Why no love for the X-Bolt?

Browning Carbon Fiber Long Range Hunter, 270 WSM

X-bolt works for me


JAPPFT,

GWB

Love my A-bolt 260Rem but had to shed the original stock. The Xbolt seems like it would handle recoil better. The B and C I replaced it with certainly does. I prefer the detach mag system on the a-bolt though plenty seem to bash it.

The most common knock I hear is the bolt innards are too complicated for reliability in extreme conditions. Its materials and design have been called into question in cold, salty, environments. Of course plenty of owners disagree. Some haven't liked the triggers but a new spring took two minutes and mine is perfectly crisp and almost too light. There wasn't a whole lot wrong with it to begin with so I never understood that rap.

I am a big fan of the short bolt throw, tang safety, and smooth cycling. Only thing I don't like on mine is the shiny chrome bolt shroud. Why on earth......

I take it in to the woods more than my Remington or CZ- but would never part with any of them. Topped with a Vx3 it is one easy toting accurate rig.

I just don't like the looks of any of the Japanese Brownings...purely a subjective thing, I know, but I just don't like their looks.

Because they look like douchey junk.
Carbon fiber my a$$. More accurately, carbon fiber COLORED.

I really like my 22-250 X Bolt Varmint Special, only thing I hate is the way they made the magazine. It is short enough that if you try to chase the lands you end up with a 2 shot gun at best and easiest to run it as a single shot.

May be different if I would run a hollow point or a semi point bullet.

Super accurate and operates smoother than glass. Just wish somebody would build an affordable aftermarket trigger.

Its running 5 for 8 in the last 3 weeks on coyotes.

I have never had that much exposure to them. I knew one guy that had one and seemed to like it but frankly to me they never offered anything new or desireable over the established 700s, M70 , Ruger 77 and they were as high or higher in price so I never bought one. I don't dislike them but just don't covet them. Now I had a older safari in270 years ago that I wish I had never traded.

Because Ruger, Remington, Savage, Kimber, Winchester, Howa and Weatherby still make rifles

any more questions?

GWB

I have seen more A-Bolts fail in the field than all other makes and models combined. Several campfire members rifles included.

Hard to get the warm fuzzies for a new model that did not fix any of the old rifle's faults...

You ain't been around here very long?

I don't have any personal experience with one, but a wise old gunsmith who built rifles for guys on here told me he refused to work on them. He worked on everything else.

LOL took the words right out of my keyboard.

In all seriousness, I've always said the list of rifles I wouldn't own is much much shorter then the list of ones I would own. For me, I would gladly own a X-bolt if someone gave one to me. For the money ... Steelhead's quote explains it.

I just sold my 700 bdl and picked up a x-bolt 30.06 hunter. The looks are a bit "modern" but they have a function. The rifle fits like a dream and points like a shotgun. From all accounts, accuracy should be terrific.

Had 3 in the past 2 month with scope base screws jacked up. That's one...aftermarket sucks, and I like to tinker. Trigger design will fail. Too much plastic and over priced plastic magazines.

I just can't get over the metro-sexual styling that Browning seems wedded to these days; all those funny angles. In addition, the x-bolt seems overly complicated to me and I don't like the cutout in the stock for the magazine.

If you've got an x-bolt and like it, don't worry what the other kids think.

I bought one for my daughter a few years ago. I was looking for a compact in left handed 308 and the X-bolt was one of the few options I found...wood blue version. Had the metal cerakoted. It is one of the most accurate rifles in my safe and I have mostly custom barreled rifles. So far it's worked flawlessly.

I like mine. A bit of a weird looking synthetic stock and heavy trigger (adjusted down as light as it will go) but shoots like stink - consistent 3/4MOA from 150gn up to 220gn. It's in 325WSM.

This nothing more than a Ford, Chevy debate but the Browning is the Toyota and we all know how crappy they are...

The Toyota will still be running long after the Ford and Chevy are in the bone yard.

You personally bought three of them in the past 2 months, or do you work in a gun shop?

If you personally bought them yourself, is your forehead bloody?

I agree about the styling. If nothing else, at least the old A-bolt Medallions were a good looking rifle.

Got one in .308 that I've had for several years now. It's lightweight and accurate with a short bolt throw. Shoots 150g Hornady BTSP's into 1" @ 2880 fps. Hogs, deer, coyotes and bobcats didn't complain about being shot with 'gasp' an X-Bolt.

IIRC, that was Mickey C... And, FWIW, I won't work on 'em either...

I've got several, a 25-06, 308, 270, 7WSM. They all shoot great with no out of the box adjustments necessary.

Your inclusion of Salvage in that list speaks volumes.

You forgot Sako, CZ, Tikka, ....

After the Toyota experience I had, you're gonna need a better argument than that.

Might be atypical, like a Tikka that doesn't shoot, but for me it was a financial disaster at the worst possible time.

No I didn't...

There's a horror story out there about every product that has been around long enough but on average Toyota and Miroku make excellent products.

Lol

Have had 4.

They just routinely killed stuff, were accurate as hell with most any bullet you can think of and never gave a minutes trouble.

But I hate 'em anyway.

Miroku makes better than decent shotguns. Most of Brownings other guns I happen to like a great deal, especially the BPS shotguns and the Buckmark pistols. It is not a brand issue with me, nor a Made in Japan issue... it is a ridiculously poorly designed action with a ton of shortcuts. Love the "bedding" with hotmelt glue!

Ditto about Miroku. Whatever blame there may be goes to the Browning designers and "stylists". Gotta wonder what some of them are smoking.

The Miroku-manufactured "Winchesters" are outstanding. Some of the finish choices are a little shiny for my taste, but again, that's on the Browning designers.

I agree completely.

Don't forget the six parts they figger to run the safety..

Well at least Browning hasn't had as many issues with their triggers and safeties as Remington! Not to mention lawsuits.

Nothing like a bunch of questionable metalurgy and excess parts to create the KISS of death for that rifle.

Isn't your biggest beef with working on them the glue between action and barrel?

I've had a lot of them apart. Re-bed most of them, but they all shot fine.

I do the same with other factory bedded rifles. Have bedded a few rifles for friends and never had a customer complain...

LOL...maybe you need to post the photo of you using that Tikka

Would you trust a bad review... or good for that matter... from someone without experience with the particular item?

Is it called an X-bort in Japan?

Damn GW, do you carry an old hog with you everywhere you go?

gEOw

How is the A-Bolt 12 gauge shotgun? Anyone have one?

Ya' busted me! LOL How did you know?


Ya’




Just carry a change of outfit



do a quick wardrobe change



switch em' from front to back



change out rifles



whoda' thunkit!




JAPPFT,


GWB

A whole lotta grunts there!

I can't stand the crooked A$$ squashed pill mentos candy bolt handle knob!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Damn I hate it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [bleep]!

Love it. Po Tay To, Po TOT Oh

geedubya -

You are a quick change artist. <G>


Jerry

I have the X-bolt Stainless Stalker and I really like it. It's fairly light weight, the stock fits me well and I haven't found a load that it doesn't like. I traded a Winchester Extreme Weather for it because I hated the stock on the Winchester and I didn't want to spend the money to re-stock it.

Oh, and welcome to the Campfire Sylvaneous.

Outside of some FTE WSMs, I haven't heard of any problems with the X-bolt. I have heard people postulate that they might have problems but most reviews are very positive. The trigger on mine is adjusted all the way down and is just a touch heavier than I like but it has NO creep. I think that my perception of its weight might be that it doesn't move at all until it breaks.

Can't BS a BSer... I see two different hogs there.

Miroku. Aren't these the same guys that took a 1885 and made it look like a zoot suit?

He qualified it with "on average!"

what?

Been my experience with my XB in -06 too. It shoots pretty much anything I feed it into MOA or better groups.

I have one of the early ones. It shoots lights out. Bit rough with 3" slugs but what isn't?

I'm biased towards a 90 degree bolt throw. Of all the rifles that were less, the Weatherby Mark V felt fine and the X and Abolts were the worst. The 280 Xbolt went down the road for this reason after a very short tenure in my safe.

And to drop a squirt of piss in the truck argument, I've owned a truck from every manufacturer at one time or another except Nissan and Honda(if that thing they sell qualifies). I loved them all, but the one with the least hassle and the most where it matters is the Tundra sitting in my driveway, which has SHAMED all the others.

Some of the B78s and 1885s were built to be modern hunting rifles suitable for scope use and were stocked accordingly. Some were built as traditional pieces for use with irons and actually came with good sights, a rarity these days, crescent buttplates and chambered for old-timey rounds like .38/55, .30/40, .405, and .45/70. They also made a number of BPCR models with Badger barrels and target sights that are as close to being an out-of-the-box competetive rifle as it gets, and at an amazing price. These last are in great demand. None of those were marketed as a reproduction of anything in particular, just excellent single-shot rifles made with modern materials and strong, well finished, and accurate.

I never understood the Browning hate. It seems the stories of them breaking and failing in the field are widely exaggerated or the few cases are spread and repeated by many. *Note that I'm not calling anyone here a liar. I'm sure there are documented cases of browning rifles failing in AK or Canada or Africa or elsewhere, just like any other rifle can fail when it's put through a torture test. They seem to work fine in most places.

I always thought they were great rifles until I joined this forum, but luckily now I know they are crap...... Good thing I haven't told my extended family as they own at least 20 x-bolts and a-bolts between them and have never had a problem. I've personally owned 1 x-bolt and 2 a-bolts and have never had a single issue. Every single one that I've shot or seen shot would group good to very good right out of the box and often with cheap factory ammo.

I don't really care if they are tough to work on or have glue under the action. I don't care if they have a 20 piece bolt or a 6 piece safety. I don't care where they were made. When I spend $700-$1000 on a rifle, I expect to take it and shoot it and kill stuff without having to fix it or modify it or adjust it or bed it or replace half of it. (Note most of them need a little trigger work just like 99% of factory rifles.) I like the short bolt throw. I like the ergonomic lines. Sure they look a little more modern than a classic wood stock 700 or 70, but to me they are just a tool and I like function over form any day. I like the weight. They are a little heavier than a kimber and a lot lighter than a 700.

The best gun purchase I ever made was a stainless 7mm08 x-bolt I bought lightly used on this forum. I paid half the price of a new one, and it took me less than one hour in the loading room and one trip to the range to have 2 loads with 2 proven bullets that both shoot sub moa. One of those loads with 120 ttsx shoots ridiculous little cloverleafs and kills with great authority with so little recoil, I've watched the bullet impact on several longish shots.

In short, I love the x-bolts and don't really care what anyone else thinks.

In short, I love the x-bolts and don't really care what anyone else thinks.

Therein lies the key to true happiness!

Welcome Sylvaneous,

The x bolt is made in japan and those shrimps killed my uncle in WW 2 and started a world war.

That's why I will not buy a gun from them.

Sonsabitches.

Take that you Taco drivers!

And to your point, I had an M-77 with a tool-marked barrel that I replaced with the Browning. So it's a fine rifle except for that, which means not. Or that Kimbers have a lot of shared stories of accuracy problems with the wood stocks, but they're great too I'm told. Well, a rifle is only as good as the one in my hands works. My X-bolt does everything great. I wish the bolt lift was a bit longer so it would be a bit lighter, assuming that would do it. But hunting, when I cycle a round, it is not done daintily. I can do it with the rifle from my shoulder so not really much of a problem.
Sure, I had to get used to the looks. BUT I didn't have to get used to the feel. It handled and shot great. Nice on my shoulder (light) and great to shoot. I wish some shotguns mounted and pointed as well.
So that's why I was wondering why no love for the X-bolt. I know now. Thanks for the comments.
Syl

I understand that. But I haven't ever run into someone who said the same thing about Mausers or Sauer or Blaser. Merkel? I don't hear it. Never heard it and I grew up around guns and shooters and I'm 46 now. Maybe its because our family and a lot of our community is of German decent. Further, my sister is a Jew and she owns her SECOND Volkswagen. No internal conflicts.
The old neighbor who taught me how to fly fish had a son who was shot by 3 bullets from a Japanese machine gunner. Old Peck used, to the end of his deer hunting, a sporterized Arisaka 6.5, I crap you not. (Six point five Jap he called it )

My cousin cuts the hair of a WWII vet from the Pacific. From what he saw fighting the Japanese, he has no sympathy for what happens to anyone in or from that country. But why, when more people from my home town fought the Nazis, many bilingual Polish immigrants or their sons, isn't there the animosity for German weapons? Or German stuff. I don't hear it. H&K? Walther? Sig? Glock? (Hitler was Austrian) Mercedes? Porche? Audi? My Brother in law's father fought in Germany (he recently passed away) He had a Mercedes.

I challenged myself that if I had only admiration for all those products from German companies, I shouldn't feel any different with Japanese. That's how I dealt with it. I think it is a completely natural, human, racist impulse against the Japanese. That's what humans do reflexively. They are the 'other' but certainly with something behind it (aka World War freakin' TWO!) AND the japs haven't had their noses rubbed into it like the Germans or been as openly repentant as a people and government.

If this helps you understand what my process to 'reconciliation' is, I'm glad. I understand and honor your opinion.

I don't believe anyone who built my rifle or my citori had anymore animosity against Americans than any other of our allied democracies.

Savage99 is the forum dumbass. Pay no attention to him, nobody else does

Despite the schitty design of the bolt, 6 piece or whatever it is trigger, glue for bedding and something about the lines being hard to get used to mine shoots decent for a factory rifle with factory loads.

I had a few of the 45 grain Winchester USA hollow points that I was burning up for brass. Handloads consist of a 50 Ballistic Silvertip on top of RL-15 set off by a Federal GM Match primers, same sized groups on average.

It was Mickey. To me, the funny part is Browning rifles are very popular around here. I'm sure you know the guy who comes in to camp with his chest poked out talkin' bout "I shoot a Browning, what about you"? I bet it was a sight when that guy walked in Mickey's shop.

Nothing against Browning in general. I love my 3 1/2" Browning Gold Hunter.

Funny thing is they used to be considered a rich mans gun and now most of their arms are no higher than a lot of the Remington, Ruger and Winnies, Savage too.

Hang around and you'll quit "understanding and honoring" Savage_99's opinions real quick. It won't stop him though unfortunately.

It's been 75 years let it go

So by your opinion we shouldn't buy anything from the Japanese. Should we not buy anything from Germany, Italy, or all of Easter Europe because of WWII? How about the Spaniards for the Spanish-American war? What about England, we have fought a couple wars with them too. How about Mexico, we fought them also. We fought the French so they are out. The Koreans are out and so are the Chinese because they flooded over the border in Korea. Didn't we fight against what would be Canada when we fought the British and the French and the Indians. A large part of southeast Asia is out also. Well the Russians helped the North Vietnamese so we can't go there. I forgot about all the Ottoman lands in WWI that we fought. Since we fought a Civil War should the Mason Dixon line still divide the nation for trade?

Seems like we are left with India, most of south America and Australia. I would call that limiting our options and growth potential.

It seems like you want to be an isolationist. While the idea sounds lovely, like Communism, it does not work in the real world.

According to the guy doing my family tree, Alfred the Great is way up there in the branches somewhere. During his reign, Vikings raided pretty much all over the British Isles, killing, raping, etc.

No lutefisk for me!

And they have a shi++y football team too... 😃

Hey... were vikings. Not Barbarians.

Back to topic...
Of the two new deer rifles I bought - A rem 700 laminate Stainless steel mountain in 7-08..

And xbolt SS in 3006...

The highly regarded remington required warranty work for several issues and still doesn't shoot real well. It has mis-feeding issues where a shell will get caught in the LH side in the hollow of the action. Really irritating while out hunting...

The x-bolt flat out shoots and comes in lighter and ergonomically better than the 700.

I would sell the 700 if I didnt like the looks and the older SS looks better than what you get now. I'm just waiting for it to increase in value before I give it the heave ho because it doesn't come out now the x-bolt arrived.

Of course I could stick a bunch of money in bedding and tweaking the 700 like most guys do or just use my x-bolt..

If my wife decided to deer hunt, I would buy an x-bolt. All the better make rifles seem to be hitting similar price points so the browning expense is getting to be less of an issue.

Sorry Friend, but if you want to convince me you're going to have come up with a better comparison than a 700.😜

Seriously, unlike some here who can't be happy until you see the same light they do, I don't give a ratsass what you prefer. Go forth and be happy.

Bedding on the Xbolt is not hotmelt glue for one thing. Funny how a very complicated design(and that it is) can work 24/7 while the rifle brand most idolized here has to be tweaked so it can shoot and function like it was supposed to when it came out of the factory. I have owned Abolts and X Bolts but no longer, it would take a lot of work to find someone that has had an issue with one.

Not sure what your point is exactly...

The bedding material is a small dollop of a heated plastic... I feel comfortable enough calling it hotmelt glue, YMMV.

The tweaking done to 700s is far from mandatory and to suggest the average 700 does not shoot adequately, or any worse on average, than an A or X is laughable... and you CAN work on the Brownings, but no one wants to.

As to reliability, as I already stated I have personally witnessed more failures with A-Bolts than all other makes and models combined with far less time near A-Bolts.

I have seen no fewer than three fail in the hands of 24hour posters. It would not take me more than a second to pick up my phone and find a half-dozen people that have had issues with an A-Bort.

Again, YMMV.

On second thought, why not send a PM to JJ Hack and ask him if he has ever seen an issue with an A-Bolt...

I owned one I know what the [bleep] it was bedded with. I have never ever seen an issue with an abolt or Xbolt. You live in AK in a harsh climate not in the lower 48 where most of the weather is not that severe.

YOu know what you have railed and railed on Brownings forever. I bet you never even owned one.

Browning rifles do seem popular here in the south.

Absolutely they are very popular in the south and elsewhere. They are not my cup of tea but I never had one issue with Abolts or Xbolts I have owned. Workmanship first class, muzzle crown looks like it is done by hand. Perfect bedding for a factory rifle. They shoot extremely well and are consistent.

I keep thinking I want to find an A-bolt Medallion in .270. Someday maybe?

You lose again! I made the mistake of telling a friend he could not give me an A-Bort, so he did. I still have a SS Stalker 375H&H and even killed a Kodiak bear with it in the spring of '97. I owned a few prior, too.

And flat out you are wrong on me railing against Browning. A-Borts, yes, but not Brownings as I have several and find many quite solid.

Also, you fail to address the basic issue that I have documented many failures with A-Borts, as has JJ. And there are more than a few documented on the internet.

Feel free to ignore the negativs experiences of many on a very low volume model. You owe it to yourself!

My experience with a 700 wasnt just sub par shooting, its workmanship and design issues where the safety had to be reworked to make it workable and the thing vertically strung shots 8 inches due to stock issues. I bought it new off a dealer off the internet so I was forced to go to a remington warranty center. Twice.

Your comment about gunsmiths not working on brownings maybe the warranty center issue. They may not have the network that remington has and or the volume of defective product remington has so gunsmiths dont do the work. Browning may be selective in who it sets up to do warranty work & parts center work like Remington who needs every gunsmith on deck to contain the crap they put out there. I shoot trap league and wouldnt own any remington pump, auto, or OU after seeing the number of problems they have....

Sometimes it how you look at it and twist the comments to favor your brand. I dont think remington is as good as it once was and my collection is shifting over to Brownings as I uprgrade.

According to unsubstantiated and undocumented anecdotal evidence, Browning's big problem with the A Bolts, and possibly X Bolts, probably lies with the metallurgy of the metals they use for their triggers, receivers, barrels, etc.
If these rifles are taken to Alaska, and thereby closer to the Arctic Circle and North Pole, the magnetic attraction of the pole apparently changes the molecular makeup of these metals, rendering them corrosive, soft, and prone to immediate failure.

These failures must be real, as they are reported frequently by Sitka deer.

If these same rifle models are taken to more equatorial latitudes, these problems seem to abate, as witness the thousands of Browning owners who have used these rifles in North America, Africa, etc. without apparent problems- at least they don't seem to be reported often on the 24 HC, the truthful clearinghouse of all matters relating to firearms.
My own personal experience with a Browning X-Bolt, here in North America, where hunting seasons often see use in sub-freezing, wet and snowy conditions, has been one of flawless performance.

A real test of this theory would be for folks to take the Brownings to Antarctica to see of the phenomenon exists in the magnetic proximity of the South Pole.

Wow! One whole Remington lemon and you are positive the Whole World is looking at you!

There are far fewer A- and X-Borts out there than there are 700s... orders of magnitude differences in count. Why be surprised when they find a bad one.

But then you bad-mouth Remington pumps?!?! You do realize the 870 is the most used shotgun don't you? The militaries of a lot of countries, cops everywhere, and lots of farm boys use those nasty old 870s and they get the job done.

Have you ever heard of any real tweaking on an 870? Why divert the focus to a firearm that sets well above average in every category?

Oh yeah, that would be to get away from the argument you have no chance of winning.

Your grasp of physics is telling...

I bought an Abolt 10 years ago in a pawn shop in Jackson Hole, when my old Savage 110 broke, while hunting greys river drainage. Had that 110 for over 20 years, never a problem till then. The guy in Jackson gave me a good deal on the Abolt, and threw in a leupold scope to make it a fantastic deal. I got a nice deer and have been using that rifle ever since, very accurate, never a problem, same leupold scope. I got a medallion in 25-06 from a guy, who just had to have a wsm, got it cheap, beautiful wood, shot sub MOA. But I've never cared for the 25-06 round, and it sat in the safe. I sold it. I have a 700 varmint in .308, shoots very well, and a 7600 30-06, shoots very well.
Never had problems. I really don't care about brands. Whatever works. But my limited experience with Browning rifles has been very good. If I really needed another rifle, and it was a good deal, I'd get an Xbolt, or a Tikka, or a 700, or the new economy Merkel. I've had a ton of other rifles in various calibers and brands over many years, and know that if I maintained them, they work just fine. These days, what I got works fine.

Despite the Schitty bedding job, too many pieces in the trigger, pizz poor bolt design mine shoots decent, not great but decent. Maybe the Japs need a lesson in rifle building. As for the 870's being perfect I can tell you a few stories of "Lemons" in that breed too, as well as a 7600 making a few trips to a Remington authorized repair center before having to go to Remington to get a new barrel and extractor, last Remmy for me that was made after mid 80's. I think I have even heard of Remington having a few recalls in the last few years, maybe just hearsay though. Yes back in the day I don't think you could beat them but nowadays not so.

Yeah know 10Gauge, you do have a good point. Many rifles built long a go, WERE made to last a long time. And the average hunter back then expected them to last. Younger folks today, want lighter quicker shooting rifles that look cool to them it seems. And a lower price. That usually means plastic. On your point, I got to qualify my last statement and say I'd be more likely to buy an older used rifle with some proven durability.

Every company has built some junk, some on new designs, some on older models but different materials. Some people have good luck, some bad. You couldnt give me a Nylon 66 despite others thinking they are great guns. Some people love Model 70's but I bet you couldn't give them a truck load of push-feed 70's.
Take a Win Model 94 for example, kick azz old lever guns but when they went to stamped receivers you ended up with a decent paper weight.
I have an old pocket watch that was mt great-grandpas, too many parts and pieces, yes but the old girl keeps on ticking and keeps fuggin accurate time despite being 100 years old and God knows how many trips around the dial.

So I see a lot of animosity towards the A-bolt being redirected towards the X-bolt. I can agree with some of the complaints towards the A-bolt. Has anyone body actually had any problems out of the X-bolt, preferences aside?

No reason to believe anything changed in the bolt, they did not reduce the part count...

Blah blah blah.
Only problem I have had is mine keeps on running and killin critters.

I've seen a Remington 700 completely shut down by a single grain of sand trapped in the trigger housing. About the only brand of firearm I don't have any of in my house is Remington. You couldn't give me any of their junk. I don't know much about A-Bolts but I do like and own several Brownings. The A-bolts just never appealed to me in the least.

Anecdotal evidence based on a sample size of one... compelling!

Just like my sample of 1 870 Remington, now my shotgun collection contains no Remingtons. Compelling huh?

Anything can happen once... it is more telling when numerous reports come in from different areas and reporters.

Well, with your math skills, don't go to gambling.

You mean like all the reports from around the country of 700's going off when the safety is disengaged ? Or all the reports of bolt handles coming off ? I've seen a couple of those myself too.

If Remington 700's are such junk you would think the prices would come down instead of up. Apparently not many realize they are junk.

Have you ever owned a browning gun? You cant even speak from actual product expereince I bet.

I've owned rem 788's, 600's, two 700,s 760s, 7600, Nylon 66, and 2 870s. They are not perfect guns.
Warranty recalls on the 600
The 788 had bolt handle issues.
One 700 was great (old ADL) and new 700 mtn lss SS required work. Add the current xmark trigger and safety issues in there...
760s and 7600s had magazine finicky issues and parts that break
Nylon 66 had a defective magazine tube from the factory that wouldn't even let it latch close.
And the 870s were not bad, but watching the stuff in the last 10 years with magazine tube issues, walking out action pins, rusting finish on the expresses...
The remington autoloaders are under constant redesign because of flaws in the the 11-87s being jamomatics and the vesamax hasn't done much better.

Big greens value engineering has really hurt them. Dont even start with what they did to the marlin lever action..

So yea.. My last Remington bolt with its warranty issues has convinced me not to buy anymore. Sure they sell a lot of 700s in price point plastic.. The stainless steel barrels rust from finger prints in the stores from handling.. X-mark triggers. Just because they make a lot doesnt allow for such high volumes of failures and poor product quality.

You read how everyone loves their 700's on this forum, but they tweak the heck out of them. I had to do it on remingtons warranty dime.

So far I am damn happy with my x-bolt and would recommend it far above a Remington. You may spend a little more, but you wont be paying for fixes like your Remington.

Yea.. Big green quality ins't what it used to be. Im am very happy with my browning rifle and shotguns after several episodes of sub par Remington performance going across shotgun, rimfire, and centerfire rifle products.

I still have my one 700 and the 600 so they are decent enough products once you get them tweaked. I cant believe I was dealing with a recall on the 600 on its trigger.. that was a 40 year old design... how long have they been doing sub-par product design?

all the rifle prices are going up... even savages. Not a valid point.

Totally out of line!!!!!!!

This an A-Bort bash!

Betting I have owned as many Brownings as you have guns... I like a bunch of them and still own some... quite a few actually.

Looking at your claims critically leads me to believe you are blowing more than a bit of smoke by rearranging your "facts" to pretend to have more experience than suggested...

Guessing about Browning's CS program proves you have no idea how things work in the real Word... Congratulations!

This is interesting... the thread starts out abou x-bolts... Then some people criticize a-bolts so Sitka wants to create a A-bort bashing thread...

Then a few people complain about remington product and all the 700 supporters get defensive... Sitka is the most hurt.

I suspect Sitka works as a technician the Remington Warranty Trigger quick change center and needs people to keep buying that sub-standard product to keep employed.

Otherwise he has to go back to the Walmart lay away counter located 10 feet down the hallway.

At least you spelled A-Bort correctly...

I figure spelling proficiency isnt required for a Walmart gun smith and needed to bring it down to your level.




Way down.

I am happy disabusing your fantasies is not my job...

Can we discuss facts, pros and cons, and not have superficial pi$$ing contests.

Dreamer!

Dear Sitka Deer,

I have owned two Rem 700s, an SPS stainless and a Mountain Guide. Neither shot worth a darn out of the box. A very good group was 1.75 - 2". Bought new stocks - had them bedded, eventually bought both new barrels and now have had Timneys put on both due to my wife's 7-08AI firing when she was taking the safety off last fall. They were both in the trigger recall population.

I also have purchased two X-bolts in the past 3 years. Both are out of the box 3/4 to 1" rifles with good handloads and shoot almost everything 1.25" or less. They feed flawlessly with a full mag, unlike the Rems that often got bound upwith more than two in the mag.

There is really no comparison in my opinion.

Respectfully,

Greg Bradley,"bludog"

Notice who gets upset over these discussions... should tell you everything you need to know...

That is all great.... until it is not!

So apparently whenever Browning rifles are criticized for being junk then Browning lovers instantly reach for their "Remington sucks too" trump cards. Interesting!

Heres a test for Sitka...

Last...

Good fact based response based on your experience with two different products.


Sitka couldn't come back with anything other than a response to get "the last word in"

That's called "deflection", a classic technique used by politicians to avoid answering a question. Also, in my experience, used by teenaged boys to avoid explaining why they did something. On the 'Fire, its use is definitely not limited to Browning lovers.

Kinda like when someone asks about X-bolts and people start bashing A-bolts.

I still haven't heard any X-bolt problems outside of a few wsm ftn issues.

Further proof you have not owned or even shot an Xbolt. Of course the bolt was changed, you would have known that .

If you want an instant, involuntary reaction to a thread, post one with the words 'Browning' and 'Bolt' in it- Sitka will be all over it.

Kinda reminds me of the leg-kick reaction I get from my dog when I scratch her behind the ears......

Only responding because you directly challenged my information.

They did change the bolt... what I meant about nothing changed it is still a major cluster and the part count for the bolt went from 17 to 18! For example, a 700 uses 10. A Ruger 77 uses 9...

They simplified the bolt vs. the A-Bolt. The additional parts on the X-Bolt were a result of adding the Bolt unlock button on the bolt handle, but bolt body design was actually simplified and the number of parts used there actually decreased...

It is a good safety feature IMO and one that works very well.

I'll just keep shooting small groups & keep killing stuff with mine. I'm under no illusions that dozens of hours of actual field experience with the rifle will make any difference in the current pissing match.

Pee on.

I didn't notice a goofy little lock mechanism on my X-bolt like I have on my 700 bolt.

That 700 lock has to add at least 4 parts...

My x-bolt has worked great for me, as has my A-bolt. They feed, shoot fine right out of the box.

Xbolt post please provide detailed information about all these failures you have personally witnessed.

My only complaints are the fat belly in magazine area. I like a slim rifle for carrying. Fatty's are common since the WSM's came out. Winchester 70's are fatter there than they used to be as well.


My other complaint is the magazines wiggle around a bit when carrying and can even make noise.(3 of 3 rifles have done this) They also wobble around as you load a round. Me no likey.

Other than those two gripes they're pretty good rifles.

Hmmm thanks for the tip on the magazine noise.

I'll admit one thing to watch for...

Its best to have the bolt open when you seat the magazine so there is no resistance to make the latch "click". Otherwise it may come unlatched during bench shooting.

Not nearly as finicky as a remington 742 though...

I simply do not like the looks of the X Bolt. I've had 3 A Bolts (1 270 and 2 375s), all of which were very accurate, but for me they just didn't excude the build quality of the earlier Belgian made Brownings that used Sako or Mauser actions. Based on that and aesthetics, I won't consider and X Bolt. I'll stick with M70s (or clone) and Sako A series rifles.

Honestly I think my dogs know more about guns then Sitka

Na. Sitka knows everything about rifles.....just ask him.

I might have to go out and buy 2 of them just for grins