Why is the 6.5 Swede becoming so popular? What will it do that a 7mm-08 won't ?

panache

Lonnnnnnngggggg bullets that buck the wind and shoot flat, and they come with a pack of Lutfisk.

heritage

Maybe just as good a question might be why is the 7-08 becoming so popular; what will it do that the Swede or 7x57 won't do?

Others hit the nail on the head for me, and the shootist put the technical point out there in favor of the Swede... 6.5 cal bullets and its typically faster twist allow it to buck the wind and such better than other calibers.

When one looks at how long the Swede has been around, and how easily it does so many things well, it makes it easy to come to the realization that many cartridges were developed just for the sake of developing another cartridge.

if only Remington would have called the .260 rem the 6.5 Swede Short and twisted it 1-8 it might still be among us in other than the occasional concession to RL's.

The average hunter needs to keep in mind that the high BC bullets don't make a difference until you go past 400 yards and even then more like 500 yards. Either one would work fine.

If only Remington had started chambering some rifles in 6.5 Swede... they'd still be selling them.

I am curious to know how a bullet "bucks the wind"!

The question's practical answer is "nothing". Reverse the question and you have the same answer. This is no different than the endless debate of the relative merits of the 270 vs the 280, or as somebody else pointed out the 7-08 vs 7x57. So if you have a 7-08, you really need to have no particular practical concern. Circumstances pointed me at the 6.5x55. I tried it and I like it and will use it. I give its relative merit to some other cartridge no thought. I have no doubt that if I had got hold of the 7-08 or a 7x57 first, that I would like either one just as well.

I guess I would add that the 7-08 might be better for the user of factory ammo, since it is not faced with the necessity of having to work through older action designs.

They did, for exactly one year in their classic, and then never did another....as to why it`s gaining popularity, it`s just so damn sexy.

6.5 bullets are long and skinny, with a relatively high BC and sectional density.

Wind deflection does not primarily happen because the wind blows against the side of the bullet. It happens primarily because the bullet noses slightly into the wind because that produces minimum drag.

The drag vector points directly out the tail of the bullet. The main component of that drag vector is back toward the rifle, but because the bullet is pointed into the wind, it also has a small component in the direction the wind is blowing. So bullets with high BC are less deflected by wind.

It's a great caliber and when properly handloaded will blow by the 260 Rem as 6.6x55 factory loads (except Norma) are weaker because of the sweed 94/96/38s.

They kill losta "Elk" (Moose to us) in Scandanavia with them ever year.

wind deflection is the product of wind speed and lag time. a high BC will minimize lag time, and thus minimize wind drift.

Back in "94 Remington made the Classic in 6.5x55. My buddy ordered two, he had to wait four months to get one. They apparently sole lot hot cakes

If Norma's 6.5x55 loads are hotter than our domestic loadings and are manufactured in the country who's service arm was the 6.5x55. And shooters in that, and many other countries routinely use models 94, 96 and 38. I think it's highly probable that they shoot Norma factory ammo in those rifles. I have never seen a post on this or any other forum, or in print that says, DO NOT use Norma loaded 6.5x55 ammo in the before mentioned rifles. What do they know (Norma) that the rest of us don't?

Norma loads are hotter than other factory loads.

The 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser is simply a great looking case. It just looks right.The word sexy has been used.

I think European CIP max pressures are set higher than SAAMI.It can run the other way around on Americian cartridges. CIP averages also can run closer to max.Look it up in A-Square's manual.

My chronograph records tell me that Winchester, Remington, PMC (with the Sierra Gameking bullets), and Federal Factory 140 gr loads travel about 2,500-2,550 fps. Norma 139 travel 2,580. That is two widely separated batches of Norma ammo and the result is the same in both lots. Their recoil is also milder than the 2,750 fps level as well, not much, but you can tell if you look for it. I realize the Norma reputation for hotter ammo, which is precisely why I bought it in the first place. Reality (as checked by two different chronographs) told me different. It is also possible that I have two mild lots I suppose, but that is what I got.

The hot factory ammo I have shot is the old red and white box PMC 139 gr load. The bullet looks like a hybrid between a Hornady Interlock and a Winchester Powerpoint. That stuff went out the muzzle @ 2,780.

The Swede is not becoming popular, it's been popular for near 100 yrs. On the 7mm..... I still wonder why a 280, when there was already a 7 x 57 and an execeptional 7mm Rem Mag out there that could clean its clock.

Seems like if it were a 'Merican ctg everyone would be all about "AI-ing" it. Is anybody trying to "improve" the Swede?

yep. not sure if it does much though...have to ask around, i know a couple guys here have one.

I believe the Swede has indeed been "improved". I have seen data, but forget where off the top of my head. For me, when I feel the need to drive a 6.5 bullet faster than the Swede, I use a 264 Winchester. Speaks volumes about the appeal of the standard Swede since the AI trend seems largely forgotten about.

They work.

I had a military Swede, liked it a lot. That's how I came to like the round, since about 1985 or so when a number of the rifles were imported over here.

It pre-dated the 7-08 by eighty something years. But it won't do anything or in some cases not quite so well as he 06, 7mm Mauser, 8mm Mauser, or a number of other rounds of the time. Why it's so popular now begs the question why wasn't it more popular a long time ago.

One thing is the availability of ammo, which is a fairly modern development.

What are the expected, or real, improvements (if any)?
Haven't found the 6.5 Imp in any of my manuals.
I'm just sure there are alot of loonies that can't stand that much body taper. Gotta be fixed.

Improved version is called an ARCH

Thanks, I'll look for that name. Any idea what it stands for?

Out of a 29" barrel, I get 2800 FPS from a 140 grain bullet using the conservative US loads. That's enough. In a modern action, using 30-06 pressures and a shorter barrel I get about the same.

It may be a good thing to AI the 6.5x55, but you're not going to get much increase in MV that way. The expansion ratio of the 6.5 isn't in the region that would yield that result.

Yet seems many think it makes sense in the 257 Robts, go figger.

I killed my first deer (a California blacktail) with a M94 Swede in 6.5X55. That experience got me going, and I have used a 6.5-'06 for a lot of years (it is a 6.5X63 if you will).

The cases such as the '06 need a standard length action, and the 55 mm to 60 mm cases can use an intermediate length action (in the old Mauser terminology). The current shorter cases such as the 51mm .308 case fit nicely in to a short action, a virtue of the .260 Rem (which was the .263 Express in one wildcat version and the 6.5-08 when A-Square submitted it to SAAMI for standardization).

Just how Remington got the factory cartridge when it submitted its cartridge something like 6 months after A-Square is one of those stories under-reported by the mainstream gun press.

I want to replace my 6.5-'06 with a short-action rifle, I am thinking a 6.5 RCM would be really nice after working with the Ruger .300 RCM.

jim

I read an article (huh) a few years back about a guy that was a complete gun novice, but decided he was going to get into hunting. He was a scientific type, and very eduacated. He wanted a cartridge and caliber that would do it all in the North American continent. The article stated all the objectives he was after. Low to moderate recoil, bullets of high sd, muzzle blast, recoil, cost to reload, accuracy potential, weight of rifle and on and on. He concluded the 6.5x55 would fill that bill. I would absolutely agree. I think the article was in Benchrest clans magazine, the name of which escapes me now.

Is the Kodiak Brown Bear or the Alaskan Moose on the North America continent? I love the 6.5x55, but it does have some limitations. People take big Elk with a .243, but.....

Penetration due to the longer bullets is another practical reason the Swede is very popular and what makes it kill beyond it's ballistic statistics. Accuracy, too. I've had four Swedes: two stock military rifles in a 96 and 38 and two T3 Tikka's. All shot very good. The scoped Tikka's have the edge given the nut behind the trigger with somewhat tired eyes. Both the 96 and 38 would turn in 1.25-1.5 groups easily with quickly developed loads. I'm sure their potential was much better than that. The Swede might be appreciated more by someone who has both shot and taken game with a number of rifles.

There are a few improved versions. One, the 6.5x55 BJ Improved,is an Ackley type that was written about by Bob Jourdan in Precision Shooting some years back.

If I remember correctly, the BJAI came before the ARCH version. Wish I still had that email.. This was years ago... I still have Mr. Jourdans load data...

I believe there is 6.5 AI custom rifle on GB or AA, or
there was not long ago.

Metric calibers always suffered from few rifles chambered here and the magnum-happy gun press of the 60s. Carl Gustaf didn't buy a lot of ad space in Shooting Times, so coverage was limited.
Once the M96s and M38s came in and folks could enjoy the hardware, the cat was out of the bag. It's pleasant to shoot, accurate, lethal and Lapua makes great brass. No magic--just a good, honest, hard-working cartridge enjoying a long-delayed bit of acknowledgment.
Seven 08 is a great round, so if you like it stick with it.

The 6.5x55 is popular because it has been killing big game reliably for 117 years. This partly due to moderate velocity with bullets of relatively high sectional density (thus good penetration even with "ordinary" bullets), and partly because it recoils relatively mildly, so most hunters shoot it accurately and put those bullets in the right place.

Whether or not the .260 or 7mm-08 is newer or shorter or more fashionable or theoretically superior is irrelevant. Which is why 1000 times more .270 Winchesters have been sold than .280 Remingtons.

Just because a relative few rifle loonies think some cartridge is better, for whatever nitpicky reasons, doesn't make that so, either in the field or in sales.

I read some where that its difficult to AI the Swede because you lose a lot of cases to splitting when forming. Don't know the truth of that though. I've always wanted a 6.5/280 AI since I read an article about Chub Eastman hunting with one. Now I could just neck down Nosler brass.

Some years back didn't the 6.5x55 hold the record as being the best traget cartridge because of diameter of the case in relation to the length? riceone

Just a side note,

If you go 6.5x55, it pretty much matches the 260 Ackley Imp with Lapua brass which is always a plus over the 260.

"blow by the 260"!

Come on, the difference in case capacity between the 260 and 6.5x55 isn't enough to account for more than a couple of % difference in velocity potential, assuming all other factors are equal. That small a difference could just as easily be attributed to a fast/slow barrel as to case capacity, assuming all other factors are equal.

Jeff

That has been my experience as well. The 6.5x55 has about 52 grains of H20 capacity with a 140 seated, the .260 about 50 grains. That is 4% difference in case capacity, which means about 1% difference in muzzle velocity at the same pressure.

I written about my Ruger 6.5 Swede before, singing its praises. Is it any better than the .260 or the 7mm08? No. Never the less it has become a favorite of mine. Sure I've tuned it some, but over several trips to the range I shot 9 consecutive 3 shot groups that averaged right at .8" with the 120 Nos.BT. Its light recoil makes it fun to shoot. It has a 6X Leupold with dots making 400yd hits on an 8" gong child's play. I sold on it.

Besides It being and easy cartridge to shoot handload for an any decent 6.5 mm bullet for game hunting will do the trick Most of the time with just one shot, that is why its popular, tho not really. A lot of good Swedish Mausers end up here and at good prices till the last few years. I look at the 6.5 x 55 as a sort of pocket 270 dam near perfect came getter for those things in the under 500 lb range thou you could go shoot moose elk and bear with it, they would not care that much if at all. Light weight Low recoil good bullets and its shootable by just about anybody. I have a sako so chambered, I shoot stuff every year with it, works well. Fill the case with RL-22 and a bullet of your choice, zero in and go hunt. Of late I kind of like 120 gr SP's for my deer hunting.

My niece (16) filled her cow moose tag with a nice Carl Gustaf in 6.5x55, my brother picked up for her this year.

I loaded some Barnes 120 grain, she punched it through the shoulder on a quartering to shot (did a 'quiet' push on the bluff and the cow actually went where I thought it might ) and took out the top of the heart. prior to that, checking zero , she put 6 shots inside a 4 inch circle @ 187 yards (gps)over a truck hood - like she said " I'm not going to shoot any further than that"

My case capacity chart was done on the "full to the top of the neck" method and shows the 260 with 54 grains of H2O capacity and the 6.5x55 with 56 grains of H2O capacity. A capacity difference of 3.57% and a velocity potential difference, using the 1 to 4 ratio, of 0.89% in favor of the 6.5x55. A difference easily explained by a fast or slow or longer or shorter barrel or just plain rounding error. Hardly a "blow by", at least in my world.

Jeff

I recently acquired a beautiful CZ550 in 6.5X55, and found it incredibly accurate (5 shot groups of 0.60, 140gr Fed Hi-Shok SP). Can't wait to hunt with it!!

What are folks favorite handloads for 6.5X55?
I have some Sierra Matchkings in 120 and 140gr, and Nosler PT in 125gr..The Lyman, Hornady, Speer manuals are cautiously conservative, the Nosler manual seems alittle more applicable to modern makes.

The manuals seem to indicate that this cartridge works with faster powders(Varget,4895,4064) and slow powders(RL22)as well.

Thousands of Moose are killed each year in Sweden, many with a 6.5x55. Early Artic explorers used the 6.5x54 to kill Polar Bear, Walrus and whatever got in the way. The 6.5x54 is less powerfull than a Swede. The same cartridge was used in Africa by early white settlers to kill everything in their way. Roy Chapman Andrews used a Savage 99, 250-3000 with 87 gr bullets and a 6.5x54 MS to kill everything in Mongolia, Asia and wherever else his travels took him. A lady Bear guide in Alaska uses a Ruger 25-06 with 120 gr Hornady HP as a backup rifle on Bear hunts. I'm confident a well placed 140 or 160 gr bullets into the vitals of any Bear will kill it.

Well Luke, I agree with you, but as an avowed fan of the Swede, I would try very hard not use it on a big bear on purpose. I would prefer to have some more horsepower on hand if I found myself hunting anything in bear country. Sometimes situations arise unexpectedly.

I have both the 7mm-08 and the Swede. I like them both. What I like about the Swede is that it resides in a M70 base while the -08 I have is a Model Seven. What that means is that the Swede is easier to manage when it comes to reloading details in the cold. Short action Rems are a bit tight for big, cold fingers. That gives the M70 an advantage. I'm sure I would have no trouble killing a bear with the Swede should that ever be necessary. However, it wouldn't be because I chose to do things that way. I have taken moose with both rifles, but the moose I killed with it - four times!- stood there; well, wandered around a bit, while I poked him with four 140 grain Partitions and A-Frames. A single 180 Core-lokt from a (Ruger) 30-06 finally tipped him over. Only the Core-lokt exited. I suppose one might try to make the case that Ruger rifles are superior to Winchester and Remington and that Core-Lokts are superior to Partitions and A-Frames, but..........

You're a hoot, Klik.

Try the 129 grain Hornady or 130 grain AB, as they offer an optimum balance of velocity, accuracy, and penetration potential for deer and other medium game.

Jeff

thanks Jeff.

What do you like for powders?
I have most mentioned in the manuals. I was thinking about trying Varget or IMR4895 with 120- 130 gr bullets.

R22 with 125 - 140 gr bullets. It even does well with 120 gr slugs in my Swede.

i have not tried RL22 but varget and H4350 have done great.

with the nosler 100 BT, 3200fps and one hole groups with 42.5 grains of Varget...

so far my swede has been very accurate.

The 6.5x55 is very accurate, easy to reload, minimal recoil in a light rifle, handy, and with 140 gr bullets it will do all you need to do in a rifle. I know, I have two rifles so chambered. The ballistics are very likeable. There are a variety of bullets available and most powders in the medium to slow burning rate will work.

I have had a couple, one a model 38 military Husqvarna, and the other a Sako Finnbear. Very accurate rifles that just plain work. Why is the 6.5X55 better than the 260? Very easy answer it is in a Long Action. The 6.5X55 Swede will indeed "Blow by the 260" any time any day, just try loading anything heavier than 130g in the 260 SA. My Sako handles the old now gone Barnes 165Gg round nose bullets, this was my caribou round. No way it would work well in a 260 SA, the bullet is 1.37" by itself. The powder capaicity maybe close, but you still have to seat the bullet to COL of the magazine/action. The Swede will win everytime in a factory rifle.

If you load the 140 grain Partition to equal pressures in rifles with equal barrel length in either the 260/SA or 6.5x55/LA you're going to get approximately the same performance. Yes, the 6.5x55 case has a RCH more capacity, but remember that it takes slightly more powder to produce equal pressures in a slightly larger case.

I have loaded for several 6.5x55s with 18" to 26" barrels and for well over a dozen 260s with 18.5" to 26" barrels. I've loaded bullets from 85 to 160 grains in the 6.5x55 and from 85 to 140 in the 260. I don't see any good reason to shoot bullets heavier than 140 grains from either case, unless required to, such as if a person was going to shoot elk in Sweden or Norway. Besides, there isn't anything that a 160 grain cup&core bullet will do that a 140 grain Partition won't do at least as well.

Even with a deeply seated bullet, the difference in case capacity is still minimal and would result in an insignificant difference in velocity potential, given the 1 to 4 ROT. The difference is so insignificant that it could easily be explained by a fast/slow barrel or a throat cut to give a Weatherby-like free-bore jump to the rifling. But if believing in the 6.5x55's "blow by" superiority in a long action rifle makes you feel better about using it in lieu of the 260 in a short action rifle, that's OK, just 2 different paths leading to the same destination.

Jeff

I do believe that the 260 is a great round suitable for most situations. To the 130/140g level it will match the 6.5X55. However it is still limited to COL, which most 6.5X55's are not. Bullets seating into the case are bullets seated into the case. That is less capability anyway you look at it. Will it really matter? Not sure. I do know that I can get more out of a LA 6.5X55 with a heavy bullet than a SA 260. Won't even get into the difference in throat lenght. It works for me.

Ron

Lutfisk - the traditional Finnish fish dish! I used to eat Lutfisk when in Finalnd on business; but I prefer American beef!

How do you "know" that you can get more out of a LA 6.5x55 then out of a SA 260 using the same bullet, loaded at the same pressure, from the same barrel length? You know this because you have done it? Or you know this because of COAL limits and 2 grains of additional case capacity without actually doing it? Even with the COAL limits on the 260 and the 160 grain Hornady, the difference in case capacity is likely to less than 8%, which calculates to a 2% velocity gain, an irrelevant exercise in hair-splitting for a potential velocity difference of under 100 fps.

You and I obviously are looking at the 6.5x55 and 260 based on our different experiences/expectations. My experience has been that in 2009, there is no need to use properly constructed bullets weighing over 140 grains for 99.9% of what you would shoot with either cartridge. Although the early 6.5mm cartridges made their reputation with long/heavy cup & core bullets, there have been enough improvements in bullet design/construction over the past 100 years such that those 156/160 grain bullets are now, IMO, almost totally superfluous unless mandate by law, such as for shooting elk/moose in Sweden. That said, I have shot a much larger animal with the 6.5x55, an Eland, then I have with the 260, but that was done nearly 10 years before the 260 was introduced by Remington.

Jeff

Adding to the above.... I believe that Norma uses Swedish Model 96 receivers for their proof testing guns. I guess they think they are strong enough.

I think that the pressure concerns are related to the strength of the Norwegian Krags, not the Swedish pre-1898 style small ring Mausers. I have Swedish Mausers chambered in 22-250, 257 Roberts, and 7x57 that I'm comfortable shooting almost any load found in today's loading manuals for those cartridges.

Jeff

The Swedish rifles were made of Swedish steel that was considered by many to be the finest of the times. Other than cock on closing, the major design difference was the lack of a "safety lug" to catch the bolt if the front locking lugs sheered (a virtually impossible situation as the receiver ring or barrel would probably burst first). Good design, close manufacturing tolerances and, good quality materials made the action very strong.

nostalgia!

it seems to me the 6.5 swede is only popular to those on the campfire. i have NEVER seen a new one for sale, in any configuration, in a sporting goods store (and i've been visiting them for well over 45 years). some old mil-surp rifles, but never a new one. i believe folks looking for something less than 30 cal gravitate to the 7/08 or some other widely known cartridge. in fact, i'd bet if one took a poll of the men who walked up to a sporting goods counter, no more than one or two would even know what a 6.5 swede was. the swede is a fine old round, still capable of getting the job done. but it isn't new, it isn't advertised, it won't do anything the 7/08 can't, and i'm sure sales of swede's in the u.s. are dismal at best. we at the fire are a different breed of cat. very unlike "joe deer hunter" who buys the vast majority of rifles each year.

I bet that 7/08 can't generate a thread as long as this one.

I have 4 rifles chambered for the 6.5 x 55. 3 - M96 Swedes and one - Rem 700 Classic (made only one year, 1994). I agree, they (Rem) would sell a lot of them if they would offer them again.

I don't know what stimulated my interest in a Swede, but I'm (God forbid) chopping up 96 right now. The metal is done and I'm beavering a stock out of a plank at the moment. Bottom metal is in, and the top is about 2/3rds of the way down. If it ends up shooting well, I'll get it reblued and start taking it afield. It just looks like a really good medium range/game unit to me.

I don't seem to follow the herd when it comes to cartridge selection. One won't find any 06, 30-30, 308, or short mag ammo in my stash. Merry Christmas to all...

imr4350 & H4831sc have served me well with 129g Interlocks and 130g Accubonds

I used H4831sc and Accubonds this year, they did just fine, knocking over several does. Results, what you would expect from the Swede, 20-30yd dash, with lung soup. Personaly, I use my Swede for close work, out of the tree stand or in the timber....200yds max. The light recoil makes it great for when you are sitting up high in a lock-on tree stand. The big boomers make me uneasy shooting out of the tree.

But, I just dont see the need to run bonded bullets for my purposes. I'll switch to my Interlocks and 4350 going forward and be just as happy

FYI,

Re: M94/96 Mausers, yes lacks the rear safety lug. Proceed handloading at your own risk should you use reformed brass i.e. '06 sized brass.

Reformed 25/06 and 270 cases, both Hornady (although varying quite dramatically in capacity) produced OD on neck, of loaded ammo of .310, spec calls for .297, found this out AFTER nearly blowing a firing pin thru the back of my head as it bottomed out and CRACKED the bolt body threads due to a blown case and primer....in essence the ammo was 'crimped' and pressure soared. Neck turning could take c/o that issue, but the case head is not the same size as Swede which is a tad bigger, thus leaving 'slop' for expansion to take place in the web area, allowing a case head failure.

Just know guys you should not 'hot rod' the Swede Mausers IME unless you want to flirt with a potential lethal scenario.....the Mauser book showed proof loads on them in their day were 67k PSI IIRC, NOT Cup, but non the less, yes fine steel and all.

BUT, I repeat, I would never use anything other than proper stamped brass again, and FWIW, I feared a failure due to design and had to sell my '96's as I could not gain enough trust to fire again. I did get a new bolt body and had the one above headspaced and checked prior to selling it.

I am reasonably sure if loaded properly w/book loads, NOT excessively and using proper brass, one should normally never have to fear what I learned. That was at a time before the Swede popularity in the USA and brass was not common here.

Just an FYI, as a modern bolt, inc. Mauser 98 designs IMHO would be a better rifle for safety. I may never know how lucky I was the striker on the cock on close action did not kill me. I was fortunate, but perhaps real close to have being a statistic.....

Stay safe.

I think the Swede is finally getting noticed because of the relatively recent attention to the 6.5mm bore in general. There's the 6.5-284, 6.5-06 A-square, 260 Rem, 6.5x47L, 6.5 Creedmoor, all getting recognition.

The 6.5 Swede can exceed many of them, without breaking a sweat, due to case volume.

When my 30-06 barrel is smoked, I always thought the 280 would be the next obvious improvement. But, the Swede has really got my attention too. As a LR round, the 140 AMax at 3000 fps from a 26" bbl is a very real possibility (I'm thinking RL17).

The swede has ALWAYS been a great round and many know of its merits. My 700 classic has been used for about 13 deer and it has performed very well with little fuss. I dont know why i mess around with other rifles, when its just such a great killer of medium game.

Is it better than a 7-08 or 308 or, or or NO but i cant for the life of me find any faults. Another poster here claimed that he has never seen a new 6.5 swwede for sale in a store. When i saw mine i pulled my wallet right out and bought it without a second thought, maybe thats why he's never seen one.......

That is how it was with my M70 FWT Swede.
Walked into the store, my buddy behind the counter says, 'hey we just got in a Swede this morning' and that was all it took.

If the Model 96 and 6.5X55mm are you passions, here's one for you (Al Beisen for sale): see: http://www.biesen.com/Swedish%20Mauser.html

Haven't tried RL-17 in the swede yet but it might be interesting. With bullets from 129 up to 140 gr. my favorite Swede powders are 4831 and RL-19. Moving up to the 160 gr. roundnoses calls for stuff like RL-22 and IMR-7828. My Kimber sporterized Mod. 96 has a 22 inch barrel (IIRC), but I also have two Mod. 96's in their original configuration. Those barrels are about 29 in. and sure do get a lot more FPS, but I'm not gonna sporterize 'em cause they're too nice. For the sake of accuracy my old eyes need the scope on the Kimber Swede so I stick with that and it works.

Hey, I really like the 6.5X55mm, but if Remington chambered rifles in it, they'd still be selling them since they'd still have them in inventory. Unless cartridge avaialbility becomes common in most stores, it'll only be loved by loonies

I think that despite the lack of a safety lug and a larger gas shield, the Swedish built Mausers are like most (all?) Swedish built things, well engineered and flawlessly executed. There are lots of 1898 style Mauser military rifles that exhibit much poorer manufacturing and, probably, materials than any Swed that I've seen.

I currently have 5 Swedish military Mausers, plus a couple of commercial Husqvarna small rings, and never worry about the actions' strength or design when using loads found in the current reloading manuals.

On the sporterized rifles, I have replaced the military bolt shrouds with commercial style bolt shrouds from Brownells that have a larger gas shield. I also replaced the triggers with Bold or Timney units, install Dayton Traister cock-on-opening kits, modified or replaced the bolt handles, replaced 3 of the 5 barrels, and 5 of the 5 stocks. With these components changed out, the rifles function fine in 22-250, 257 Roberts, 6.5x55(2), and 7x57.

I have heard that, in a pinch, you can successfully use the smaller diameter 30-06 cases to make 6.5x55 cases by wrapping the brass just ahead of the extractor groove with 1 or 2 thicknesses of "scotch" tape to make it a tight fit into the chamber. When the rifle is fired, the brass will expand equally around the whole circumferance of the case head, rather than unevenly as would be the situation for an unsupported case. I've never done this myself, but it sounds reasonable.

Jeff

I think that if there was enough demand, a wholesaler like Grice would have Remington make a run of 6.5x55s for them. The only factory build Remington 6.5x55s that I recall are the 700 Classics. For some reason, the preproduction 700 Classics in 6.5x55 had 24" barrels, while the production rifles had 22" barrels. Just another Remington head scratcher.

If somebody made a run of them, I might be tempted to buy a metric run of 700 LSS-MRs in 6.5x55, 7x57, 8x57, and 9.3x62, but I'm a rifle looney.

Jeff

The nominal diameter of the base of the 6.5x55 is indeed smaller than the nominal diameter of the 30-06. American made 6.5x55 brass is sometimes a little bigger than nominal, but all that I have checked are within the SAAMI tolerance for 6.5x55.

I worried a lot about that at one time. Checked out everything I could find and quit worrying about it.

I don't have a 260, but at 30-06 pressures, my 6.5x55s gives me about 50-75 FPS more than Hodgdon lists for the same powder for the 260. That's what? An additional 25 yards of effective range?

Nope.

You have it backwards. The head of the 6.5 x 55 is slightly larger than the 30-06 family. Check out a Speer manual or fire up your choice of web search...

However, you are correct in that the slight difference is normally within tolerance and not important in the real world.

John

OK... I'll take your word for it. Hurt myself last night and was typing while full of real good meds. Good catch. Thanks!

(The meds have worn off, and I still seem to be confused.... What's that about? )

Interesting.
I did notice when I first bought my 6.5X55 that the Lapua cases were a slightly tighter fit in the shell holder than the W-W brass.


Denton,
What did you do, get hurt or something?
Hope you are all better by Christmas!!

Thanks for the concern... not clear what happened, but I'm pretty sure it's not as dire as my physician son thought it might be. Should be enjoying Christmas just fine.

One of my granddaughters, age 8, specifically asked for a Ruger 10/22 for Christmas. Just gotta get to the range with her!

A 10/22 for your granddaughter?
Now that sounds like a very good time.

Merry Christmas!

Maybe your son likes you better when you're on the meds...

-

I've found it can be important in the real world of shell holders.

Ricky,
Yeah, I know what you mean.

On my reloading bench, I have one of those wood stands with dowels that was intended for spools of fly-tying thread-I found it works great for shell holders, especially when I have ones from RCBS, Hornady, etc. I think I have several dozen shell holders, at least, and they have this habit of getting lost just when I need them.

Ah, true. I was thinking of extraction in the rifle.

John

Gotcha!

But I gotta get it there first, and if I can't load it, I can't shoot it.

I started with Remington brass and had no issues. Then I moved up to Lapua and the shell holder I had been using was now kaputz.

Oddity: The 30-30 and the 6.5x55 both use a #3 shell holder.

Hey! You're right! The 30-30 and the 6.5x55 both use a #3 shellholder. Those two rounds are among the 13 different rifle cartridges that I reload and yet I NEVER noticed that. Just walked over to the reloading bench and proved it to myself.

Lapua & Norma Swede brass rim sizes are larger than domestic Swede brass... .479" I believe.....

Yes, I believe the domestic swede brass I have used is the same as the .308 or .30-06 (Remington and PMC) (from when PMC was domestic)

I also heard that PMC made the Remington brass, which could be true, or might be the other way around.

The smaller (.308 size) brass expands to fit the chamber on first firing, and the SAAMI die resizes it to SAAMI spec.

I probably should mike some of this to see if I've been told the real story.

I have noticed needing to change shell-holders, on my press as well as a Lee Auto-prime, when switching between Lapua and domestic brass.

Sycamore

The only domestic Swede brass I have here now are 20 Winchester cases that are .474". I got lots of Norma and Lapua; the Lapua stuff is .477 and the Norma's are .479. That's another thing I never noticed. This is getting interesting. They all fit the #3 shellholder nicely although you can feel just a tiny bit of play with a Winchester case.

I've never noticed a need to change shellholders on the press no matter what brand of Swede brass I'm using. My Lee Auto-Prime also can't notice the difference; cause I just tried 3 different cases on it. A Norma, a Lapua and a Winchester and they all fit. I don't doubt what you said but now I'm wondering if it's due to some lot to lot dimensional variations in the brass. But then the Nosler #6 manual shows a .479 rim diameter and the Hornady 6th Edition shows a .480 rim. So who's right?

In my shell holders the standard 30-06/308 etc works with domestic brass, but not with Norma or Lapua. I have also found that Norma or Lapua was more accurate in my 6.5X55 Sako. The correct rim diameter to CIP spec is closer to .480.

I measured Swede brass from a couple sources a while back and found very little difference.

I have a lot of PMC brass and it all fits the RCBS #2. So does all of my Norma and Swedish made Herters brass. I bought a bunch of Winchester brass once and found out after ripping the rim of a case in the sizing process that about half fit the #3 shell holder and the other half fits the #2. I no longer have that brass. I have had one box of Remington Factory ammo that fit the proper Swede holder and another box that did not. There are several boxes of Winchester factory ammo I have not checked yet. That might just get sold, as I now need neither the factory ammo or the brass.

I never particularly noticed any problems that might have resulted from small diameter head size or any extraction problems.

Unless you want a game of musical shell holders, be careful what you use. I intend to continue the Norma and the PMC and next time I buy more brass it will be Norma or Lapua.

Hey Jeff. Not meant to insult the finely executed workmanship and steel (for if too hard/brittle my action would have let loose). My post was to warn reloaders who might use reformed cases to watch for OD on loaded necks, as 'crimped bullets' will make pressures skyrocket into a zone not really safe for any action IMHO. It was perhaps a rare thing that I experienced, but one look a the cracked bolt threads holding the striker causes one to really think.....safety. In a nutshell, the striker blew back under the escaping gas until it bottomed out so hard against the bolt body, it cracked the threads the full length of all those threads....I felt lucky to be alive.

BTW, on the posts re: brass specs, I have seen small differences, and use whatever shellholder needed, but in my Ruger #1, I have only used Lapua brass and the accuracy has been great, just over an inch at 200 yds, the last time I got serious using a 6x scope w/#4 reticle....

Long live the fine Swede!

You all have a wonderful Christmas.

I bought my '96 Swede about 4 years ago more from a collector standpoint than any other. Still in the packing grease, looked completely unfired, and all matching serial#'s. Then I began the cartridge research and did I luck out?! What a phenomenal little performer?! Original open sights at 100 yds I regularly printed 1.5" groups. After the sporterization (4" cut, crown, drop-in McMillan, "scout" scope mount, and Burris 2.5-7 handgun scope) I made a beautiful .75" group at, no lie, 250 yards! I was researching the 7-08, and many others, but what sold me on my little Swede was bullet choice. Not many calibers rival the .30 for weights and selection, but the Swede is one of them. From 85gr varminters to 160 gr Elk killers, and everything in between.

BTW, I love the results that I have gotten, but haven't hunted with it, yet. I've been researching all the premium bullets (mostly on this website) and every one bar none has had real world catastrophic failures like not opening and complete disintegration. I understand that with the MV of the Swede, some of these are of no concern, but several (NPT's, TSX's, NBT's, etc) were experienced in .308, 7-08 and 30-06 velocities! The above grouping was done with 140gr NPT's over 41grs of IMR-4350.
Then I read (again, on this website) that Partitions are sometimes just too heavily constructed for light to medium game like antelope and deer. I really like the TSX's and Sciroccos, but, again, they're not without criticisms.

Any help?

I'd try 129/140Hornady SP and Sierra 140s, the 140 AMAX is not a bad choice either. I'd expect the 140 Accubond to perhaps do as well if not better than others based on my results w/130 ABs.

You have a great shooter, as most are if not overly pitted in the bore, or excess wear, but having been stored in cosmoline, they are often pristine in bore condition in the ones I have owned.

Capitalist, what scout mount did you use?

I have one because I read a well sourced article about sectional density and ballistics coefficients that stated that the current two calibers with the best selection of bullets for both are 6.5 and .338.

I was in the process of acquiring parts for a custom when my wife bought a M96 Carl Gustafs for me for my birthday. So ... I have a Swede. My dad then proceeded to buy me 100 rounds of ammo for it. 40 Swedish 138 gr FMJ (brass looks like Norma?), 40 Sellier and Bellot, and 20 Core Lokts.

Now I want one in a sporter.

you havent appreciated the swede yet until you shoot 100 grain bullets at 3250 fps with no recoil. its heavenly.

i have no .243 anymore.

g5m:
I had my buddy's gunshop install Burris rings which I bought right along with the scope. And the shop that did the sporterization drilled and tapped the barrel just in front of the chamber on the barrel. Then they modified a weaver mount by honing about .75" off of the underside of the mount facing the chamber (thus allowing about a 1.5" overhang over the thickest part of the barrel, but not where the Carl Gustav info is). This places the scope completely forward of the bolt and action with no turning necessary, no funky spacers to level the scope, nothing! The smith originally told me sporterizing a Mauser wasn't worth the investment and told me to go buy a new rifle. I told him to just turn it into a "scout" and it was like a light bulb went off in his head! He had no headaches, and it was done in a matter of hours once he began! I'm pretty sure he'll recommend this procedure to other Mauser shooters! BTW my scope is a 2-7x not a 2.5-7x like I stated.

65BR:
I was all set to order some Sierras (the accuracy needs no introduction!) when one guy said he shot a deer in the chest, cooked up the backstraps, and bit into the jacket fragments! I kept reading and he was one of many with fragmentation and separation problems. So I was about to order the TSX's and then found out they are $40 for 50 bullets! I'm still looking.

The 6.5x55 Arch was an improved 6.5x55. It was described by Ackley in Vol 1 of his 1962 Handbook. My copy is a paperback 9th printing, with the description on p.361. The name comes from the cartridge's developer, Dr. E. L. Arch of Wenatchee WA. Ackley briefly mentions some of Arch's experimental work, including use of 200-grain Barnes original bullets in a 5.25-inch twist barrel. Arch also produced 6mm and .25 caliber versions.

As I recall, Bob Jourdan did not consider the Arch version a "real" AI. In the 1990s he developed and published his own version.

--Bob

For deer, lopes, and yotes...you can't go wrong with 130 Accbombs or 129 Interlocks.

Thanks for the info, Capitalist.

Guys will you please stop this talk about a 6.5 Swede!!!!
You got me wanting to buy or build a Swede and I don't need another rifle.
I have a .257 Roberts, 7x57, 8x57, and 9.2x62.
Do I really need something between a .257 Roberts and a 7x57?

+1 on the 130 AB's. They are extremely accurate out of my Sako and at the speed I shoot them (2700) they just flat out kill deer without a lot of excitement.

Forget need,do you want one? Now if I take the shelves out of the safe I'll have some room.

Yea,you goy some gaps to fill...LOL The 6.5's will do a lot of what you already have,but then it's a start,because you will want to add the.260, 6.5x54 MS and a 6.5x57 and maybe a .264WM...I hunt a lot with 6.5x55 and my 9.3x62,but that leaves about 40 something rifles at home to play with.

Cole,

It's not about need. It's about holding heritage, class, and panache in your hands. Besides, your 7x57 needs a little brother.

Buy it. Shoot it. Cherish it. You know you want to!

Oh my, yes! Everyone should have at least one 6.5x55.
Accurate. A pleasure to shoot. Saved the world for democracy. Well, sort of.
By all means you NEED one.

the only PMC 139 grain ammo I ever bought for my 96 it blew the primer completely out of the case 2 of the first 5 rounds I shot so I pulled the bullets and reloaded it. But in my 96 I reload all the loads we have in in our loading manuels now.

the 6.5X55 AI only gets about 100 to 150 more FPS

there was also a 6mm Arch

On the sporterized rifles, I have replaced the military bolt shrouds with commercial style bolt shrouds from Brownells that have a larger gas shield. I also replaced the triggers with Bold or Timney units, install Dayton Traister cock-on-opening kits, modified or replaced the bolt handles, replaced 3 of the 5 barrels, and 5 of the 5 stocks. With these components changed out, the rifles function fine in 22-250, 257 Roberts, 6.5x55(2), and 7x57.
----------------------------------------------------
I also rebarreled one of my 96's to a 22-250 and on 2 different
sites was told how crazy I was for the 96 is not strong enough for the 22-250 pressures. But I have been shooting it for 12 years now with no problems.

Thanks for the info guys. I did order the 130 AB's and can't wait to get 'em. I'm using H4350 and H4895. Just from studying manuals it seemed that the 4895 gave better results for the lighter bullets and 4350 for the heavier. But I also see a lot of the guys here are RL fans. The 4350 has been grouping well with the 140 PT's; I know the accuracy will be there; I know the bullet will perform, so now the priority is speed. Out of a 25" tube I won't be getting 3000, and probably not even 2900, but I'd like to get as close to there as possible (I guess I'm still young- well somewhat! -, stupid, and impressed by speed).
So which powders are the best performers?

For 130 AB's I use 47 grains of H4831sc. I believe it does somewhere around 2800 fps. It may not be a max load but still work up. It's a very accurate load in my two T3's.

I've been playing with a pre-64 Mod 70FWT that I recently re-barreled to 6.5x55. So far I have only used RE-22 w/140 and 160gr bullets. From my results so far, I doubt if I try anything else.

Have worked my way up to a load of 47gr of RE-22 with 140gr (Sierra GK, Speer HC, & Hornady IL) which shoots all 3 at slightly less than MOA, and to the same POI. As a whim, I shot a 3-shot group @ 100yds with one of each bullet that measured .87

The 160gr Hornady RN produces similar groups with a slightly smaller charge. POI is a couple of inches lower than the 140's but on the same vertical plane.

I estimate my velocities with the 140's at aprox. 2,700fps out of a 22" barrel, which is plenty for my purposes. I would suspect you would have to push the Swede pretty darn hard to approach 3,000fps with 140's, even with a 28" barrel.

I don't believe a Swede will safely do 3K with a 140. I run 49 grains of RL22 with a Hornady 140 and just break 2700 with a Tikka T3. Very good accuracy and no pressure signs, but I don't want to push my luck any further. A 6.5x284 is hard pressed to get 3K with a 140/142 unless it has a 28-30" barrel. Safely, that is.

I did a little internet snooping on Swede load data and noticed that velocities for RE-22 were highly variable. The 47gr loads I found varied from 2600 - 2800fps. Some show 2650 with just 45gr. I guess that's some of the infamous lot to lot variation you keep hearing about with RE-22.

I've thought about chronographing mine, but I'm so pleased with the way it's shooting, I think I'll just leave it be and assume I'm getting a decent velocity. Many a favorite load has been spoiled by an accurate chrono reading.

Even when the barrel was 29" I never got close to 3k, I understand that. I just basically want the most speed with accuracy that I can get. Who knows, I may just stick with the 41gr load of 4350 with the 130 AB's and see if it works as well as the 140 PT's.

I just wanted to maximize the ballistics. I was really hoping for at least 2800, though. Basically, I just don't have confidence in the round, yet, (the smallest caliber that I've owned before this was a 7mm Rem Mag) and I'm trying to make it as powerful as possible. My affinity for Bob Milek's work made me a moderate mass+velocity Keithian, and the little Swede can hardly be considered highly endowed of either. Basically, I thought of it as a phenomenal little antelope/deer/predator cartridge; then the guys on this site started talking about elk and grizzly! And that's just a little much for me to get my head wrapped around!

BTW RickyD, I read it...

Good! I found it illuminating and frightening. You?

I got my first commercial Swede (had 2 stock military's for 15 years) three years ago, about the time my first shoulder blew out. Last fall it was the other shoulder. I haven't hunted to speak of in 3 years, so I have yet to get my Swede's bloodied. That said, I have a lot of confidence by recommendation and reference in the Swede and in 6.5 bullets specifically. I don't think the Swede will let you down.

I love shooting the thing, and it's accuracy is nearly automatic.

Yeah... I had heard about the citizenship, but knew that his mother was American, and so blew it off (thinking he merely had dual). But the forged birth cert, and all the other info changed my mind. I find it unfathomable that someone with so much documented proof of their HATE for our nation was ever elected to the office (Clinton made my blood curdle, this guy just scares me!).

I've had the same experience with my Swede. All the guys that I work with are completely enamored by the accuracy, and basically think I have some unusual skill; I try to tell them its the rifle! I'm too honest, I guess!

In another thread they're looking for compilations of Bob Milek's work; and in it, I recount the first article I read of his about elk hunting, and it forever cemented in me what a "proper" elk cartridge should contain, one of which was at least 2000 foot pounds of energy striking the animal. If that's true, then the 6.5x55 peters out after 100 yards, and the 30-06 isn't good much past 200 yards. Now that I look back, Mr. Milek had a custom 30-06 made for his elk rifle, and I really doubt that he limited himself to 200 yard shots. One of the guides he interviewed even said the .300 magnums were insufficient at 350 yards if the shot was anything other than broadside. If you consider the .300 Win Mag, it carries more than 2000 out past 400 yards in most "elk" weights, and the same guide recommended the 8mm Rem Mag which drops below the ton just over 300 yards.

So I'm betting with the accuracy of my Swede, I could poke some well grouped holes into many of these theories! (I'm still going to start on whitetails and antelope, though!)

I have a Model 38 Swede made by Husky, and it will shoot 120 grain Nosler Solid bases to 2900 fps with little effort when using IMR 4895. It will break 2900 when using Rel-19 and the same bullet. My favorite bullet for any 6.5 caliber gun is the Hornady 129SP. It kills well and has never blown up or failed on any deer.

Don't ever worry about the Swede's action strength. I've read more than one account of them being as strong as the 98s and you should be able to make and standard cartrige work well in a 38 or 96 action.

That's exactly the kind of info that I was looking for! I've got H4895, but they should be relatively close. Thanks!

That comment is on the mark. Started reloading/shooting an M96 6.5x55 in 1962 (140 grain bullet) and have killed everything up through nice bull elk with a single shot. Have lots of other rifles, but NONE more effective/efficient and most not as much. Given the early experience and being a young fool back then (now an old fool) while in AZ, I mildly challenged a very well known writer about his unending praise of the .270 when so much of the data and experience showed the 6.5 Swedish to be superior - and the rifles cost about $15 or $20 at the time. His response was neither polite nor acknowledging - must have been selling something.

[quote=CCCC
Given the early experience and being a young fool back then (now an old fool) while in AZ, I mildly challenged a very well known writer about his unending praise of the .270 when so much of the data and experience showed the 6.5 Swedish to be superior - and the rifles cost about $15 or $20 at the time. His response was neither polite nor acknowledging - must have been selling something. [/quote]


Gee, I wonder who that might have been.

Capitalist, IIRC, I use 44/IMR 4350 in 260 and 45.5 w/Swede/Lapua brass and 130s.....2780 mv in 22" bbls. BC .488 IIRC.

+2......Good post,JB..I find it humorous that a cartridge can exist for several decades,have a kill record numbering in the tens of thousands(millions?) worldwide,and is suddenly declared obsolete and antiquated by a tiny,but vociferous minority of rifle nuts because some new cartridge squeezes into a shorter action weighing 3 ounces less....funny stuff.

I love both the 260 and 6.5x55. I think they fill different niches while doing their job with little fuss. Because the 260 fits into small actions like the model 7, I believe it is better suited for carbine length guns. The Swede needs an '06 length action, so it is better suited to guns with 22+ inches of barrel. I don't think any hunter can go wrong if choosing either.

Okay, guys... off topic for one moment. Like I said, I'm new and while I'm familiar with some of the texting lingo, there are a few that I can't for the life of me figure out... the only two that come to mind, however, are "IIRC" and "OTOH". They are both being used all over this site, and I'm completely confused!
Thanks!

IIRC = "if I remember correctly"

OTOH = "on the other hand"

HTH

Internet acronyms dictionary.

http://gaarde.org/acronyms/

I bought an old 6.5x55 Swede Carbine in the late 90s and enjoyed shooting it for some time. Accurate, very light recoil, and impressive performance. I liked it enough that I decided to build a custom lefty in the Swede. It's a LH Ruger M77 MK II with a 22" 1-8" Krieger in a McMillan MK II Classic and a Timney Trigger. I've had good luck with 140g partitions at about 2700 fps, 140g Corelocts, and 130g Accubonds. I've gravitated towards using the Accubonds with RL-22. This rifle goes to the woods with me more than any of my other rigs.

Thanks guys, for the translations as well as the dictionary!

Whenever I come across a new one to me, I google and it's there, so many acronymns now since text messaging, etc.

Ammoguide.com
6.5X55 IMP
140 gr bullet at 2891 fps 2597 ft-lbs
http://ammoguide.com/cgi-bin/ai.cgi?sn=VWuOSCrjOd&catid=411

HERE IS MY 1896 6.5X55
It is all original except the richards stock and the stainless sleeve filed with accuglass it is very accurate I only use the 85 and 100 bullets in it I have shot 4 deer with 2 with each bullet dropped them where they stood.
a very good rifle for being 114 years old.
SLEEVED 29" 1 INCH STRAIGHT BARREL & richards thumbhole
[img:center][/img]

WOW!!! Lassie, that is GORGEOUS! Nice job, indeed.

I'd be afraid to do that much to mine, it just works too well to mess with... yours is a lot easier to look at, though!

Noticed you kept the trigger... good call. I've never had a problem with mine.

Here is another 1896 6.5X55 I fitted a
remington 22-250 barrel on it
with a Richards Apache thumbhole it
was a lot of work
about 30 hours just on the stock but it
turned out very nice too.
Same on this one as the other only different
barrel and stock
[img:center][/img]

If your's is still original don't do any thing to it it is worth more like it is than if you change one thing on it don't even bend the bolt for a scope.
you can not find them anymore the one's I have I bought in shotgun news for $79.00 each about 1997 wish I had bought 20 of them now.
You can put yours in a Boyd's thumbhole stock for $69.00 but do not get rid of the german stock it came with

Well, I have the stock, but I already performed the mods to it. I had a 4" cut & crown, removed the rear sight, weaver mount installed forward of the action (scout style so I didn't have to mess with the bolt), and a drop-in McMillan.

Since I had the mods done, I don't think its ever turned in a 1" group! I made a really pretty .75" group at 250 yards with 140 grs NPT's over 41 grs of IMR-4350. And I never planned on selling it, anyway, so the value doesn't really mean anything to me. I bought it originally for just over $200 about 4 years ago, and even with the original open sights I had pretty regular 1.5"/100 yd groups.