Seriously I wonder why use a 30-30 TODAY instead of a 308 Win. I understand liking LEVER action rifles, light, short, fast handling. There are 308s in LEVER actions & IMHO they are in higher quality guns, some have rotary mags, some clips, & most of the time better accuracy.

I AM NOT TRYING TO START ANY ARGUMENT or BLAZING FLAME!! We have enough of that going on NOW.

If you NEVER cross an open field or pasture, pipeline, powerline, etc. I guess you don't need the flatter trajectory and higher retained vel. & energy of a 308,7-08,243. With a 308 you still have 30 cal. holes.

These are my thoughts & questions. Why 30-30, NOT 308?

JWALL
_________________

Son I Don't Know You Well Enough To Miss You......Johnny Cash

There's a reason the 30-30 is alive and well for over 100 years.

It just plain works.

Cause the only thing I'd use a .308 for is in something belt fed for commies and jihadis. But that's just me.

.....................That`s why Marlin intro`d a 308 lever and Hornady intro`d the Leverevolution ammo. Offers a more powerful, flatter shooting and longer ranged alternative with more downrange energy over and above the 30-30 for those who still prefer hunting with the lever actions.

On the other hand, many don`t need the additional power over and above the 30-30, because their ranges may not ever exceed 150-200 yards. And many won`t dump the 30-30 cartridge, that in their minds, is still a "classic" lever round of which it is.

By the same comparisons and in bolt actions, that`s why we have more powerful 30s over and above the 308, more powerful 7s over and above a say a 7x57 or 7/08, more powerful 338s over and above the 338 Federal and on and on we could go.

If a person prefers a lever to hunt with, and the hunting terrain is in far more open country the majority of the time, then a 308 lever is a far more practical alternative than a 30-30 lever.

But I tend to agree. You can still use a more powerful and longer ranged round in shorter ranged brush and timber country, whereas a shorter ranged round like the 30-30 would not be the best in the wide open country.

But classics are classics, and the `ol 30-30 is still one of them.

i have one . model 94, fired five rounds out of it. i just can't believe i have one. loaded 125 sierra, pretended it was 25-35.

I often hunt mule deer in the typical wide-open spaces and usually carry some sort of flat-shooting, scoped, bolt action rifle. They work great. One day last season, I knew I was going to spend most of the day at closer quarters, and grabbed the ol' .30-30 Marlin with peep sights. No, I didn't happen to get a shot that day, but it sure was a joy to carry, and would have worked just fine had I a shooting opportunity that day.

I've used pretty much all the more powerful, flatter-shooting rounds available, over the last 50 or so years - but for the last 10 or so, I've found I can do without the attendant muzzle blast & recoil, and have reverted to the .30-30 & .300 Savage for all my shooting on game larger than small game/varmints.

FWIW, the .30-30's cheaper to feed, too.

.

Sometimes enough it enough, else we'd all be driving F450's.

Besides, I like a rimmed cartridge much better in this platform.








Plus they make great berry picking guns. I've rung steel, albeit a big piece, at 750 or so yards with the below rifle. I'd not want to be a person if the need arose.

My eyes are only good enough for 300 yards...LOL, so the Marlin works great. Took a 6x6 bull at 110 yards with one 30-30 LeverEvolution round. He did not move...just quivered and dropped.

Hang around a while and you'll learn !

To the issue at hand, I'll defer to Steelhead...

Another question that I'd ask of you, though... why one or the other?

Again, hang around a while and you'll learn loony-ism doesn't ask "why this vs. that?", but "why not both?"

I'll add to my cabinet (which already contains a M94 30 WCF w/ Williams reciever & high vis front sight) a BLR breakdown in 308 Win someday I'm sure !

The original .30WCF was the Winchester Mod '94 then came Marlin and Union Metallic Cartridge Co not wanting to jump on Winchesters bandwagon and called it the 30-30 aka .30 caliber and 30 grains of powder..Sound familiar back in those days.

Up until fairly recently, I owned two Winchester '94's in 30-30 and now just one..One of the greatest "truck Guns" ever made and it puts the smack on game with those flat point and RN bullets.

Sighted in +3.3 inches high at 100 yards, +2.8 at 150 yards, 0 at 200 yards, -5.7" at 250 yards, and -14.7" at 300 yards your not having to aim above an Elks back at 300.

Jayco

The only currently made lever in 308 Win that I'm aware of is a Browning BLR. I find a Winchester/Marlin handles easier and is easier to work on, plus they ain't a Browning.

If you are going to get a Browning BLR in 308 why not get one in 300 WSM?

.............On the Marlin web site, they show 308 levers. 22" and 24" barreled versions. Woodys and laminated.

Reading is fundamental. Show me one on Marlin's website that is chambered for a 308 Win (Winchester) and I'll kiss you sister's black cat's ass.

Are those 308 Wins or that... ahem... "innovative" 308 Marlin or whatever the flash-in-the-Hornady-innovation-for-the-sake-of-innovation-pan it was called...

If you shoot cast lead bullets, the 30-30 has all the case capacity you can use. If you shoot cast lead in a 308, then you're having to work on the problem of how to get a consistent load with less than a full case of powder.

I'm one who shoots 100 rounds at the range for fun for every 1 round I shoot at game. Heck, make that 250.

So one good reason for the 30-30 is I can rip through 100 rounds, spend only $15, and have a great time at the range on the cheap. Did you know that if you get your bullet in just the right place under a grapefruit size rock, you can pop it several feet in the air? Now that's a useful skill, right there.

As a bonus, it makes a great round for my early teenage grandsons to hunt deer with. If they can get within 150 yards, they can slay Bambi and not end up with a flinch from too much recoil and muzzle blast.

Easy one him, he's from California.

It's the .308 Marlin Express, close but not the same.The Marlin 336 action lacks the strength to get right up there with the big boys,including Winchester leverguns.

There trying though with the 308 and 338 Marlin Express's.

Jayco

.............You`re right! But still a 308 diameter anyway uh? Don`t have a sister with a black cat.

Maybe the OP made the same mistake as me too? Thinking the 308 chambered for the levers was a 308 Win?....Oh well!

The Marlin 336 in 30-30 was only proofed at 55,000 PSI while the Map of the .308 Winchester is around 62,000 PSI.



Jayco

Yea, he was thinking about the 308 Marlin, that's it, the rotary magazine and clip mention is a dead give away.........

The 3030 in a lightweight lever is better for young hunters; a little less recoil in the same weight rifle and less muzzle blast. Ammunition is cheaper, and cast bullets work better in the 3030.

I see the original posts point; there are great lightweight bolt action carbines chambered for the 308, which I prefer over the 3030 levers, the 308 has superior ballistics, and the additional muzzle blast and recoil is not a great amount.

If I get a lever rifle it will be a pistol caliber or something like a 45-70.

I think that the 3030 may actually start to decline, and pistol calibers along with big thumpers will rule the levers. The 308 and 708 bolt carbines will also decrease the 3030 popularity.

Steelhead: I'm not particularly a lever afectionado, so don't keep up w/all current models. However NONE of us limit our selection of guns to current production, i.e. pre 64 M70s et.al.

308s can be had in Savage 99, Win88, + BLRs and maybe others??

I'm ENJOYING the different views, and even application. Log Cutter gives me a VIEW of 30-30 I would have NEVER envisioned.

NO, not the marlin, rotary mag AS OF Savage 99 <"reading is fundamental">

KEEP ON I'M LISTENING.

JWALL
___________________

Son I Don't Know You Well Enough To Miss You........Johnny Cash

I even run several levers in 300 Savage, which ain't as good as a 308 Win either apparently.

You can get 30/30 ammo at a gas station, it's inexpensive and they are nice carrying rifles that will kill stuff just fine in the ranges that a good percentage of stuff is killed.

The 308 Marlin Express was made more from the .300 Savage(47000 psi) than the 308 Winchester(62000 psi).

Who knows whats to come from Remington(bought out Marlin) as they dropped the 450 Marlin from there 2011 catalog and Hornady quit making 450 Marlin brass.

Not a good sign!!!!

Jayco

Scott,

What stock is that on the lever gun or is the wood coated with something?

Why the 30-30? Well, to begin with, there are millions of hunting rifles so chambered in this country. The combination works. The old adage "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." is sensible and true. Many guys don't see the need in buying another rifle chambered in a cartridge that is a bit better for shooting at longer distances than the one they already have. While those of us who can be described as rifle loonies willingly accept any reason to buy yet another rifle, many serious hunters don't buy into that mind set. They use what has worked well for them for many years, the classic 30-30 lever gun.

FWIW, I have several 30-30 lever action rifles but don't usually hunt with them. I simply prefer something else. That doesn't make me question another man's choice of rifle or cartridge.

Ready for it?

Ramline

Iam thinking taraus make it rossi is taraus now .Also maybe henry also in the 308 winchester

As only a slight tangent, I frequently observe that being the first kid on the block to own something new isn't always the best idea. Often, it's best to wait until something has proved itself for a while - like a few decades - before you jump on its bandwagon.

Owners of a WSSM, a 30 TC or a Remington ETronix rifle might agree.

There are very few rounds more proven than the 30-30. The 300 Savage and the 308 are almost 60 now, plenty time to know that neither one is going to fade away any time soon. Good choices.

In 60 years, ask about the 338 Federal or the 450 Marlin or any other of the wunderkind rounds that come out every third Thursday these days. I bet few will even remember them.

There is not a leveraction made today other than Browning and Rossi(based off the Winchester '92 action), that will handle a 62,000 MAP.

Jayco

I agree,Rocky.

If you remember back a couple years ago,Marlin was coming out with the 480Ruger and 475 Linebaugh in there '95 action levergun..Had them cataloged and everything,then just dropped both..Why,Pressure on that Marlin action was to much..

I only own the basic calibers and wound't even think of buying one of the new brain childs they seem to come out with every year.

Jayco

Why not?

..........The 30-30 has served its purpose well, given its limited capabilities for well over 100+ years. Sure it works, but only up to a point. Times change as well as cartridge development.

Given the longer ranged hunting styles of today, the 30-30 won`t be the first choice out of the gun safe for most.

It is, what it is. A short to moderate ranged brush and timber cartridge, which is chambered in a handy lever carbine.

JWall,

In all seriousness, I think a lot of us older hunters started with the .30-30... And, of course, there's the romance of the "Gun that won the west"... (Altho' we mostly know it was'nt a .30-30...)

A lot of us older phardts enjoy going back to what we started with... Perhaps as a way to visit our youth or just bring back old memories... Remembering younger days and simpler times...

As I surge into my 7th decade on this earth, I know that FOR ME HOW I take a game animal is more important than IF I take one or not. To put it another way...: The enjoyment is in the HUNT, not the RESULT.

To qualify the above: I have a trophy whitetail mount on the wall overlooking my shoulder as I write this. To add one or more will not mean a thing to anyone but me... In a few more years my daughter will have to clean out my home. Most of my possessions will end up given away or sold at a yard sale for a fraction of what I paid for them. There is really no need for more mounts to end up with that fate. Better I just use my time and resources to enjoy my life and a nice hunt here and there, and no need for anymore "trophys" ... Except in my memories...

GH

I can't answer for logcutter, but consider the WSSM rounds. Here you have rifles that are too short-actioned for almost any other round and have a breechface diameter unlike any other round. Guys who own them are faced - after only a very few years - with a disappearing brass supply and rifles that can't be converted to anything else.

Not to mention I picked up a nice 30/30 at a pawn shop recently for $199. Can't beat $199 for a ready to go deer/critter getter.

I did! I scored a beat-up Marlin 336 for $129 at a gunshop no less. That was smart. Gave it to my brother. Not so smart. Wish I still had it.

I bought one brand new for $159.

I have data from a guy that ran an experiment for Freedom Arms in loading the 454 Casull into a lever action..The Marlin '95 action was the first to go with a steady diet of 62,000 PSI in something around 20 shots fired,then next was the Winchester '94 with about 40 rounds fired..Both actions gave up the ghost..

One must also remember Winchester came out with the Big Bore version of the original '94 action which was alot stronger..Winchesters new Big Bore could handle the .307 Wiinchester(52,000) with ease..

Marlin then came out with the .307 Winchester in there '95 action(slightly stronger than the 336) and quickly took it off because it could not handle the pressure.

Jayco

Within the last year?

Jesus Christ Lee, give it a friggin rest and talk about REAL world knowledge.

Steelhead: Just INFO, just so it's NOT missed.

308 Win came in Savage 99s, some clip fed, others rotary mags.

Win. 88s came in 308 Win and the ones I remember handling had clips.

I'm ONLY talking about 308 Win.

JWALL

Hey...I was asked why not and answered it and even Rocky said he couldn't answer for me..And I did.

Let's not turn this into a piece of work like you always do..Just facts and experiences.

Jayco

You go on and on about what can and can't be. I'm thinking you should know all about can't concerning most anything.

Mine was free; my first centerfire, a 17th birthday gift from my Aunt & Uncle and the rifle with which I took my first deer.

Thing is, there is no real disadvantage to this rifle over a .308 Win in 99.9% of situations... the "why" as Steelhead pointed out implies that "bigger and faster is always better" which itself assumes that the practical difference between a lever in 308 Win and 30 WCF are bigger than what in my experience they really are.

And with your 46,000 post,you don't?

Let's just drop it or as I said before..PM me or e-mail me and we will talk openly.

jaycocreek@levergunlovers.com

Jayco

I ain't never been wrong nor prone to guessing.

Like most Bullies..You cut and run instead of backing it up..

PM or e-mail me and leave it off the open forum wrecking a good thread.

Jayco

I can use 30 grs. of IMR 4759 and a round nose 170 gr bullet in my son's 30-06 and he can shoot 30-30 type ammunition in his bolt action Mauser. 150 gr. RN are even less recoil.
whelennut

Back this up.

Yeah and your PM says only....

Tell the wife hello....

Man..Come fishing on me..

Jayco

So you say send a PM and now you post the PM. You are a [bleep] tool +P and easy to read. I never had a doubt that a little crying bitch like you would post the PM.

PS: I had that typed in a PM but decided to save you the work.

Here are some stats and data on cartridge and rifle availability, comparing the two (and many more also) that might be interesting, from ConsumerPla.net:

Cost Effective .30 Caliber Cartridges
Ammunition Survey: Best Rifle Cartridges Overall
Available .30 Calibers
Ammunition and Chamberings Surveys: Combined Availability
Review: Best Rifle Cartridges for 2011

This site has a wealth of information and stats on cartridge and chambering availability. They complied stats for how available cartridges are, and how available rifles are in different chamberings, used and new. You can see about 25 articles across all calibers and categories on the right hand side.

Their conclusion, by the way, is that 30-30 is extremely available right now, but that there are so few new chamberings for it that cartridge availability in 10-15 years might be much lower. FWIW...

FYI - I have a Marlin 336SS on 30-30, and a Brownling BLR 81 Takedown in 308. I love them both. The Marlin is great for hunting in the brush, and you don't have to worry abt recoil. The Browning is great in a more open field. No need to be exclusive:-)

These are my thoughts & questions. Why 30-30, NOT 308?

I hunt some super thick cover at times and "short" and "fast handling" aren't just "nice" things to have when a shot at a buck might be measured in feet rather than yards. A short .308 would work too, but the clean, old 94 is a smooth ride.

Likely the case I'm fairly certain.

As someone else also mentioned, it's a good cast bullet cartridge.

Talking about another mans wife you have never in your life met,is about as low life as a person can get and deserves to be publicized to let everyone else see what a piece of work you are.

Are kids next?

Jayco

Agreed, say hello is a terrible thing. I knew which way you would run with it. Victim fits you perfect.

And you know, I'm just flat out pissed because a member of the US Congress has been shot in the head, along with several others killed including a child.

I have neither the time nor patience for idiots today.

JWALL

I can say with experience,that the 30-30 has more of an effect on game to 200 yards than a .308 Winchester.

My best buddy has a Savage Mod 99 in .308 and I have seen countless Deer and Elk shot with it..My personal opinion is the Round Nose and Flat Nosed bullets out of the 30-30 have a better immediate effect than the pointy bullets of the .308 Win.

Call it the Berger effect,but it is there on descent angles.Bullets used is one of the virtues of the 30-30 over some others.

Jayco

Well, you did a good job of it by asking a silly question. Sometimes it's worth asking the question of yourself before punching the enter button, perhaps rephrased: What will a .308 kill that a .30-30 won't?

Well, if he hadn't hit the enter button we would never had heard Logcutter's pearls of wisdom!

More cheap shots over the public net..

What the hell is wrong with going outside and taking care of buisness..In this case..PM or E-mail..

Those that want to bash me,please do it in person or privately and leave the forum alone.

Jayco

Why, you post PM's? You are a funny victim and I'm not prone to throwing punches with women.

Winchester Chambered more that 8 million 94 in that cartridge. Marlin would add another 2 or 3 million. It just works. These days almost all of my deer hunting is in the hardwood wood lots of CT. A long shot here would be 50 steps. A 30-30 is plenty cartridge for that purpose and I personally would not think twice about shooting an elk with one. And they are light and well carry one for a week or two before you throw rocks at the window. This year it seemed my old 7 x 57 was needlessly powerful for the task.

If if works for ones desired objective, then why not?

I think it is quite unique when a guy ask a question on this forum and it turns into slurr's and garbage talk attacking others..Why..Because they can and get away with it.

Until Stealhead had to do his slam(first one),everyone was talking 30-30 versus .308..Denton and Rocky chimed in then it was over and turned into a slam bam...

And the internet chest thumpers continue rather than taking it off the forum like a man would......

If anyone wants to PM or e-mail me without mentioning my wife as if..Feel free to and it won't hit the pages.....Just be a man and say your piece without attacking my wife instead of me.

Many have and know that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jayco

30-30 or revolver ia my first choice hunting in the cedar swamp on the back of my property,60 yds. is a long shot.

Nostalgia. That's another good reason to shoot a 30-30.

I bought my first brand new 30-30 Win 94 at age 16. The price was $69.95 at the old Giantway store in Alma, MI. I traded it to Jay Poet the following year for $125 at the old Jay's Sporting Goods store in downtown Clare, MI.

Another lever-action rifle chambered in 308 Win was the Sako Finnwolf.

There's my "pearls of wisdom", so to speak. Before whom or "what" they are cast is debateable.

The .30-30 is more about the platform than the cartridge. Nothing I've tried packs as easily on a horse as a Model 94. The .30-30 shoots flatter than pistol cartridges and packs enough punch for most anything. Earlier this year, I ran into some coyotes and dropped one at 100 yards and the other at 175.

A .30-30 case AI'd and necked down to 6 mm would be an interesting project, but I don't have that much money to waste.

Oink oink !

I bought my last Winchester '94 30-30 for one of my sons for graduating High School with a 3.4 and it was $269..Times have changed,money wise, but the 30-30 hasn't.

Do you still have it Dave?

Jayco

I assumed you were the wife. You really should stick to what you know, converting oxygen to carbon dioxide.

Pretty intelligent/grown up answer!!!

Jayco

Vagina! That should have you in convulsions for an hour you silly twat

The last 30-30 bought into my immediate family? I think I was 10 or so. My dad bought a 'pre-64' Win 94 and a Sthil chainsaw from his father in law (my mother's dad) for 80 bucks total.

Rifle is 98% and the chain saw ran until about 7 years ago. He got his money's worth. Never hunted with that 94 but still occasionally hunt with a Sav M1899 in 30-30 for a giggles.

There really isn't anything I'd shoot with a 308 that I wouldn't with a 30-30, particularly with today's bullet offerings.

How old are you?

They have a show on TV called "Bully Beat down" taking loud mouthed vulgar twit's that beat women and children and pair them with a man, to see what they are made of.

Put in your app....

Your drunkin replies don't impress me much!

Jayco

Old enough to read sign and recognize a first class POS, though I don't generally talk this way to women, but you are the exception.

How long have you personally owned a 30-30?

Jayco

31 years.

Don't worry, your admission to owning one for 110 years means not a damn thing. You are very much the type of person that had 1 year of experience 110 times. Congratulations on every day being a new day.

How old are you?

I will be 62 in 3 weeks and my eldest son is 42?

Jayco

I'm older than your son

Okay...Step one.....Even though you won't state your age...

My first name is Ron..What is yours?

Jayco

The OP's question isn't as far fetched as I thought when I first read it. I can picture a young guy just starting out asking that very question- someone who maybe has been exposed to a boat-load of slick magazine writing, TV hunting shows, and advertising (letting said stuff influence his understanding of real-world shooting) and hasn't personally experienced the "less really is more" beauty of this hoary (look it up) round.

I've been around the barn a few times in over 40 years of rifle shooting and find myself always coming back to the .30/30-class of cartridges. They work, period. My choice for a day at the range? A couple of .30/30's (or one of it's kissin' cousins) ranging from carbines to target rifles and a sack full of reduced cast bullet loads. My choice for a day spent mooching around the deer woods? .30/30 (or .303 Savage). My choice for a day of varmint hunting? Probably not a .30/30. My choice for "big game" hunting ( whatever that means)? Probably not a .30/30. My point? Pick the right tool for the job at hand, that works for you (and don't sell the old stuff short just because it's "old").

P.S. by the way, the .300 Savage is 91 years old this year, not 60.

Heywood

Naw..I no better..Scott..

See,fear is a mans worst enemy, that makes him make mistakes he normally would not.


Jayco

No, it's Heywood Jablome.

The fact that you think 1) there is any fear in me and 2) that I've made a mistake, only further proves how obtuse you truly are.

Do you know anything about the Basque population and there tradition for a son to be a man?

Jayco

I'm not into that sick stuff.

It is mild to shoot and kills well to 125-150 yards with today's ammo.

It makes for a great starter deer round for our smaller younger hunters. They don't develop bad habits like flinching and trigger jerking as readily.

Besides, it is a cool old round that brought us here in the USA into the smokeless powder age. It also works well in combination guns like Steelhead's beautiful drilling.

gnoahhh: I'm not a novice or young(no offense taken)either. I'm 61yr. and been shooting & hunting since a child.

My question is posed based upon RETROSPECT from my perspective. I can't think of ONE ocassion IN MY EXPERIENCE where a 30-30 would have been preferred to 308,243,270,06,etc.

From my hunting experience a LEVER 308 would have done everything BETTER than a 30-30. Just IME.

REMEMBER from my experiences: I have seen & heard of a few HERE where the 30-30 is QUITE appropriate. In this discussion some may see another caliber to be better suited. OTHERS may see that a 30-30 is just what they need.

THANKS to EVERYONE who has offered useful info.
There's been too much material OFF SUBJECT and UNREQUESTED but it seems that happens on nearly every subject.

Any or All pertinent info & discussion is INVITED.

JWALL
_______________

Son I Don't Know You Well Enough To Miss You..........Johnny Cash

To think the majority of the old timers that settled this area used the likes of the .25-35/30-30/32 Special and the big boomer/35 Remington all in lever actions.

Quick handling lever/saddle guns with devastating round nose and flat point bullets from chipmunks to big Bears fed there families and ammo for most was everywhere..

Jayco

My apologies sir, for my part, in what should never have happened..It ends here for me!!!!

The 30-30 is one of those let's beat up on it calibers on the net,for the most part,yet I know several people still alive that only use there beat up 30-30's because it is one of the best saddle guns and truck guns and the flat point and round nosed bullets,do more harm than alot of the new ones.


Jayco

I don't agree about doing more harm, whatever that is.

logcutter: Apology accepted & I didn't feel you owed me one, but THANKS anyway.

I considered for quite some time before posting this question. I tried to make it clear the time frame and perspective from which I asked. It's IMPOSSIBLE to put in words EVERY thot & intent of any question or subject unless VERBOSITY & BLOVIATION are used.

I've seen the ridicule and accusations of some, which if they had PAID ATTENTION to OP, were unnecessary. I have CHOSEN to ignore most of them.

My philosophy is Don't Fuel a Fire & It'll Go Out.

The MAJORITY of this discussion has been interesting and some of it enlightening. I've seen a few different perspectives. I might be wrong but I think others COULD benefit from one side or the other.

THANKS AGAIN

JWALL

.30-30's okay if you haven't got a .303 Savage.

JWALL

Yes..We have some arrogant idiots here that slam people just for asking a question they are curious about...

Anyone and I mean anyone that answers with something like this has been asked 10 zillions times or your question is stupid,is a poor one to listen to on anything.

Some people want the glory but don't have any patients for the new guys and are probably bad parents.

One of my good friends in McCall Idaho shoots Elk every year with his Marlin 30-30 and I dare any person here to tell him anything..He is one tuff SOB.

No flies on the 308 either.It's all your point of aim and the bullet used!!!!!!!!

Jayco

I've got both, and tend to carry the .308 more than the .30-30, due more to sighting system rather than the distance potential of the cartridge. As a matter of fact, I've killed a deer at a longer distance with the .30-30 than I have with the .308, but would have preferred the latter. Nonetheless, familiarity with the rifle and it's trajectory allowed me to make the shot.

The .308 is a Ruger Hawkeye All-Weather with a Leupold scope, the .30-30 is a Winchester M94 (non-AE) with a Williams FP rear sight and Marble's front sight.

Where and how I hunt, most shots will be within 100 yards, typically half of that, so either one is quite usable.

I just got back from the range sighting in my .45-70 that I had just installed a Leupold FX-II 2.5 Ultralight on, and using Speer 300 grain UniCors at 2200 fps, got groups from .970" to just over 1.5" at 100 yards. This bullet, at this speed, closely duplicates a .30-30's trajectory.

The Ruger and the Winchester may be out of a job next year (grin).

The Unicore is out and the Swirl is in....The Unicore is a much better bullet..Hope you stocked up on the Unicores,I did along with the 300 Nosler Partions,also replaced with a 300 ballistic tip.

Jayco

the $14.00 box of cartridges at Walmart, the 15-100 yard deer you always see, the sound concept posted here so often that killing is easy, but opportunity to do so is scarce, the fact that muzzle blast is less and a good rifle can be had for much less than a shiny pot metal trigger guarded Browning Abort in 308.

It's a very under rated handgun cartridge. I have a Pachmayr Dominator in 30/30 that is big fun to shoot.

Brian.

It's not about the calibers used,but the bullets used..It is amazing how so many underestimate the powers of a Flat Point or Round Nosed bullet on game.

Some far surpass what we have to choose from now in killing power.


Jayco

Jayco,

Actually, by saying "oink, oink" efw was showing that he understood the inferrence in my last post wherein I typed "There's my "pearls of wisdom", so to speak. Before whom or "what" they are cast is debateable." That line refers to Christ's admonition to the apostles to not "cast your pearls before swine", or in other words, don't waste time preaching the gospel to those who would not accept it (specifically, the gentiles). The wink he added to the end of his post tells us he meant no flames, just having fun. At least I think so, anyway. Thank God for Paul, the apostle to the gentiles.

No, I don't have that 94 now. I traded it for a good old Remington M740 in caliber 30-06 because I could mount a scope on it and have a rifle with longer effective range. That 740 shot extremely well with my handloads. Actually, I wish I still had both rifles today, but you know how I am with rifles.

I've never been interested in still hunting. I like to stalk. (not claiming to be very good at it, mind you)

A lever 30-30 outfitted with a receiver sight is an excellent stalking rifle for Kentucky's terrain.

I also like the challenge of making a lever 30-30 *work*.

It takes a bit of load development to get accuracy out of the higher velocity loadings,..but that's what makes it fun.

A 6 lb lever rifle that can launch 150 grain bullets at 2400 fps and put them into 3 MOA is a nice tool for a lot of purposes.

I'm in the midst of a 30-30 jones right now,..although the 99 is a .243.

BLC2 and the 130 grain Speer FP makes the 30-30 a poor man's .243.

The .308 has it's place too.

Check out the "Plinking" bullet. Same item number, just in another category....same price, too...

Somebody mentioned earlier it's as much about the guns as the cartridge. That's absolutely true. There's a lot of fine hunting guns out there chambered in 30-30. No reason not to use them just because of a few hundred feet per second.

For scores of hunters the difference in power is meaningless because the shots taken just aren't long enough to matter either way. Dead is dead. I see hunters around here with 30-30's all the time and they do just fine with them. I guess they haven't been reading internet forums enough to know their rifles aren't adequate anymore .



I agree. I'm hunting with the close relative 7-30 Waters in a 14" Contender. Drops 'em plenty fast enough for me. Low recoil. Rimmed cartidge. Dirt cheap 30-30 brass. Long case life. Great accuracy. What more could you ask for?

Quit makin' sense.

Hint:

Those still flat f'kin' work.

Little blast, little recoil, great deer/hog bullets. What more could you ask for?




Inherited this one back from my Dad, My sister and I bought it for him for Christmas one year. Being from Indiana where you couldn't use a centerfire rifle to hunt deer he didn't have a deer rifle.

Mike

I need a 7/30 Waters somethin terrible. I've already got dies, brass and bullets. Now I just need a gun to shoot em out of.

Brian.

I wouldn't mind having a 7-30 waters, but there's not enough different types of flat point bullets available in 7mm to make it interesting.

..........Hint: I agree!.......As a short to moderate ranged brush and timber cartridge, the 30-30 works just fine.

I killed deer this past year with both. The .308 runs the same bullets 500 fps faster, and to me is more of a good, general purpose big game round for light rifles.

I'm sorta on a kick for smaller cartridges for deer, that still do an adequate job. The .30-30 fits that mold nicely, as it has for a long time. A single shot lets you use any bullet you want.

Now all that said, why isn't there a +P .30-30 load? The Contender is also chambered by TC in the .375 Winchester, which is the same head size as the .30-30, and much higher pressure. There's now Ruger #1's in the caliber, and other strong rifles, so it seems to me one could judiciously run the .30-30 a little hotter.

Besides, 30/30 sounds cool, 27/30 would be queer.

Yep.

The rifles chambered for the .30-30 make the cartridge.

The new lever Revolution rounds are real close to a .300 Savage which does everything I need a deer cartridge to do inside of 225 yds. I am OK with killing an elk with one also.

In a Savage 99E or F the .308 without a pad or a scope can be uncomfortable.

Everybody's zeroing in on the .30/30 as a hunting round. It also makes for a mighty fine target rifle, especially in a purpose-built heavy gun and fed cast bullets. In fact I can't think of any other current commercial round that equals it in that capacity. It's case capacity is nearly perfect for a cast bullet launcher IMO.

I think that, in many cases, a cartridge's popularity over similar cartridges has more to do with the way the name rolls off the tongue than with any practical advantage.

'nother thing people are missing.

Consider what Joe Public sees when he looks at the gun racks in a store. Joe ain't a rifle loonie like most here, but just a semi-informed average citizen looking for a hunting rifle.

For not very much coin, with a lever action Joe Public gets what feels and looks like a complete rifle, iron sights to be sure, but complete.

For the same price he can get a bolt action, usually without sights, or if a complete scoped set up you get a rifle/scope combo conspicuously built cheap to meet a price point.

The fact that a great many lever actions end up wearing a similarly cheap scope is beside the point, the original purchase had been made.

I know because I followed this route, except that the scout scope set-up I have on order for my Marlin cost me more than the rifle did.

If sales of new lever actions are falling, the lever actions may be the victims of their own past success. I believe there is something like five million Winchester and three million Marlins .30-30 lever guns out there. Most get used once or twice a year if that, and consequently do not wear out.

My own Marlin 336 is 44 years old and still functions good as new. Lots of lever guns are like that, eight million mostly working examples still in circulation while the number of hunters nationally stays about level or even declines.

I believe .30-30 ammo will stay in wide circulation so long as it sells, as it apparently still does at present (contrary to those links posted, I can usually find .30-30 at least as commonly as .223 or .308).

If/when .30-30 usage does decline, I believe this will signal a fundamental change in the hunting demographic: A shift away from Joe Public and his low-cost hunting oppportunities towards more specialized rigs owned by those serious enough and with the means to spend on higher dollar trips/leases or the like. The way hunting seems to be going in very many places.

If or when we do lose Joe Public, it will not portend well for the future of hunting in this country.

Birdwatcher

That may be part of it,..but I suspect that many who have been involved with rifles and hunting have passed through their "Belted 8mm Webley Vickers AI" phase and found that those 6 lb 30-30 lever rifles that have been around forever carry much better, shoulder much better, are quicker with a second shot and will take that buck they shoot from their tree stand at 75 yards every year as well as a loudenboomer.

There's a lot to be said for simplicity.

Down this way "still hunting" is stalking. Describe your version...

http://www.petersenshunting.com/content/art-still-hunting

Well,...my personal version is to descend into a "holler" at daybreak and very quietly, very slowly, work my way along it,...facing the wind,..hugging close to the inside of any bends.

It's how I used to hunt the dry creekbeds with my .22 when I was a kid, and a mountain holler is much the same,..only on a larger scale.

You can get very close to game like that on occasion.

I've never turkey hunted like that, but there's been several times that I've gotten within 30 yards of a turkey before flushing them when stalking wild hogs down in the hollers.

These are single shots we're talking about not lever actions so any bullet can be used. The round still may not interesting but for many handgun hunters a 7-30 loaded with say 120gr Ballistics Tips is a formidable hunting arm.

When you can stalk to within a few yards of a turkey of small flock, then withdraw w/o them being aware, then you will have your doctorate in still hunting. JMO. Takes face net and general cammo cover, most of all it takes moving really slowly.

Been ragging a friend of mine to get his azz off the ladder stands and go after them for a year or so. He finally did that yesterday and though he did not see a deer, he did bust a coyote at about 20 yards. He says the .270 Win. is enough gun. Might downsize that and says he'll never sit in a stand again.

I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment of losing "Joe Public" not being good for hunting. They're in a sense "the silent majority". The millions of outdoorsman who spend their time hunting and fishing and not on the couch watching outdoor tv or playing grab-ass on the internet .

In terms of expensive and specialized equipment, I think that's mostly a marketing image. I see Cajuns all the time here in the swamps with nothing more than the most basic of equipment. In mind they're ten times the serious outdoorsman as the local range jockey with all the expensive gadgetry.

This is about the twentieth time in the last 40 years that I've heard Chicken Little cry out that the .30/30 is on the way out, yet it just keeps chugging along doing it's thing. I think it is a prime example of a cartridge designer getting it right the first time, along with, but not necessarily limited to, the .30/06, .308, .375 H&H, .222/.223, .300 Savage, etc.

It is, in its own way, efficient. I have been pleased at how this Contender barrel shoots, and will definitely experiment more with it in the future. Maybe I can justify that Ruger #1A in .30-30, after all.

Well I didn't get all the way through this thread and I added another member to the Ignore group. And it wasn't Logcutter.

Jim

Why do I have 3 .30-30's that I routinely hunt with as well as
shoot, and only 1 .308? I guess because the're 'task specific'
and I have more 'tasks' for the .30-30's. (Not to mention fun.)
(I'm concerned about wearing out my .30-30 dies. My .308 dies will probably live to be LNIB family heirlooms, despite the fact that I also reload for my boys in this caliber.)

For short range deer hunting, the 30-30 is great. The rifles (Winchester and Marlin) are light, easy to carry, accurate and VERY effective. 'Nuff said.

I just noticed it - there are 14 pages on this thread. Any cartridge that lives 116 years, is still popular and effective has proven its mettle.

Well after reading 14 pages of this I'm going to step into the pit with my .02 cents.

Alot of good things have been said, one of which the rifles have made the cartridge. The Marlin 1893's, 36's and now 336's are well built, good handling, tough little guns. Take into account the Winny 94 and you have about 10 million guns floating around, so is the 30-30 on its way out..NOT. Oh sorry, Henry and Mossberg(again) make them now too.

Now take the cartridge itself, it just gets the job done in about 95% of the situations it is used for. Here in New England and i'll go to include the Northeast(PA and NY) it is still widely used and again gets the job done(can't speak for other areas but suspect the same in the southeast, pacific NW, etc.). Is the 308 a better round??? Yes it is, Is the 30-06 better than the 308? Yes it is and both can be had in lever guns.

Other advantages, cheap ammo, low recoil, cheap to reload with adequate power and speed for deer and other med game within 150-200 yds..what is not to like.

Now back to the 308 and 30-06 lever guns. The Browning BLR, Savage 99 and Winny 1895, say what you want, are not as well balanced and handling as the Marlin 336 and Winny 94, except for maybe the 99 and there you can get it in the 30-30 also.

Yes, I do love the 30-30, first CF rifle I owned, 1st to take a deer for me. Do I use it anymore, on occassion as now my interest have gone to lightweight, fast handling bolt guns. In my last 10 yrs of hunting, I can only think of one shot I took where the 30-30 would not have worked.

"Well, my 30-30's a bolt action" (sung to the melody of "Neener, Neener, Neener"). I want to get another Marlin sometime soon.

My 'smith just sent me one of those "neener, neener, neener" emails w/ pics of his newly-purchased Model 54 in 30 WCF.

Hubba-freakin-hubba!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Made in 1929!?!?!?!? AMAZING!!!!!!!!!!

Mar336---

What 120 grain bullet were you loading in the 7-30 for deer? Hornady stopped producing the 140gr flat nose bullet. I made up a spare take-down barrel for my .303 99 Savage because I couldn't get .303 brass, and now I can't get 140 grain flat-nose bullets for the 7-30 barrel. I'm guessing that 120 gr bullets would be short enough to feed in the old style '99 receiver. I have plenty of brass, but have not seen loaded ammo for years.

I was at a gun show about 2-3 years ago, and Winchester or whoever bought them, were selling model 1895(I think)rifles in 30.06. How is that for power in a lever action?

I dont mean to be the bullseye in the middle of a back side but there might be 14 pages of converation that may or may have any bearing on my opinon. BECAUSE I CAN... why not .308vs7mm-08, .30-06vs.280Rem.vs.270Win. .35Rem vs .30-30 and many many others. Regardless of what one feels is better vs another Im just happy that we have so many options to play with and tinker with.

inland44: I'm glad too. My question, even tho not specifically worded, was/is WHY WOULD you choose the 30-30 INSTEAD of 308.

SOME have given a few good reasons they choose the 30-30 and I understand their point. I guess where I have been hunting for many years I encounter more open territory, either hunting or going to or from and I feel more PREPARED with a flatter shooting cartridge.

I'm NOT a 308 lover, JUST FLATTER TRAJECTORIES. I mentioned the 7-08,243,etc. in OP because they are/have been available in lever actions.

I have owned Savage 99s, & BLRs but currently don't own or hunt with ANY lever action. Win. 9422M exception NOT for deer. For my money the BLR 20" bll. is just as HANDY as the 336 or 94.

I'm surprised that the majority have spoken up for the 30-30 and ONLY a few even mentioned the advantage of 308,etc.

I SINCERELY thank ALL OF YOU for your serious responses.

JWALL
_______________

Son I Don't Know You Well Enough To Miss You.........Johnny Cash

Jwall,

we all go through phases in life where our opinions change. If you live on the east coast and have been burning 70 grains of powder per shot to take a 100 yard deer you may reach a point that you grow some and then want to hunt just in order to hunt and not so much feel like you have to burn that much powder per shot to do it. Then the economy makes us all frugal these days and the 30-30 is right at the top of the list there. So the way I look at it many are always fretting about that 300 yard shot that they never seem to get a chance at because they are in the "gimmicks are everything" phase of their hunting lives. Others have passed that point and realize that lots of stuff is important not just how much powder your gun burns per shot.

jimmyp: 10/4; Some years back I hunted open mature hardwoods. There a 30-30 and almost ANY centerfire would work. Unfortunately, I moved from that area and later the timber was harvested. I MISS IT to this day. I hunted a Ruger Ultra Lite 308 Win and/or BLR 358 among other calibers.

Since '86 I have been a member of two different deer leases, not at the same time. Both leases have had power lines, pipe lines, rr trams, CUTOVERS etc.

In 010 I made one shot at 260 yds >DRT lasered

In 09 I made one shot at 289 yds > DRT lasered

In 08 I made one shot @ 225-230 yds > DRT

DON'T MEAN TO BRAG seriously, IIRC at least 9 deer have been harvested including the 3 above in an area where any SHORT RANGE, SOFTBALL TRAJECTORY would have PREVENTED me from even taking a shot.

I'm 61 yrs old and have been hunting since childhood, handloading since '75. I'm still using calibers capable of making more than SHORT RANGE shots. I SERIOUSLY posed the O P question because of PRESENT & PAST hunting opportunities. FOR ME WHERE I HUNT a 30-30 would be a sevier limitation.

JUST FOR CLARIFICATION, no offense taken.

JWALL

Why would anyone use a 308 when they could use a 30-06? Why would anyone use a 30-06 when they could use a 300WM?

Maybe the reason people use the 30-30 is because it works for the way they hunt, not the way you hunt. Maybe because for deer size game inside of 150 yards it kills as well as anything out there. Dead is dead, no matter the cartridge or caliber.

I'll be taking a 30-30 to Wyoming next year for antelope because it is fun to use. Is it ideal? No. Will it be fun? Yes.

I choose the 30-30 when I'm more interested in enjoying the hunt and less interested in killing something. I've killed many an animal and still do each year, but it's not just about the killing.

You took the words out my mouth. The classic magnumitis argument.

JWALL- You're asking the question looking for an answer to be given soley in terms of paper ballistics. What everyone is telling you is that they look at all kinds of other things besides paper ballistics when deciding to hunt with a 30-30.

My first deer rifle was a single shot 30-30 my dad gave me. Ballistics are the furthest thing from my mind when I take it out.

We all hunt differently. I like to hunt animals within bow shot so a 30-30 is more than enough gun. If you like to hunt pastures and powerlines then take a 308 and have a gas with it. Doing what makes you happy is what hunting is all about.

KodiakIsland & Mar336; I am NOT trying to convince or convert ANYONE.. I don't think y'all have read the OP. I focused on lever action rifles comparable to M94 & Mar 336.

The premise is DO YOU NEVER have the opportunity to see/shoot at longer ranges?

I'm NOT MAD or AGGRAVATED but don't ASSUME I'm pushing anything.
Rhetorical questions sometimes make us think or rethink.

JWALL

I'm not sure why you would think I haven't read the OP. That is pretty much all I have read.

Again, I'll ask you, why stop at the 308. If more is better, then why aren't you using a 300 mag?

I have the opportunity to kill many animals every year at all sorts of distances. Killing is not my primary reason for being there. I enjoy the hunting part more than the killing. If I have to pass up a buck because I can't make the shot, then so be it. You'd probably faint if you could see me hunting with a 32-20, trying to get within 20 yards.

Anyway, I have many rifles to choose from. If I really don't want to come home empty handed, I will probably be using a 7-08 or 358STA. If I'm more interested in enjoying the actual hunt, regardless of outcome, I probably have some short range open sight rifle or pistol in my hands.

My freezer stays full, so something must be working.

Maybe in part it is the same reasoning that many prefer to bow hunt over gun hunt. Maybe its the added challenge of short range that adds something to the hunt.

On any given day I might pick up my 30-30 bolt action, a 30-06, a 1917 Swede, or a very lightweight 308 carbine. Each has its limitations and advantages. Some days one pleases me, and some days another. I enjoy them all, or I wouldn't have them all.

Why would I hunt with a round nose cast bullet I made myself instead of a jacketed bullet driven to much higher speed? Because it pleases me.

Put this one page 1, and it may have saved 15 pages (not likely though, and it has made for interesting reading :)).
By the sound of it, you've not hunted with a 30-30, which is your choice. Life is full of them. What works for you may, or may not, work for others. It seems like you went out of your way to say that you find the short range, softball trajectory 30-30 to be a sevier(?) limitation to your ability to your style of hunting, and in a roundabout way, question why anyone else would find it viable. There certainly are some posts from folks that find the 30-30 to be quite useful.
I'm always curious why people feel the need to start threads like this;, and find the need to say "seriously, no intention to brag, just for clarification, no offense taken"...... YMMV....

I've deer hunted in about 10 different states and the furthest shot to date has been @250 yards.


In the 3 years listed did you only shoot 1 deer each year?

I had been getting an itch to own a Marlin .30-30 for some time. A couple months ago my Dad ended up giving me his .30-30 quite out of the blue. It is an old JC Higgins 45 which was a Marlin 336 rebranded for Sears. It was unexpected and very much appreciated.

Thinking back to when I was a teenager I had remembered that specific rifle as being very smooth and very accurate. Taking it to the range with some of the leftover 170 grain Federal ammo Dad had really opened my eyes. Just as smooth to operate as I remembered and the fit and balance was perfect for me.

When shooting it was a real treat to shoot a rifle with so little recoil and yet with power enough for its intended purpose. Accuracy was the really pleasing part. So far with a couple boxes fired the worst group has put five shots into 2.25 inches. Three shots typically go around 1". For an iron sighted rifle I find this to be remarkable.

This spring I plan on hunting black bear in Quebec with it. I have a 35 Whelen I could use but I will likely use the .30-30. Black bears really aren't that hard to kill, foliage will make distances short, and the .30-30 is accurate enough and has the trajectory for shooting up to 200 yards in my opinion. It is compact, handy and utterly reliable. If I shoot well the 170 grain Nosler Partitions I plan to use will take care of things.

That has been about the distance of my furthest shot on deer, done with a .243. The second longest was 236 yards...with a .30-30 M94. All the rest have been typically under 100 yards.

I know you're not mad or pushing anything. Just asking an honest question. I should mention though that using all caps is akin to shouting on the internet. So when you type, "I'm NOT MAD or AGGRAVATED", people are reading that as though you actually are yelling at them .

To answer your premise question, eesentially no, I don't ever have the opportunity to see or shoot (while hunting, excluding the shooting range) at longer than 30-30 distances.

Growing up I lived in open country and back then longer shots were normal. Now that I hunt in heavily forested areas I don't want to hunt open areas anymore. Longer shots don't present themselves because I intentionally don't hunt where it's open enough to do that. I've only carried a high powered rifle once in the last two seasons. The rest is with a bow, black powder, or handgun.

If you typically set up on powerlines and bean fields then of course you're going to have more opportunities for longer shots and a 308 may make more sense than a 30-30.

Mar336: Thanks for a civil response and explanation. I have only used upper case type for emphasis not anger.

I never itended for this thread to be focused on me! I posed the question because in nearly all of my hunting even going to or from my specific hunting area there are open areas where deer can be seen and shot or shot at. This discussion might register with one or more that a flatter shooting rifle can be used in close woods hunting as well.

There have been many questions or points raised that have already been discussed in this thread and for time & space I have not reentered those discussions. It indicates some have not read the thread, just jumped into the middle not knowing the previous discussion.

I am not trying to convice or convert anyone to my type of hunting or shooting. There have been several answers or perspectives about why people choose a 30-30 that I respect. For instance one fellow uses one in the area where he lives or works and frequently bumps into elk. That is totally understandable and appropriate. It's similar to people who live and or work in whitetail country keeping a 30-30 handy.

OTOH if anyone traveled from any other state, even a state next door, would you expect them to bring a 30-30 as their primary rifle? I would not.

It seems to me that with nearly every question there is always someone or more than one who make the discussion personal and you know it often turns into name calling, cursing, etc. I don't intend to participate in such.

It seems to me that ADULTS (emphasis) should be able to discuss the pros/cons of hunting, guns, handloading, etc. w/o insults, hatred, and even threats.

I have said already that I appreciate and have seen some new perspectives from others about using the 30-30. Also I'm surprised that so few have even mentioned the 308 or other flatter shooting calibers. I sincerely expected more pro & con about the two positions instead of the majority being pro 30-30.
Maybe people thot I was attacking or demeaning the 30-30. That was not and is not my intent.

I would like to make a humorous comment. I spelled severe, sevier in a post. That was a "fraudulent" slip.>grin< In the city where I live we have a street name spelled "sevier" and it's pronounced "severe". I didn't even notice I used that spelling, it's so common a usage.

I could elaborate more on this thread but I've already said more than I intended. I wanted to HEAR (emphasis) not speak. THANKS to all who have expressed your perspectives & reasons.

JWALL
_______________

Son I Don't Know You Well Enough To Miss You........Johnny Cash

I have a .30-30 and a .308 in my cabinet. The .30-30 gets plenty of use every season while the .308 collects dust. All of my hunting is done in thick timber these days and the possibility of a shot beyond .30-30 range simply does not exist.

Hunting an unfamiliar area is a different ballgame. I would strongly take into consideration what the person you're hunting with recommends. Otherwise I'd take my 280AI and be confident it'll do whatever I need it for.

I lied earlier. I'd forgotten about carrying a 357 Maximum single shot carbine a couple times during the Mississippi PW season. When I was typing I was thinking of my longer range bolt guns. I took a deer last year with a 25-06 which was sort of a let down. A nice buck came out at about 25 yrds and I almost started to laugh when I put the cross hairs on him. A 300+ yrd gun with an expensive hubble telescope attached for an animal I probably could've killed with a hand-thrown spear .