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Joined: Jul 2010
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Yes, but the extra punch from the .300 is largely wasted energy until you get into the big or bad stuff.
Jack
"Do not blame Caesar, blame the people...who have...rejoiced in their loss of freedom....Blame the people who hail him when he speaks of the 'new, wonderful, good, society'...to mean ,..living fatly at the expense of the industrious." Cicero
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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Don't worry about it Jwall,it still killed whatever I hit. 'WHENever you hit?' <G> Another related TRUE story. Somewhere between 80-90 I bought 2 boxes of NEW Norma 270 Win brass. Yes Norma. Just for kicks I chronoed the loads, same load I'd been using for yrs.,...OH MY! 200 fps LESS! Well I ran round & round as in a Silo.... I finally figured out (fact) that brass lost those 200 fps ? ? 2 boxes of NEW brass in the CAN, trash that is!! Jerry Yup. I'll admit here on the fire that I do miss,quite often. With the Norma brass,I would've added more powder till it equaled the other load.
Life Member SCI Life Member DSC Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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Joined: Feb 2010
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2010
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270 maxed out with 140 NAB's is closer to a 7RM with 160's than one might think. At 500, the 7 RM has 3" less drop, 2" less drift, 100 FPS faster, and an additional 335 FPE, for whatever that's worth. I have a feeling only the chamber really knows the difference.
And of course, the experts......... No experts here Ballistic improvements come grudgingly. In a crowded field with bullets separated by a few grains,velocities by 100-300 fps,it's easy to look at tables and say not much difference. It's often been said that the difference between some standard and magnum cases in a given caliber is 50, maybe 100 yards. More importantly maybe,if we figure bullet expansion requires,say, 1900 fps,we see the 7 Rem Mag with a 160 AB will stay above that threshold to 700 yards,while the 270-140 AB example is all done at 600 (rough figures but you get my drift). Feed the 7 Rem Mag something like a 162 Amax (some Bergers?),and we're still above 1900 fps at 800 yards.Those high BC boys know whereof they speak when it comes to stretching things out. Not factored in is the generally faster twist of the 7mm barrels,coupled with higher velocity,both of which contribute to bullet expansion.But the tables won't tell us that. In real life, I've fired enough (say) Bitterrots weighing 130,140,160,165 grains from various standard and magnum cases to say that the magnum cases expand those bullets better at 300 yards and beyond. This is definitely the case comparing the 270,280 and 7 Rem mag;and the 300 Win Mag vs the 30/06. Even if we don't shoot beyond 500-600 yards,the advantage is there whether we need it or not. There are solid reasons that 7mm magnums are pretty popular LR elk cartridges.It's mechanics as much as anything else.The faster a bullet is going when it hits something, the more it's going to expand Surely, but the wrong bullet in the right rifle is still wrong. Either way, in the OP's case, I say shoot what you like, like what you shoot. If you've got a pile of components, and like shooting rig "A", there's little doubt you'll suffer. Whichever rig "A" is....
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Joined: Sep 2010
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2010
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Well I ran round & round as in a Silo.... I finally figured out (fact) that brass lost those 200 fps ? ? 2 boxes of NEW brass in the CAN, trash that is!! Yup. I'll admit here on the fire that I do miss,quite often. With the Norma brass,I would've added more powder till it equaled the other load. Not being sarcastic: That's what I've been expecting someone to say. PROBLEM - 62 grs Surplus 4831 = NO ROOM for any more powder, full case, compressed load. Those cases WERE the problem, don't know how- if they were thinner, weighing less, there should have been more room, there wasn't. Just 1 of those things. Stuff happens; I wouldn't have had any idea IF I had not chronoed those loads. I didn't have any suspicions, just chronoed "just cause". Jerry
jwall- *** 3100 guy***
A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap
Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
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Of course! And, let's not forget that you can load a 175 gr bullet in the 7 Rem Mag to within 50-75 fps or so of the velocity of that 140 gr in the 270 (2900-2950 fps or so). This will hold true pretty much across the caliber spectrum of magnum cases vs standard. Advantage? Some think so;especially on heavy game and as distances increase.
Last edited by BobinNH; 08/26/15.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Last year I lost my first big game animal, a cow elk I shot at 400 yards with my 7mm RM and a 165g North Fork SS.
The problem wasn't the cartridge, the rifle or the bullet. The blood trail started out as the largest I have ever seen with several thick ribbons of black blood a good 2 to 2-1/2 feet long and about 3" wide. Evidence from brush along the trail showed I hit it high, below the spine, with an exit. The color of the blood suggested a liver hit, further back than intended. The blood trail kept getting less and less and in the end I was tying orange flags at every tiny drop we could find, maybe every 30 -40 feet or so. While we initially expected to find the cow down behind the next bush, then the next and so on, it went over two ridges and escaped to private land.
Is there some larger, more powerful cartridge, but still smaller than a 105mm howitzer round, that would have increased the damage done and resulted in a recovery of the elk? Would a .300WBY have done the job? Perhaps, but I have my doubts. Maybe a .338, 9.3 or .375 of some flavor? Maybe a .416, .458 or .577?
Unfortunately no one can ever know. What I do know is the 7mm RM performed flawlessly for 30+ years and has taken more elk than all my other rifles combined. Better placement would have resulted the same straight-down results the 7mm RM produced many times before and many other placements would have resulted in a recovery at some distance. In any case, I don't blame the 7mm RM and have enough confidence in the North Fork bullets that this year I'll be using a 140g NF SS in my .280 Rem.
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.
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Joined: Sep 2010
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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C H -
It's a sickening feeling no matter how many Xs you re-live it. I certainly don't like it but it happens IF you hunt long enuff and shoot enuff animals. STUFF happens.
I agree with your assessment. "The problem wasn't the cartridge, the rifle, or the bullet."
ONCE - I had a bullet deflected >>> horrible story. Many yrs. ago. I remember every detail.
I had a friend who hit a deer in the nose....found its tongue! He hasn't forgotten either. ( I wasn't with him and don't know why/how)
Jerry
jwall- *** 3100 guy***
A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap
Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Aug 2009
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Well I ran round & round as in a Silo.... I finally figured out (fact) that brass lost those 200 fps ? ? 2 boxes of NEW brass in the CAN, trash that is!! Yup. I'll admit here on the fire that I do miss,quite often. With the Norma brass,I would've added more powder till it equaled the other load. Not being sarcastic: That's what I've been expecting someone to say. PROBLEM - 62 grs Surplus 4831 = NO ROOM for any more powder, full case, compressed load. Those cases WERE the problem, don't know how- if they were thinner, weighing less, there should have been more room, there wasn't. Just 1 of those things. Stuff happens; I wouldn't have had any idea IF I had not chronoed those loads. I didn't have any suspicions, just chronoed "just cause". Jerry Did you try a different powder?
Life Member SCI Life Member DSC Member New Mexico Shooting Sports Association
Take your responsibilities seriously, never yourself-Ken Howell Proper bullet placement + sufficient penetration = quick, clean kill. Finn Aagard
Ken
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Joined: Sep 2010
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2010
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EHNM -
"Did you try a different powder?"
Seriously, why?
Those same components produced 3100 +fps in OTHER brass. I actually used those same lots of powder/primer/bullets in other brass and BINGO.
Seemed conclusive to me - THAT brass was funky.
Tell me what/why other powder would have done better.
I'm not being sarcastic/hateful or humorous.
Jerry
jwall- *** 3100 guy***
A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap
Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
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Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
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Yes, but the extra punch from the .300 is largely wasted energy until you get into the big or bad stuff.
Jack And that's why I have a .300 Wby. I also have a 7mm rem. too. Each has a different purpose. I'm not really into the long range thing for its own sake but I do trust my .300 will do its part if I do mine close or far. It's noticably more effect on larger game.
Diplomacy is the art of saying "Nice doggie" until you can find a rock. Will Rogers
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Joined: Jan 2007
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900 |
Yes, but the extra punch from the .300 is largely wasted energy until you get into the big or bad stuff.
Jack ....... It's noticably more effect on larger game. I think that's true. But what I notice is that a properly applied bullet from either one, puts animals under the knife. For the record...two of the fastest kills I've seen on 6x6 bull elk,were with a 7 Rem Mag and 160 gr Nosler Partitions. One at over 500 yards.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I suppose I have commented on this before.. My choice would be the .300.. Heavier bullets and more punch.. But there are no flies on the big 7's either.. Have a Rem. and a 700 with a 7mm Wea. barrel on it.. Have killed alot of game with both, but I still like the .30's best.. The 7mm Rem. was my late wife's big game rifle for the last 15 years she hunted.. She made some awesome shots with it simply because it shoots flat, and hits hard.. I guess it is pure personal choice..
Molon Labe
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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This is sorta why I went with the 7mm Mashburn Super. Splits the difference between the 7mm Rem and 300 Wby. The Mashburn runs 160's at 3200 (similar to 180's at 3200 from our Weatherby) and 175's at 3050-3075 (similar to the 200's at 3050 from the 300 Weatherby). So far the Mashburn has been really easy to shoot in a 8.5lb rifle, where as the 300 Wby wouldn't be comfortable without the brake on it, for me. I like them all, but as someone keeps telling me, I don't need the 300's since I have the Mashburn.. They are probably right, but I am hard headed sometimes..
Semper Fi
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2010
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This is sorta why I went with the 7mm Mashburn Super. Splits the difference between the 7mm Rem and 300 Wby. The Mashburn runs 160's at 3200 (similar to 180's at 3200 from our Weatherby) and 175's at 3050-3075 (similar to the 200's at 3050 from the 300 Weatherby). So far the Mashburn has been really easy to shoot in a 8.5lb rifle, where as the 300 Wby wouldn't be comfortable without the brake on it, for me. I like them all, but as someone keeps telling me, I don't need the 300's since I have the Mashburn.. They are probably right, but I am hard headed sometimes.. Let's think about this for a second.... You don't need a 300 magnum because you have a 7mm mashburn and a damn good 338 win mag.... The 300 is like a 3rd wheel in your case....
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style. You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole. BSA MAGA
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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nothing it can do that a 7mm 175 gr Partition can't do just as well
A Doe walks out of the woods today and says, that is the last time I'm going to do that for Two Bucks.
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