds with IMR-4831 and 160 gr NP. I used CCI-250 mag primers,but used what you used. Don't remember the powder charge for IMR-4831. Probably in the same ball park.

EHNM -

I don't know what to say or tell you. I got it in at least 2 diff 24" blls and 'that' friend lives in La. plus Hagel listed it too.

Another friend bought a brand NEW 77 tanger in 7 RM. LONG story/short (I'd be glad to go thru details but not now.) THAT rifle NEVER beat the vel of 270 W.

We swapped powder lots, brass, primers, everything we could think of but nothing helped it. He took it to a gun show, IIRC.

I know that you know:
diff. chambers - bores - powder lots - primers- maybe even bullet lots. I don't know either ? ? ? ?

BTW - the chrono was Oehler 33, 10' space (midway of screens)

Jerry

My T3 7mm Rem Mag gets 2997 with 160 NAB and 72 grains of MagPro.



P

You won't notice the difference between the '06 and 7 Mag in the hunting fields.

I get 3400 fps with 140 gr Nos Bal tip moly and 70 gr H4350 in 7mmRemMag.

I think in the hands of the average hunter, that fires 100 long range practices shots a year, with a 10 pound rifle, this is his best chance of getting enough power into the kill zone at 500 yards.

I think in the hands of a super hunter, that fires 1000 long range practice shots a year, with a 12 pound rifle, a 300WBY mag with heavy boat tail bullet is the best chance of getting enough power into the kill zone at 800 yards.

Forget the energy figures.They are comparable cartridges.

A 160 gr bullet at 3000 fps from a 7 Rem Mag is one of those universal go anywhere-do anything BG loads,just like a 180 gr from a 30/06.You can use either one on anything from antelope to moose and elk. I'd shoot a grizzly with either one.

I think you'd see a bigger difference on animals based on the bullet construction than any real difference between the loads themselves.Personally I'd choose "tough" in bullet construction over "splash" but that's just me.

I have a Ruger tang safety 77 in 7 mag. 3000 with a 160 is easy to get without leaning on it hard.

A B S O L U T E L Y, freaking, TRUE.

That last 100 fps shows little advantage- IF any - anywhere!

Jerry

Correctamundo ! Bob you are right AGAIN. (?) How'd that happen ?







couldn't have been because of, let's say, experience!

Jerry

Jerry,
When I got to 3000 my rifle shot the load sub MOA, I called it good right there.

I decided to work up a lower velocity load with a 150 for the short range deer hunting I do. Nosler's starting load with H4831 gave groups that averaged .8". I need to chronograph it just to see where its at but it will do fine on 50 yard woods shot or 300 yards across the clear cut

Will a Chevy Corvette Z06 do anything my Ford Focus won’t do?

Of course it will. It will put a much bigger dent in my wallet, suck a lot more fuel, take up more space in the garage and cost a lot more to maintain and insure. I commute over an hour one way to work. Would the ‘vette get me there any faster or more surely? Not legally, which is to say “No”, but it might be more fun to drive.

Whether this cartridge or that can do something another cartridge cannot kind of misses the point unless you need to do that specific thing. And then there is generally a price to pay for the enhanced performance, either in a heavier rifle to keep recoil down or in extra recoil. And that extra recoil, like it or not, puts the shooter that much closer to shoulder injury and detached retinas. My .338WM, .300WM, .30-06s and 7mm RM all get the job done reliably but the .30-06s and 7mm RM go hunting more often. This year I plan to use a .280 Rem for my elk hunt and am confident that if I do my part the outcome will be as desired.

Daughter #1 plans to go on her first elk hunt this year. She doesn’t have the shooting skill to take long shots and thus will be limited to about 300 yards. She purchased a .308 Win for the task, in large part because she is recoil sensitive. A .300 WM or WBY would shoot the same bullets faster and flatter and deliver more energy downrange but they would not serve her as well as the .308 Win for the task at hand.

If the hammer you have is big enough, you don’t need a bigger hammer.

Don't worry about it Jwall,it still killed whatever I hit.

B R H - Very Good.

I'd probably do similarly today if I were developing loads for the 7 RM.

OTOH - in the 80s I/we were looking for 'accuracy' with EVERY LAST fps we could get.

That actually was caused by 'magazine articles' & books. Shall we say, "Gunwriters" ? ....

I'm making light BUT it is actually TRUE.
I don't remember a single article that didn't encourage getting the most vel with the best accuracy.

Things have changed some in 30 odd yrs. I still CAN'T bring myself to 'get by' with pedantic velocity (speed). Believe it or not HI VEL does accomplish 3 positive things (at least). Now I have to get off this slick slide.

Jerry

'WHENever you hit?' <G>

Another related TRUE story. Somewhere between 80-90 I bought 2 boxes of NEW Norma 270 Win brass. Yes Norma.

Just for kicks I chronoed the loads, same load I'd been using for yrs.,...OH MY! 200 fps LESS!

Well I ran round & round as in a Silo.... I finally figured out (fact) that brass lost those 200 fps ? ?

2 boxes of NEW brass in the CAN, trash that is!!

Jerry

Biggest bull elk I ever saw was shot by a tiny woman with a 243 at 200 yards. She said 270s kick too hard.

As to the header? More recoil..

I shoot a lot with both my 7mm RM and .300 Win. Mag off the bench and the 7 has a fun factor that is lacking in the .300. BUT for elk, I am going to grab the .300. I think everything I said would be even more true of the .300 Wtby.

I used to do exactly the same thing.....mostly.

Me too..Used to

270 maxed out with 140 NAB's is closer to a 7RM with 160's than one might think. At 500, the 7 RM has 3" less drop, 2" less drift, 100 FPS faster, and an additional 335 FPE, for whatever that's worth. I have a feeling only the chamber really knows the difference.

And of course, the experts.........

No experts here

Ballistic improvements come grudgingly. In a crowded field with bullets separated by a few grains,velocities by 100-300 fps,it's easy to look at tables and say not much difference.

It's often been said that the difference between some standard and magnum cases in a given caliber is 50, maybe 100 yards.

More importantly maybe,if we figure bullet expansion requires,say, 1900 fps,we see the 7 Rem Mag with a 160 AB will stay above that threshold to 700 yards,while the 270-140 AB example is all done at 600 (rough figures but you get my drift).

Feed the 7 Rem Mag something like a 162 Amax (some Bergers?),and we're still above 1900 fps at 800 yards.Those high BC boys know whereof they speak when it comes to stretching things out.

Not factored in is the generally faster twist of the 7mm barrels,coupled with higher velocity,both of which contribute to bullet expansion.But the tables won't tell us that.

In real life, I've fired enough (say) Bitterrots weighing 130,140,160,165 grains from various standard and magnum cases to say that the magnum cases expand those bullets better at 300 yards and beyond. This is definitely the case comparing the 270,280 and 7 Rem mag;and the 300 Win Mag vs the 30/06.

Even if we don't shoot beyond 500-600 yards,the advantage is there whether we need it or not.

There are solid reasons that 7mm magnums are pretty popular LR elk cartridges.It's mechanics as much as anything else.The faster a bullet is going when it hits something, the more it's going to expand

Yes, but the extra punch from the .300 is largely wasted energy until you get into the big or bad stuff.

Jack

Yup. I'll admit here on the fire that I do miss,quite often.


With the Norma brass,I would've added more powder till it equaled the other load.

Surely, but the wrong bullet in the right rifle is still wrong. Either way, in the OP's case, I say shoot what you like, like what you shoot. If you've got a pile of components, and like shooting rig "A", there's little doubt you'll suffer.

Whichever rig "A" is....

Not being sarcastic: That's what I've been expecting someone to say.

PROBLEM - 62 grs Surplus 4831 = NO ROOM for any more powder, full case, compressed load.

Those cases WERE the problem, don't know how- if they were thinner, weighing less, there should have been more room, there wasn't.


Just 1 of those things. Stuff happens; I wouldn't have had any idea IF I had not chronoed those loads. I didn't have any suspicions, just chronoed "just cause".

Jerry

Of course!

And, let's not forget that you can load a 175 gr bullet in the 7 Rem Mag to within 50-75 fps or so of the velocity of that 140 gr in the 270 (2900-2950 fps or so).

This will hold true pretty much across the caliber spectrum of magnum cases vs standard.

Advantage? Some think so;especially on heavy game and as distances increase.

Last year I lost my first big game animal, a cow elk I shot at 400 yards with my 7mm RM and a 165g North Fork SS.

The problem wasn't the cartridge, the rifle or the bullet. The blood trail started out as the largest I have ever seen with several thick ribbons of black blood a good 2 to 2-1/2 feet long and about 3" wide. Evidence from brush along the trail showed I hit it high, below the spine, with an exit. The color of the blood suggested a liver hit, further back than intended. The blood trail kept getting less and less and in the end I was tying orange flags at every tiny drop we could find, maybe every 30 -40 feet or so. While we initially expected to find the cow down behind the next bush, then the next and so on, it went over two ridges and escaped to private land.

Is there some larger, more powerful cartridge, but still smaller than a 105mm howitzer round, that would have increased the damage done and resulted in a recovery of the elk? Would a .300WBY have done the job? Perhaps, but I have my doubts. Maybe a .338, 9.3 or .375 of some flavor? Maybe a .416, .458 or .577?

Unfortunately no one can ever know. What I do know is the 7mm RM performed flawlessly for 30+ years and has taken more elk than all my other rifles combined. Better placement would have resulted the same straight-down results the 7mm RM produced many times before and many other placements would have resulted in a recovery at some distance. In any case, I don't blame the 7mm RM and have enough confidence in the North Fork bullets that this year I'll be using a 140g NF SS in my .280 Rem.

C H -

It's a sickening feeling no matter how many Xs you re-live it.
I certainly don't like it but it happens IF you hunt long enuff and shoot enuff animals. STUFF happens.

I agree with your assessment. "The problem wasn't the cartridge, the rifle, or the bullet."

ONCE - I had a bullet deflected >>> horrible story. Many yrs. ago. I remember every detail.

I had a friend who hit a deer in the nose....found its tongue! He hasn't forgotten either. ( I wasn't with him and don't know why/how)

Jerry

Did you try a different powder?

EHNM -

"Did you try a different powder?"

Seriously, why?

Those same components produced 3100 +fps in OTHER brass.
I actually used those same lots of powder/primer/bullets in other brass and BINGO.


Seemed conclusive to me - THAT brass was funky.

Tell me what/why other powder would have done better.

I'm not being sarcastic/hateful or humorous.

Jerry

And that's why I have a .300 Wby. I also have a 7mm rem. too. Each has a different purpose. I'm not really into the long range thing for its own sake but I do trust my .300 will do its part if I do mine close or far. It's noticably more effect on larger game.

I think that's true.

But what I notice is that a properly applied bullet from either one, puts animals under the knife.


For the record...two of the fastest kills I've seen on 6x6 bull elk,were with a 7 Rem Mag and 160 gr Nosler Partitions. One at over 500 yards.

I suppose I have commented on this before.. My choice would be the .300.. Heavier bullets and more punch.. But there are no flies on the big 7's either.. Have a Rem. and a 700 with a 7mm Wea. barrel on it.. Have killed alot of game with both, but I still like the .30's best.. The 7mm Rem. was my late wife's big game rifle for the last 15 years she hunted.. She made some awesome shots with it simply because it shoots flat, and hits hard.. I guess it is pure personal choice..

This is sorta why I went with the 7mm Mashburn Super. Splits the difference between the 7mm Rem and 300 Wby. The Mashburn runs 160's at 3200 (similar to 180's at 3200 from our Weatherby) and 175's at 3050-3075 (similar to the 200's at 3050 from the 300 Weatherby). So far the Mashburn has been really easy to shoot in a 8.5lb rifle, where as the 300 Wby wouldn't be comfortable without the brake on it, for me.

I like them all, but as someone keeps telling me, I don't need the 300's since I have the Mashburn.. They are probably right, but I am hard headed sometimes..

Let's think about this for a second.... You don't need a 300 magnum because you have a 7mm mashburn and a damn good 338 win mag.... The 300 is like a 3rd wheel in your case....

nothing it can do that a 7mm 175 gr Partition can't do just as well