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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,634
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,634 |
No reason to believe anything changed in the bolt, they did not reduce the part count... Blah blah blah. Only problem I have had is mine keeps on running and killin critters. Anecdotal evidence based on a sample size of one... compelling!
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 18,927 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 18,927 Likes: 1 |
No reason to believe anything changed in the bolt, they did not reduce the part count... Blah blah blah. Only problem I have had is mine keeps on running and killin critters. Anecdotal evidence based on a sample size of one... compelling! Just like my sample of 1 870 Remington, now my shotgun collection contains no Remingtons. Compelling huh?
The last time that bear ate a lawyer he had the runs for 33 days!
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,634
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,634 |
I've seen a Remington 700 completely shut down by a single grain of sand trapped in the trigger housing. About the only brand of firearm I don't have any of in my house is Remington. You couldn't give me any of their junk. I don't know much about A-Bolts but I do like and own several Brownings. The A-bolts just never appealed to me in the least. Anything can happen once... it is more telling when numerous reports come in from different areas and reporters.
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,634
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,634 |
No reason to believe anything changed in the bolt, they did not reduce the part count... Blah blah blah. Only problem I have had is mine keeps on running and killin critters. Anecdotal evidence based on a sample size of one... compelling! Just like my sample of 1 870 Remington, now my shotgun collection contains no Remingtons. Compelling huh? Well, with your math skills, don't go to gambling.
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 19,242 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 19,242 Likes: 3 |
I've seen a Remington 700 completely shut down by a single grain of sand trapped in the trigger housing. About the only brand of firearm I don't have any of in my house is Remington. You couldn't give me any of their junk. I don't know much about A-Bolts but I do like and own several Brownings. The A-bolts just never appealed to me in the least. Anything can happen once... it is more telling when numerous reports come in from different areas and reporters. You mean like all the reports from around the country of 700's going off when the safety is disengaged ? Or all the reports of bolt handles coming off ? I've seen a couple of those myself too.
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Joined: Jun 2010
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 13,929 |
If Remington 700's are such junk you would think the prices would come down instead of up. Apparently not many realize they are junk.
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 9,948
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 9,948 |
The tweaking done to 700s is far from mandatory and to suggest the average 700 does not shoot adequately, or any worse on average, than an A or X is laughable... and you CAN work on the Brownings, but no one wants to.
As to reliability, as I already stated I have personally witnessed more failures with A-Bolts than all other makes and models combined with far less time near A-Bolts.
Again, YMMV.
My experience with a 700 wasnt just sub par shooting, its workmanship and design issues where the safety had to be reworked to make it workable and the thing vertically strung shots 8 inches due to stock issues. I bought it new off a dealer off the internet so I was forced to go to a remington warranty center. Twice. Your comment about gunsmiths not working on brownings maybe the warranty center issue. They may not have the network that remington has and or the volume of defective product remington has so gunsmiths dont do the work. Browning may be selective in who it sets up to do warranty work & parts center work like Remington who needs every gunsmith on deck to contain the crap they put out there. I shoot trap league and wouldnt own any remington pump, auto, or OU after seeing the number of problems they have.... Sometimes it how you look at it and twist the comments to favor your brand. I dont think remington is as good as it once was and my collection is shifting over to Brownings as I uprgrade. Wow! One whole Remington lemon and you are positive the Whole World is looking at you! There are far fewer A- and X-Borts out there than there are 700s... orders of magnitude differences in count. Why be surprised when they find a bad one. But then you bad-mouth Remington pumps?!?! You do realize the 870 is the most used shotgun don't you? The militaries of a lot of countries, cops everywhere, and lots of farm boys use those nasty old 870s and they get the job done. Have you ever heard of any real tweaking on an 870? Why divert the focus to a firearm that sets well above average in every category? Oh yeah, that would be to get away from the argument you have no chance of winning. Have you ever owned a browning gun? You cant even speak from actual product expereince I bet. I've owned rem 788's, 600's, two 700,s 760s, 7600, Nylon 66, and 2 870s. They are not perfect guns. Warranty recalls on the 600 The 788 had bolt handle issues. One 700 was great (old ADL) and new 700 mtn lss SS required work. Add the current xmark trigger and safety issues in there... 760s and 7600s had magazine finicky issues and parts that break Nylon 66 had a defective magazine tube from the factory that wouldn't even let it latch close. And the 870s were not bad, but watching the stuff in the last 10 years with magazine tube issues, walking out action pins, rusting finish on the expresses... The remington autoloaders are under constant redesign because of flaws in the the 11-87s being jamomatics and the vesamax hasn't done much better. Big greens value engineering has really hurt them. Dont even start with what they did to the marlin lever action.. So yea.. My last Remington bolt with its warranty issues has convinced me not to buy anymore. Sure they sell a lot of 700s in price point plastic.. The stainless steel barrels rust from finger prints in the stores from handling.. X-mark triggers. Just because they make a lot doesnt allow for such high volumes of failures and poor product quality. You read how everyone loves their 700's on this forum, but they tweak the heck out of them. I had to do it on remingtons warranty dime. So far I am damn happy with my x-bolt and would recommend it far above a Remington. You may spend a little more, but you wont be paying for fixes like your Remington. Yea.. Big green quality ins't what it used to be. Im am very happy with my browning rifle and shotguns after several episodes of sub par Remington performance going across shotgun, rimfire, and centerfire rifle products. I still have my one 700 and the 600 so they are decent enough products once you get them tweaked. I cant believe I was dealing with a recall on the 600 on its trigger.. that was a 40 year old design... how long have they been doing sub-par product design?
Other than that, How was the show Mrs. Lincoln?
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 9,948
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 9,948 |
If Remington 700's are such junk you would think the prices would come down instead of up. Apparently not many realize they are junk. all the rifle prices are going up... even savages. Not a valid point.
Other than that, How was the show Mrs. Lincoln?
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,634
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,634 |
I've seen a Remington 700 completely shut down by a single grain of sand trapped in the trigger housing. About the only brand of firearm I don't have any of in my house is Remington. You couldn't give me any of their junk. I don't know much about A-Bolts but I do like and own several Brownings. The A-bolts just never appealed to me in the least. Anything can happen once... it is more telling when numerous reports come in from different areas and reporters. You mean like all the reports from around the country of 700's going off when the safety is disengaged ? Or all the reports of bolt handles coming off ? I've seen a couple of those myself too. Totally out of line!!!!!!! This an A-Bort bash!
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,634
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,634 |
The tweaking done to 700s is far from mandatory and to suggest the average 700 does not shoot adequately, or any worse on average, than an A or X is laughable... and you CAN work on the Brownings, but no one wants to.
As to reliability, as I already stated I have personally witnessed more failures with A-Bolts than all other makes and models combined with far less time near A-Bolts.
Again, YMMV.
My experience with a 700 wasnt just sub par shooting, its workmanship and design issues where the safety had to be reworked to make it workable and the thing vertically strung shots 8 inches due to stock issues. I bought it new off a dealer off the internet so I was forced to go to a remington warranty center. Twice. Your comment about gunsmiths not working on brownings maybe the warranty center issue. They may not have the network that remington has and or the volume of defective product remington has so gunsmiths dont do the work. Browning may be selective in who it sets up to do warranty work & parts center work like Remington who needs every gunsmith on deck to contain the crap they put out there. I shoot trap league and wouldnt own any remington pump, auto, or OU after seeing the number of problems they have.... Sometimes it how you look at it and twist the comments to favor your brand. I dont think remington is as good as it once was and my collection is shifting over to Brownings as I uprgrade. Wow! One whole Remington lemon and you are positive the Whole World is looking at you! There are far fewer A- and X-Borts out there than there are 700s... orders of magnitude differences in count. Why be surprised when they find a bad one. But then you bad-mouth Remington pumps?!?! You do realize the 870 is the most used shotgun don't you? The militaries of a lot of countries, cops everywhere, and lots of farm boys use those nasty old 870s and they get the job done. Have you ever heard of any real tweaking on an 870? Why divert the focus to a firearm that sets well above average in every category? Oh yeah, that would be to get away from the argument you have no chance of winning. Have you ever owned a browning gun? You cant even speak from actual product expereince I bet. I've owned rem 788's, 600's, two 700,s 760s, 7600, Nylon 66, and 2 870s. They are not perfect guns. Warranty recalls on the 600 The 788 had bolt handle issues. One 700 was great (old ADL) and new 700 mtn lss SS required work. Add the current xmark trigger and safety issues in there... 760s and 7600s had magazine finicky issues and parts that break Nylon 66 had a defective magazine tube from the factory that wouldn't even let it latch close. And the 870s were not bad, but watching the stuff in the last 10 years with magazine tube issues, walking out action pins, rusting finish on the expresses... The remington autoloaders are under constant redesign because of flaws in the the 11-87s being jamomatics and the vesamax hasn't done much better. Big greens value engineering has really hurt them. Dont even start with what they did to the marlin lever action.. So yea.. My last Remington bolt with its warranty issues has convinced me not to buy anymore. Sure they sell a lot of 700s in price point plastic.. The stainless steel barrels rust from finger prints in the stores from handling.. X-mark triggers. Just because they make a lot doesnt allow for such high volumes of failures and poor product quality. You read how everyone loves their 700's on this forum, but they tweak the heck out of them. I had to do it on remingtons warranty dime. So far I am damn happy with my x-bolt and would recommend it far above a Remington. You may spend a little more, but you wont be paying for fixes like your Remington. Yea.. Big green quality ins't what it used to be. Im am very happy with my browning rifle and shotguns after several episodes of sub par Remington performance going across shotgun, rimfire, and centerfire rifle products. I still have my one 700 and the 600 so they are decent enough products once you get them tweaked. I cant believe I was dealing with a recall on the 600 on its trigger.. that was a 40 year old design... how long have they been doing sub-par product design? Betting I have owned as many Brownings as you have guns... I like a bunch of them and still own some... quite a few actually.
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,634
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,634 |
Looking at your claims critically leads me to believe you are blowing more than a bit of smoke by rearranging your "facts" to pretend to have more experience than suggested...
Guessing about Browning's CS program proves you have no idea how things work in the real Word... Congratulations!
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 9,948
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 9,948 |
This is interesting... the thread starts out abou x-bolts... Then some people criticize a-bolts so Sitka wants to create a A-bort bashing thread...
Then a few people complain about remington product and all the 700 supporters get defensive... Sitka is the most hurt.
I suspect Sitka works as a technician the Remington Warranty Trigger quick change center and needs people to keep buying that sub-standard product to keep employed.
Otherwise he has to go back to the Walmart lay away counter located 10 feet down the hallway.
Other than that, How was the show Mrs. Lincoln?
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,634
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,634 |
At least you spelled A-Bort correctly...
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 9,948
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 9,948 |
At least you spelled A-Bort correctly... I figure spelling proficiency isnt required for a Walmart gun smith and needed to bring it down to your level. Way down.
Last edited by humdinger; 02/29/16.
Other than that, How was the show Mrs. Lincoln?
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,634
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,634 |
I am happy disabusing your fantasies is not my job...
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 348
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 348 |
Can we discuss facts, pros and cons, and not have superficial pi$$ing contests.
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,809 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,809 Likes: 3 |
Can we discuss facts, pros and cons, and not have superficial pi$$ing contests. Dreamer!
What fresh Hell is this?
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,991 Likes: 2
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,991 Likes: 2 |
Dear Sitka Deer,
I have owned two Rem 700s, an SPS stainless and a Mountain Guide. Neither shot worth a darn out of the box. A very good group was 1.75 - 2". Bought new stocks - had them bedded, eventually bought both new barrels and now have had Timneys put on both due to my wife's 7-08AI firing when she was taking the safety off last fall. They were both in the trigger recall population.
I also have purchased two X-bolts in the past 3 years. Both are out of the box 3/4 to 1" rifles with good handloads and shoot almost everything 1.25" or less. They feed flawlessly with a full mag, unlike the Rems that often got bound upwith more than two in the mag.
There is really no comparison in my opinion.
Respectfully,
Greg Bradley,"bludog"
"Blessed is the man whose wife is his best friend - especially if she likes to HUNT!"
"Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength, and love your neighbor as yourself. There is no commandment greater than these."
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,634
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,634 |
Can we discuss facts, pros and cons, and not have superficial pi$$ing contests. Notice who gets upset over these discussions... should tell you everything you need to know...
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,634
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,634 |
Dear Sitka Deer,
I have owned two Rem 700s, an SPS stainless and a Mountain Guide. Neither shot worth a darn out of the box. A very good group was 1.75 - 2". Bought new stocks - had them bedded, eventually bought both new barrels and now have had Timneys put on both due to my wife's 7-08AI firing when she was taking the safety off last fall. They were both in the trigger recall population.
I also have purchased two X-bolts in the past 3 years. Both are out of the box 3/4 to 1" rifles with good handloads and shoot almost everything 1.25" or less. They feed flawlessly with a full mag, unlike the Rems that often got bound upwith more than two in the mag.
There is really no comparison in my opinion.
Respectfully,
Greg Bradley,"bludog" That is all great.... until it is not!
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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