Hey I was looking at the Federal website and it says that the new Sako 370 Mag is a 9.3x 06... aka a 06 case necked up to 9.3!

HOT DAMN.

Can any of you guy's confirm.- this has to be a dream!

Federal site
------------------
Cape�Shok� .370 Sako Magnum

Big game hunters looking for a new caliber offering heavy bullets will love the .370 Sako Magnum. Federal Premium� will load a 286-gr Barnes� Triple-Shock X-Bullet option, as well as a 286-gr Nosler� Partition� offering. Like its European counterpart the 9.3x66mm Sako Magnum, the new .370 Sako Mag provides excellent stopping power and is a great choice for hunting large game at shorter distances.


FEATURES & BENEFITS

30-06 necked up to a .366 caliber
High energy
Standard action allows for more rounds in magazine
Heavy bullets for additional stopping power
PART NO. DESCRIPTION
P370B 370 Sako Mag 286-gr Nosler Partition
P370C 370 Sako Mag 286-gr Barnes Triple-Shock X-Bullet

Spot

Ya know if this is really not a dream I get the best of both worlds..

1) 06 brass

2) And John B.'s 9.3 bullet

In the same case none the less.

an overly exuberant Spot

With the increasing availability of brass and bullets, and decades long acceptance of the 9.3 X 62, I have to wonder what the point of the .370 sako might be.

The 9.3 X 62 is real close to the Brown Whelen, necked up.

.370? Not a bad idea, but it's already here.

Just the 9.3x66 renamed for the American market.

Nothing new here.

Sako has said they were looking to get the largest possible capacity in the '06 cartridge case for their 9.3X66, call it the .370 Mag for North American marketing.

jim

even thou its a 9.3 whelen its a very useful caliber and if I didn,t own a couple 35 whelens and 375 H&H rifles Id probably grab one for ELK hunting the timber as Id bet it is a very effective stopper in the 0-300 yard range Ive normally killed ELK in

Is the 9.3x66 Sako/370 Sako Mag. truly based on the 30-06 case? I know they share some dimensions but does that mean you can use '-06 brass to form the 370? Maybe 30-06 basic? I had heard that the 9.3/370 Sako has a beefed up web area and was designed so the hybrid powders that VihtaVuori was developing - N500 series - could be used.

The 30-06 is a 7.62x63.

Maybe I am missing something here, but isn't the 9.3X62 case very close to the 30-06 case in dimensions and capacity?

If so, why doesn't Sako just offer their fine rifles in the USA chambered to 9.3X62?

??

One more reason for me to stick with the 338 Win. Mag or 375 H&H.....

AD

Yes it is. In fact I necked up an '06 case to 9.3 just to see if it would work. Fired in my 9.3X62 just fine. There is no point in doing this as there is plenty of good brass out there. But in a pinch it works.

Thanks Outcast,
I have a 9.3X62 which I use Lapua brass for; I am very happy with the brass.
I guess the point I was trying to make(I did not make it very clear) was that why would Sako introduce a new caliber that is so very similar to the 9.3X62?
Why not just market the 9.3X62 in the USA instead?

No, the new 9.3x66 Sako / .370 Sako Magnum cartridge is in-between the existing 9.3x62 and 9.3x64 Brenneke but not by much. It is more like an updated version of the 9.3x64 Brenneke.

Here is a ballistic comparison of the 9.3x66 Sako, 9.3x62, 9.3x64 Brenneke, and the 35 Whelen.

.370 Sako Magnum / Federal Premium / 286 grain Nosler Partition
Velocity in Feet Per Second
Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500
2550 2371 2200 2036 1878 1731
Energy in Foot Pounds
Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500
4129 3571 3074 2632 2241 1902

9.3x62 Mauser / Norma factory Ammo / 285 grain bullet
Velocity in Feet Per Second
Muzzle 100 200 300
2362 2143 1937 1743
Energy in Foot Pounds
Muzzle 100 200 300
3532 2908 2375 1924

9.3x64 Brenneke / Handload / 286 grain Nosler Partition
Velocity in Feet Per Second
Muzzle 100 200 300
2600 2395 2223 2058
Energy in Foot Pounds
Muzzle 100 200 300
4294 3659 3074 2541

35 Whelen / Remington Express / 250 Pointed Soft Point
Velocity in Feet Per Second
Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500
2400 2197 2005 1823 1652 1496
Energy in Foot Pounds
Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500
3197 2680 2230 1844 1515 1242

The Sako will cost about $1,500 and a box of factory ammo will cost about $85.
And from the looks of it the .370 Sako Magnum does not have much of a shoulder to headspace on.
So, I don�t think I�ll be buying one. Besides I have a CZ 550 FS in 9.3x62 on order.

But of course I have been wrong before.

Put me down for wanting one.

OK I GUESS some of you guy's missed the excerpt from Federals web page that I had in my first post.

http://www.federalcartridge.com/default.asp?pg=46

Look at the 370 sako infor and you'll see they say it's 30-06 brass.

So can any of the cartridge guy's validate that?

Spot

I believe that the Whelen numbers can be cranked up some......
I'm not stating that someone should ignore the loading manuals. Just stating that it seems most factory loadings and the manuals seem geared towards the weaker/older rifles.
T

I would like one also.
I wonder what pressure they are loading to?
T

Cape�Shok� .370 Sako Magnum

USA marketing????? I believe the word magnum may still be the "Buzz" word for some.
T

I thought Mule deer would confirm the case head size thing.

Spot

Its a 2.6 " 06 case, more like a 35 gibbs, a 250 at 2750fps. if the one I ordered ever shows up mabe in a month i will give a full report on it. sako doesn't do the whelen so this is next best.

So can you neck up 30-06 brass for it or do you have to buy the expensive stuff?

Spot

The 30-06 is X63.

The 370 Sako is X66.

Do you plan on stretching it out to 66? Can it, I really doubt it.

As far as I know Ken Howell developed cartridges based on the 6.5x66 case years ago.

http://www.hunting-rifles.com/Ammo/ammunition.htm

It is possible to use .30-06 basic brass but you'd be better off using the correctly formed 9.3 Sako stuff. I would be willing to bet that brass will be made available once the rifles and ammunition begin to hit the market. However, that doesn't mean it won't be inexpensive. The 9.3 Sako was a proprietary development that was designed by Erkki Kauppi, who was the head of ammunition at Sako for quite a while. Supposedly his goal was a case that allowed for a larger powder capacity than the 9.3x62 but could still fit a standard action and bolt face.

Pinotguy,
I think you are right. You'd be better off using the correctly formed 9.3 Sako stuff. Z-Hat list 9.3x66 Sako brass for $153.25.

Yikes -

For that price it's better to get a Sako 85 rebarreled to 35 Whelen.

Spot

That is expensive!

I just bought some Lapua 9.3X62 brass for 100 bucks for 100 cases and I thought that was crazy...

I hope you guys are good with your metric conversions.
CIP specs for cartridge maximum dimensions for the 9.3x66Sako (first figure) vs 35 Whelen (2nd figure) are:
Rim 11.95mm vs 12.01mm
Case web 12.13mm vs 11.96mm
base to shoulder length: 55.80mm vs 49.48mm
Shoulder diameter: 11.43mm vs 11.20mm
Case length: 66mm vs 63.35mm
Junction cone: 34deg55min vs 35deg (addition of both shoulder angles)
Pressures (measured by transducer) are also listed as slightly higher in the 9.3 but I haven't worked out from the CIP spec sheets what Pmax, PK, PE are ... but the 9.3 is about 150bar higher in these 3.
Is it a bit clearer now that the 9.3x66 is not a 9.3Whelen?
Cheers...
Con

Still reckon they're the same case?

Hmm... I'm surprised the Federal ammo maker indicates their 370 sako ammo is just necked up 30-06 brass.

Kinda sucks.

Spot

Spot,
I'm not. No offence but its typical American slopiness in adopting European cartridges ... the same that brought us PMC 6.5x55 ammunition/cases with 0.473" head diameters which caused "interesting" issues when fired in ex-mil M96 rifles. The 9.3x62 is in the same boat ... its not a 30/06 case head ... that some get away with using 30/06 brass is probably due to tight chambers and malleable brass. Sometimes it works ... sometimes it doesnt.
Cheers...
Con

Con,

I'm a German (background but full blooded), and a Engineer to boot --- AKA For me there can be no slop - I don't want one if it is't exactly what the chambering is.

In the end if it was appropriately engineered for an 06 case, I'll be all over it but if not - not so much.

Spot

I'd rather build a 9.3 on a 338 case. I guess you could set back the barrel and jam a reamer in it.

You know that may not be a bad idea, but in a slightly different combination.

Buy a Sako in the bore size you want and then have then have a smith recut the chamber.

Spot

Ya know maybe Federal pulled a Rick (WSM patents) and patented a 9.3 Whelen.

You could buy a Sako 9.3x62 and then bore it out with a reamer.. maybe not.

Spot

I wouldn't buy a Sako 85 for that, but might but a CZ 550 and try it. Why? The CZ is less than half the cost of the Sako.

ok, i just read this twice and my head hurts even more..

am i reading this correctly? if this brass gets produced here and the price drops can this be necked up or down to show a viable improvement over the AI 06' case or would i be lookin' at a 280AI shortened a whisker?

woofer

Brass retails for 39.95/ 20, I bought 200 for $ 32/20. You can use 06 cylinder brass but their is no real saving there. there are cheaper routes to go with the a similar level of utility.

Furpick,

Is there a point of contact for 9.3 Sako brass in Canada who us Yanks could order from? I tried the only other source I knew who offered it - Reimar Johannsen in Germany, and was told they do not import into the U.S. Beretta USA is totally worthless with these types of inquiries.

Stoeger canada is the importer and that is where it comes from. You can get the address off the Sako web site. I have had the 93 ordered since last sept as well as a 3006 finlight ordered in Jan of this year, should know this week or next what is happening with this. australia has rifles in this caliber readily available as I understand it and when last checked a ss=85 is 2000 OZ dollars, its the off season here so i can wait. stoeger has to sell through a retailer, I use Ominica Source for Sports in vanderhoof BC, they have a web sight.

As the happy owner of two Whelens, a 7600 and a CDL, I've tried to avoid any strings on the 9.3 X 62, since handling a CZ550 so chambered.

It was easy when I looked at the cost of Lapua brass but Graff has it for $39/100: http://www.grafs.com/product/187955

Think it's any good?

T..,

I think it's Privi Partizan (sp?) brass. In any event better than necking up '06 stuff.

I wonder if this is another one of those deals where handloaders are SOL due to the use of non-available powders. That issue pretty much ended any interest I had in the .338 Federal.

I don't believe this is the case here. In Sako's original factory load data, they used VV N-560 for all four of their offerings. The Federal stuff replicates their numbers so I figure they are using the same, or nearly identical, powder.

pab..,

If you mean the 370 Mag, I haven't a clue.

If you mean the 9.3 absolutely not. The 9.3X62 is as easy to load for as a 35 Whelan.

I've only used RL-15 with 286 & 270 gr bullets, but Nosler recommends VV N135 and IMR 4895 as well. With 250gr Noslers they recommend IMR 4064,Varget and VV N140. Those are all very easy to come by powders on my side of the planet. Surely there are others as well.

The round is NOT a 9.3 Whelan. The case is a bit bigger than an '06, bigger in circumferance, longer in the body and the rim appears a bit thicker as well. You CAN blowout '06 brass and make it work alto the neck is a bit longer.

Bottom line: bullets, brass, dies and many workable powders are easily available for the 9.3X62 even tho it's one of those 'scarry metric numbers'. Factory ammo (yuk) is even available thru Graffs.

Tho many disagree, I veiw it as a .375 lite and superior to the 35 Whelan. If you 'need' one, jump in there and don't look back.

In the Sako 85 the 9.3 X 66 (or 370 Sako magnum) is the most powerful round you can get - and still hold 5 in the magazine.

For the slight power advantage one would get with a .375 H&H over this particular 9.3 - you need to give up at least one round (or two - depending on the rifle) in the magazine.

Personally speaking, with a round that is this close to a 375 H&H (in speed, energy, and ballistic coefficient of the available rounds) - I'd much rather have the extra round (or two) available - especially, if I really needed them, in a hurry.

This thread brings back haunting memories of my education in South Africa. I was taunted endlessly while in school for the stupid designations made by Americans for all their "sizing"

Of course I had nothing to do with these designations, but I certainly took the blame as an American born student there.

The worst of all was the 30/06....... The typical comment: What idiot names a cartridge after the year it was made rather then the size or capacity it has? 38 special, what's special about a cartridge they can not even name accurately? I could go on and on but you get the point.

Getting back to the topic, I have no opinion on this .......... well maybe....... I guess it's a solution to a problem nobody has.

The world is full of new cartridges that are just fine and an answer to a question no one asked. My curiosity has lead me the other way. I've learned the 7X57,.303 Brit,300H&H and 9.3X62 absolutely do everything I'll ever need.

the 9.3X66 in a lever gun would be quite nice......

Yeah and should be easily doable. Kept hoping Remington would get it's double rifle off the ground and, maybe someday, make it in 9.3.

I agree and my curiosity has lead me to 257 Roberts, 7x57, 8x57, 270 Wby Mag, 45-70, and the 9.3x62. But I am not giving up my 30-30, 35 Rem, .270 Win, or 30-06.

It is strange that the older I get the more this old caliber interest me. I have also given up scopes for peep sights one some of these rifles.

With the ability to carry five in the rifle and have the
capability to kill anything the 375 will.

I want one and I want it now.

There are apparently a bunch of rifle/ammo marketers out there who haven't grasped the simple fact that most of the people who will buy a rifle chambered for some "new" round are handloaders. Instead of being sucked into buying some variation on the 9.3x62, most will buy a 9.3x62 and handload for it. Which makes it all the more puzzling why NO American company has chambered the 9.3x62 or loaded ammo for it. The 9.3x74R, yes, but not the 9.3x62.

I also cannot fathom why the marketers of any such new round would proclaim that handloaders cannot match factory velocities with available powders. They are just cutting of a bunch of potential sales.

I would be happy if Sako would just sell their rifles chambered to 9.3X62 in the USA.

JB,

Four years ago at a rep meeting in Maryland I sat at the dinner table with the Italians from Beretta. Pled my case for the 9.3's to be introduced to America. Those Italians at the table working here in America wanted it. It came down to the marketing geniuses in Italy to dis the idea.



Yes, and it's just stupid greed on their part.

i don't understand any manufacturer or importer not including their full line up of products. I have a 9.3x66 on order since last september and still have not recieved it. These things have a good profit margin. Why can't the importer call the manufacturer and order one up? I'll pay the extra shipping or what ever. In the industry i work, pulp and paper, an item can be here over night from where ever, you pay the shipping. when i hear ther may not be much demand for a certain caliber/ cartridge, so what it is just a rifle with a hole in the barrel, if its a dud i will take the chance. there are many 270 and 300WSM's on the shelf yet and maybe they want to get rid of those dud's before getting in new products, thats the importer I'm talking about.

The 9.3x62 has been a standard chambering for Sako in Canada for 20 years the 9.3x66 for 2 years, I thought the 62 was available in the US but not the 66. Factory velocity for 286 gr is 200 fps higher for the .370 than a 62.Handloading you could gain 100 fps in the 62 by loading to the same pressure as the .370 but loading data above 2350 for the 62 is hard to find. There are no .35 Whelen loads close to .370 ballistics. The .370 pushes a 286 gr. bullet to the same velocity, 2550 fps,as a .375 H+H 300 gr., with the same SD but with about 15 gr. less powder and 2 shot more magazine capacity. Sako does offer more bullet weight combinations in the 66 than Federal does for the .370

Mule Deer,
Beats me too ... I cant understand why Ruger can't do an M77 MkII in 9.3x62 given they already produce 9.3 barrels? Perhaps the hesitation is the lack of American loaded ammunition and hence they believe limited sales potential. Perhaps its a chambering issue knowing full well the dimensions aren't "just a 30/06 necked up", or perhaps medium bores just dont sell well??
In Australia ... the Tikka T3 9.3x62 sells steadily, not brilliantly, but steadily.
Cheers...
Con

I'd love to see what the 9.3/370 Sako would do with the 300-gr. Swift A-Frame. It's slightly "heavy-for-caliber", but only 14 grains more than the standard 286's. If you could get a legitimate 2400 FPS with that bullet, man, you'd have one hell of a big game cartridge that doesn't have a belt, without any bolt-face alteration, and with five down.

My reamer just arrived about a week ago, so I think this may move right to the head of the line, project-wise.

looking at prints it looks like the 64 with a larger base and shoulder should carry similar capacity to the 66. other than a bolt face mod why would you choose to build the 66?

just curious...

woofer

9.3x62,

There is some modern handloading data available for the 9.3x62, but only from certain gun writers (and the magazines they work for, notably HANDLOADER). The 9.3x62 can easily push 286's to around 2500 in a 24" barrel at 60,000 psi or so. The load I generally use is around 65 grains of Ramshot Big Game, but several powders will do it.

It has been two years since this cnversation. What has happened to the .370 Sako?

I think your question pretty much answers itself. Hardly anybody has seen one, and probably even fewer bought one.

I believe that Federal now shows 9.3x62 in their product line

One of my buddies up here just built one on a 300 Win Mag.

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=461361

Load development is continuing, but 286 gr Hornadys are already going way over 2700 fps.

Ted

Maybe this will help.

http://www.z-hat.com/9.3x66%20Sako.htm

Charlie Sisk has made 9.3 wildcats on just about every available case. He estimates he has at least least a dozen reamers for various versions.

This has probably been covered herein, but here are Federal's words: see: http://www.americanrifleman.org/Webcontent/pdf/2009-11/2009111213938-federalsako.pdf

Note also, Federal's words "Specifications for the .370 Sako Mag. have been submitted to the Sporting Arms And Ammunition
Manufacturers� Institute (SAAMI). It is expected that when they are finalized, the Maximum Average Pressure (MAP) will be 62,000 p.s.i., which is the same as the .308 Win. and slightly higher than the .30-�06 Sprg., which is listed at 60,000 p.s.i."

MD,

Can Charlie bore out a barrel to 9.3?

I notice a lot of barrel smiths do not make 9.3 barrels, at least my favorite ones.

Here's a link to Hornady's 9.3x62 youtube video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RT-Ze8H-4AY&feature=related

I'm building my 9.3x62 on a Sako action, that's what I'm familiar with, and it's easier not to change actions than screw around with different configurations.

No, Charlie doesn't do reboring. He uses Krieger and Lilja barrels, both of which make 9.3's.

I talked to him this afternoon and he had counted his 9.3 reamers. He has 19, only two for commercial rounds (9.3x62 and 9.3x74R). The 17 others are all for wildcats on cases from the .358 Winchester up.

Thanks MD

Both barrel makes are blue chip.

Mule Deer,

Does Charlie rebarrel or only build from the ground up ?

Spot

do they list the rifle for sale in the USA? I have not seen one? Its not on their website that I can find.

www.ableammo.com carries the 370 Sako Mag (9.3x66).

However I don't think I need more then the 9.3x62 so I didn't go after it.

Spot

$2000 for the ever popular 370 sako mag with an attractive hard red rubber shoulder bumper, or $900 for a new FN model 70EW in 338WM that are reported to shoot bug holes...let me ponder that one for a moment...

OK, OK - your minute's up! How did you decide?

Me? I'll go with the 338WM, buy a quality scope and, have enough for several good bottles of bourbon!

SU35,

That's the big reason he uses them. Both companies also will take his word if one of their barrels doesn't shoot, and replace them. Some other barrelmakers won't.

Spotshooter,

He has done some rebarrel work but much prefers building entire rifles.

I'd also like to add a more general comment: Charlie Sisk thinks that the .338/9.3 is the best of all the 9.3 wildcats he's built. Any bigger and they kick like hell, and the .338 will feed nicely in just about any bolt action long enough for the round.

The biggest 9.3mm wildcat he's done is the .375 RUM necked down. It gets close to 3000 fps with 286's, so is serious stuff.

the bourbon always wins...

Mule Deer, why not just go with a 358 Norma and load a bigger bullet than a 250?

Why not indeed?

One of the reasons there are so many more bullets over 250 grains available for 9.3's is that for a long, long time the standard rate of twist for .35's was 1-16, which won't reliably stabilize spitzers over 250 grains.

But if a .35 has a faster twist (and my own .358 Norma has a 1-14) then heavier bullets can certainly be used. Mine shoots well with both the 280-grain Swift A-Frame and 310-grain Woodleigh.

The other answer, of course, is that, like Mount Everest, the 9.3's are there.

Or how about a 375 Ruger for $800?
Them Alaskans can't be all wrong.......

Pete

I have a 370 Sako, also have a 35Whelen as well, the 9.3 hits soft at one end and hard at the other. Does one kill any better than the other, killed over 20 moose , some bears and deer with the 35 and it works really well, only one moose and one deer with the 370/9.3x66. At 220yds and a 250gr AccuBond went through a pre-rut bull moose's paunch and on out the other side, he took not one step. The 35 with 250's probably would have done the same thing but I run these 250's at 2700fps.