yet still may not reload.

In the varmint rifle reloading forum I posted a terminal ballistics test with photos I conducted with the 22 Hornet & three bullets.

Regards,
Bill

Since one can get a 221 Fireball rifle why would anyone get a Hornet ??

For a reloader, I have the same question when one can get a 223... cheaper brass.. more commonly used...

both the hornet and the fireball have all the velocity you really need... so then, why not just load a 223 to those specs and be done with it...

a rifle in 223 will also sell a lot quicker or trade a lot quicker...

Hi tuck,

For me and what I do as much as I like Fireballs both 22 & 17 cal, I don't gain anything over the 22 Hornet with them.

I mostly hunt woodchucks and with such sporter wt. rifles walk about position shooting along with using my shooting sticks. I don't gain any distance because even from sticks 150-200 yards is as far as I can shoot decent.
My 22 Hornets are under moa accuracy.......which is plenty. In fact the groups I see posted with 17 Fireballs are no better than my 22 Hornets.
The 22 hornet has a little less muzzle blast and uses less powder........very long barrel life.
I also call some fox with it.

So, there really is nothing for me to gain, in fact I loose a little for what I do.

There are lots of varmint calibers these days. Still, sometimes I think they had it right 60-70 years ago.........220 Swift, 22 Hornet, 22lr.......and a 12 gauge .......those old timers pretty much cover every possable varmint & predator situation one could possably need......and do it well.

Bill I: They did NOT have the 204 Ruger or the 17 Remington Fireball 60 to 70 years ago!
The 204 Ruger, especially, is a quantum leap forward in the Varminting World when looking for an all around Varminting cartridge!
They did have the 22 Hornet back then and for certain Varminting applications I use this caliber today but it can't do everything.
Dittoes for the 220 Swift! I use it on occasion but for all around Varminting it leaves a LOT to be desired!
I have dabbled with at least 8 Varmint Rifles in caliber 22 Hornet and to tell the truth I am about fed up with it - its temperamental and difficult at times to obtain GOOD accuracy with and its "niche" is limited!
I probably will never buy another.
The 220 Swift is a very intense cartridge and over the years I have obtained good to excellent accuracy with the many Swifts I have owned and own now (I currently own, load for and shoot 6 Varminters in this caliber).
If a good (VERY good) deal on a Swift Varminter came along I would be a player for it.
BUT if a good (VERY good) deal on a Varminter in 204 Ruger came along - DON'T get in my way!
This is THE caliber of the future as far as all around Varminting goes!
It does 99.9% of everything thing that needs to be done in the Varminting World AND does it exceedingly well!
Don't be tempted by those who espouse and profess "squib loading" ANY cartridge - this practice IS dangerous - and there are safer and more interesting ways to cover the spectrum of Varminting needs!
None of the MANY 22 Hornets I have owned, shot, tinkered with, borrowed or seen shot have been as accurate as my 4 (four) 204 Ruger Varminters and my 1 (one) 17 Remington Fireball ARE!
No, I heartily DISAGREE with your statement where you contend that the Rifles of 60 to 70 years ago are good enough ("had it right"), OR, where you post "those old timers pretty much cover every possable varmint & predator situation one could possably need......and do it well".
Those cartridges of 60 to 70 years ago can't hold a candle to the "newish" 204 Ruger - as just ONE example of a new and truly exceptional all around Varminting cartridge!
Examples please you may ask - okay I will provide!
Of late I have been shooting a lot of Ground Squirrels, Badgers and Rock Chucks while also calling and sight Hunting Coyote and Fox. Thrown in during the last few months have been spotlight, night Hunts for Coyote, Fox and Bobcat. The 220 Swift is simply way to much "gun" for Ground Squirrels and Fox! Recoil, barrel heat, throat erosion, overkill and ricochet danger are just a couple of reasons the Swift does not "shine" here. And a Swift touched off at night while Predator Hunting leaves the shooter recoiled out of scope sight picture AND the muzzle flash causes spots to appear in ones brain image!
The 22 Hornet does not have the oomph to catch up to and kill running Coyotes at 300 yards nor to instantly and reliably stop a running Badger before it gets to its den mouth! Ground Squirrel Hunting is for especially accurate cartridges and ones with FLAT trajectories - need I say more?
How about the aforementioned Rock Chucks out there at 350 yards on a windy day - the 22 Hornet is useless and the 220 Swift with its recoil is gonna knock your sight picture askew at the shot! This makes folow-up shots a little more difficult when needed! And one Rock Chuck I took out at 275 yards this past week had JUST its head peering at me from behind a lava rock! At my shot (with one of my 204's!), I SAW that I had hit the quarry and made the kill!
Couldn't have done that with a Swift!
Yet the 204 Ruger does do all of these type shooting tasks and does them exceptionally well.
I haven't even touched on the myriad of other attributes the 204 Ruger has - this posting was not intended for that - but I did feel it neccessary (as a long time user of both the 220 Swift and the 22 Hornet cartridges) to offer up another "set of observations".
Don't sell your Hornet and buy a 204 Ruger - just buy a 204 Ruger. And then you will see what the folks from 60 to 70 years ago COULD NOT DO!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

I have had a Kimber Mdl 82 22 Hornet rifle for some years. I have never found an accurate reload for this rifle, best load about 1.5 inches at 100 Yds. I live and shoot in the wide open prairie dog country and I wont a rifle that shoots 0.75 inch or less five shot groups at 100 yards. A prairie dog pup weighs between 6 and 8 Oz and is about two inches accros the lung area. If I were shooting varmints in the ten pound class within 180 yards I could get by with a Hornet varmint rifle that shot 1.5 inch 100 yard groups. In the good old U.S.A. we have a lot of different shooting conditions. Over the years I have learned how to adjust the trigger pull, glass bed actions, free float barrels and have had gunsmith lapp bolt locking and recrown muzzles on some rifles. Years ago I learned to reload ammo because years ago hand loaded ammo was for more accurate than factory ammo. This year I ll be shooting the 17 rimfires, 17 Fireball, 204 Ruger, and 221 Fireball before the prairie dogs get spookey . No rifle or round is perfict, I keep looking all have some limits.

Little over kill in reply there huh guys (chuckle).

He asked and I answered ....... was just my .2 cents as noted. Not looking to argue.

My Hornets shoot at / under .75" average multiple 5 shot groups / in good conditions.

One thing I can tell you in reply to your .204 comment. 220 Swift's and 22-250's sure hit Woodchucks a heck of a lot harder at all ranges than a .204 does .......yet the .204 is just as loud. Maybe the 220 Swifts & 22-250's are over kill on P-Dogs as compared to .204's but, .204's are under kill down range compared to the varminter & swift on Woodchucks......thats a fact. The recoil / sight of impact differance is small and has more to do with the guns wt. scopes power and shooters grip or lack of. In fact I didn't even notice a differance with a H.B. .204 on the range or in the field on Chucks. I am sure its there but its not a "wow factor" there... and more spliting hairs there......which is exactly what many varmint calibers do in reality......"split hairs".... None of them offer the sight of impact of a 22 Hornet or rim mag even in sporter.

My last statement was a reflection.....nothing more. It did not suggest I live & die it. But, for here it holds some truth.

For what its worth I think the .221 Fireball is a great caliber.........ditto for the .222

Wonder how the old timers ever managed? (grin)

There is always a reason just not always a need.......

Bill...
Take the post in question with a grain of salt...

If "making sure the target stays in the sight focus after recoil" is a requirement or a must in choosing a varmint cartridge then I guess we're all idiots.....grin...

I LOVE the .204 but the Swift is more better at killing, period...

When I bought my small case 22 I went with the Fireball. I knew I'd be handloading for it and the robustness of the case was what sold me on it. It's easy and economically friendly to load. Powder selection is great (1.3cc Lee Dipper Cup of RE#7 is my choice) and the 40 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip bullets are as accurate as they are deadly. I picked up the Remington 700 in Light Varmint Stainless Fluted (LVSF) and replaced the flimsy synthetic stock with a Boyds Thumbhole Laminate. The new stock turned this thing into a tack driver.

Bill_I, I'm not sure what it is, but every time I take my K-hornet out shooting, I get the same comments from people like 'why not 223 or 204'?

If I wanted to shoot 204, I'd buy one. I have multiple 223s. But for moderate ranges, the hornet does the job very well with a low report and half the powder of a 223.

One might as well ask 'why 38 instead of 357 or why '7mm-08 when you can get 7mm RUM'?

The correct answer is 'because I like hornet'.

We all have rifles and cartridges we like the best but I dont expect any one else to like what I like. Since 1949 when I got my first rifle there has ben a lot of new rifles and cartridges to try out. Most all of them will work for someone.

I love my Hornet. I also have and shoot a .17 Bee, a 218, a 219, a 221 and a couple of 223s. Truly enjoy them all - mostly because they are NOT 22-250s or Swifts. No kick, no bellow, just fun shooting and something falls over dead. Hard to beat that, really.

Hey Tuck,

I like the .221 Fireball a lot. If I was not set up with Hornets I would likely get one in CZ. On the other hand they just don't do anything more for me and my Hornets are very accurate. Not sure in reality but it seems the .223 / .2235 bore Hornets tend to be a little more accurate than the .224 bores. Maybe a tighter chamber? Also the Hornets built on real center fire bolt actions rather than modified rim fire actions may have something to do with it.

My local shop told me yesterday when I stopped by "hey Bill we have a Browning micro in Hornet on order, know you like Hornets". I told them "when / if you actually get one in call me first" Don't need it but IMO it would give me the 3 most accurate best built 22 Hornet repeater rifles ever made (Winchester M-70 pre, CZ 527 & Browning micro). They just happen to all have .223 / .2235 bores

I went out last Sunday afternoon woodchuck hunting with a couple pals whom brought AR-15's and H.B. 22-250's. We seen about 11 Woodchucks. Its a bit hilly here (pretty country :)) of the 11 woodchucks only 1 was past 175 yards (comfort Hornet range on Chucks) at first sight.............lots of woodchucks inside 200 yards Perfect for Hornets and Fireballs / 17's, 22's what ever you choose in Hornet or Fireball its about ideal and your choice, lil differance really.......they are ideal for such IMO and VERY fun to shoot as compared to some others

Surprise that you can use ARs to hunt with in NY. Semiauto rifles & handguns illegal to hunt with in Pennsylvania. Plus most of those ARs are pretty hefty, especially considering their compactness.

Yea.........AR's are legeal to hunt with in upstate & western ny. I am just 2.75 hours North of you in the Chautauqua region of WNY. 5 shot clip only and a couple other things you have to watch.......but legal

Plus the two guys I hunted with are both cops

Pa is tough, no AR's, no semis, no Sunday hunting

A man after my own heart. If I want bellow and kick I jump from the .223 to a 6mmRem and a 25/06 get plenty of both and more range to boot.

O

Id get a hornet cause hornets are real cool and real deadly out to 200-250 yards,runs on about 10 grs of powder and is probably the most efficient center fire round out there.........

And that rimmed case is dandy for drop blocks.

With all the bullets I stockpiled, plus brass that lasts a long, long time if tended to properly, I can shoot my K-hornet for less than I can buy 17 HMR. I can still buy 40gn Sierras for about $13 per hundred, brass is about half the cost of 221 or 223, and it uses half the powder - well over 500 rounds from a single pound.

Per round, that makes it about

$0.03 for powder
$0.13 bullet
$0.22 per case
$0.02 per primer

However, I can get 20 loading per case. Let's be conservative and call it 10. That averages out to about $0.02 per case per shot.

That's about $0.20 per shot, close to 17HMR. With a much heavier bullet.

Can you load 221 or 223 for $0.20 per round?

Dang Tuck,

I read your post after I bought my Kimber of Oregon, Model 82. Luckily mine likes Lil gun, pistol primers, and 45gr bullets. These are the first groups out of my rifle. Going to try som vmaxs too. I'm going to play with OAL and the load to try and tighten up these groups a little. It seems to like the hotter loads on the left a bit. Gotta work on MY trigger control a bit too.

Look'in good Coyotejunki in particular the loads on the left you noted, especially for "first loads" and "new gun".

I never gained anything with OAL length in a Hornet.

The 40 vmax is accurate but 45 softies are right there too and make better hunting bullets. Personally, I would opt for the 40 softie over the 40 plastic tip any day.

You on the right track w) lil gun, 45's, and soft primers. It only gets better when you neck size only your now fire formed to chamber brass.

Play around with bullets but unless your plinking Gophers something tells me you will be back to the 45 grain softies in a short time.

Nice gun btw........show us a pick of that pup when you get time.

Watch the wind with the Hornet.........not a bad idea to test loads at 50 with it then shoot 100 latter.

coyote junkie Don't be surprised if that's as good as your hornet will shoot. That is typical of a Hornet and better than a lot of them.

Well.........."as good as your Hornet will shoot"..........is pretty good then

He noted it is various loads, new gun, first groups and it prefered the hotter loads on the left. I guess more people on the net than I can just buy a brand new gun, get a feel for how it likes to be held in one shot, make up some loads for it and shoot 1/4" groups all day long........right off the bat.

His groups on the left are 3/4" moa and thats with the one likely wind flyer in each group from the little Hornet.......and/or getting use to his brand new gun. He likely hasn't even neck sized fire formed brass yet.

A lot of Hornets including both of mine shoot under 3/4" moa. I have seen plenty of other varmint center fires that won't do better than that despite what is printed on the net.

At worst with his brand new gun, first loads, including wind flyers he is 3/4" moa for a couple hundred yard sporter wt. roving varminter.............yea.......thats just lousy

Bill I didn't say that was lousy I think the group he shot on the top left was good for a hornet and that level of accuracy is all that is needed for a walking varmint er. I was simply trying to kept him from chasing that load that is going to shoot in the ones. .100S I spent a lot of time and money trying to find that load that would shoot bug holes with my hornet and never did.

My T/C hornet barrel is very accurate. I've never shot paper past 50 yards with my Ruger hornet, but I've heard they are "inaccurate." The hornet works great for fox, etc. I even download it. My favorite load for chucks, fox, etc. is a 50 grain Hornady soft point and 9.7 grains of W296 at about 2350 fps. Its pretty quiet too. One can shoot around people and not cause too much of a rukus. I know, whimpy; not macho at all, but I'm not trying to impress anyone. I also bought the .17 mach2 instead of the 22 mag-cased .17. I also have a 6mm REm, a .17 Rem, two .223s, a .22-250, a .22 K-hornet, ........ I like them all, but the need for speed is overrated.

Ive owned several hornets,and they all shot quite well. Ive always subscribed to using small pistol primers,and AA1680 powder. This group was using my box stock CZ527 with only a trigger job.

Jefe That is a good shooting hornet you have, if mine would have grouped like that I would have kept it.

I perfer a Hornet for a couple of reasons:

I wanted a lighter, "walk-around" rifle, and

A shooter may initially get trespass permission in my state, but a louder cartridge will get the shooter tossed - and probably not invited back !

My Hornet's a CZ w/Leupold 2-7x33 Compact:

I have a M 43 Winchester in 22 Hornet, and had a Savage 340. I never have any problems with accuracy in either out to 200 yds. I still have the M 43 and shoot it at anything in the back yard. Its only about 125 yards in all directions. If something don't die, it's my fault not that little Hornets. It as a old steel wide field 4x Weaver on it. It was my Marine buddy's Mom's deer rifle, he gave it to me for getting him hired after he retired from the Marines. I have killed coyotes, crows, armadillos and things of that nature. I cast a 39 gr. round nose gas check bullet from NIE mold and shoot squirrels with it too!

Sounds good Otis,
BTW- On my Win. M-70 Hornet I have an old Redfield Widefield 4x too