it amazes me how the 270 winchester is so popular being a 270 in a 30-06 case but the 280 never really caught fire.
BUT
the 7mm-08 (.284) IS popular but never the 270-08. wierd.
for that matter its only now we are seeing a 338 federal. will they back down below 30 cal and bring us a 257-08? how much different would that be from the 257 bob?

It aint a factory round yet, but my day isn't over......grins

I call it the 08 improved...

Ok OK so I have this lustfull desire to build a 270/08 on a 700 shorty. Put on a tiny Schneider tube, cut it to 21" add a 6x Leo, Talley's a Uncle Mikes mtn and a 110 TSX some R15 and a handfull of tags! And a Ti take off stock.

Mark D

if the .270-08 ever becomes a factory cartridge, it will ONLY be for the rifle companies to sell more rifles ...

I can't, in my right mind, figure out what you could possibly, reasonably (or unreasonably) gain from having two chamberings as close to each other as the .270-08 and the 7mm-08 ...

.277 vs. .284 ...

gimme a 7mm-08 and a handful of tags ... but perhaps I'm too rational in my thinking? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

WGM-you're absolutely unequivically right!

But, I still want to do one some day.

I mean I already have the dies I got for free so I gotta build this good deal rifle right......grins

Mark D

hey ... even if you didn't already have the dies .... if you want it, go get it ... nothing wrong with it at all ... just figger'd that with the 7mm-08 out there, you got a REAL easy solution ...

so ... what would the blueprint of the rifle be?

700 shorty
Jewell
3 posi Gentry
African Walnut handle (most likely a Ti take off as I am too frugile to buy a Edge)
2 weight Schneider
10 twist
21"
Uncle Mikes Mtn sling
R15
Br2's
W-W hulls
110 TSX for tags
115 MK's for targets/lopes/yotes/pd's/chucks/porkies various other volunteers

That should do it. If anyone has any parts to give to the fund the rifle project could be even cheaper.

Mark D

Well the gun companies are in the money making business. Rational thinking, so far as I know, never played in to a gun-loonies thinking. 270-08? Hmmm, what would it do that a 260 or 7-08 couldnt do other than be a .277 .308 based cartridge? How would you market it against those two, PLUS the 270WSM. It offeres NO advantage if its made commercial. It has fabulous advantages as a wildcat I guess. At this point, it wouldn't just be redundant...it would be so impractical that even MOST impractical gun-loonies would be left scratching their domes IMO.

270 Win.....284....280....etc.

exactly my point ...

Well, I've never had much of a desire for anything in .277 caliber, but if I ever were to- it'd be based on the 08 case in a short 700.

Kaiser Norton

Why should they when we have the 270 WSM?

For that fact and for the sake of what you have been saying the past few days. What advantage would one have in doing so when we have the 270 Win?

More to the point, IMO, is the only advantage to a .270-08 vs the 270WSM would be an ever so slight reduction in recoil. The 27-08 would essentially be the 270WSM Lite.

I've always been a SA fan, but I remember how long it took the 7-08 to take off. The 7-08 filled a niche in the silhouette scene initially but didn't really come into its own until the last ten years or so. Also, in light of fifty years of Saint O'Connor's ministry in OLM, I can't imagine 270 devotee's giving them up for less performance. Truth of the matter is SA's have really only caught on in the last ten or fifteen years and still aren't widely accpeted.

i was asking why the 7mm-08 is so favored while the 7mm-06 (aka 280 remington, aka 7mm express) is a bastard child.
i was making a comparison in that the 270 winchester is very popular but there is no mention of a SA in the 308 case.
why WSM are brought into this i have no idea. if you expect someone to think that a 270 WSM in the same rifle length and weight would "be an ever so slight reduction in recoil" then pass whtever your smoking around.
the 139 grain 7mm-08 has 13.0 #'s of recoil in a 7.5 pound rifle.
the 270 WSM has 18.8 in an 8 pound rifle w/ a 140 gr. bullet.
thats a 45% increase .
45% thats "ever so slight"?
then i'd like an ever so slight decrease in my morgage.

Current bullet technology has made many short action cartridges as capable, or more capable, than a lot of long action chamberings with "standard" bullets ... add in reliable range finding devices, and your choice of ballistic reticles or turrets, and you lose the need for "warp speed" chamberings in the hunting arena ...

I'll gladly tote a lighter, shorter, milder recoiling rifle that kills just as dead as my heavier longer rifles that recoil more ...

Since when was the 280 a bastid child? News to me, legit when it was born in 1958. OConnor thought so highly of it his last custom rilfe made was in this cartirdge.

So what's the big deal about 18.8 lbs of recoil? Most any man can easily handle that recoil.

btw, 18.8 minus 45% is 10.34 It's closer to 30% Who's smokin here?


What does an extra 30% in recoil get you when comparing a
270 WSM to a 270-08 shooting 140 brain bullets?

Just 400 fps more.




You can cut and paste your answer if you like..... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Other than the .243 the sub .308 rounds based on the .308 Winchester case are a waste of time IMO. They won't do anything the .243 or the .308 won't do. They do sell more rifles to those who think they serve a purpose I suppose.

I am still waiting for the 270-308 and 257-308. If the 243, 260, 7mm-08 and 358 win are so good, all based off of the 308 case, then why not a 277 or 257. for the 277, it's a bit easier, the 7mm-08 already fills the void. for the 257, it's a bit more complicated. we have the 257 roberts but it's a bit long for some applications and loaded to a lesser pressure then current levels. the 25-308 makes a lot of sense to me.

for the 277, I think folks fall into one of two camps, either they like the 277 or the 7mm. for me, I like the "Born in the USA" 277 (it's a real 7mm anyway - the 7mm is .284, measured from the lands, not the grooves via the european standard).

Anyway, I guess I will keep waiting as I am out of the wildcat business.

ah, what about the 323-08, now that we have the 338-08...

are you tring to start something w/ me?
i said. it was a 45% increase.
13 + 45%=18.85. now take your shoes off and add that up.
he said it was a small amount. a 45% increase is not a small amount.
this is a thread about why there is no 270-08. not about how you are a real man who can handle 30 pounds of recoil in a 7 pound rifle. we know you are super man and we bow to you.

...and don't forget the .260 Remington. That base is pretty well covered.

I for one would be all over the 25-08 which fills a bit of a void in the class of 08 cartridges.
The bob, being the only thing close, but a bit long for the short 700's and model 7's, to say nothing of the Kimbers.

The 270 anything, for whatever reason, never got my motor running, but that's a case of different strokes for different folks. Nuttin wrong with that at all.



While were on cartridges that have to fill niches......Here's one for you all to ponder.

22 K-Hornet Rimless.....

She'd feed through a staggered box smooth and kill little critters cleanly and quietly. It would be the cheapest centerfire to reload, and for anyone who's fired a K-Hornet or for that matter, just a Hornet can understand what a neat round she'd be. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

There ya have it.....the niche round that hopefully, in my lifetime, will be filled.

A .22 K-Hornet Rimless?

.221 Fireball. That's about as close as I'll ever need to get.

Cohiba,

A 30 or 45% reduction of significantly noticable recoil of say a .338RUM would be, well...significant. A 30 or 45% reduction of recoil that wasn't, or shouldn't have been, an issue to begin with..is well, insignificant. But if you want to quibble about that as a selling point for a less potent short action .277, then I wont argue with you.

Cohiba and all who would like a 25-08 check out the 25 Souper. 308 necked down to 25 caliber.

My take on all this. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

The factories have to make things happen as far as new cartridges are concerned. Also, certain factories used to seem to like certain calibers such as the 6.5, 277, and 338 for Winchester and the 25, 7mm for Remington. Winchester choose early to make the 243 the only sub 308 caliber on the 308 case. Remington would not do it because Winchester was known for the 270 and a 270 anything Remington would flop bigtime. I always felt it was a bit strange why Winchester didn't come out with a short 6.5X08 something to compliment the 264 but they didn't. This would have probably negated any need for a 270X08 something and maybe it still has.

I really think the 7mm-08 was a bit of a desperation on Remington's part because the 280s health at the time was looking pretty sick. Remember the 7mm-06-7mm Express fiasco to try and pump new life in a sick cartridge? The phrase "A 7X57 in a short case" seem to help the 7mm-08 take off and for some reason the 280, even with Remington handicapping it, started selling better also.

The biggest surprise to me when it comes to short rounds is Remington's making the 6.5X08 round the factory 260 Remington. To me the ideal lineup of cartridges on the 308 case, providing I was a short action lover which I am not, would be in 25, 7mm, 30, and 35 calibers. With these four I would want for nothing more. However factories must sell new rounds so we see 24, 264, 277, and 338 put in the mix and some do become factory rounds. If there is one short round I would be interested in as a factory round, it is the 25 caliber. Strangely enough that is one nobody has ever legitimized. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

http://www.reloadingroom.com/page10.html
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm'
me want.

I always liked the idea of a 277 caliber cartridge based on the 308 case. The reason I think it would be nice is because of the bullet weights available. The most common bullet weight is 130g which has an SD a little less .25. I'm guessing you could get 3,000 fps with the 130g bullet out of the 308 case. Since these bullets are made to be used at 270 speeds, I would guess they would hold together great at speeds obtainable from the 308 case. Want to hunt something bigger?........jump up to the 150g bullets. The 110g TSX should work nicely or the 120g X.

The point that cartridges already exist that can fill this niche is silly; else, we would only have 2 or 3 cartridges. This would be a great whitetail cartrdge. Who knows, maybe the 3,000 fps barrier would make it appeal to the masses. I love short action cartridges.

A .270/3000? Well, it worked many years ago with the .250 bore.

I think it should be called a 278 something or other

Appears Federal has the itch with it's new 338 Federal. Maybe someone should ask them to do a study on a 277 Federal :-)

Seems like all (??) other -06 based calibers have a same 308 based diameter counterpart. Maybe a 25-08 is in order come to think of it.

GeoW

I don't think you could ask for a better all-around mule deer, blacktail, speed goat round than the 25-08.....

Been itching to build one for myself for quite a while and so has my dad.
If and when it ever became factory fodder........I'd be through itching and starting the scratching.... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

You dont have to ask. 270WSM is "better". <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I may be wrong, but I thought the 6.8SPC was just that, a .270-08.

its not. its a shortened 30 remington case.

The .257-08 has been done � its called a .257 Souper.

Compared to the .257 Roberts it has one advantage � it will fit a short-action rifle. The .257 Roberts is based on the 7x57 and is too long for many short actions but doesn�t take full advantage of the long actions, either.

In modern firearms there is no reason not to load the .257 Roberts to the same pressures as the .308. When that is done the .257 Roberts beats the Souper in the velocity department, and matches velocity at lower pressures (longer barrel life).

what would the velocity range be on a 25/308 in the 120 gr.

I could be way wrong but I would be for thinking in the 2750-2800 range perhaps?

What do you guys think?

Mark D

I don't think the 0.07 inch difference between that and the 7-08 or the 0.13 between the 260 rem. makes it commercially viable. Same can be said for the 25 cal version. between the .243 and the .260.

Of course couldn't you also say the same thing about the 308 to the 7/08 and also the 7/08 to the 260?

I kind of believe that a lot of this gack doesn't make much sense, it is always kind of tough to say what is gonna fly and what isn't to the general public.

I don't believe that the 270/08 would be any rock star in terms of sales, I do believe they would sell a few maybe even more than a few. It all depends on the marketing approach and the makers passion to see it succeed.
The 7/08 has such a good head start on it I kind of believe it would become a 270 vs 280 sort of thing.

I kind of like the idea of a 270/08 cause it is something different. I don't believe it would do anything better than what is out there already. I kind of think that the 308 is awfully tough to beat and the rest is all micro mgt.

For me the appeal of the 270/08 is the something different, it would probably lose some of its appeal if it became a factory round. Weird eh.......gun nuts what can I say!

Make it your best day gang!

Mark D

its viable in the -06. 25-06, 270, 280...

Look at the .260 and 7-08 with same, and that should give you a good clue. @3000fps I'd say.

The 270-08 will be here soon. Ammo companies are now competing to fill all the remaining -08 niches. In fact, I've heard from a reliable source that PMC is working dilignently on the 311-08. 180 grain bullet at 2651 fps, it's going to take the shooting world by storm.

IMHO, Nothing in 311 caliber will take the shooting world by storm. Americans at least, have no love for that diameter.

Why not buy a 250-3000?

that's a real good comparison and loaded up to modern pressures is an excellent choice, except for it being a bit longer than the 08 case, which gets back to it being fed into a true short-action.

My only question is....what kind of velocities would you be able to obtain with a 250-3000?? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I was just trying for a little levity. I'm not saying that I succeeded.

Are we splitting hairs here or what! A few points: How on earth is the 257-08 great but the 260 not?
I like short actions but don't dislike long actions.
Less recoil is better but if I have to shoot 257 fast then a 25-06 shouldn't scare anyone with its recoil. If I wanted (not needed) a short action then the 25wssm is there, or even better a 260 Rem -heaven forbid I compare the two when they are sooo different. Why make a 270-08?? Beats me when people like myself consider both and decide by simply picking action size or flatter shooting vs. slightly softer kicking. Does either round do something the other won't? The difference between those two is not large enough to require anything "more in between" - especially with the 7mm-08 out there. We got a million 7mm cartridges, a million 30 cal. and people -we already have a 270! How many here were complaining about the new fangled WSSMs and how the gun companies need to spend time insuring higher quality controls, building better fitted rifles, rather than trying to fool us with cartridges that don't do anything a plethora of others already do? Maybe I just don't have cash enough to invent solutions for issues that don't exist.

Heh - you're not in marketing, are you ?

The 260 is already here and rules over them all, 24's 25,s 27, and 28,s.

Why would anybody want to shoot a caliber that cant match up to it?

The 308's logistics,never make it a poor choice,if only by default.

I easily prefer the 7-08,but I'm biased...............

Yeah, I know you are, but then I cant argue with your success either.

I wonder if I'll ever see the day that Big Stick owns a 26 caliber rifle...?

I understand what you're asking, and my answer is that I'm not sure why some calibers take off and others don't.

Like you said, the .280 has never been popular, but the .270 and .30-06 are all-get-out in popularity.

I suspect that the factories probably played with .270-08 in their research laboratories, but didn't find anything particular useful.

Add to this that the .270 is bracketed by the .260 Rem. and 7mm-08 Rem., then it gets a bit easier to see.

Also, for those who mentioned it. I would love to see a .25-08, and also a .25 WSM (***NOT*** WSSM).

BT/DT...that's why I've no love,but admittedly boolit choices is much better Today. Pair of 264Win's.

The Pimp had a rear grip XP Repeater in 260 and it weren't too hard to take,but he had to rebarrel it to 7-08 to get the warm/fuzzy.

For fun,the 162A-Max alone,is reason enough to go 7mm Sumptin'.........................

I'd like you to tell me just exactly what the 243 win does so wonderfully better than a 260 Rem?

There is never going to be a 270-08 because someone will go and shoot a 7mm-08 in it.

For that matter I still wonder why we ever got a .277" diameter bullet anyway?

For that matter I still wonder why we ever got a .277" diameter bullet anyway?

Because there was already a 6.5mm and a 7mm sticking out of a case like the 30-06. Winchester chose to make a bullet size in between them and came up with a winner. Regardless of what anyone wants to say about the 270 Winchester, it was a stroke of genius on Winchester's part and perhaps paid the biggest dividend of any cartridge Winchester or Remington ever came out with in a bolt action rifle.

The 256 Newton is now history and the 7X64 and 280 have never come close to the numbers the 270 has put up in sales. It would be a simple thing to make a 270X308 so that a 260 or 7mm-08 would not chamber in it but I would say Winchester knows that the sales it would bring would not make it worthwhile. It will be interesting to see if the 260 is around in 75 years like the 270 Winchester has been.

I believe that the .270/08 wildcat cartridge has another and prior name. A name that was given to it by its designer. Richard Beebe many many years ago. He named it after the reloading company with which he was asscociated; hence, the 270 Redding.

Perhaps this may not truly count as an exact pedecessor because he choose a 30-degree shoulder for his version. However, or so my sources tell me, an earlier version yet did retain the original shoulder angle of its brand new parent cartridge - the .243 Winchester. And we all know were that came from. Credit for this pioneering 6.8 wildcat goes to a Maynard Sorensen.

The top 130 grain load for the Redding is quoted as being 2977 feet per second with H-414. If this is true, then this sawed off round does indeed get up into 270 Winchester territory.

Over the years, I have certainly chronographed speeds less that this with various factory 270 Winchester loads in a variety of barrel lengths. My old full stocked Husqvarna with a 20.5" barrel gave only a depressing 2786 fps with one popular brand of 130 grain factory ammo. The deer went down anyway. Of course, given a correctly placed shot, it does not really take much to kill a deer.

Hornady's Light Magum 270 Winchester factory load is a notable exception to the above in that it does what it claims to do, or very close to it. I just wish I could safely handload my 130s to their velocities. It irrates me that they have advantages that I do not. The stuff shoots very accurately also and the Interbond version would seem adequate for elk as well. With a little luck, I will verify this assumption this season.

I am a pretty big 270 Win fan. And when the 6.8 SPC came out, I thought I would like to have a smaller 277 based cartridge. Then I thought about the 270-08 and was real close to having one built, then I came to my senses. I thought why go to all the trouble when I already have a bunch of 270 Win rifles. Spend the money on reloading supplies and go shoot the crap out of the rifles I own.

But with all that being said, I do find the 270-08 appealing and I have to talk some sense into myself every once in a while. I think Mark D. has a great concept of what this rifle should be.

As far as a 257-08. This guy makes one based offf of a 260 case.
http://www.duanesguns.com/pages/dgr.htm

This?

http://www.stevespages.com/jpg/cd270reddingshortaction.jpg

That guy Steve sure know's his stuff.His website is great.

This?

http://www.stevespages.com/jpg/cd270reddingshortaction.jpg
******************

Neck that one to 25 and you would have a winner. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I wonder what the .270 Redding or .270-08 would do with 150gr bullets? Has anyone plugged the particulars into one of the ballistic calculators?

No method to my madness but I would expect from 2750 to 2800.

Mark D

The 270/308 would be a commercial cartridge if it had come out at the right time. It may still be one since cartridge proliferation for no good reason seems popular these days. Winchester could have brought it out instead of the 284 and it might have done very well, Probably better than the 284 which was never really a success.
I have built a few 270/308's and they worked out well enough. The owners were able to approach 3000 fps with 130s. Another one I made (christened the 270 Firefly) was essentially a shortened 270 Gibbs to get just a bit more capacity. It managed a bit over 3000 fps. As I recall, this was built on a Ruger short action.
Ackley liked the 270/308 and felt it would make a good cartridge FWIW.
While it's not too likely to become a factory offering, it's a better and more practical cartridge than many which are (the entire WSM lineup comes to mind). GD

If you like the 25 cals, it seems like the 25-308 would be a neat one to have. I believe if it had come first, your .243s, 260s, and 257 Roberts' would all be found on the wildcat list. Then we would all squabble about their useless redundancy.


In fact, I believe that the 25-308, 7mm-08, and 338 Federal could cover all your hunting needs nicely here in the US.

The 284 is the hull I think rifle manufacturers should play in. A 270-284 could be very healthy. 25-284 etc.

Investing $500 in a new barrel is a paltry investment to acheive the 25-08 or the 270-08 and I agree that both would perform admirably as do all its siblings. But if you were in charge of developing new cartridges at a gun/ammo company, investing large amounts in start up cash and then doing market research as to how many units it will sell just to pay for that investment, would you back either of these cartridges? Not me. I do think the .338 federal moves into an area that is underserved (back off .358 lovers) and they have worked out a good marketing program. Hopefully it will bring about some more bullets in the 160-180 grain range for the .338. What would you call the .270-08? The 7-08 nomenclature confuses non-loonies enough...

I like to think of it as the .27-35, rimless, short, improved. I'd like in better in 25 caliber. and who ever thought the .25-35 WCF would come back, highly modified, to be an assault rifle caliber?

Sycamore

I mean this in the nicest possible way, but you all are nuts - or as someone more tactful might say, genuine loonies. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

.30-30, the original short action cartridge <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

But if you took a 9.3x62 and shortened it just a bit and..... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

t <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />