My Dad found this box at a gunshow close to ten years ago. When he got it it had some old packing tape all over the box. On the way out of the show it started to fall off. My Dad took it the rest of the way off, and he nearly had a heart attack when he saw the Griffin&Howe name. Here are some pictures of the box. I hope someone here could maybe fill us in on the history of this box of brass. There are 128 cases in the box we believe it originally contained 130 but we could be wrong. I think it was sent to G&H as a base to make 400 whelen cases.

The only thing we know for shure is that it was shipped from

L.G.S. Corp.
Middlefield,CONN

to

Griffin&Howe, INC. 202
East 44Th St.
New York N.Y.

On December 1st 1943













Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Jonathan

Headstamp(s)?

No Headstamps here is a pic



I went and measured the brass, the head diameter just before the extractor groove is .465. The mouth measures .460 and the case is 2.455 long

Jonathan

Maybe G&H were going to headstamp their name, as well as form?

LGS = Lyman Gun Sight Corp??

Yes L.G.S is the Lyman gun sight corp. Since it was sent to Griffin&Howe in '43 I wonder how they got 30-06 basic during wartime. I would think that all the 30-06 would be going to the war effort. Also I find it interesting that it came from Lyman. Since they never made brass why did they have 30-06 Basic brass.

I have been thinking about calling Griffin&Howe and seeing if they have any record of this package.

Jonathan

Great find ! Hopefully Michael Petrov can wade in here as he usually has some great insights to share.

I have a box of Griffin & Howe .35 Whelen ammo, I don't believe the cases are headstamped. Griffin & Howe had .22-3000 brass ,they were headstamped G&H .22-3000. Any Griffin & Howe ammo or brass is rare these days, your cases are so unique it is hard to put a value on them. Thanks for sharing the pics.

It would not surprise me if the brass had been sitting on a shelf for years before somebody found it, while scrounging for any old brass they could find in those lean times. The odd number suggests it was left over from an older project.

They would sure go nice with my 400 Whelen.

Mart

That's a nice find Jonathan. I think there might be merit in your speculation these cases were destined for 400Whelen.

The problems with 400Whelen headspace came about when people merely necked up an '06 case.......leaving a .441 shoulder. The original 400Whelen was designed with a .458 shoulder.....which would be satisfied with the cylindrical brass you have.

Petrov's fine article explains his proof of such.

http://www.z-hat.com/smashing_the_headspace_myth.htm

Edit: Better copy and pictures....2-part article.
http://www.finegunmaking.com/page33/page51/page51.html

I made some of my 400 Whelen brass from Qual Cart 400 Whelen head stamped brass, which is cylindrical 30-06, just with the correct head stamp for the 400. I also used some the Norma 30-06 basic that I found on Gunbroker. I imagine yours was destined to be 400 Whelen.

I would definitely call G&H and maybe even Lyman. They might have some record of it. If I had to speculate as to the origin of the brass I would guess that it was procured pre-war from one of the manufactures for the purpose of making cases for a wildcat, likely the 400 Whelen, maybe the 35 Whelen. Why it was shipped from Lyman is anyone's guess. It's too bad there is no letter with the brass. That would perhaps unlock the mystery and would be some interesting history.

Great find. I am envious. Perhaps you should build a 400 Whelen now. I can think of no better use for the brass.

Mart

Wow, 11 cents for postage!

That's not cheap.



http://www.tvhistory.tv/1943%20QF.htm

G&H use cylindrical or basic 06-brass to make .25, .35 and .400-Whelen ammo. They loaded the ammo at G&H put them in twenty-rounds boxes and attached their label.

None of the above where head-stamped.

Nice find, if they were mine I would anneal them and load up some more .400-Whelen ammo ;-). My experience with this older brass is they tend to get hard so if you use them I would advise you anneal them first.

I looks like the loading information was printed on the labels with a typewriter.

Thank you to everyone, it is cool to know that G&H didn't headstamp their ammo. The no headstamp thing make sense now. Thank you Mr Petrov for the picture of the G&H ammo. It is cool to see what this brass might have become. I don't think we will be using this brass as my dad is a collector of unusual cartridges and cases, but then again you never know a .400 Whelen would be quite the conversation piece. Once again thanks to everyone here for all the information that has been given.

Jonathan

You're Welcome!

Would you be so kind as to measure the wall thickness of this brass?

I will do that tomorrow. Have to get up early tomorrow so I have to sign off for now.

Jonathan

Late 1943, American Industry was going full blast. While most every thing was going to the war effort, still people at home hunted in season, traveled and did the usual things. My mom was working for the Department of Defense at the time, POW camp administration. Most of the ones were she was were Rommel's Afrika Corp. Along with Italians. Wisconsin of all places. Griffin and Howe would get stuff no doubt. But like with shortages today on ammo and loading supplies, they most certainly paid a premium price for it. But Griffin and Howe's wears were not cheap in 1943 by any stretch you wish to measure it.

Ok I just got back to the house and measured the thickness.

The case mouth measures .008 thou thick, one inch from case mouth .014 thou, right before the case wall and head junction is .018. The first two measurements seem reasonable to me. However I think the last one seems thin in comparison to all the cases I have measured before.

Jonathan

Jonathan,

Thanks for the information, I appreciate you taking the time to do this.

Michael