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Posted By: ironbender Pebble - 11/14/18
I guess pebble thinks defeat of prop 1 is a green light. Got a mailer today with a lot of bs and twisted “facts” in it.

Clearly they had this ready to go to get it this close after the vote.

I think they’re wrong.
Posted By: akjeff Re: Pebble - 11/14/18
I got one of those today as well.
Posted By: bearhuntr Re: Pebble - 11/14/18
I agree with you Mike. The anti-everything groups tried their darnndest to make us believe Pebble was the main reason for #1. The prop lost so badly because most of the voters saw through their bs and how it would affect all of Alaska. A large percent of “no” voters killing the initiative are very much against the mine, it’s location, it’s lack of believable safeguards or other reasons related.

Pebble needs do a lot more work before I will be satisfied it is a good thing...
For the record I voted “hell no” on #1
Posted By: AKwolverine Re: Pebble - 11/14/18
I got the crap as well.
The market isn’t acting like it is a green light for NAK.
Posted By: 79S Re: Pebble - 11/14/18
So no on pebble? I guess I better take that sticker off my truck.
Posted By: Sitka deer Re: Pebble - 11/14/18
Pebble is, was, and forever shall be a very bad idea...
Posted By: 2legit2quit Re: Pebble - 11/14/18
Can’t think of any more ardent supporters of conservation than hunters. No on 1. No on Pebble.

That’s my take
Posted By: ironbender Re: Pebble - 11/14/18
I just surprised at how quickly they got that mailer into mailboxes.

And the twisted “facts” in it.
Posted By: las Re: Pebble - 11/14/18
Originally Posted by Sitka deer
Pebble is, was, and forever shall be a very bad idea...


But it isn't going away. It may take 50-100 years until they get all the polititions, judges, etc in line, but it will get done. $50B?? is high stakes!
Posted By: Sitka deer Re: Pebble - 11/14/18
I cannot imagine getting the go-ahead to build the largest dam in the world on a 2,500' thick peat mattress.
Posted By: Klikitarik Re: Pebble - 11/15/18
Originally Posted by bearhuntr
I agree with you Mike. The anti-everything groups tried their darnndest to make us believe Pebble was the main reason for #1. The prop lost so badly because most of the voters saw through their bs and how it would affect all of Alaska. A large percent of “no” voters killing the initiative are very much against the mine, it’s location, it’s lack of believable safeguards or other reasons related.

Pebble needs do a lot more work before I will be satisfied it is a good thing...
For the record I voted “hell no” on #1


I do think Pebble was a primary driver behind #1. However, the proponents were clueless to the fact that they could have gotten easy support for it if had not been written so broadly. The “antis” really are out of touch with the people of Alaska. Independent thinkers... that’s many Alaskans, aren’t big on being polarized by ‘the dividers’.
Posted By: Sitka deer Re: Pebble - 11/15/18
Originally Posted by Klikitarik
Originally Posted by bearhuntr
I agree with you Mike. The anti-everything groups tried their darnndest to make us believe Pebble was the main reason for #1. The prop lost so badly because most of the voters saw through their bs and how it would affect all of Alaska. A large percent of “no” voters killing the initiative are very much against the mine, it’s location, it’s lack of believable safeguards or other reasons related.

Pebble needs do a lot more work before I will be satisfied it is a good thing...
For the record I voted “hell no” on #1


I do think Pebble was a primary driver behind #1. However, the proponents were clueless to the fact that they could have gotten easy support for it if had not been written so broadly. The “antis” really are out of touch with the people of Alaska. Independent thinkers... that’s many Alaskans, aren’t big on being polarized by ‘the dividers’.

After speaking directly with the actual author I believe they were out to stop all development everywhere. Mining was only a side issue...

He was kicked aside quickly, probably because he was so open about his vision.
Posted By: ironbender Re: Pebble - 11/15/18
Originally Posted by Sitka deer
Originally Posted by Klikitarik
Originally Posted by bearhuntr
I agree with you Mike. The anti-everything groups tried their darnndest to make us believe Pebble was the main reason for #1. The prop lost so badly because most of the voters saw through their bs and how it would affect all of Alaska. A large percent of “no” voters killing the initiative are very much against the mine, it’s location, it’s lack of believable safeguards or other reasons related.

Pebble needs do a lot more work before I will be satisfied it is a good thing...
For the record I voted “hell no” on #1


I do think Pebble was a primary driver behind #1. However, the proponents were clueless to the fact that they could have gotten easy support for it if had not been written so broadly. The “antis” really are out of touch with the people of Alaska. Independent thinkers... that’s many Alaskans, aren’t big on being polarized by ‘the dividers’.

After speaking directly with the actual author I believe they were out to stop all development everywhere. Mining was only a side issue...

He was kicked aside quickly, probably because he was so open about his vision.




Buried in granola?
Posted By: Sitka deer Re: Pebble - 11/15/18
Met a 4?
Posted By: ironbender Re: Pebble - 11/15/18
wink
Posted By: las Re: Pebble - 11/15/18
Originally Posted by Sitka deer
I cannot imagine getting the go-ahead to build the largest dam in the world on a 2,500' thick peat mattress.


When has a really bad idea ever permanently gotten in the way of $? We'll be seeing attempts for Pebble the rest of our lives, I think. A segway, here.

The Yukon River Dam is still on the books, as is the Missouri River Diversion (Irrigation) Project from the 50's. For those unfamiliar with the latter, basically it was to use water from the Garrison Reservoir (Lake Sacajawea) to irrigate points east- primarily the Red River Valley. Since the RR drains north into Lake Winnipeg, and eventually Hudson Bay, the Canadians thumbs downed it for reasons of ag runoff, and species introduction into their waters. As I understand it, it is still on the books, just back-shelved by the Army Corp of Engineers, et. al.

All that water did prove handy for the fracking process in ND, I was told. MY dad was crane operator for the construction of the first 4 of those big surge tanks at the Garrison dam. My oldest brother rolled a Uke off the dam face once, and my BIL also worked on the dam. We lived about 15 miles downriver - a 25 mile drive to the dam site. A younger brother, now retired, has done extensive historical research all over that area (required for pipelines, fracking operations, new roads, etc....), as well as places as far away as Guam.

This is off the subject even more, but he told me a funny? story a few weeks ago when I was in CO. He had some research to do on Cheyenne Mt and requested the required documents. Included (but not requested!!) in the packet he received one afternoon was the electrical schematics for Cheyenne Mt. He called up with: "I think someone made a mistake...."

He was told "Don't worry about it"

The next morning when he came into his office, the packet of requested materials was still in his desk. Without the electrical schematics.
Posted By: Bambistew Re: Pebble - 11/16/18
Originally Posted by Sitka deer
I cannot imagine getting the go-ahead to build the largest dam in the world on a 2,500' thick peat mattress.


Clueless as usual... It's neither the largest dam in the world, nor is there 2,500' thick peat there.The [bleep] you come up... Wow.
Posted By: rost495 Re: Pebble - 11/16/18
Originally Posted by las
Originally Posted by Sitka deer
Pebble is, was, and forever shall be a very bad idea...


But it isn't going away. It may take 50-100 years until they get all the polititions, judges, etc in line, but it will get done. $50B?? is high stakes!

Thinking out of the box, one would think, that if there is that much money there abouts, someone could figure out safe ways to do things. But then the profit isn't as much. But isn't that more or less a win win? I think common sense went down the drain a long time ago already.
Posted By: Klikitarik Re: Pebble - 11/16/18
Originally Posted by Sitka deer
Originally Posted by Klikitarik

After speaking directly with the actual author I believe they were out to stop all development everywhere. Mining was only a side issue...

He was kicked aside quickly, probably because he was so open about his vision.


That's probably true, but Pebble was intended to be the big carrot; they simply - no big surprise- underestimate the intelligence and wisdom of their opposition.

Originally Posted by Bambistew
[quote=Sitka deer]I cannot imagine getting the go-ahead to build the largest dam in the world on a 2,500' thick peat mattress.


Clueless as usual... It's neither the largest dam in the world, nor is there 2,500' thick peat there.The [bleep] you come up... Wow.


You read that as literal, literal, gospel truth?!!!! To quote someone:
Quote
The [bleep] you come up... Wow.
Posted By: bearhuntr Re: Pebble - 11/16/18
Good thing we don’t have earthquakes
Posted By: watch4bear Re: Pebble - 11/16/18
Originally Posted by bearhuntr
Good thing we don’t have earthquakes




When is the next one?
Posted By: Sitka deer Re: Pebble - 11/16/18
Originally Posted by Bambistew
Originally Posted by Sitka deer
I cannot imagine getting the go-ahead to build the largest dam in the world on a 2,500' thick peat mattress.


Clueless as usual... It's neither the largest dam in the world, nor is there 2,500' thick peat there.The [bleep] you come up... Wow.

Really? What does the dewatering permit for upper Kanasket Creek call it?

And it is semantics on the size of the dam because they count the segments different ways.

But do tell, explain the dewatering to 2,500' and the permits to eliminate the Tallariks.
Posted By: ironbender Re: Pebble - 11/16/18
Originally Posted by watch4bear
Originally Posted by bearhuntr
Good thing we don’t have earthquakes

When is the next one?

Soon. Very soon.

Or not.
Posted By: las Re: Pebble - 11/16/18
Originally Posted by ironbender
Originally Posted by watch4bear
Originally Posted by bearhuntr
Good thing we don’t have earthquakes

When is the next one?

Soon. Very soon.

Or not.


We are working on it. The lines are down....


"Really? What does the dewatering permit for upper Kanasket Creek call it?

And it is semantics on the size of the dam because they count the segments different ways.

But do tell, explain the dewatering to 2,500' and the permits to eliminate the Tallariks."

Which of ourse is only one of other major problems:

A toxic dump that will persist for thousands of years at the headwaters of two of the largest salmon watersheds in the world, a foreign owned company that will just walk away when the minerals are gone in 75-100 years, porous substrate, earthquakes, disruption and pollution of ecosytems beyond the salmon, including the Cook Inlet side, etc.

Probably one of the bribes offered will be to the state for a higher royalty rate than is in place now, which is ridiculously low for major mineral developments. Exclusive of oil, which is up there.
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