After our Easter celebrations today, I decided to prep brass for a hunting rifle project. Being a firm believer in high quality brass and doing the prep work, even for hunting rifles, I purchased 100 pcs. of a well regarded mfg. whose brass I've used extensively for many years. You could see the flash hole shapes were all over the place. The brass shavings here are from deburring those 100 30-06 cases.

Good shootin' -Al

I like to minimize all of the variable that I can control, so I do detailed case prep. It doesn't take that long and while it might not help, it certainly won't hurt.

If I have a rifle that’s showing a lot of promise in the first firing and depending on what I intend to do with the rifle. I’m more likely to spend the time. Trimming to uniform length gives me a good datum if I want to uniform flash holes. Primer pockets …maybe, just depends on how I feel but that only needs to be done once.

Al,

Have prepped a lot of brass, but so far haven't been able to tell any difference in group size with the Starline brass (which was pretty uniform as received) in my .50-70 Springfield trapdoor, a "first year production" conversion done in 1866. Maybe if I mounted a 30x scope?

John

Al,
Does the offending brass have the flasholes punched or drilled?

I have had brass with punched flasholes where apparently when the punch was pulled back through caught some of the breakout and pulled it over the flashole, partially blocking it.

I intentionally loaded a piece of brass in that conditioon and shot it to no ill effects that I could tell. Although the offending chunk of breakout was gone when I inspected the inside of the case!

Most drilled brass seems fine, like Lapua, but brass that's been punched I uniform the flashole and remove any breakout--just in case.......

j how much you prep brass whether it's good or not has a lot to do with how good the gun it goes through is..

Lapua brass is not drilled there flash holes are punched.
Im not sure of any brass that is drilled

I prep all my brass before I load and sort it by weight, have seen better consistency in velocity and groups.

Most of my brass is old enough to vote and some of it is old enough to retire 😜. Maybe the quality was better in the old days. Haven't run into those kind of problems.

My brass prep includes tumbling but only because my brother likes shiny brass.

Sometimes I clean flash holes but usually not.

I separate brass by rifle, neck size until the rifle tells me to FL.

Primer, powder, seat.

Off you go.




P

I didn’t know that. Somewhere I’ve read they were drilled.

John, peen the flash holes closed to get ahead of the temptation to actually fire the beast. -Al

Al,
Are you talking about deburring the flash holes?
On Lapua and Alpha brass any more all I do is neck turn.


dave

When I first read this I wondered what was intended. I know there are guys on here who are perfectionists and mostly shoot for accuracy and tiny groups. Some of it may be for hunting purposes, and a lot more of it is for formal competition or informal. And in many cases (pun unavoidable) it's just for fun and pleasing self. I get all that, but my range shooting is 90% for a good accurate hunting load and practice when I have it - the other 10% is for fun and pleasing self.

I've never found that fussing too much over brass has resulted in finer accuracy, though I aim for moa - or better - for all my hunting loads. The accuracy of a particular load selected for hunting purposes is no worse with cases that have been fired a dozen times than with mint brass. What I've experienced, and I'm sure most have, is that often most new-unfired brass needs some prep, and sometimes a lot before use. My first batch of 9.3 x 62 cases for a new rifle (Tikka) were from Hornady. All 50 of them had to have the mouth of the necks trimmed, inside and out, from a flare that wouldn't allow chambering. It was the result of the brass being cut off at the proper length but never inspected before packaging.

Range accuracy, in my case at least, after I have my hunting load, depends on how I'm "feeling" on a particular day. So, what I've done in many instances over concern for a loads consistency, is shoot a group of three at 100, take the target home, bring the same riflde and the load for several weeks in a row and shoot three more on the same load at the same point on the same target, and so on. That tells me what I need to know about the load, rifle and me as a hopeful hunter. But real life field shooting of game is the final test of the shooter more than the rifle and its load. Sometimes I'll fire one shot per week on the same target and same POI, which accomplishes the same thing. A lot of my shooting in hunting has had to be from offhand, so whether the rifle and load is 2 moa or 1/2 moa is not relevant inside 200 yds.

Yes, I clean and inspect the primer pockets and flash holes before a primer is seated.

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

Iowa winters are just too important to waste. I process brass in the winter and shoot all summer. I have turned into a case prep nazi. It's a border line mental illness.

kwg

I don't get very up on brass prep. I run it through a vibrating cleaner with cob and used to deburr flash holes. Don't deburr any more. Where I probably get stupid is when firing I never allow fired cases to hit the ground. No idea why I started that and probably doesn't do a thing for the brass.

Dave, all that came from the flash holes. Pin gauging them to get a sense of the average size didn't work because the shapes were all over the place. It's not that they had some ragged edges...the holes themselves were distorted and out of shape. The ragged edges have become a bit more prevalent with this brand, lately. Everything else about the cases were as you'd expect for quality....which is to say it was excellent.

I pulled two from a second box I'd ordered at the same time and they had the same flash hole issues. For grins, I'm going to fire them 'as is' a few times and see how the flash holes change, if at all.

Good shootin' -Al

I know that case prep beyond making sure the case mouth is round and doing a little chamfering and deburring is a waste of time for me.

I got into the habit of when I got a new batch of brass I'd FL resize, trim to the trim to length, ream the flash hole and uniform the primer pockets. Does it make a difference? I don't know but I like to think it does.
PJ

I seem to recall the pics Stick posted of early production Peterson brass. Off-center, oval, etc. He gave 'em hell for it and they got their schidt together.

Al - are you going to drop any hints as to the manufacturer?

Did you get the brass for free? I would have sent a sample back and asked for a refund.

Think of it this way, once you do the flash holes, you never have to touch them again. I treat the primer pockets kinda the same way, I use a cutter/uniformer on new brass but just run it in to take the radius out at the wall and bottom. Then, I use the same tool to clean the pockets after firing and it keeps them clean and you can feel if one is shallower than others.

Nope.

That would have gained nothing as I do this on all new brass anyway.

This bunch was a bit extreme and thought it might be of interest.

I'm assuming Al's point is dont assume just because its XYZ brand of brass or anything you better check. Assume everything is broke untill you check that motto sure helps keep surprises to a minimum.

Must be the time of the year. I’ve been prepping 30-06 brass for a week or so along with other brass and some rifle work.
The military brass I have dates back to 1942 (head stamp Den 42), but most are LC 76. I use the military brass for cast bullet matches only. I segregate by head stamp. I have been known to segregate by weight to try to get the last bit of accuracy.
I’ve been annealing necks and trimming to length now. I have not noticed oblong flash holes. Back when I used a lot of military 223 brass I measured the centricity of the flash hole, throwing away brass that didn’t have the flash hole centered - I don’t know if that helped for accuracy but off center flash holes did screw up decapping pins. I used a hammer and a punch to deprime the military 223 brass, then determined if the flash hole was centered. After that just used dies.
I used to have to have the brass shiny. I believe there’s only negative value in polishing the brass now, except for resale value. I used a nylon brush and brushed the inside of the neck with graphite in an attempt to avoid bonding/welding the bullet to the case each time I loaded the case, it also lubed the inside of the neck for resizing.
After reading a response here on the Fire or maybe it was an article by MD, I just stopped polishing and stopped using graphite. For inside neck lube I now use Hornady one shot, it’s faster.

It would be of interest if we knew which brand you were discussing.

i always prep my brass and check to make sure every hand loaded cartridge fits perfect and easy in the chamber of that rifle i will be using when in a match , hunting or doing some rifle accuracy ammo testing for a certain rifle . i have my own rifle range and plenty reloading equipment so for me a little time prepping my ammo only makes sense for having better more accurate ammo. Pete53

Does messing with flash holes actually make a difference?

No need to mention the name...that would just be throwing a good company under the bus. The main takeaway is to check stuff. Of course on this brass, you'd get a hint when the decapping broke or stuck after the first firing.

I got bored one time and decided to attempt to duplicate the original 6.5 CM 140 grain AMax factory load firing out of a factory box-stock 1st gen RPR.

I had one box remaining of the AMax rounds (version without the printed recipe on the box) so I set up at the range and let fly 10 rounds.
Measuring up the rounds before hand both OAL and BTO (sinclair) varied by 0.004". Results were Avg MV: 2,640 fps, SD: 27.3, ES: 76. The two 5-round groups were between 0.5" and 0.6"

I've kept my Hornady once-fired match brass and fired thru the RPR separate from others, so I went all OCD on a bunch of that brass. Flash hole, primer pocket, TTL, annealed, and neck sized. I then weight-sorted the brass and chose 20 to load.
Problem - the AMax bullet had gone away, replaced by the 140 grain ELDM. So, I sorted a bunch of those by BTO (sinclair) to ease seating to the original 2.810" OAL.

Federal 210 match primers, 41.5 grains H4350, and OAL to 2.810".

Then back to the range (100 yards) with 10 of those rounds, glass set to 20x.
Results: Avg MV: 2,602.1 fps, SD: 16.1, ES: 51.8. Group 1 (5 rounds): 0.174" Group 2 (5 rounds): 0.236"

Not too shabby given a stock factory rifle, but I 'aint going to go through all that work for the hunting rifle version of that cartridge.

The last 2 bags of Starline 6 ARC brass I got were so good I don't think I'll 'prep' anymore of Starline. 9.3x62 Lapua cases weren't this uniform. Starline is really good stuff.

If the flash holes are as bad as you say, and the brass chips indicate, I'd dubur them as well. I've had to dubur some, but most times, it isn't necessary. On a bad lot, as it looks like you got, it is indeed necessary. Something to be aware of, for sure, but something I don't think I'd ever start a thread about. Just do it, and move on..

^^^ Yes, you should only start a thread if you have pictures of lots and lots of paper targets with holes in them.
Everyone wants to see your paper with holes.

I detect a smidgen of sarcasm

Just a smidge.

sometimes

Have to conserve bandwidth for the ad nauseam target pics and the ever popular store shelf pics demonstrating extraordinary shopping skills.

Same here. If Starline offers a particular case I tend to buy it. Have also used a bunch of Peterson brass in the past few years, but Starline offers a wider range, and can be less expensive in the same cartridge.

(Might also mention that my .50-70 trapdoor averages 2" for 3-shot groups at 100, using Starline brass and cast bullets--which ain't bad for a 158-year-old barrel with the "issue" open sights. I suspect Buffalo Bill Cody would have been quite happy with that, as he killed most of his buffalo with a .50-70 trapdoor....

Just think how good your 50-70 could be with a fast twist. Ha ha

Good shooting.

IMO most brass prep falls under the category of "If it makes you feel good go ahead and do it." Years ago another Master class hi-power shooter and I carefully separated ammo into measured groups of of .001 runout and "everthing worse" loads and fire groups at 600 yards off sandbags prone at dawn when the wind was still as possible. Zero difference measured on target.

It's not going to make any difference at 600, mostly due to wind--but I can assure you there's a significant difference in group size at 100 with my 6mm PPC benchrest rifle at 100 yards between .001" and .002" of runout. Which is why I perform the full brass-prep routine on my 6mm PPC cases.

A lot of it depends on the purpose of the rifle, whether shooting thousands of bison to feed railroad workers or shooting the tiniest 5-shot groups at 100 yards.

Yep. Horses for courses.

Pretty sure I remember you carrying on in a thread about filing away at flash holes with your torch tip cleaners. 🤔

For my most frequently used units, I take 400 rds of once fired brass, do an anal brass prep, then weigh and sort down to the most uniform 100. Not a waste of time as group size is typically halved compared to virgin cartridges.

BSA did anybody ever tell you YOUR NOTHING BUT KEY BOARD DICK!!!!

HE JUST SHOWS WHOS CLUELESS

Interesting what people are saying about Starline brass, early on in their production I heard a lot more criticism of it then good.

Might give Starline another look.

Same for me.

However, i began a test with my Sako 85 308 when i purchased it new. I also purchased 1000 Lapua cases new. The test, I load the cases directly from the box with zero preparation. I have yet to shoot a group larger than 1/2 moa after +/- 150 rounds fired. Most have been one ragged hole.

Yep, it wasn't that good early on--but have used it in various rounds since then, and it's been very good, including such "accuracy" cartridges as the 6.5 Grendel....

Might also mention that a lot of Norma brass is very good. In fact when I got my 6mm PPC bench rifle brass was kind of hard to find, since it was the middle of the Obama shortages.

Put an ad on the Campfire Classifieds, and one guy had a bunch of Lapua and Norma brass he was willing to sell. However, he warned me the Norma brass "was junk." I bought it all anyway, and found the Norma brass was more consistent than the Lapua. Am still using the Norma....

Oh, and also found during my years in the gun-writing business that many brass manufacturer have produced it for other firms, when somehow the other firm needs some but is too busy cranking cases out to fulfill their contracts. This not only includes American manufacturers, but Lapua and Norma....

I’m needing some new brass with a different head stamp so I can keep track of the same chambering in different rifles…...i got way too many 270’s…….

One thing I've found is that some brass needs a lot more preparation than others. I used to think RWS was overpriced, for example, but it comes nicely presented, prepared and sorted, ready to go straight from the box. Some other, less expensive brands have needed quite comprehensive preparation: trimming, chamfering, primer pocket uniforming, sizing, and sorting by weight. Factor those in and the time involved and it isn't such good value.

At least there's this though: if you don't lose it, and neck-anneal it regularly, and don't overload it to buggery, the brass you've spent that time preparing can last quite a number of cycles.

Yep!

Have enough RWS .308 brass to last for all the hunting Eileen and I are going to do, which is quite a bit....

I have heard folks whine about Norma/Weatherby brass on various forums. I haven’t had issues with multiple firings in two cartridges. You know some folks would complain if you hung ’em with a new rope…

So very true.

About that Hornady 9.3 x 62 brass I was complaining about: When purchased at Epps, a large importer of American reloading supplies, the manager informed me that that nicely packaged Hornady brass was actually made in Europe by S&B. At Canadian Customs a manifesto had to declare in what country of origin it was manufactured, despite the package stating ""Made In The USA". Also, I was told that the 286gr ammo in 9.3 x 62 that Remington was sending to Europe; that bullet was the Hornady 286gr SP-RP.

And so the world churns . . .

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

John, I've had good luck with some older Nosler brass for the 7-08 and 7mag, and current Norma brass for my 6.5 PRC. Am I correct that Norma made Nosler's brass for a while, maybe still do?

Bob, am not surprised about Remington using Hornady bullets.

Over 30 years ago the guy who'd been the writer-contact/public-relations person at Remington years sent me several kinds of "Core-Lokt" ammo. Some of the bullets looked very much like secant-ogive Hornady Interlock Spire Points (which Elmer Keith often called "pencil-pointed"). I pulled a couple and sectioned them, and wonder of wonders, they had Interlock rings inside the jackets.

It also turned out the Remington ammo folks had discontinued the heavy-jacket Core-Lokts, except the round-nose models--and hadn't told the PR guy....

If I recall correctly, Norma made at least some brass for Nosler. But around a decade ago Nosler bought a Washington-state brass manufacturer named Silver State Armory and moved the equipment to Oregon, so they could make their own brass. I don't know how much Nosler makes themselves now, but the ultimate goal was to produce all their brass.

There are other independent companies that make cases for various ammo and reloading companies.

some of my family and some friends worked at Federal Cartridge , believe me Federal made brass for many other companies ,i have some brass new and used from Federal that has different head stamped brand names on the brass made at Federal, they did shotgun ammo too for other companies. i sure mis the days of getting left over brass , once fired brass , and paper shotgun hulls , now days they have to throw all of it away. Pete53

I bought some of the early Nosler 223 brass that was supposedly made by Norma. Came boxed just like Norma, weighed about the same and was actually very good brass, but if it was made by Norma they did a very poor job on the flash holes, or changed a procedure.

Early Nosler flash hole



Norma flash hole bought at the same time

I am quite sure the effort I put into fully prepping brass for big game hunting will make no practical difference in the field. I do enjoy the process though and messing around in the loading room keeps me out of most bars some of the time.

Will continue to sort, debur flash holes, uniform primer pockets, neck turn, clean brass, etc in an effort to shoot tiny groups because there are worse ways to spend a rainy day ... assuming of course that it is not hunting season.

No real point to it all except that there is no joy in a job done half-assed.

As to outsourcing production: Many years back with my 45-70 acquisition I went after brass but it was scarce at the time. Purchased several hundred-round bags of bare Win brass and usually found 4 to 5 primed Hornaday cartridges in each. The seller made good, but I did notice the Hornaday cartridges were noticeably shorter than the Win and again they were carrying primers.

I trim my cases, clean the flash holes, and deburr the necks. I don't anneal them, I reload them 10 times then throw them away. Always have, always will.

Theres one thing for certain Al Nyhis has forgot more than you will ever learn, your problem is instead of using the 2 ears that God gave you your always running your big mouth.