So,what does the .308 Winchester that a 8x57 Mauser won't do?
Let's throw in all the aspects of shooting..
hunting.. target...self-defense...sniping?

IIRC there was a bit of sniping done with the 8x57 Mauser during WWII.

Slightly off topic but I was reading about 308's in a mauser magazine and it got me to thinking, Has there ever been an 8x57 simply necked to 308 dia. so there would be no feeding issues?-Muddy

I have a Mauser K98k that the Israelis converted to 7.62 Nato. They put a spacer in the magazine box to accomodate the shorter cartridge. Although it does function reliably, the feeding is not as smooth as with the original cartridge.

The things that a .308 will do that an 8x57 will not pretty much boil down to the use of .308 diameter bullets. Other than that, they are functionally equal, with the 8x57 having an edge in power if loaded to its potential.

There are far more bullets in .30 caliber, especially target-grade bullet, and even in hunting bullets the 8mm selection is a little thin. Barnes, for instance, only makes the Tipped TSX in a 160-grain, though they also have a 200-grain hollow-point TSX. But the 8mm selection is adequate for just about any kind of big game hunting, whether local whitetails or big stuff. There's probably an edge to the 8x57 on larger game due to several premium bullets in the 200-grain class, including the TSX, Nosler Partition and Norma Oryx.

There a lot of relatively low-cost .308 brass available, including military. 8x57 brass is relatively scarce, but rarely unobtainable.

The .308 may be more inherently accurate (if such a thing exists), but the 8x57 is certainly very accurate.

.308 rifles are generally built to tighter tollerances, hence are more accurate, you have a better choice of bullets including some exceptionally accurate high bc bullets, and ammo is more available.

I can't think of a role one round could be used in that the other wouldn't work in, but I'd venture to say for practical reasons the .308 will do it better than the 8X57.

Pretty much any kind of reloading die applicable to bottleneck cartridges is going to come out for the 308 right away. Also, for any given type of die, the 308 is likely to be on the lowest cost tier.

A friend of mine and I are still kicking ourselves for not getting in on the action when a distributor was clearing out 8x57 700 Classics at a very low price.

We could have put together a couple of nice deer/pig rigs for guests to use at our deer camp.

Better bu8llets and manufacturing tolerances make the .308 a better choice today. But if they were of equal quality, there would be virtually no difference.

I've killed a few deer with mine over the years and won't knock either as both are more than adequate within their own envelope of performance but the 8X57 IMO is more in the '06 class with heavier bullets than the 308 any day.

good points all... in regards to target,yes the .308 has an edge in selection of bullets,however this thought always occurs to me,once I found the "holy grail" load of accuracy for the rifle..what do you do next? just shoot it or sell it ? I always end up with a bunch of bullets that didn't work out.

I thinking of building a heavy barrel "euro-tech" 8x57mm
with the 800+ 154grain BT-FMJ from the MG42 for 300+ yard steel plate shooting.
Hornady now make a slim line 195 plastic tips. what am I missing

A lot of those get sold in the classified section.

That's a choice among rifles not between cartridges.

The 8mm doesn't fit in a light little Kimber 84m or Remington 600, but you'll never find the .308 in a classic beauty like this:

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth.../1/Commercial_Mauser_Info_Wanted_#UNREAD

The rounds are too close to quibble about.

Honestly in the .308 I haven't found bullets that don't work in it. Yes the 110 gr varmint bullets can be a bit finicky, but 125 on up, it's harder to find bullets that won't shoot than bullets that do shoot, so long as you use a good powder.

Could you build a "tactical" 8X57? Sure, but you're not going to find true match grade 8mm barrels, target grade seating die and I doubt those 154 gr bt-fmj's will shoot anywhere near as well as a good 150-165 gr .308 bullet. And no need to build a special .308 as there are several off the rack variants that will give guilt edged accuracy.

FlyboyFlem,

Yep. The 8x57 has slightly less powder room than the .30-06, but that's partially offset by the larger bore size. The .30-06 can get slightly more velocity out of the same bullet weights, but not much.

Here is a tang Ruger 77 in 8x57. I keep threatening to build a lighter weight one on a 700 with an Edge stock. Not much I'd not hunt with one. Of course the same goes with the 308.

I have one of each and quite frankly I consider them as equivalents just as the 7x57 vs 7mm08 are virtually the same. I think its a shame the 8x57 has never really caught on better than it has, but to be practical there are obviously plenty of good alternatives. I certainly can't think of a instance where I would use one on game and not the other.

The 8x57 is quite popular as a hunting cartridge in European countries and there are a wide selection of factory rifles available.

In the USA one would be very hard pressed to locate a factory made rifle in 8x57 and i do not believe there is a factory rifle that is mass produced. There would be very few custom or semi custom rifle makers that even have a chambering reamer.

For any USA Factory made Rifle model to be popular is must be offered in 30 Cal.

The various 8X57s get the job done. I use them often in 8X57JR, 8X57 JRS, and 8X57S...in the order below. Even the relatively lower power 8X57 JR kills well.

I do believe a 308 is more versatile with a better bullet selection and nice light short-action rifles.

Great Photo!

Had a Ruger tang 308 for years back when I owned just two rifles. Shot great and I killed a load of deer with it using the 165 gr Hornady. I turned it into a 250 AI for one of my then young son's. I own two 8x57's, both Mauser open sighted pieces. One went along to Africa a few years ago using the 180 gr BT. Worked fine out of the little carbine. The one on the right.

My take is the 8x57 is the better hunting cartridge (bore size, greater capacity, handles heavier bullets) but the 308 is the better target/defense/utility cartridge due to bullet selection, and available rifles (hey I would love to have an STG-58 in 8x57 but...!).

I've found that the 8x57 is VERY slightly more effective on game due to the larger bore size and a tiny bit more velosity.....but the difference is really small. The main advantage of the .308 is the rifles it can be chambered in......for instance the Savage 99.

How did you 'measure' that tiny bit of effectiveness?

When you get down to it there is not a wit difference between time, in hand loaded ammo and may be a hair or two with the factory loaded stuff. Given the choice I would take the 308 just because its more available in rifles here in the States. I had and shot an sporterized 8 x 57 for some years. I could live with one if I had to but I don't, I could even get an 8 x 57 barrel for my blaser if I was so inclined. No I don't think I would have a smith put a 8 x 57 together for me, but I don't see why it would not be something to do for general purpose big game hunting for those so inclined.

hope. feelings. "gut instinct." knockdown power.

Unicorn milk?

The 8x57 is a more 'exclusive' club.

There is not much difference across fairly broad ranges of calibers, I would say from around 26 to 35 given velocities within about 250 fps of each other game won't know what killed it and the hunter won't see a difference either.

Oh, the 8x57 is leaps and bounds ahead of the 308! Remember, the area of the bullet increases with the square of the radius. Same goes for knockdown power. And there's something special about 8mm bullets too, but nobody can explain it. There's even more magic in 8mm bullets than 7mm bullets, or even 6.5mm bullets! My 8x57 Konigschlossengrossen shoots flat to 652 yards and is only down 2 inches at 847 yards. Back in '79, I shot a left-wing extremist in the gall bladder in Lower Backstabistan from 1487 yards. He was DRT.

Really!

There was an intense 8x57 vs .30-06 debate going on, June 6, 1944.

Seventy years ago today.

Seems both were effective.

...another "metric-hater"...

In a short action the only choice here is a 308. In a long action, there seems about no reason on earth not to choose the 30-06 instead of the 8x57.

But if you happen to luck into one of those cool "intermediate" actions, the 8x57 is the perfect big game cartridge for big pigs and big deer. Loaded to potential ie equal pressures its going to outstrip the 308 in equal bullet weights easily.

A 195g Hornady Interlock at a lazy 2600fps will have most big game snoozing quickly.

The 308 has an advantage when using factory loads but when using reloads the 8mm Mauser JS will do anything the 308 will for hunting Purposes.
The 8mm is not a short action cartridge but Nice relativly lightweight bolt rifles can be found.
I have 2 ,both with double set triggers Model 98's,one a cigarette or Guild rifle and the other a club rifle(target sights modified)
History and fine craftsmanship in both rifles.

The advantages to me are being able to use the Mauser rifles(98's which I like so much)with its 8mm JS cartridge that will do anything I need it to do(whitetails)
I use a 47 Grain load of H4895 with a 150 grain Sierra,low recoil and kills fine .About a 2750 FPS load.

Brass is not that hard to find ,nor bullets nor an appropiate powder.
I bought some PRVI with 196 Grain softpoints that I used for deer hunting(kills okay on short range shots(less than a hundred yards)but not as well as the above mentioned handload.I then used the brass for my reloads.Cheaper buying the ammo for the brass than buying just the brass !I have 3 reloads on 40 rounds with no problems.

No flies on the 308 But I just like the old 8mm Mauser !

Like I said I have both and like both but belong in the ain't much difference camp. For those that get their backs up about the superiority of the 8x57 I am sort of curious is it the hairs width of bullet diameter, the massive weight difference of a piece of lead the size of a BB or the slight velocity difference that probably isn't much more than you will see in variation from one barrel to another in either caliber, that gives it the edge you feel it has.

When I say I don't see any difference it isn't a dishing of the 8x57 as I think the 308 is a da-n fine cartridge nor vice versa .i just don't see any edge that should provide consistent terminal difference in the field that couldn't be just a slight variable in shot placement or the individual tenacity of one deer elk, whatever over another. Certainly not enough to get bothered about.

So what wuold you have if you chambered a barrel for 7.62 x 57?. No other changes except to neck it down to 30 cal. A slightly shorter 30 06?

I knew a guy who built a custom Mauser and necked the 8MM down
to 30 and called it the 30 Roberts if I remember correctly. There is a 8MM magnum for sale in my area, another sleeper.

Just do a search on 8x57 necked down and you will find info on the cartridge you asked about.

The 308 Win will steal the show at long range. Bullets with BC's in the 6's.

In the 308 Win, I've driven the 208 AMax, 210 Berger, and 215 Berger to 2600+ fps.

The 8mm has nothing in that league.

Do your research a little better.


http://www.rifleshootermag.com/2010/09/23/featured_rifles_classic_062804/

are you being sarcastic? Or is there a selection of 6+ BC 8mm boolets out there that I'm missing

The only reason to choose the 8mm over the .308 (or '06) is if you stumble over one of the really nice rifles chambered for it.

Or because you really want one.

Sierra has the 8mm 200gr Matchking, with a BC in the low .5's. Their 8mm 220 SBT is also in the low .5's.

In comparison, there is the .308" 215 Berger at BC .696. The 208 AMax at .648, the 210 Berger at .630.

I put some 215s through one of my 308s at 2600 fps, via moly, RL17, and a 26" bbl. It's a serious LR load in the 308.

If there is an 8mm LR bullet in that league, I'm not aware of it.

me neither ... and I didn't see how the cited article had anything to do with LR shooting

It was in reply to hunting effectiveness, actually.

What needs to be done to the 308 rifle to accommodate the long bullets? Seating them deep in the stubby 308 case doesn't seem practical. Just curious.

Some folks have gone as far as building a 308 on a long action. My long 700s are both 30-06.

But I have put Wyatt's magazine boxes in my short 700s, giving them an internal length of 2.99". That helps, and with the 208/210gr I've loaded them to mag length, with 49gr RL17, and made 2620 fps in a 22" bbl.

The 215gr Berger I tested was loaded to 3.10" OAL and single loaded them. Truthfully, I don't mind single-loading for long range, time is not usually a big deal, and with a few rounds on the stock pack, reloads are pretty fast.




I've also dabbled with the 225gr Hornady BTHP in the 308, loaded long. Another great LR bullet with mass, and a BC in the upper .6's. This was another single-load proposition for me.




I share this info not to be argumentative, but mainly because the OP asked for comparisons in all areas. I felt for long range, this input seems relevant.

I guess bullets matter more than case stamps.


The 8x57 lost out due to WWII. The .30 caliber has been going strong due to military advances and the bullet companies seeing fit to offer a more broad array of long range bullets.

The .323 caliber suffers the same long range disappointments as the .25 caliber. How hard can it be to offer a A-Max in these calibers?


For pure hunting I like the 8x57, it might loose a hundred or so fps at 800 yards but no deer would know it. Neither would any game animal know that it was hit with a larger diameter bullet.

I don't really care, don't have anywhere to shoot past 500 yards and the likely hood of shooting at a deer past 400 yards is less than 5%.


I've got a 20" heavy carbine in 8x57, going to run the 170 SST and the 180 Ballistic Tip as soon as I get it ready.

I'm pretty sure the 8x57 won't win a modern Palma competition.
--Bob

That`s a nice looking rifle...who`s barrel?
I have a classic in 8x57, with a barrel that feels worst than a cordoroy road, tho most of the high spots have now been polished off.
A re-barrel job may go this winter.
Thanks

I'm gonna say that's old man Douglas' barrel.

Hence GR Douglas

Cool rifle chrome.

chrome: I love that carbine man. Nice rifle.

That is a cool looking rig. I always like to see modern rendition of the old timers.

My heavy 30-06 is kind of along that vein.

Thanks for pointing that out, I missed it.
I got a few of them.

I've had at least one 8x57 around my entire life, 'cause my pappy sent one home (minty VZ24) after VE Day. Still have that one and a few more, all M98 variants.

Never noticed any difference between thumping a half dozen or so whitetails apiece, with a 150gr 30-06 load, or a 150gr 8x57 load? If there was any difference, the deer missed it as well.

As Finn would say - "Make Mine Mauser"

And Bridger would say Hawken...

8x57 has the cool factor, and lots of history behind it. Other than that, toss a coin for any of the above applications.

8mm Mauser has 10% more case capacity and 5% greater bore size than the 308 Win. That's not nothing.

According to so Goddumn many on here the 280AI schitz from such a great height on the 270 Win with neither of those two differentials being as great.

So what gives?

Quit introducing sense and reasoning into an cartridge argument, will ya...?

So is he 8x57 destined to become the next darling of the campfire looneys? The 6.5 and 7x57 are so yesterday and that horse has been beat to death anyway.

Back in the day we all had at least one 8x57, and usually many more. There's nothing the round doesn't do well. Back then we used them for everything and 400 yds was a long shot with irons. There was not a lot of factory ammo available, and what there was was hard to find at first, but recoil with the pristine German surplus ammo was less than 30-06 or 308, it seemed.

The major importer was down the road, and we could buy excellent and better condition German mausers for $20... I should have bought as many of the Carbines, and as many of the scoped sniper versions the delivery truck would hold. Just mail order your guns back then, but the paper route didn't pay much, and how many Mausers did one actually need?

I could retire now if I could bring myself to sell one of them.

If I had a chance to buy some cool classic rifle that I really liked in 8x57, I would buy it.

If I were going to have a custom rifle built in this power range it would be a short action .308 as easy of a decision as choosing 7mm/08 over a 7x57.

Stray, you need a Mauser in 8x57 even if it's only a clapped out milsurp. Or a 7x57 with a set trigger. Just to round things out a little.

Hard to say, I had mine built 10 years ago.

ive got a BRNo in 8x57. Painted Rock Chuckers basement 6 or 7 years ago that's how I got mine.

Thanks! It looks like a lot of fun, actually.

.308 is boring and dont own one. That's why I own two 8x57's. A Remington and Winchester.

Just added them up, and it turns out I have three .308's and three 8x57's. But the .308's were all made within the past 10 years, and the most recent 8x57 is a German custom "guild gun" on a 98 Mauser action made before WWII--and maybe before WWI--with double-set triggers, butter-knife bolt handle, and side-paneled, schnabel-tipped stock. The oldest is a Gewehr 1888, complete with bayonet.

Those can come in handy sometimes. You never know when you're going to run into a hard-charging deer. Hand to horn combat, you know!

Wow, just caught up. Another, "and away we have gone". Anyone ever play with a proper redhead's stuff...

Yes

Define 'proper'�..

Then, not surprisingly, you understand.

You are older than I imagined.

I love the 8x57 because ammo is cheap and widely available. I have not lived any place in the USA or Europe that did not have 8x57, 7x57, 308 Win, 243 Win etc.....widely available when it is time to go and hunt! In the USA you could add 30-30 and 12 Slug and Buck Shot to that list usually in the old ever faithful Green and Yellow Remington Core-Lokt box!


I treat the 8x57 as if it is diet 338WM if loaded with 196-200gr bullets. So scale back the effective range for all game you would hunt with the 338WM. It has a larger diamter and the frontal surface is also larger than what you would normally see in mainstream America. Now if you are talking about 150gr factory ammo in America than yes it is a bit anemic but to be honest the 30-06 and 300WM are a waste of potential when people put a 150gr. bullet on them in my book.

It is not a matter of the 8x57 being better or worse or anything like that since talking about cartridges and their numbers on a sheet of paper is almost moronic because plenty of cartridges that look great on paper do not perform that great in real life and then some that do not look so hot on paper have 60-150 years of impressive performance on game in the hands of hunters. We are not going to see anyone winning nationals in BR, F-Open, Practical shooting of any kind anytime soon. Even those unethical hunters that think they can kill Elk at 1200 meters with a 6.5CM will not be recommending 1200m Elk kills with a 8x57 so we are really only talking about hunters and not the sort that would hang on on a sight like this well not in America at least. Since few OEM's in America currently chamber rifles for it and gun writers are not singing it's praises most just chalk it up as another obsolete cartridge.

I think the great combination of low cost componets, long barrel life, devastating performance on N. American game at the ranges that 99% of actual hunter take most game a good many unimpressive obsolete cartridges like the 8x57, 7x57, 6.5x57, 7.5x55, 6.5x55, 243Win, 25-06, 308 Win, 30-06, 30-40 Krag, 30-30, 35 Wheelen(sp), 45-70 Govt, 350RM, 300WM,338WM,300WBY while all of them are obsolete they still work great for harvesting game.

I love the 8x57 because ammo is cheap and widely available. I have not lived any place in the USA or Europe that did not have 8x57, 7x57, 308 Win, 243 Win etc.....widely available when it is time to go and hunt! In the USA you could add 30-30 and 12 Slug and Buck Shot to that list usually in the old ever faithful Green and Yellow Remington Core-Lokt box!


I treat the 8x57 as if it is diet 338WM if loaded with 196-200gr bullets. So scale back the effective range for all game you would hunt with the 338WM. It has a larger diamter and the frontal surface is also larger than what you would normally see in mainstream America. Now if you are talking about 150gr factory ammo in America than yes it is a bit anemic but to be honest the 30-06 and 300WM are a waste of potential when people put a 150gr. bullet on them in my book.

It is not a matter of the 8x57 being better or worse or anything like that since talking about cartridges and their numbers on a sheet of paper is almost moronic because plenty of cartridges that look great on paper do not perform that great in real life and then some that do not look so hot on paper have 60-150 years of impressive performance on game in the hands of hunters. We are not going to see anyone winning nationals in BR, F-Open, Practical shooting of any kind anytime soon. Even those unethical hunters that think they can kill Elk at 1200 meters with a 6.5CM will not be recommending 1200m Elk kills with a 8x57 so we are really only talking about hunters and not the sort that would hang on on a sight like this well not in America at least. Since few OEM's in America currently chamber rifles for it and gun writers are not singing it's praises most just chalk it up as another obsolete cartridge.

I think the great combination of low cost componets, long barrel life, devastating performance on N. American game at the ranges that 99% of actual hunter take most game a good many unimpressive obsolete cartridges like the 8x57, 7x57, 6.5x57, 7.5x55, 6.5x55, 243Win, 25-06, 308 Win, 30-06, 30-40 Krag, 30-30, 35 Wheelen(sp), 45-70 Govt, 350RM, 300WM,338WM,300WBY while all of them are obsolete they still work great for harvesting game.

To me the single greatest difference is availability of "quality" ammunition. The 8 X 57 is largely a handloader's proposition as factory loaded ammo for the German round isn't up to the standards one can handload. In this arena the .308 wins easily. and if it's ever happened that you are 1,000 miles from home and need ammo you'll have a much easier time of it if you are looking for the .308.

I hunted elk with a friend once who bought along his .35 Whelen and errored in bringing ammo for his .300 Win Mag by mistake.....we searched all over Denver for .35 Whelen ammo and never found a single round.....it's unusual but it does happen!!

To me it's the single greatest reason to own a .30-06, a .308 Winchester or a .270 Winchester.....good quality ammo is likely avalable in Podunk Iowa if need be.

I like the 308 better, I had an 8x57, better selection of 308 bullets available

I have both, although my .308 is on permanent loan to my BIL apparently. Still, when I had it, the .308 stayed in the safe because I prefer the Mauser rifle that is chambered in 8x57. Truthfully, I have a safe full of guns and nine times out of ten the 8x57 follows me hunting. I like the rifle, I know where it shoots, and I know its limitations.

Functionally, on game, and at the distances that I hunt, there is no difference in the cartridges. If I was hunting a long ways from home and had to take one or the other, I would take the .308. Though only because of ammo availability. I have been in rural gas stations in ID and found 30-06, 308, and 243 ammo.

I own both and I have used both for about 40 years, although I have used the 308 more. That is not to say I like the 308 more, but I can't say I like it a lot less either. I usually go for a 30-06 or a 300 H&H in a bolt action but in autos I have shot more cases of 308 then I can count in my life.

The 8X57 has a lot less different bullets available to the US shooter unless he shoots imported bullets. (As has been notes already several times)

But if you are not adverse to using the imported European bullets there are probably far more 8MM .323" bullets available then you'd really ever need and they cover everything from varmints to deer sized game, to elk size, to target shooting and long range paper punching is NOT a problem with the 8X57, (if any shooter wants to use it for that)

I see the posts about the long heavy .308 bullets, but the truth is that the slight advantage of the 30 cals BCs shot from a 308 Winchester is probably equaled by the slightly faster velocity available from the 8X57 firing bullets of similar weights. If both cartridges were chambered in barrels and are installed in the same action, the bolt thrust at a given pressure and the strength of the action holding them both is the same, so with more volume of powder burning at the same pressure the 8X57 is usually out run the 308. But not by very much. From the standpoint of reality on targets or game I would say the difference is actually meaningless.

As of right now, the only bolt action 308 I own is a Mossberg MVP which is rather utilitarian, but it's very accurate and quite smooth (rare for many MVPs) My only 8X57 I have as of now is my full-stocked Mauser I made for myself a few years back, but I really like it a lot, and I have killed deer elk and antelope with is and just love the way it carries and handles and the accuracy is far better then is should be with just a military barrel (cut down and tapered)

Paper shooting is something I did for years and I was pretty good at it, but I have come to be bored with it, and these days I enjoy field shooting and hunting as much or more then ever, but I no longer shoot in target competitions, so if I were to loose my 308s I would be saddened , but not near as much as I would be if I lost my 8X57. I have also killed elk deer and antelope with my MVP too, but the MVP is a mass-produced rifle I can still buy, and the hand-made Mauser is more dear to me because of the time and labor I invested in making it.

So I think any honest comparison between the 308 and the 8X57 is and will always be a comparison of rifles and purposes the owner of those rifles have, but the 2 cartridges are close enough to overlap about 98%-99% for everything they will do. In other words, it's a matter which you LIKE more but that is usually going to be a matter of the actual rifle, less then the cartridge it's chambered for.

For the tie breaker and the win, when was the last time you bought hunting ammo at a rural gas station (excluding The Fort in Big Timber)?

It's been a while. Ever grab the wrong box of handloads when you were rushing off to a hunt? I haven't in the 25ish years since I did it last.

A non issue if one had enough ammo to start out with.

Ive used and reloaded for both of these for a long time. Here is my 10c not that anyone cares.

They have almost the same powder capacity and are both capable of and suitable for hunting anything anywhere except maybe the big 5 in Africa...and they've both been used many times for all of those even.

8x57 has more recoil and I've never had one that shot anywhere near as well as a 308. Maybe because there are not many great 8mm bullets around...but ive also not had 7x57s shoot as well as the 7-08s ive had so maybe its one of those unexplained things.

Either way...thats my take having hunted, loaded, and shot many a target with both

This reply is NOT directed at ANYONE ! !

This thread is from 2014 **

I have NOT read all of it ! !

WHY would anyone choose the 8X57 over a 308 or esp. 30-06 ?

Unless you just LIKE the round or Rifle. I have 1 Rifle that I really like
IN a cartridge that I don’t need but I like BOTH. I understand that.

Otherwise ? ? ?

Because.

Why Not?

Comparing 8 — 308

Ammo availability.

Ammo variety.

Brass Abailibikity

Those just off the cuff.

Jerry

Not to mention NUMEROUS rifles in 308/06.

Jerry

Do you have to be told that people post here, asking all sorts of questions? This one obviously doesn't agree with you. If it disturbs you, read, but do not post.

Those are all good reasons. Some of which I mentioned earlier today.

Another 5 year old tread resurrected.

I have read that when Germany switched to a pointed 0.323" bullet in place of a round nose 0.318" bullet, the U.S.Army Ordinance Corps was prompted to redesigned the 30-03 and its 220 grain round nose bullet as the 30-06 with a 150 grain pointed bullet.

I have long thought that if the U.S. had adopted the 7.65x53, or a slightly modified 7.62x53, in 1903 we could have skipped both the 30-06 and 7.62x51.

I wonder why so many fewer countries adopted the 7.65x53 than the 8x57 and 7x57.

I posted that on P 9.

I’m NOT trying to stir the pot NOR offend anyone.
Just my thots.

Jerry

REDUX

Whenever I travel more than a couple hours drive from home to hunt game, I always bring along a rifle in 270, 308, or 30-06.

Awhile back I was hunting deer near Wray, CO, and loaned my spare 30-06 to a guy from OH who showed up with a nice rifle in 6.5x55, but no ammo. He called around and couldn't find any 6.5x55 within a 4 hour drive and even if he had, he would have had to miss opening day while he zeroed his rifle with different ammo. I expected Cabela's in Sidney, NE, to have it, but they didn't on that day.

A fella would be really screwed if they forgot their ammo when hunting with me. I'm only a short 300 mile drive from home, but it's at least a 2 hour drive (not counting the jetboat ride) to the nearest store that might carry ammo. Point being, don't forget your ammo, regardless of what caliber you carry.

I was thinking about getting one of those to re-chamber to 8mm/06.

One dumb thing I didn't do.

I guess it is the basic nature of rifle loonies to spar and argue calibers ad infinitum. That's OK, just don't lose sight of the fact that bullet placement is 95% of the argument! Any reasonable rifle/cartridge/bullet combo will work.....if the nut behind it will place the dang payload where it needs to go!

So, rave on about your favorites!

I was sitting in a cafe in Craig, CO before opening day a few years ago and was approached by a fellow looking for a place to buy ammo. He was looking for .30-06 or .300 Win Mag in a 165 gr load and everywhere he had been was sold out. I directed him to Murdoch’s on US-40. Hope he found some. Moral: Rogers Rules for Rangers #1: Don’t forget nothing.

I think I saw one of those 8mm Rem Classics today. Black forend tip, and a tag that said 8mm.

http://allisoncareygunworks.com/

Bruce

.308??????


BLRs, 88s, 99s, 70 feather weights, 77 carbines etc, etc.

8X57?????????

98 s baby, 98 s!!!!!!!!

rifle,

NOTHING if the 8x57mm Mauser is loaded as it is factory-loaded in Europe.
(In fact the 8x57mm in some European loadings, exceeds the .30-06.)

US ammo companies have always down-loaded the 8mm Mauser, so that it could be used in some of the old/weak rifles. = That said, the 8x57mm as loaded in the USA is still a more than adequate deer cartridge.
(The BIGGEST WT "head" that I've ever seen was killed at 150+ M by a man from Upshur County, TX in the 1970s.)

yours, tex

Sorry, the store at Podunk closed 40 years ago. As a former walmart employee I can say the last rifle ammo on the shelf at our store during the BHO years was .270 Winchester. Everything else was gone.

kwg

My buddy John spent the winter of '44 up on the Sigfried line. His assessments were based on the 30-06 vs the 8X57. However, they may be applicable here.

His opinion was that the two rounds were pretty much identical in their effects on the receiving end.

He did give the edge to 30-06 for night use. He said that, in the snow, you could just put a white, wet rag over the barrel of an M1 and do a pretty good job of suppressing the muzzle flash. With the K98, nothing they seemed to do would reduce the flash. As a result, he could recover his eyesight quicker and send off a round back at the spot where he saw the flash faster than the Kraut on the other side could recover his eyesight.

This came in handy one night. John's squad was dug-in in the floor of a wrecked barn. There was fresh snow and a full moon. The Krauts decided to try to infiltrate the lines with SS in full snow camo. It was perfect except for the black suspenders of the ammo belt. It made a perfect X over the center of the chest. John and his buddies spent the night aiming at the X; they dropped countless Germans. The Krauts never saw where the fire was coming from, due to the trick with the wet rag. In the morning, you could walk across the pasture on the dead bodies without touching the ground.

I have used a 30-06 and the 308 WIN to take whitetails at first and last light. The flash from both is substantial. I shot a doe a few years ago in the last minute of legal hunting. I pretty much had to trust the deer was down. I have yet to do so with my Kar 98; to date, all my shots have been in broad daylight.

Shaman,

That is a remarkable story. Glad you shared it..

The 308 will fit in a short action. The 8x57 will fit in a long action but so will a 338-06.

The ancient 8X57 will indeed work, and quite well. I still have my very first deer rifle, a '44 BCD 98K. Not stock per say, has a Bishop stock and a Redfield peep sight, original barrel and front sight. I taken many deer with this rifle, in the Northern MN woods. Not really a long range rig, but I bet I could do quite well against zombies... The 308 is a great round, but all things equal the 8X57 does most anything the 308 will expect that dang fits in a short action... Why that is such a big deal I have no idea.

kwg020,

ImVho, "ammo availability" is an EXCELLENT reason for buying/KEEPING a .30-06. - Even in "Podunk no place" Northeast Texas where I'm from, .30-06 is available all the time, even in little "convenience" stores at numerous country crossroads & sometimes even at places like gas stations, farm supply stores & "bait & tackle shops"..

Neither 8mm Mauser nor .308WCF is always available in a LOT of smaller communities but .30-30WCF & .30-06 shells nearly always are.

yours, tex

I respectfully disagree. The 308 has got to be the most common round in the world at this point. It’s everywhere

I don't know about the 8x57 vs. 7.62x51, but if the U.S. military had adopted the 7.65x53, or a modified 7.62x53, instead of the 30-40 Krag, they could have skipped right over the 30-06 and 308.

I don’t have the stats handy so

I’d say it’s likely a toss up which one is more readily available.

Maybe someone has the stats handy.

The 8 Mauser can’t be close to either of those.


Jerry

I'm with 260 Rem...the 7.65 x 53 is pretty much my final choice after years of shooting and reloading pretty much all the WW I and WW II calibers. There are NO bad old military calibers but the "Belgian Mauser" does it all with no fuss. The Graf & Sons special order 174 gr HPBT, .312 is just superb in my 1935 Peruvian and rings 700 yard steel with considerable more authority than my Swede or 6.5 Swede-moor.