For no particular reason this question popped into my mind the other day. Given its track record and production numbers during the war, why wasn't the Garand more popular as a sporting arm post WWII?

I figure most of the gunwriters here (and members in general) are babyboomers and might have greater insight and memory into this query.

With the post war popularity and availability of Mausers and Springfields it's no surprise they became so prevalent in the hunting world. Shouldn't the Garand have followed this course to some extent?

I can think of a few possibilities why perhaps it didn't gain a foothold. Were they readily available after the war and at reasonable cost? Did most hunters already own a good bolt or lever 'hunting' rifle they returned to after the war? During that era was the bolt or lever action still seen as the hunting rifle compared to the semi-auto 'war' rifle. Was the difficulty of scope mounting a problem (although in the dense East thickets, I would think the peepsights would have worked fine)? Was the 8 round clip 'off putting' to hunters?

I grew up in N. Wisconsin in thick woods. The Marlin 336, Win 94, and Rem 7600 were the most ubiquitous--most often in .30-30, .35 Rem, or .30-06. Not only did I not know or hear of anyone who ever hunted with a Garand, I never knew anyone who even owned one (and I would have known being a rilfe loony and a WWII loony).

So for those of you whose fathers and their friends would have served in WWII or hunted during the immediate years after, what are your thoughts on the Garand's seeming lack of sporting use? Just curious. It was such a iconic weapon during the war, it seems that popularity would have bled over into the sporting realm.

Too heavy unless your hunting from a stand. They were a bitch to carry but a joy to shoot.

Some states limit capacity to five rounds for big game hunting. Brownells sells a special 5-shot clip for the M-1.

I have one, son has one, good buddy has one. Yes, they all have been hunted. Here it's only legal if you have the 5 round clip, which is available most places.
We've use ours for our doe tags. They seem to get a little closer for peep sights.
One thing to remember, don't try an shoot hot loads of 30-06 through them, they were made for something a little less stout.
M1 hunting ammo is available.
I was in one of the last training battalion to be issued M1's back in 64 after going through basic using the M14.
Great gun, here's my CMP select grade H&R, rebuilt by the Gov. but never reissued.
Below it is my son's Springfield, came from CMP with all Springfield parts that were all period correct. His was mid 50's, mine is late 50's.
Those old girls still can shoot.

I have used one many times in black timber. Back in the day they were fairly common. A lot of WW2 and Korean war vets liked them.

I have used one.Now it's tad heavy to lug around.Never load them witha slow powder like 4831, 4350. Keep to the 4895 realm.

Good replies guys. I never even thought about the round count restrictions.

As far as weight, I know ultra lights are all the rage now but back in the day a lot of the military sporters and even the fabled pre-64 70s weren't a whole lot lighter than a Garand. I also figured those WWII vets were pretty used to the weight by then!

Beautiful rifles, jbmi!

I worked up hunting loads for my Garand using 150 grain Hornady's this past summer. I was thinking I would carry it while poking around for wild hogs on my Mississippi place. But there isn't enough hog sign lately to get me excited about that. I'm sure they will be back, and when they are ....

Up until about 1980 it was almost impossible to get one. Unlike the CMP the DCM only allowed one per person for life. There was a few made from DeMilled (cut in half) receivers found at gun shows but, the real McCoy was few and far between. I remember in the mid '70's when the Sheriffs Dept. was granted to purchase some for $165 IIRC.

I always take my Garand out with me each fall...especially on the Veteran's Day holiday. I do it as a means of honoring my dad (and others of course)who fought in the Battle of the Bulge in WWII. He was in the infantry and saw the worst of it. He passed away in 2006 from Alzheimer's. The Garand was a safe queen when I found it, 100% correct, and is within 90,000 of the s/n my dad carried. I always thought that was so cool. She shoots 168 SMK's with 47.0 gr of 4064 into nice tight little bitty groups.

He remembered his s/n until Alzheimer's started taking it's toll. Thanks for everything you did for me dad...Love You.

HDH, 75th Inf. Division, RIP

Great story, godogs! Thanks.

I don't think so. Real men carried them across europe. A little hunting trip wouldn't have slowed them down one bit

The things that make you go 'hummmmmm'?

I've hunted with mine before, but I haven't connected with it yet. Lately, I have been after a boor hog that's destroying a riparian area. The reason the M1 went afield is that this creature is pretty big and asside from ample firepower, any follow up shots, for any reason, will just be a semi automatic process (pull the trigger until the clip goes ping). Plus, I am comfortable shooting it. I really do not mind the weight, it's good excerize, with the reminder that if the men on Normandy beach could carry M1's under fire, then I shouldn't be a wuss about taking it out for a mountain stroll.

Amen LNF150...preach it.

Mojo thanks so much for the comment...much appreciated.

GOOD ON YA ! I feel your R E S P E C T ! !

T H A N K S to all of our service people.

Jerry

The more often you shoot them, the lighter they feel...

TC

By the time my dad got past Sicily and Anzio, he might have weighed 120lbs. He took a carbine from Sicily to Anzio, but carried a Springfield or a Garand all the way to Germany. He didn't complain about them being heavy; the BAR was heavy.

I just don't understand why a young civilian man would complain about an M1 being heavy. A guy under 40 really ought to be able to run ridges all day with one.

The early post about them not being that common is the fact. By the time they were surplused out better rifles to mount optics to were common and cheaper to get your hands on

Despite the fact I own a Kimber 84M in 7-08, I took my No.1H in .375 BERNIE this year for elk and deer. It weighs 9.75lbs and I couldn't sling it over my shoulder due to my pack so I had to carry it most of the time (this in the mountains of Idaho). Everytime I felt like bitchin in my mind, my exact thoughts were of the guys who humped their Garands (and kits) all through Europe and the Pacific. Suuddenly, the ole H&H wasn't so bad after all (didn't have to worry about getting ambushed either)!

I carry one of at least once during deer season. Here is the only time its connected. A field grade Winchester from the CMP

There was a guy in Alaska known as "the bear-hunting judge." Can't remember his name right now, but have a book about him. He started with a semi-auto .35 Remington and killed several brown bears with it (not usually with one shot) but eventually went to the Garand, and killed several more BIG bears. Will find the book and post more.

There is a guy in Montana that uses one somewhat regularly, and has killed everything from gophers to elk. It also amuses me to hear people talk about how heavy they are. One of those guys that knew it all and never carried one, picked his own scoped rifle when he was blindfolded, claiming it to be the heavier gun. It sure never stopped this guy...

I love shooting mine and used it on one doe two years ago. It shoots very well. Might have something to do with being too heavy for me to move off target when shooting it!

Have to rotate hunting with different guns so I have not carried it since.

Richard

Besides, it's nice to have a bayonet when the in close work begins. They are dangerous when wounded.

1B

For those that may not know, you can still get one from the CMP if you meet a few simple requirements. They have several grades to from which to choose. Go to ODCMP.com. Lots of fun to shoot and if you let a newbie shoot one watch his face when the clip goes "ping"...he'll think something broke.

I carried my 1955 Springfield armory last year no deer or hog. Took it this year and connected with deer at 15 yds with my handload.48 grains H4895 CCI 34 primers 150 grain Speer soft point and Wnchester brass. Do use the 5 round clip.

Would like to post a picture but not sure how to any help?

358win

Went hunting in Kansas back in the early 90's and a local brought in his gun the first morning of hunting.I looked at my partner and said WTF and he winked.Later that day the old boy knocked down a monstrous doe running at 150yds.Right through the shoulder a tad high but dead as hell.That old M1 was deadly in that guys hands. Surprised the crap out of me as I was standing beside him thinking...ain't no way he's going to kill that deer.I learned alot that day about marksmanship.That old M1 was all he had and all he knew.powdr

I've got a couple from CMP. Very good on hogs. Don't get me started on what they'll do to ground squirrels on the ranch, but it's damn good practice, hitting squirrels at 100 yards with open sights.

I had a boy-hood friend whose father was a major in the US Army in WW2 (landed in Normandy on D-Day - second wave) and fought all the way into Germany. He traded his M-1 Carbine for an M-1 Garand for hunting. He shot several deer using ball ammo. He also got a small deer with a 50 BMG - not much left.

Back in the 60's there were a number of magazine articles, especially in the old "Guns", on customizing and rebarreling Garands. The .270 and .25-06 were particularly popular. The "old" Fajens and Bishops both offered sporter stocks, even with rollover cheek pieces. Some really changed the looks and were rather handsome for the time period.

When my wife went hunting elk for the first time over a month ago, before we headed out, I told her we needed to bring a backup gun to ride behind the truck seat, just incase anything mechanical happened to her rem 700, scope, or whatever. My suggestion, which got shot down like a Japanese zero in the Great Marianas Turkey Shoot, was to bring my old trusty rem 760. I forgot how much she distains the recoil of that old gun. But her suggestion was to bring the Garand (which is just as old) because it doesn't kick her very much and for being just a shade taller then a wizard of oz munchkin she enjoys shooting it. So the M1 went quietly with us, never saw the light of day through the whole hunt, yet it was there just incase.

This link is what got me started:

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...96239/How_to_post_your_photos#Post696239

I hope it will help you as well.

Thanks WoodsyAl

When I get time I'll give it shot

358win

Garands weren't available. Over half of the WWII vets in my family groups had 740/742 Remingtons though. I have one around to remind me of a couple of uncles. Those boys could shoot.

FWIW We used the M-14 in boot camp and at the range in 1966.

In early 1967 at ITR it was Garands, BAR's and M-60's. The BAR was a jewel. Amazing weapon. Should have been modified to a .308 and quick change barrel for Nam IMHO.

In Hawaii back to the M-14's and at the last AR-15's [XME2's if memory serves]nice weapons. I briefly held the range record with one and I do mean briefly [one flight].

At Santa Ana and in the desert it was M-14's.

In Vietnam we had the early Jam-O-Matic AR's [we were wingers].
Shoot it once and clean it for a month. Only load sixteen in the magazines, etc. POS.

Of all of those I liked the M-14 so much I never wanted a Garand despite the CMP availability.

48.0 gr.'s of IMR4895 with a 150 gr Sierra SP works great in my M-1 Grand and 2-remington 03A3's. It's also shoots MOA in my Remington ADL and CDL rifles. This is my go to load for the 30/06.

I think we have 4 or 5 of them in the safe... I"ve hunted one a fair amount on pigs, never used it on deer for some reason.

I have done a triple with the M1 on hogs so far. The firepower that day allowed a starting neck shot, a running back of the head coming down from recoil, and a right to left crosser, and then a few minutes later caught the other 2 on a trail and dinged them to have killed all 5 from the group.

Ive taken my Winchester M-1 out a few times and have not yet squeezed the trigger. One day I will on the right deer. First year I brought it to camp though, its a good thing I brought a couple hundred rounds of ball ammo. Everyone wanted to shoot it. Hell even my dad (a Korean War Navy vet) went through a few en-blocs, and he still remembered how to field strip it.

shot 1 blue wolf on the run bout 150 yds out with mine 10yrs. back or so.....use it on my trapline, you get use to the heft. my son has it now.

Have carried mine hunting a few times, passed up a shot on a doe
but never fired it at game.

Funny story, my Dad was drafted into the Army from 60-62,
He enjoyed shooting the Garand, carrying it not so much...
told me he and some of his buddies threatend to buy one when
they became available to the public, stick it in the ground on
the bayonet, and pee on it every time they went by
He still remembered how to field strip mine also, had to show me
how to do it. Haven't asked him in a long time, but he used to
remember the serial number of his. Told me they used to burn up
leftover ammo rather than checking it back in, shoot till the
front handguard was smoking.

I've taken my Garand out deer hunting. Weight wasn't an issue, but sight performance in low light was subpar. The Garand rear sight is a relatively fine peep, that while excellent for shooting good groups is an awful performer in fading light in the forested hollows that I hunt. In my state we can hunt till 1/2 hour after dusk, but it's almost impossible to get a good sight picture with my Garand peep around dusk, while the otherwise inferior open sights on my muzzleloaders are still bright and clear.

It's funny. A friend of mine recently picked up a Garand and just last week we were talking about putting together a Garand only hunt next season. I have a DCM rifle in the safe that I used to shoot matches with years ago. Any recommendations on factory ammo to hunt with? My recollection is that the Federal Garand round is a FMJ bullet. Would any standard velocity 150 grain hunting round be good as long as it feeds?

Is CMP the best place to get them from? My dad has a serious hankering for one and I think it would make a heck of a gift for him. We both shot his buddie's Garand a couple of weeks ago and we are hooked. Flinch

As others have alluded to, garands were generally not availably other than through the old DCM, which was one per lifetime.
My addiction to the garand started at about age 11 while deer hunting with a relative, now deceased. He was a navy vet, and i am sure in hindsight dufflebagged it. It didn't see the light of day in the 50's very often. Garands ammunition is loaded to a certain pressure curve with certain powders and that should be strictly observed. You can buy a replacement gas valve that allows heavier bullets. They are not light, but i don't think that much heavier than some "sporting" rifles in reality. Most people only see much used and abused garands, but they are capable of good accuracy. You can also rebarrel them as they originally were not intended for 30.06, but .277. The 06 was a couple of generals idea, because of the ammunition on hand.
I went to the expense a few years ago of rebuilding a turkish lendlease garand. Douglas .308 barrel, imported wood, everything brought up to spec. It shoots quite well.

Around my house the Garand is still the Yute Rifle of choice. Here's Mooseboy with his Yute Rifle



If you go trolling around on my weblog (see signature) , you'll find gobs of stories about Mooseboy and the Garand. He actually got famous there for a while. A French D-Day forum found that picture I just showed you and the story of Mooseboy and the Garand got International attention. Thanks to Grand Veneur for helping me to translate my thoughts to French.

You may wonder why a Garand for a yute rifle? Simple, between the extra weight and the gas-operated semi action, the recoil of the 30-06 is reduced quite a bit over a bolt gun. Usually the yute is hunting out of a stand with a rest and he's always hunting with Dad. It ends up being a good fit. The one proviso is you have to have yutes of the right size. Mine are. . well, when you nickname your kids Moose and Angus you get the idea. Even the youngest, at 13, is well beyond the average WWII GI.

We use the 5 round enblocs, just to keep the number of rounds down. Kentucky allows up to 10, but when you hit the button to unload it's nice to have only 4 flying out at you. We load Lake City brass with 165 grain Hornady SP Interloks over H4895. It airs the whitetails out but good. Mooseboy took a shot at a small buck a few years ago and completely eviscerated the thing. The pressure wave caused the belly to open up and all the organs poured out. All we had left to clean was the anus, a couple feet of large intestine and a few bits of heart and lung.

Here's a pic of the Garand. It's a Springfield, built in 1942






This year Angus (13) wants to use the Garand. He's already taken a nice buck with his mom's bolt gun, but he says he wants to do it old school. This past season, he just didn't fit the weapon, but he's grown again. My guess is he'll be ready.

buckhorn

To my knowledge there is no factory hunting ammo available for hunting. I hope that some one would. Right now I would handload. Medium burning powders are recommended H4895,IMR 4895 and such velocities should be kept to 2700-2800fps Bullet weight should be kept to 150-165 grain bullets. CCI makes a 34 primer specifically for the M1 garand.

358win

Hornady and maybe others have special reloading pages for the M1 Garand, different from the 30-06 pages.

I think the reasons the Garand is not more popular with hunters are (1) it's very difficult to mount a scope on one (and the scope and side mount adds weight), (2) it's hard to really sporterize one, due to the long operating rod, (3) you have to reduce pressures from top 30-06 handloads, (4) they don't sell factory ammo in the correct pressures, and (5) they aren't as accurate as many modern rifles, due to all the claptrap hanging on the end.

I really like shooting mine. I have a lot of 172 grain match bullets I got decades ago and I load them to the old National Match velocity of 2640 fps using Varget.

Hornady is making a factory garand specific round, but I think it is fmj. I would argue the accuracy question, agree with the scope, but you can get different iron sights, such as national match and a 150 to 160grain bullet at about 2750 will do the job on most things. And I wouldn't talk like a heretic and Ugh, sporterize a garand? Thats enough for me to want to upchuck.

If you are not bothered about historical significance, i.e. you have to have a WWII vintage rifle, c.m.p. is selling for around a 1000 bill a totally rebuilt garand with new criterion barrel etc, new wood, and an original forged reciever, which is a heck of a deal. The after market garands have cast recievers. They are nice rifles. And if you were to take a rack garand that's basically shot out you can get pretty close to that figure in acquiring parts and so on. In my area you see a LOT of garands at the shows, sporting price tags a couple of hundred bucks more than what it costs through the c.m.p.
Understand they are down at the bottom of the barrel as to garands and they unless you pay more money, are not as good a quality as you use to get either through the cmp or the old dcm.
By bottom of the barrel I don't mean they aren't a good value, but some of the dcm guns in their day were pretty good.
They are out there, last year i bought three of them that are called "white bag" garands. They were put into a white bag around 1953 or 1954 after arsonal rebuild, and were untouched. They aren't going to be shot by me.

My Granfather was the armorer at the Air Force base near Fairbanks AK during the Korean war. He told me that once ammo got so many years old (I think it was five) he was told to destroy it. Instead of doing that he would check a bunch of Garands out and a Browning 1919 .30 or two and get some of the boys and head down to the Tanana river. They would burn through the ammo shooting at piles of driftwood floating in the river. He said the Browning .30 cal would set the driftwood on fire. This isn't about hunting I know but this thread reminded me of those stories.

Ronin,

The problem with Garand accuracy is mostly the operating rod, gas cylinder, front handguard, etc. getting out of tune and rattling around. As soon as the M14 (M1A) came out, it drove the M1s off the line at the National Championships at Camp Perry. In turn, the AR15s beat the M1As at 200, 300, 600 yards.

Another problem is barrel variation. Armorers used to star gauge a bunch of barrels and call the best ones National Match barrels. These had very little diameter variation and tended to have a little "choke," wider at the rear than at the front.

National Match sights do little for inherent accuracy. The front blade is narrower (which may not be as good for hunting) and the adjustments are finer.

The CMP has initiated a special John C. Garand match at Camp Perry each August. You're supposed to shoot a stock M1 which hasn't been accurized (accurized ones have NM stamped on their parts). This is one of the most popular matches at Camp Perry.

The Alaskan judge John was referring to was judge Richard Folta and the book is titles Of Benches & Bears: Alaska's Bear Hunting Judge

Due to the long history of our military in Alaska the M-1 Garand has received a lot of use as a hunting weapon

In Pennsylvania it is illegal to hunt with a semi-auto rifle or handgun. Do any other states have similar laws?

Can one shoot 2700-2800 with the stock gas plug?

The above is probably the biggest reason. I bought a M1 in the early 80's from the dcm for $125.00 but there just wasn't very much availability. Most 03's,P17's etc were sold as surplus cheap through the NRA for like $5. Then came production rifles and surplus rifle sales slowed or dried up.

I know guys in semi-auto restricted areas that drill out the gas plug and then had a bolt action rifle.

I love M1's, wonderful rifles and especially on days like June 6th it makes one really appreciate the contribution they made to the freedom of our country.

2700 with the proper powder - burn rate matters!
150 gr bullets.

Mark

I expect that any real man who had carried one across Europe would jump at the chance to carry something else when hunting. There's a world of difference between carrying a bolt action at 7 1/2 pounds and a Garand at 10 pounds, especially once Uncle Sam stops saying that you have to.

Besides, the Garand was too difficult to scope and there weren't that many available in the Fifties and Sixties.

I've got one if the new production Springfield Armory Garrands they made a limited run of about 10 years ago.
I've killed quiet a few feral hogs here at the ranch with it. I use Remington Corlockt 150 grain Factory Ammo in mine. It's very accurate & a blast to shoot.

All my nephews wanted to shoot it after seeing the movie "Saving Private Ryan"
Now they think it's a pretty cool "antique". Especially after telling them my Grandad or their Great Grandad landed on Omaha Beach on D-Day carrying a Garrand

I think Joe had it somewhat right it was mostly a matter of timing. Surplus rifles for hunting were most popular in the 50's and 60's. the grands were not that readily available then and by the time they were declared surplus the Kennedy assassination had put an end to mail order surplus rifles, scopes had become popular and commercial rifles at reasonable prices had taken off plus it was a matter of economics. People were making more disposable income traveling more and hunting was becoming more than hunting the back 40 .

just before i retired from the army i bought my fil (a vet of the pacific during ww2) a garand from cmp. paid 250.00 for an international harvester version that was in excellent shape. my fil always spoke so highly of the garand. just before he died he gave the rifle back to me. i shot one or two whitetail doe with it before putting it away. killed deer just fine, but too heavy for a hunting rifle imo.

I have some friends and family coming down to hunt deer with me this fall. We occasionally declare theme days such as "lever action day", "open sight day", "45/70 day", and "single shot day" when we get together. We might have to have a "Garand day" this year.

Carried one many times walking south texas looking for pigs/javelina. That is NOT driving around or sitting in a stand, but drive out park and get in there with em....

Heavy is a relative term.

Compared to my TC Renegade 54 caplock for elk backpack trips, there isn't much at all difference weight wise....

One thing the GI's always bitched about was the Garand's weight. Granted, GI's tend to bitch about everything, but 10 pounds is still a heavy rifle.

I suppose it's fine for walking around in the scrub shooting at hogs, but it's not a rifle I'd carry to hike up a mountain.

I once bought one of those Chinese Norinco M14 clones with hunting in mind. I took it to the range once and promptly sold it knowing I'd never lug that thing in the woods. Why make work out of something that's supposed to be fun, esp with so many more suitable sporting guns out there.

If you don't mine carrying a 9 lb 30-06 , then go for it

I've shot several does with mine. I love those old rifles.

The Hornady 168 AMAX Garand load is excellent and would be my first choice for Garand hunting.

A friend once said that an M1 with a bayonet attached would be the ideal wild hog rifle.

I hunted my M1A two years back in the early 90's. Never again.