What works best on 30 to 100 yard lung shots that results in minimum run? Last year, I used a 150 Sierra FN at 2300fps. On a large doe 50 yard broadside shot, entrance was tight behind the front leg about half way up. The bullet left a small exit hole, about the size of a pencil. The doe trotted away about 30 yards and stood on the other side of another doe, preventing a second shot. She then moved out of sight. I found her within a few minutes and had to shoot her again as she tried to run off. Both shots were right to left through the lungs just behind the front leg. Only one bullet exited. I assume that the first one did and the one from 30 feet didn't. There was massive damage to the lungs but no way to tell which bullet did what. I've used many calibers but this was the first time for the 30-30. Does it have enough velocity to ever work as well as say a 7mm08 or 308? I do like to have two holes, in case tracking is necessary.

What have you experienced with the 30-30? I'm about ready to go back to using my favorite 7mm08 and call it a day!

In a cup and core bullet, I like the Hornady's. If I wanted more, I would load Nosler Partitions.

I'm an "others" but have used the .30-30 on dozens of deer and pigs at those ranges. Winchester power points have never failed to work well for me, and I aim for the heart/lung.

Ella

Leon and Ella,

What bullet weights are you using?

Ella that about somes it up also Federals are also good.

If both lungs were smacked, a few seconds more you would have found a dead one. Use a 170 in your dirty 30 if you want thru and thru's at that close of range.....Russ

Anson
Might have just been a fluke- I have seen about 50 or 60 deer (and a few elk) shot with Ballistic Tips in a 270 and they all died quickly except two deer- Both deer were shot where you shot that doe. One, a whitetail doe, ran around the field for what seemed like forever before she tipped over. Her vitals looked like blood sausage. The other, a forkhorn mule deer, took three hits in the chest and his only reaction was to turn and present the other side of his hide to us. Finally he dropped, and I think we shot him again in the neck.
Never shot a deer with a 30/30 but have used the 32 Special, it's twin on a few deer and it was deadly with 170 grain Hornadys.

Fred

I also think it was a fluke most likely. I have killed several deer with the 30-30 and I like 150 grain bullets in the old soft nose but my last few have been killed with the Hornady Leverevolution which have given some great results.

I've killed alot of deer with the .30-30. Used 150 and 170 core-lokts, 170 Silvertips, 170 Fedral power shok's and 170 power points. All kill deer just about as dead as they're gonna get. The 170's do seem to penetrate a bit better and have always exited on broadside shots for me, even when one or both shoulders are hit. Lung shot deer typically run 40-60 yards and fall over dead with any of them.

I've used the old Winchester 150gr. Silvertips the most and have had great luck with them.

"Leon and Ella,

What bullet weights are you using?"

I lean towards the 170's but only because they shoot more accurately in my old Glenfield. I've used 150's as well and plan to use some this year as I bought a box of that weight by mistake. I've never noticed any meaningful difference.

Ella

My son favors 150 power points in his .30-30 { best accuracy} and we've recovered quite a few from his deer. They definitely don't penetrate as well as the 170's.

When I was loading a lot for a couple 30-30's I used the 170 Interlock bullets with really good success on deer.

Believe it or not, I've had one cup-and-core 150-grain roundnose factory bullet come apart on a doe whitetail's shoulder and fail to penetrate the chest cavity. Ever since I've used 170-grain Nosler Partitions, and they tend to put deer down pretty darn quickly, while always penetrating. This is because the front core of Partitions is a very soft lead alloy, and when combined with the round-nose it really opens nicely.

The same bullet really puts the hurt on woods deer when loaded in the .300 Savage.

I'm planning to try the Hornady 160 FlexTip this year if I use the 30-30. Did the FTX exit on your shots? Are you getting better results than with C&C bullets?

JB, that brings up a question.....if a particular bullet fails to perform as expected once, do you ever trust it again? Several people have said my experience may have just been a fluke. I thought that may have been the case too but it doesn't inspire confidence! Lack of penetration wasn't my problem. You wouldn't care to identify that bullet would you?

The 170 grain Core-Lokt Hollow Point has been wicked.

The Barnes X for the .30-30 is just nasty on deer.

This Deer ran despite massive damage both internal and external


Entrance





Exit





This Zebra ran despite this damage to the heart




Some just give up the ghost slower than others

The Partition only comes in 170 and I prefer the better accuracy of the 170 Hornady also.

170 grain Core-Lokt. Don't waste money on exotic bullets.

I have shot 4 deer and one hog with the Flextip only one didn't exit and it was shot into a quartering to #170 eight point at 100 yards. The bullet penetrated through the shoulder and almost 24 inches of deer and was under the hide at the last rib.

One of my early efforts with the Partition, a 150 in a 308 Win, left me questioning the bullet. Turned out the deer had no lungs to breathe with and no cage to contain and inflate the lungs, but it still ran. Oh, and it was bleeding out from the first of two shots, a shot that shattered the liver.

In the 30-30 I load the 170 Corelokt. It won't come apart unless you hit bones on the order of moose vertebrae, and that means things are going to fall. I had a lighter bullet fail to find the opposite side of a river otter once. The otter died right there, but having a bullet come apart and be stopped by an otter was not confidence instilling.

Remington Core-Lokt!!!!

You do not need Premiums for 30-30 speeds...Save yourself some bucks and do as the old timers did and do.


Jayco

My rifle just happens to like the Hornady 170 FP, so that's what I load.

Just about any of the bullets for a .30-30 are going to (terminally) perform well. Find the one your rifle likes and get as many as you can.

I buy bulk 150gr Rem core-lokts for my 30-30. Never fails to kill.

Last years deer:

I watched my father kill a lot of deer with a 30-30 and mostly core-lokt bullets over a lot of years. They died, but I was never all that impressed with them.

I tried the LeverEvolution 160s a couple years ago and bounced on off a rib without slowing the deer down, something I have seen happen with even 180 grain 30-06s.

I have never seen a Barnes not penetrate in a very straight line or bounce off bone in what amounts to a respectable number of deer now. So, I am going to try the Barnes 150 TSXs in mine this year. They open well at even reduced velocity (1600 FPS). I get 2400 FPS and itty-bitty groups using the LeverEvolution powder (35.5 grains). I don't see them not making two holes, and I don't see them deflecting off bone. At that speed they ought to tear up Bambi's internals.

I might know more come December, but I can't see them not working better.

Hornandy 150 RN. Works great, shoots accurately, costs little. What more do you need?

I've never witnessed a bullet "bounce" off an animal, but I have read about it a lot on the internet.

I reload the Ballistic Tip 125 grain for my Savage .30-30/12 guage and every deer hit so far has dropped to the shot. I was surprised that at 218 yards mthe bullet performed perfectly, and the accuracy ot the ballistic tips is phenomenal.

Terry

Ditto!!!!

Hmmm. I am surprised that nobody mentioned Speer Hot Cores (now deep curl I guess). That's what I've used in my 30-30 loads for over 20 years. I like 170's for accuracy and penetration. Have worked very well for me.

I find that heart/lung shot deer almost always run 50-100 yards. I'm not a neck shooter and would rather have the short run and know that I nailed the deer.

Thanks to everyone for your input. Sounds like each bullet and weight has it's followers and most people are happy with the 30-30 on deer.

I'll probably use one again this fall, most likely with the Hornady 160 FTX. After that, a 170 grain, most likely.

Remember when Remington Core Lokts were cheap? What happened? Now they are often times more expensive than most of the other brands. They sure aren't finished as well or as consistent in length. I used hundreds of them for Cowboy Silhouette but never hunted with a 30-30 then.

Hornady 150 RN or 170 FP both make mush out of deer's innards. Rem Core-lokts work well also. Others may equal but few surpass.

I don't bother reloading for my .30-30 anymore. Not when 170 gr core-lokt factory loads can be bought for 14.99 a box at Gander Mountain and group under 1.5" for 3 shots at 100 yds..

Time it right, and you can get them for 1/2 that price.

I'd sure like to see a bullet bounce off a rib,especially a 30-06 180 gr.

I've never seen it either and I've busted a helluva lot of deer ribs with .30-30 bullets.

Cheapest I saw them on sale for last season was 11.99 a box. I might give those core-lokt HP's a try this year if I can find any. I know I've seen them either at Dick's or GM but can't remember which.

Gander has the HPs.

Here's what we found.

The standard Core-Lokts worked superbly well on big deer, and on raking shots. But on smaller deer, and those broadside shots that slip between ribs, well, sometimes the performance wasn't what we wanted.

The 170 C-L HPs, removed those "problems". They simply deck stuff, regardless of angle or "thickness".

Perhaps when you grow up you'll come to understand that bullets and balls don't always bounce back the same way the came. Mostly, it looks more like an incidence and reflection being more equal.

That's pretty much what happened with the LeverEvolution bullet. The bullet hit the deer at an angle that should have run in down in and through the chest and out just in front of the opposite shoulder, but instead it bounced off the rib and went up and out the top through the chops just back of the opposite shoulder.

Sounds good to me. I'll definitely look for them and pick up a couple boxes to try. I really like the performance of the old 170 Win. Silvertips but they've gotten a little too pricey lately to make it worth the extra cost.

The Winchester 150 grain PowerPoint HPs are likewise impressive but scarce as hen's teeth.

If you haven't see a bullet deflect off bone in a deer you haven't looked at many wound channels in very many deer.

I've seen a few incidences of bullet deflection but never happened to me personally with a .30-30. I read alot about surface "blow ups" on here but have always suspected that most of those were more likely incidences of deflection {ricochet} than actual blow ups.

The purest form of a surface blow up I have ever seen was early in the life of the .243 my uncle let my dad shoot a deer with some fast hand loads. It was a nice buck and it was hit square on in the neck and should have passed through the neck bone. The deer dropped like a stone. When it got up and ran off after the neck cutting by another uncle it caused quite a commotion. My cousin and I had to go chase it down and when we got it it was of course quite dead. It had a fist size chunk of meat missing, and the bullet never made it to the spine. Never found any fragments or other path out of the deer, just that big divot of missing meat.

Probably the jacket and core just disintegrated right there. I shoot chipmunks with 35 grain VMaxs at about 3200 and they will only just barely scuff up a board under or behind the "volunteer", and usually the chipmunk is just about vaporized. I have shot quite a few out of the scrap lumber pile with a board underneath them and one within a foot or so behind. If you get the chipmunk, the boards will have minor scuffs at most. I have seen the same results with .243s and 55 grain VMaxs. I have only done a few direct comparisons with the .243 compared to dozens with the .223 though.

My conclusion has been that those bullets just come completely undone. The Nosler BT lead free usually leaves some tiny little sparkles of jacket and you might find a few tiny like #12 shot size copper BBs.

If you want to say deflect then yea, but don't blow smoke up someone's butt that bullets bounce off.
A 1/4" tree limb will deflect a bullet's flight

Grow up you F-ing moron. Go shoot a tracer round through a willow swamp at night and tell me they don't bounce just like a ball. I have seen enough bullets hit rib and not break the rib, and leave at something approaching the angle of incidence that I have no question they can perform a very close approximation of a golf ball bouncing off concrete.

I'd have to agree that small caliber V-max's are very fragile and if any bullet was going to completely blow up and cause a surface wound I'd be bettin' on those. I've shot them from my 17 HMR into 2 liter soda bottles filled with water and had them completely disintegtate inside with absolutely nothing penetrating the back side of the bottle. What gets me is when I hear this or that 100 gr .243, 130 gr .270 or 150 gr .308 bullet "blew up completely" on a rib and never entered the pleural cavity. I simply don't buy that and think it has to be deflection.

I'd avoid the FTX in any caliber. They suck!

The Nosler 170 grain Partition is a fine 30-30 bullet. The plain vanilla cup&core bullets usually work just fine though.

Would you care to elaborate? I'd like to hear about your experiences with them and which calibers.

They are a hollow points with a plastic nose. The just blow up on deer size game.

Yeah, I think so too. There seems to be a bounce window. Maybe a better way to put it is that for a given bullet there seems to be a range of velocity and impact angle that will produce bounce. .22 LR olid nose seems to have a wide window. 30 caliber FMJ is extremely prone to bouncing and little VMaxs are so fragile they don't seem to bounce ever.

I have a couple hundred of these coming my way to give a whirl. Can't imagine they won't work.

http://www.hornady.com/store/MonoFlex-Bullets-New

They are fragile and expensive. The Core-Lokts work better.

Tell me how an all copper bullet is fragile?

They ain't that expensive either

That plastic nose makes them open to fast.

The bullet, not you dipshitt

Have you actually shot something with them?

Crickey, those things ain't cheap, are they?

I'm interested to see how those work for you, Scott. I'd think they would penetrate like no tomorrow.

Midway had/has them on sale (blemished) for $16 per 50.

I was always a fan of 170 gr. Silvertips...long since unavailable to the handloader...

Damn! I just loaded up a bunch of 150 TSXs that shoot into an inch easily at 2400 FPS and I am drooling over those! Let's all hope Barnes ups the ante with a 130 grain TSX/TTSX. I had enough head room in the load for my 30-30 with the TSXs that I probably could have got close to 2700 from the steps in to work up. A 130 in an accurate 30-30 at ~2900 would be a really impressive option lever guns.

Get you some LeverEvolution powder and tell us what you got out of those gems please. I am betting you can get 2800 with room to spare.

If Your a non-handloader, Federal Premium 170 gn. Nosler Partitions.

If You roll Your own, a 170 NP, RL-15, and a CCI-250 primer, runs right at 2400 fps in my 26" barreled 94 Winchester, has been very, very, effective on WT deer and hogs to 340 lbs. for me, does alot better than paper ballistics would have You believe.

Gunner

I tried LeverEvolution with 130 TSX's in a 24" barreled Model 64 Winchester. 38.5 grains(Hodgdon's max for 150's) gave 2660 fps with ES=10fps for three shots. I then tried 39.5 grains and things got a little erratic. Velocity jumped to 2790 fps and ES=63fps for three rounds. The lever was a little sticky opening on the fastest round of the three.

The rifle really needs to be recrowned so groups open quickly as velocities increase. I am going to recrown the rifle and try 39 grains one of these days.

That doesn't make sense. I got 2400 across my chrony out of my 336 at 35.5 with 150s

It makes plenty of sense.

Three shots is a VERY limited sample, and one case with a thicker neck can result in higher pressure/velocity. And .0001" (one 10/1000ths) in either bullet or bore diameter results in about 1000 psi difference in pressure.

Plus there's the difference in manufacturing lots of powder, plus umpteen other things, including temperature, primer, etc. etc. etc.

Has anyone played with the Nosler...

Nope, but I do intend to try these. 150gr Hollow point bonded.

Here's some 130 grainers that should do the trick as well.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=576959

My 30-30 is a Scary accurate Stevens 325B. I have used it for caribou with 125 Sierra Spitzers at 2600 and it works very well. For bigger stuff I use 150 Nosler Partitions at 2300fps.

The 170 Horn FN has been a very good traditional bullet.

I saw that.

I've read a few posts and talked to a couple of buddies who really are high on that particular factory load.

hmmm.....

30/30 is the only one I'll buy factory ammo for, though I do handload for it also.

That how I do it, but I use the 150's. A 130 lb buck isn't too hard to kill. If I were hunting heavier bodied deer I would move up to a 170 for a little more penetration.

Everybody knows that rib bones are kryptonite to 30/06's and the 30 caliber bretheren.

Get a 338 Fed

I agree it could make sense, we've all seen things like this happen. On the face of it though it makes no sense and should produce one of those step back and scratch your head moments.

Just dropping from 150 to a 130 one would expect a little more velocity and a little less pressure at least until the laws of physics change. Accompanying that drop in bullet weight you you usually need to bump the charge a little to keep the pressure. Things that it might be he did not get if his test is repeatable.

Yes some guns max out at below book max. Yes temp can add some to the pot. Yes dimension tolerances can add some more.

But... what he got is not at all what I would expect. Especially given how the tests that I did with the 150s produced a very mild load.

It makes me wonder if this might be a side of LeverEvolution powder that goes with the little to no benefits accruing to many calibers with it. It makes me wonder enough to try to replicate it to see whether there is a characteristic of LeverEvolution powder that we might ought to be mindful of.

More velocity with a lighter bullet doesn't mean less pressure. Top end velocity requires top end pressure. "Until the laws of physics change"

Yep. Been loading them for almost 25 years. Thought the old factory Silver Tip loads worked pretty well 40 years ago, until I started killing deer with the Hornady 170gr FPs.

Pure fluke, since the only bullets the shop had for that application, back when I began loading for the 32 Special, were the Hornadys. A coupla dead deer and I never bothered to look for anything else.

Miles58,
The Model 64 has a very tight bore. It is a "fast" rifle with any book load I have tried. I started with 760 with the 130 TSX. The action gets a little sticky at about 2500 fps so LVR provides a good boost in velocity.

I should have mentioned that I also tried the 38.5 LVR/130TSX in a 1949 vintage 24" barreled 336A. I only got about 2540 fps in that rifle. The problem is that you run out of case capacity in the 30-30. You can't get much more than 39.5 grains in the case with the 130TSX.

Actually I don't know what part doesn't make sense to you. Maybe the Marlin speeds make even less sense? If you want velocity in a 30-30 use the 125 BT-short bearing surface and apparently engraves easily. I got about 2730 with it in the Model 64 without any pressure problems.

What may be not be doing quite what I expect may well be my rifle.

I looked at the bottle and saw 35.5 grains for 150s as the load on the bottle and started by assuming that was a max load just to be safe. I did a normal work up and saw nice smooth incremental velocity increases. When I hit 35.5 I started getting groups close to 1/2 inch and 2400 FPS. I quit there even though the load was quite mild in terms of recoil and muzzle blast. When I go home I checked and found max was really 38.5 which with the linear velocity increases I saw should have given me about 2700 easily.

Dropping that bullet down to 130 in my rifle I would expect to see it pick up some speed. Dropping to 130 I would also expect it to be able to handle a little more powder to come back up to pressure. What you got wasn't diametrically different, but it's headed in that direction. With a new powder I am not familiar with behavior that's not more in line with what I expect makes me take notice. With one that seems very particular about the cartridges and bullets it is being recommended for by the manufacturer I am wondering if there is some insight into LeverEvolution from this info.

Swampy must have stocked back up on his clorox toothpaste. Cause he never quits kissing remington's azz. He likes to keep his schitt eatin grin in check. So pay no mind to the little swamp man behind the curtain. He just blowing sunshine up your butt.

We have had good luck with the 150 Speer hotcor from 50-250 yards. It both opens and penetrates well. It may feed better than plastic tips in your rifle and yet still has a decent BC.

Miles, The LVR powder may be linear in its best working range but it isn't when you get out of that range. I am sure it varies somewhat from rifle to rifle as to where it works best. It is interesting that Hodgdon doesn't show loads for lighter bullets in their data. The 25-35 has 75 grain data but that is a small case. I haven't played with it enough to understand it.

Also I think the TSX is a harder bullet and is not going to correspond well with a regular bullet of the same weight. The TSX is longer too, so you have to seat it deeper and that takes up powder space.

Another thing is that lighter bullets don't always go a lot faster than heavier bullets using the same powder charge. To use up odd bullets and keep it simple, I often load lighter and heavier bullets with the same powder charge for our club high power silhouette match. I don't expect to see much difference in velocity.

Anyway to many variables to always predict accurately. I guess that's what keeps it interesting!

Pressure isn't just a function of its peak either. One way to view it is the Volume under the curve. A rapid rise to a sustained pressure could give more velocity than a spike to a higher pressure that was not sustained for the time the bullet was in the barrel.

I did see a friend hit a bear in the skull once with a 130 grain 270, and the bullet glanced off the skull. A second shot to the heart lung did the job right. But, I have never seen a rib do the same thing, even an elk rib.

Your results may vary.

I slew a fair number of deer, a bear, and some pigs with that bullet. You could not convince me it wasn't magic.

I was almost as bad as our resident core-lokt lover......Almost, I say......