Anyone have experience handling or shooting one of these rifles ?
I will have one that has been sporterized by next week.
Just curious if they are a good rifle.
Are they Just a 98 chambered for 30-06
Any quirks about them?Good steel used in them etc.

Mine made a great donor action for my 9.3x62.

Here's a Belgium FN 98 with custom work and Canjar trigger I picked up from a Fire contributor. Built it into 9.3x62 with Shilen barrel. Then, I traded for an AHR CZ 550 in 9.3x62. I sold the 9.3x62 Shilen barrel and put a 6.5x55 Shilen on the action. Stock is a B&C Medalist. Those are nice actions for a custom build.

DF

Thanks for info
I think I will just leave mine in the Mundane 30-06.Stepped barrel and all.
If it shoots good that is.
If it doesn,t then I may have
to rebarrel .
To another barrel in 30-06 !
Mauser in 30-06 just seems to be a great combo.
I do hope that these rifles are not super heavy though.

They're neither the lightest nor the heaviest of actions. Rifle weight depends on how they're set up, barrel size and length, stock, etc.

I don't see them as a popular choice for LW rifles.

They are a great choice for tough, using rifles suitable for harsh conditions and hard use.

DF

Thanks,this one will come with original stepped barrel,Dont know how much the stock is going to weigh.
I just dont want to start with a rifle that weighs 9 pounds without scope !
Tough using rifle is exactly what I had in mind for a Mauser 30-06
I already have a couple of 98's in 8x57 J and both are lightweights so I needed this like I need another hole in the head BUT I wanted it !
I really like Mausers!

I understand a Loony's confession of "need" and I understand your "thing" with Mausers...

DF

I think you will be pleasantly surprised. I have been wanting an FN action with the stepped military barrel in 3006 for quite a while. The action will weigh around 45 ounces and the stepped military barrel will be slightly over 32 ounces, depending on where the steps in the barrel are. A 29 inch barrel cut down is usually heavier than a 24 inch from the factory. If it is an FN barrel they are usually quite accurate. So depending on the stock the gun should weigh slightly less than 7 lbs, which is a very nice weight. Enjoy.

I have owned a couple of FN Mauser rifles, a 30-06 and a 250-3000. Very nice rifles, dont see many of them around anymore.
Would love to own one in 9x57mm, but have never even seen one.

My primary carry rifle for many years was one of those FN actions with a FN stepped 30-06 barrel. The stepped feature kind of grew on me and It shot so sell I purchased a couple extra surplus ( new in factory wrappers ) barrels .

Mine, a factory FN, shoots very well and is made as a proper rifle should be made. If weight is not a matter I cannot imagine a better hunting tool.

Thanks guys
Nice pics of rifles as well !

The rifle you reference was made between about 1949-1952. The "C" ring inside is broached on only the right side. Unlike most Mausers they are made of 4140 ordinance steel. They may be the finest sporting Mauser action ever made other than the GMA's which start at $3500.

My custom FN Mauser sporter in 35 Whelen is so well balanced that it definitely feels lighter than it is at about 8 3/4 lbs scoped. The stock fits well so the recoil seems less than my 30-06. I expect you will be happy with the rifle.

Thanks again,
Learning alot from this thread.

I've had a couple of the rifles made for Sears on the commercial actions and one of the FN sporters, which I never fired. I just can't seem to hold on to them for some reason.

They're a little heavy, the bolts wobble a bit, and the front action screw goes right into the small recoil lug; all deadly faults according to current thinking. But to my eye, and in my hands, nothing can compare to a good 98, and the FNs are among the finest, certainly the best within the grasp of most of us. There's something about that big chunk of machined, forged steel that just shouts "Rifle".

I hope I didn't make any of you cry.

I was about to pull the trigger on that action when I phoned my Smith to ask a few build questions, went back to holler the three magic words and it was gone, you fast drawing *^$@#$%^&*%#$.

Gunner

That's funny, Gunner.

Glad I was there to protect you from yourself....

DF

bcraig;
Thanks for starting the educational thread, I appreciate yet again the input from our members.

As it turns out the FN barrel information is timely for me as I'm putting together an '06 for our eldest daughter using a stepped FN barrel and VZ24 action. It shot quite well in the tester stock and so she's going to get the first full length, Mannlicher style stock I've ever built.

I'll say before leaving that subject that inletting the steps into a full wood stock is proving to be much more time consuming than I'd thought it might be.

As far as the FN actions, as others have stated they made actions for a lot of companies, among them the large ring Husqvarna rifles from the '50's.

While overall quality is very much a subjective thing, I'd say that in my opinion based upon playing with various Mauser type actions over the last 30 + years that it'd be a toss up between FN and the Swedish built actions for overall fit and finish.

I can only guess what a new one would cost these days, but it would likely be quite steep judging from the finish on today's rifle actions.

Hopefully that was useful information to you or someone out there this morning sir. Good luck with your rifle whichever way you decide.

Dwayne

Yeah, Thanks Buddy. lol

Gunner

Way back when, I bought two of these($300 total)From Springfield Sporters and wish I had bought one of those new extra barrels when they were available.

Didn't change any thing on them. Gave one to a friend and shot the heck out of the other. Long for a truck rifle but that's where it rode for many years.

Sent it down the road with most of my other firearms just recently.

ED: You rifle and DF's 9.3 look entirely too retro,on the heavy side,and likely have not been blueprinted so may not shoot well.

Although it happens now and then,the extractor might not break,the rifle will function flawlessly with a handful of sand in the actions,and the bolt handles probably won't fall off. These are terrible burdens,and unfair to the animals you hunt because there is too much certainty that your rifle will work when you need it to... .

This also detracts from the drama of the Internet, denying us all countless hours of entertainment.Maybe worst of all, neither rifle has a warranty

I don't want you guys to suffer from these shortcomings so you can send them here anytime these burdens become too much to bear.

Yep. That written, I do have a 270 Montana awaiting when I get back to the State's in October. May even dump some DBC down the hole...

If you see a Sears JC Higgins snap it up; it's essentially the same action. I let one go that was offered for a song and I'm still kicking myself over that.

BobinNH, yourself and BC30cal are two of the ncest Gents to ever grace the innernets, I stand humbled and jealous of your levels of humanity and kindness.

Gunner

While these actions look like the FN's made for Sears/JC Higgins, they most definitely are not the same. Many of the JCH were way too hard approaching brittle. They had the C ring broached thru on both sides. The JC's are nowhere near the action that these 1950's actions are. Send it to me where it will have a proper home.

There was a Higgins 270 cal in the classifieds not long back for 400 bucks, I've also heard they had very nice barrels on em too, the next one I see I may have to grab it up, that is if QuickDraw DF dont see it first. lol

Gunner

Yet another 24HR act of kindness.

Gunner

Gunner, BC30 and I have the milk of human kindness oozing from every pore...

Yes, even a little bulb that shines as dim as mine can easily see this. lol

Gunner

Oh. I didn't know that. Thanks for the info. Now I feel a lot better about letting the one I saw get past me. I'm feeling pretty good about it, in fact.

I know about the C and H ring business, but I have never heard about those actions being too hard. Where did you hear that? What I've read is that most Mausers, except for crude wartime production, are surface hardened, but ductile underneath.

Sounds like a job for Mule Deer, who has played with these a good bit, I believe.

I'd suggest that RinB was imparting a little tongue in cheek humour on action hardness.

Photo demo to those who don't understand "C" and "H" Mauser configuration. Here's a photo of the 50's vintage FN 98. Clearly it's an "H", as you can see both raceways milled thru. The "C" version has only the extractor raceway milled thru, the opposite side is solid. Older Mausers and CZ's are "C". I'm not sure when FN went to the "H" configuration. "C", reportedly, gives better control of hot gases from case failure. I would assume "H" is cheaper to machine.

DF

I think RinB meant they were too "hard" for you to keep. He was offering his rescue services to take those defective actions off your hands, for your protection, of course...

DF

Thanks for the pic and info .

JC Higgins 30/06
HAven't had time to even work on load development, but it sure handles nicely.

nice !

I remember seeing those J. C. Higgins Mausers displayed at Sears as a youngster. I sure don't remember seeing wood even close to that handle.

Now, don't ya think something happened to that gun from it's debut at Sears to your safe.. ??

DF

Ditto!

Mighta been buffed out a little bit huh?

For sure...

I'd like to get a line on what kinda wax Fireball2 been using on that one...

DF

Didn't Marlin and Harrington & Richardson offer up a bolt rifle with the same FN action about the same time as the Sears rifles?

Btw, Fireball, very nice rifle!!!!

Yes they did, and so did Colt. A friend of mine picked up a JC
Higgins for $229 a couple of months ago.

Those gotta be some of the best bargains in the gun world...

Sleepers, for sure.

DF

Same pard has an FN Mauser action built for the 222 family of
cartridges still NIB.

I'll take it!

Tried to buy it when he first got it, but he insists he is going to build a rifle on it someday. This thing has to be from the 1950s or 1960s.

And Husqvarna too. My old beechwood Husky 9.3x62.

Nice looking rifles in this post for sure.

The. J C Higgins (model50???) come thru our shop for general maintenance all the time. Occasionally a customer will part with one. I had forgotten about the Colt Rifles. Some of the Colts used Sako actions too, didn't they???

Yes! I've poster her pic several times before but my 9.3 x 62 Husky too!!! Love this rifle!



Everything I use it on just dies!

Looks like yours in built on the Swede?

It's a 146 on the FN 98 action. First year of production with the 98's. 1938. Originally a x 57. Co-worker and I rechambered it on a slow day! I've killed elk, deer, and hawgs with it since then.

Lots of Husqvarna/Fn actioned rifles on this side of the border at very reasonable prices, usually! The model 1000 comes with a decent French walnut stock pretty well suited for a scope and the FN left side safety. I have one in 30-06 that shoots accurately and is very reliable.
In a perfect world they'd be about 1/2 lb lighter but a decent quality synthetic fixes that problem quickly if it is a concern.

If stuck with an overly heavy '06, etc., a rebore to .35 Whelen or 9.3x62 is an attractive option.

Rather inexpensive way to get into one of those rounds and drop a few ounces of pork at the same time.

DF

Yeah, if you're out and about, shooting rocks on the ranch with the .505 Gibbs or .577, you could miss out on a great deal.

I'll send you a PM right after I nail one of those...

DF

Yes, a rebore works just fine. This FN was a 30-06. I had Cliff LaBounty rebore it to 9.3x62 in 2000.



Same rifle in 2002 wearing a synthetic.

Ed is that a Whitworth???

Thanks Main, I knew I could count on you. lol

Gunner

Nope. It is an FN that I bought in 1998 at a pawn shop when I was living in Kansas. It came in a beautifully made maple Weatherby'ish stock. The barrel is stamped "C-D Gunshop Wiesbaden" and the story was that a chap in the Army brought it back many years ago. It was in as new condition. The wood stock came off of the AR forum. I bedded it and Karnis refinished it adding the ebony forend tip and crossbolt.

You know I'm here to help ya...

DF

Should have know Karnis had a hand in that project...

Beautiful gun, but you have a bunch of fine guns. I never get tired of looking at them.

DF

Well it is a very nice looking rifle!!!!! Love it's lines!

I don't think I need any help in that department; I seem to be able to get rid of them all by myself. The last one, at least, is still in the family if not in my hands. Hope I do a better job hanging on to the Bofors Steel Sako that's coming soon.

Let me be clear about "hard". Some of the FN actions made for the JC Higgins rifles were excessively hard on the RockwellC scale. They need to be "drawn" to be slightly softer. Said another way to make them less brittle. I am talking about the H ring type which I have always heard described as "double broached". The 1950 series FN actions have a C ring, are made from great steel, and have the C ring. I want all of those I can find. Don't give me a JC with the H ring!
Some of the SAKO and Husky's are also made of great steel and correctly hardened I hear but have no personal knowledge there.

Yeah, those Swedes do know how to make steel.

What year did FN go from C to H?

DF

Curious. Were there any known safety issues with H-ring FN actions with regards to brittleness? Or was the 'hardness' a gunsmithing problem ie D&T and surface grinding?

Carbon, I was wondering the same thing here! Good info, this thread!

That they do. A Jim Wisner M96 7x57.

Kaywoodie,

The pic of your 146 Husqvarna appears to have the L shape cocking piece unique to M96 but you said that your 146 is a M98 . Is the cocking piece appearance just an artifact of the pic?

Quit it right now Ed!!! Too early in the morning for awesome rifle porn!!

I've got a whole day ahead of me!

I have a four digit (4XXX) FN Banner rifle with the Browning style bolt shroud, trigger w/the three position sliding safety, and steel floor plate. The barrel is a gracefully contoured, perhaps chrome lined, 24" .30-06. A small factory looking caliber marking is the only marking on the barrel.

It wears a trim custom stock, not fancy wood, but remarkable in execution. Short forearm, oak leaf edged fine line checkering, rust bluing and a German silver grip cap finish off the rifle. Oh yes, a Neidner checkered steel butt plate. It shoots 180 light magnums very close to an inch. I bought a large supply of that back in the day, but it is about gone. Everything I pull the trigger on with that one dies.

I also have a matched pair of Browning Safaris on the small ring FN in .243 and .308 with pencil barrels. These rifles are amazingly accurate for three shots. Never shot for five as they are not target built guns.

IMHO, blue printing these three would be a waste of time and money. The work just fine as they are. They were built with old world craftsmanship.

Best wishes,

Jack

Yes. It's a straight 98 thru and thru. That pic kinda sucks. I took it spur of the moment on that stump headed back to camp last elk season.

I have another 146 that wifey gave me. It's still a x 57. One of the reasons I snagged the one I rechambered to x62 was it was a 98 and it had an excellent bore.

Carbon, here's a better pic of the bolt shroud.

Yep. M98.

Unusual forward sweep on the bolt handle. Kinda like the MAS 36. Any reason for that?

That's the way I got it! Long too! I've caught a lot of flak over that bolt handle! LOL! But I kinda like it!!!! Sure is easy to get to and it doesn't get in the way any worse than a more conventional handle. I'm afraid to change it now. Take all the "medicine" out of it!

Looking at the vintage Husqvarna Mausers that Simpson LTD imports from Sweden, some of those old time Swedes have some funky mods.

Top of the heap.

M96 are small ring actions but the pics show what looks to be a large ring action. Was the action surface ground/milled to resemble a large ring, perhaps to reduce weight?

simpsons sure does have a ton of 9.3s

Both of mine were imported by Simpson. Got one at Cabelas the other from a local dealer friend.

Early (1948 /49? ) FN's were single broached. I had one and sold it in a very weak moment.......the gas handling qualities ( with all due regard to Finn ) are subjective at best. All 98's and their clones have the bolt gas ports on the left side when the bolt closes. It directly faces the left lug raceway wall, so the flange on the bolt shroud is a necessity. So double broaching isn't so bad. Certainly not a deal killer. Yes, I love the Mauser actions regardless of perceived shortcomings.

John Boy, I love my Mausers too!!!!

I seem to have acquired one of these, myself. Interesting that the action is still not D&T for a scope, just the receiver sight holes - so the nice FN logo on the front receiver ring is unaltered. On the minus side, the previous owner cut the stock shorter, so I need to figure out what to do with it.

If someone out there stumbles across an original unaltered stock for one of the step barrel rifles, I'd be real interested in it.

And need to put a M70 safety on it, too

Stock...?

That's easy, a yellow and purple McSwirly...

DF

Yeah Pat! What DF said!!!!

Carbon 12,
I learned about the issue of excessive hardness of SOME of the J C Higgins FN actions from Jerry Fisher and Tom Burgess. Both know more about such things than anyone I know. Also, some of the Pre-war M 70's are too hard. As hardness increases so does brittleness. Glass is hard and brittle. The solution is to draw down the hardness by annealing. Most Mausers are made of high carbon steel which is case hardened...not heat treated. Most modern actions are made of 4140 type ordinance steel which is heat treated. The 1950 FN actions are 4140...really great! Don't know about the H ring FN's.
All of the Higgins FN's are H ring actions.

Would" excessive hardening of the steel"as you put it soften over a span of say 50 years?
Just out of curiosity ,why would a manufacturer make a reciever that was BRITTLE ?

Two pieces of heat treated steel can have widely different properties, even if their composition and hardness is the same. If the steel was over-heated during austenitizing, it will have large grain size after quenching and tempering, and may even have tiny inter-granular cracks, which can drastically reduce toughness. When such parts break, the fractures look almost like cast iron.

All it takes is someone letting a process get out of control, or some genius decides that the process can go faster if they use more heat

No, steel does not "soften" over time

'fraid I'd have to pass on a swirly. At least for an old Mauser

Thanks,I did not know.

Would be different...

Trend setting different..??

The Fire crowd never seems to tire of the various McSwirly patterns, long threads about colors, percentages, etc., etc.

Who knows...

DF

I like swirly wood. plastic, not so much

Agree, especially on a classic Mauser.

But, there's always the McWoody...

DF

Yep. Jim gave it the G33/40 treatment, his three position safety and a fair bit of other bells and whistles.

This
There are some fine fine fine looking rifles on this post and a LOT of usefull info here.
Thanks for sharing guys

My Sako FN in 300 H&H is with Charlie Santoni at this time being coated and bedded in its Mcwoody . This photo got me going.

Photos required when you get it back...!

DF

Yes sir , will post her up.

Again thanks to all contributors! Learned a lot of good info!!!!

I did note some folks are selling stocks semi-inletted in the Griffin & Howe pattern, which I assume has bit more drop and would work better for iron sights. That might be the direction I go with it, eventually.

The plain, cheap wood that they used causes too many to overlook the terrific shapes of early Husqvarna (M46 small ring and M146 large ring) stocks for iron sight use. Either of those patterns duplicated in decent wood would be near perfection for irons.

Agreed!!! Ironsights on my 146 in 9.3x57 this past January.

Slightly off topic, and Im not trying to high jack this thread, but why are 9.3x57mm rifles so easy to find and you seldom if ever see 9x57mms?

Danke.

I think the 9.3 x 57 was like the 30/30 of Scandinavia. Just my speculation. So Husqvarna made lots of em! Like I said just speculation on my part!

WAG:

Used 9.3 X 57 Husqvarnas come mostly from Sweden. 9 X 57 chambered rifles are usually German/Austrian rifles. Sweden has firearm ownership laws, one of which limits the number of rifles a citizen can own at one time. IIRC, the number is six. If a citizen who has a limit of rifles and wants a new one, an old one must be sent down the road. For whatever reason, vintage 9.3x57 Husqvarnas seem to often get the boot. It has been posted by several Swedish members of this forum that 9.3x57 Husqvarnas have little value in Sweden. USA and Canadian importers seeing a buy low, sell high opportunity have been supplying the North American market with the beauties that you are seeing. Germans and Austrians apparently are not under any pressure to dump their 9x57 Mausers and Mannlichers.

I'm still not quite sure what you're saying here. Are the actions so hard as to be brittle and unsafe, or just difficult to machine? Did your sources have an explanation for the condition? I suppose if a different alloy was used for some reason, it could too hard, but otherwise, the only way I can see this happening is if an error was made during the surface hardening process.
Fisher and Burgess certainly know their business, but this is the first time I've ever heard this, and I've never heard of action failure on any FN caused by such a condition.
As far as I know, all the pre-64 M70s are machined from bar stock, but I don't what kind of heat treating they got. I do know they can be "exciting" in the event of a case failure, because I witnessed it once, but again, I've never heard of an action failure.
Thanks.

I've read this too, Carbon. From one of the members here on the fire in Europe.

I bet a lot of 9x57's got used up in Africa too! Just plain attrition. Again speculation on my part!

And I cannot begin to describe how irritating it is to have none come this way at the give-away prices you lot are enjoying.

If I can hunt one down here I will be looking at the better part of two grand...if someone will part with one.

Yikes!

Curious. What would it take to get someone to part with a Brno 21H in your part of the world?

This one set me back $3300.00 last year.



This 7x57 I sold for $1800.00 a few weeks ago, it went with the better part of 300 RWS cases, plus dies.

Lovely.

Much more attractive than the pile of cash it took to buy it.

That is what I thought, but I think my wife disagrees.

Then, my Aussie friend, please stop reading, or this will really piss you off...

I saw one for sale 2 weeks ago for 500 Swedish Kronor -- $AUD 80 (yes, eighty Australian bucks, $USD 75). It was an unmolested Husqvarna 9.3 x 57 on a Mauser 98 action, and it was not even drilled and tapped for a scope mount. I think I'd glass bed to keep the stock from splitting, and rechamber to 9.3 x 62 to get a light powerful Mauser. I might do this and part with my .375 H & H Sako...

OK, I was just teasing you a little. That particular 500 Kronor rifle was quite a bargain -- they commonly bring more like the equivalent of 170 Australian dollars ($USD 159!) Ha! Still, not bad if you like Mauser actions...

And no, I can't export'em to you. I can't even collect more than 6 myself... :-(

John

This world is an evil cruel realm, and you have just confirmed it.

I have long held that the 146 in 9.3 is the absolute best buy that money can give.

You won't get an argument from me on that.

The younger hunters sneer at these old Husqvarna 9.3 x 57s and call them "potato tosser". Then, they buy some modern bolt action with a 6 pound trigger and ugly laminated plywood or too-easily bent tupperwear stock. Sigh...

John

You have just described the dills over here, and I have given up attempting to educate...now I just go my own way.

Can't say that I am too broken up about that attitude amongst young Swedish hunters.

RinB, Rick, I wanted to bump this question as I too am curious as to what FN did to their actions at the same time as they broached the H ring ?
Did they change the steel or the treatment ? Is the excess hardness just in some samples or only a few ? And where is this information available?

Thanks

I am curious about the heat-treating too, as have owned more than a few of those JCH actions and never had any problems. But then I didn't pay anybody to engrave them, and don't normally try to turn .30-06's into .300 magnums.

As a side note, one of them had an old .270 Winchester factory round blow a hole through it's side-wall, just above the case head, when I was shooting it. Despite being an "H-ring" all I felt was a slight bit of hot gas on the area of my left cheekbone.

Phil and John,
There is a lot of bull**** out in internet land about Mausers and steel and hardness. What I know I got from Tom Burgess, Jerry Fisher, Ted Blackburn, and Mark Penrod. Tom thought the 1949 and 1950 "C" were the best 98's ever made. Penrod recently told me they were made of 4140 rather than the material the original Mauser's had been made of. Of course 4140 is the same steel in M70's and is considered ordinance steel cause it is commonly used for actions barrels etc. Jerry told me he does not like the JC Higgins FN's because he has had some that were way to hard. His concern has nothing to do with engraving. Mausers were designed to have a very hard skin and a soft core which is why they were made of steel to be case hardened or carburized, which means to have a hard thin skin. The new GMA actions are very good...made of 8620 and then cased so as to have a hard tough skin but a ductile core. They are expensive but really great. They are also very precisely made.
Obviously, many of the double broached later FN 's are ok but it is not rare to find an old Weatherby that has set back because it is too soft or shot with hot ammo.
Blackburn, towards the end of this career refused to turn a Mauser into a .532 magnum. Best leave them as 30-06, 270, 9.3-62, etc. Tom felt the same. While it could be done it was not preferred.

Thanks for the reply, I have the utmost respect for the quality and integrity of all the smiths you mentioned but still wonder if they might have possibly got a poor example as I have seen examples of in the white FN actions offered for sale as "not heat treated" .

And Weatherby's are not the only examples of Mausers that show set-back. I have seen it in numerous Military actions as well as on Mk X's. And most had been converted to magnum length.

Ditto!

And since this forum is also discussing Swedish "potato tossers" I just had my son's newest acquisition ( a Husky 9.3x57) apart and it is built on a M 98 action with FN proofs and a C ring.

Rick and Phil,

I�m addressing you both in this post because it seems we�re the 3 most involved in this particular part of the thread .

I know many top gunsmiths who would disagree with the assessment of other top gunsmiths. In fact I know one top gunsmith who apprenticed with one of the four guys Rick mentions, but disagrees with several notions of his mentor because he's tested them and found them wanting, despite his mentor�s long experience.

I didn't get my ideas on commercial Mauser 98 actions off the Internet, but from various top gunsmiths, including Dave Gentry, who knew more about 98's than any gunsmith I've known. Dave MADE 98 actions, including left-hand, "Kurz" and magnum versions, many of which were used by various custom smiths as well as famous British gun companies. He also probably built more rifles on 98 actions of various sorts than most "traditional" smiths, because he started making synthetic-stocked rifles very early on, using his own layups.

Dave not only had the highest regard for ANY 98 actions made by FN, but also thought Mark X's were made of very good steel, even if some were roughly machined (though he also had an early Mark X that was as finely finished as any FN I�ve seen). He tested every 98 action he used, and if reheat-treating was needed sent them to the same company recommended in Jerry Kuhnhausen�s book, THE MAUSER BOLT ACTIONS, A SHOP MANUAL.

Kuhnhausen also doesn�t mention any frequent problems with commercial FN actions, though he does mention the differences in steel between early 98�s and post-WWII actions. There�s far more detail about the subject in R.A. Walsh�s book on making sporting rifles, MAUSER MODEL 98 AND 96. Walsh is a top-notch engineer who makes custom Mauser rifles on the side, and knows more about Mauser steel than most gunsmiths. He doesn�t mention any consistent problem with the steel in later commercial actions either.

I know that engineers disagree (one friend says the definition of two engineers in the same room is �an argument�), partly because I recently had two engineers write me about a technical point in one of my articles. One said the result was due to too-short headspace, and the other said the headspace was too long! I�ve seen the same thing with gunsmiths, so am naturally slightly skeptical about the opinions of even the legendary list in Rick�s post.

One of my own guesses about problems with many commercial Mauser actions, especially those used for belted magnum cartridges, is that many if not most have been due to factory rifles where locking lug contact wasn�t checked. One of the examples in de Haas�s BOLT ACTION RIFLES is a cracked locking lug on a .300 Weatherby, but that could have easily happened if only one lug was bearing. Dave Gentry built a bunch of his �affordable� Roughrider rifles, which used the Mark X action, in various belted magnum rounds, including the .300 Weatherby and .375 H&H, with never a problem. But he also made sure bolt lugs were firmly bearing.

Might also mention that the original .375 H&H rifles made by Holland and Holland used standard-length actions from the Mauser Werke, and were noted for their reliability. Then there was the legendary .416 Rigby owned and used by Harry Selby for many years, which was also made on a standard 98 action. Admittedly the .416 is a low-pressure cartridge, but it is a LOT bigger around than any belted magnum, and Selby used his for decades (often in very hot weather), with no problems.

As Jack O�Connor once said, anybody who thinks they know everything about Mauser actions is in for some surprises. I am a big Mauser fan, and am surprised every year.

Thank you gentlemen.

Appreciate the discussion on Mauser technicana

Thanks John, My experiences pretty well mirror yours.
We are both well aware that just because one or more experts, or gun writers, claims it is true does not make it so.

John and Phil,
Burgess thought the Mark X actions were among the toughest he had ever encountered. I had a chance to buy a Mark X barreled action in 458 for $195. Wish I had done that.

The 98's rarely are a problem if they are left at the .473 head size cartridges. Also, in the days when the military and FN Mausers were commonly used, the standard load development technique was to load until there were obvious marks on the case head or the bolt had to be pounded open or the primer was pretty flat and then back off a grain or two. Handloaders routinely ran pressures that were way too high. Those actions never gave way. On the other hand I have seen several pre 64's that let go and when they did there were lots of flying chucks of metal. A guy I knew from that era ran 160 Partitions out of his 7RM AT 3250! I know cause he ran his loads over my chronograph. Scared me.

The complaints that I have heard about the double broached FN's related to only a few actions but those guys had very little tolerance for things that were not just exactly right.

Phil,
Speaking of actions that are not hardened. When you buy a Hagn action or an FZH Mauser or some of those other currently manufactured Mausers, which are pretty high dollar items, you will note in the fine print that they need to be hardened by the purchaser. There is a certain amount of movement in the parts during that process, I hesitate to call it warpage, but there is some pretty delicate hand fitting that is needed after the very expensive rifle is darn near done. That is why more "modern" actions are made from prehardened blanks.

John,
While I really like your source who had associated with my sources, he has made very few rifles not even close to the volume of Gentry.

In the end, who knows? I have become a Remington clone convert.

Rick,

Yeah, that's one of the problems with many high-end custom rifle makers: They don't have as near as much experience with various actions, since they don't make nearly as many rifles as some guys who make rifles costing 1/4 as much. Consequently any bad experience with a certain make of action gets magnified.

You should have heard Dave Gentry on pre-'64's!

My .375 H&H is based on Mark X barreled action I got for $225 in the early 1990's.

I am also a fan of 700's and their clones, though at least one of the high-$$ clones isn't all it's been cracked up to be on the Internet either. Learned that from one of those custom gunmakers who makes a lot of synthetic-stocked rifles. Oh, and I've even taken dangerous game with a Remington 700 and lived to tell about it....

John,
If I had bought that Mark X 458 barreled action, I could trade it to Phil for a bear hunt...laughing!!! How about it a Phil?
Best to you both,
Rick

Rick, I was aware that a number of high end actions needed to be hardened before being put into use and there is considerable difference in opinions between a number of top end builders as whether or not to re-harden old actions.

And while I don't consider myself a M-700 "fan", I will acknowledge it's many good features and some of the best "clones" pretty well clean up all it's weaknesses. With equal amount of time and attention to detail as a Mauser requires, the best Remington clones give up little, if anything, in reliability and certainly up the accuracy potential.

I have been mighty happy with my Mk X 458, and have a second one in reserve, so will probably have to pass. The rifle that currently has my attention is the GMA 33-40 9.3x62 that Joe Smithson built. I want to see your 30-06 like it when it is done.

If a man wanted to learn all he could about Mausers(and I do)which 2 or 3 books should I get?
Craig

Well, I looked again at this FN, and realized it's got plenty of rust starting on it At least I only have $300 in it. I wiped it down with Break Free to stop the rust.

I reckon I'll see how it shoots, then go from there as to how best to restore it. I'd rather not D&T that nice FN logo on the front receiver ring, so I think it may wind up with a receiver sight..and maybe as a Whelan, or a 9.3x62





It is only a 4 digit serial number; I cannot find a year of mfg, so I may take some close up photos of the proof marks.

If it has a rear sight and you want to use an optic I think that scope mounts are made the attach to the rear sight and then use a pistol scope on it or intermediate eye relief scope and not have to drill and tap.

http://www.amazon.com/Scout-Weaver-Mauser-Series-Rifles/dp/B001G8ZPUA

http://www.brownells.com/optics-mou...ses/mauser-98-scope-mount-prod22431.aspx

http://www.scopemounts.com/index.html?instapics.html

Craig, I would say that Mauser Bolt Rifles by Ludwig Olson and Jerry Kuhnhausen's shop manual The Mauser bolt Action, both available and affordable from Brownells are the best books to start from.

if you get further into the subject all three of John Speed's books are superb but rapidly becoming collectors items.

Thank you Phil,appreciate it.
Craig

Tex n cal,
That rifle you have pictured is without question one of the best ever. It is a 1949-1950 "c" ring action. Treat it kindly but use it. Don't ever part with it, at least if you want a fine Mauser. If you get tired of it let me know.
Rick
PS to my knowledge they were only made in 30-06 & 270.

This has all been very interesting, and a good bit to digest at one sitting.

If I might give the pot one final stir, let me ask how you gentlemen regard the CZs, which I believe have the "C" broaching, in comparison to the FNs and Zastavas?

I'm getting to the age where I'm not likely to "need" any more rifles (the same age as JB), but there might just be one more episode of Mauser lust left in me and a CZ, perhaps fitted with the Gentry safety and shroud seems like a good way to cool me off with a minimum of time and trouble.

Thanks.

Gary

I seem to recall a thread many years ago on AR that Mr. Burgess either started or contributed heavily on that discussed the hardness issue mentioned here on some FN's. A search over their will likely turn it up but I cannot remember the handle he used as it was an odd alpha-numeric one that made little "sense" IIRC.

Tom Burgess went as Systeme98 -- but I think that was on AccurateReloading.com.

Perhaps he used the same handle on both sites.

John

Okay gentlemen, talk to me about the actions on the old Browning Safaris. Obviously it is made by FN, mine was made in 1974. It is a 30-06 with the long extractor. Is it a "real" Mauser, a clone, or something else? Where does it fit in?

Note I reference AR, Accurate Reloading.

Gary, I'm in the same boat. Doubt I'll be wearing out any of my Mausers. (But I do have this idea for a Model 8 Remington project)... I digress,,, I have been lucky enough to snags a few old 98's and they do get the dust knocked off of em on occasion.

Again, I echo the posts of others, very informative thread!

Bob

Model 8, huh. You have a serious problem there! Just taking one of those apart and getting it back together would be more than enough project for most folks.

Don't dawdle on this one for learning all you could...

Jon Speed - back in print

I do not doubt it, it seem to be a fine rifle. I'd prefer a M70 safety, but otherwise it clearly was made by people who remembered how it was done before the war.

I shall have to work on getting it restored as much as practical; it seems worthy of the effort.

They were chambered for other cartridges besides 270 and 30/06.

There are a couple of these on GI right now chambered 250-3000,and 257 Roberts.

I had a 7x57,and have seen an 8x57, and regret not buying it...very clean rifle.

Whether all of these that I have seen were single or double broached I can't recall.

bcraig,

I'd also advise starting with the same two books Phil suggested, Lud Olson's MAUSER BOLT RIFLES and Jerry Kuhnhausen's THE MAUSER BOLT ACTION shop manual . R.A. Walsh's book is also good for those wanting to build a Mauser sporter, but has less overall info than Kuhnhausen's. Jon Speed is for those wanting t buy genuine Mauser Werke sporters.

I luv em!!!!

Pappy348,

While the CZ's don't have all the features of many 98's, they're close enough--and as I noted earlier, the H versus C ring thing is overblown. Would rather put my face behind either variety of Mauser-type action than any Winchester Model 70 CRF, even the latest actions with the gas block.

The CZ 550's are good semi-copies of the 98 design, with excellent barrels, and are usually very accurate right out of the box. The safety holds the firing pin back and locks the bolt down, and is quicker than a Model 70 type, so I wouldn't bother replacing it.

The only real downsides to the CZ's (if you can call them downsides) are a fairly complicated set trigger, some extra weight, and the scope mounts. I've never had any trouble with a CZ set trigger in over a dozen years of traveling the world with CZ rifles, but some people prefer to replace them with simpler Timney triggers. The scope mounts work very well but aren't exactly handsome, so many people replace them with Talleys.

The weight depends on you. For most I don't find anything wrong with an 8-1/2 pound (scoped) big game rifle, but some do.

John thank you as well,appreciate it

Agree on CZ's.

The barrels look like match grade tubes thru the Hawkeye and they generally shoot great without much fouling. (DBC does help with that)

I adjusted my 550 trigger to a very clean 2.5#'s, eliminating the set trigger feature. The trigger slot in the bottom metal isn't long enough to accommodate a trigger set up like that and on removing the action, the MIM trigger broke. In set trigger mode, the trigger will swing forward enough to prevent that from happening. I was amazed how easily that part broke. It wasn't in that big a bind.

Instead of getting another MIM CZ part, I got a Timney. Super easy installation and a wonderful 2.5# pull. And, the trigger sits farther back in the trigger guard and looks more like a Mauser should look, IMHO. I did have to extend the bottom metal trigger slot, which wasn't that hard to do with the Dremel.

CZ's can be a tad heavy, but are super rifles.

DF

I don't worry about the "C" ring either, else my main hunting rifle wouldn't be a 1950 vintage M70. I've never been one to get to frisky with my loads, not on purpose anyway, and after witnessing a couple of gassy episodes involving other shooters( check the adjacent thread on M84s), I'm pretty careful about protecting my eyes, at least at the range. Once I popped a primer on a .257 load in a sporter built on an FN barreled action, but the only damage was to my self esteem.

As far as the CZs go, the safety isn't that big a deal and I like set triggers as long as the unset pull is reasonable. I apparently don't worry much about the weight either or I'd stay out of the ice cream freezer at Food Lion. Like you, I don"t care for the looks of the mounts and would probably go for something lighter and lower. I'm very impressed with the one-piece Talleys on my M70.

Thanks for the response.

Gary

I'm certainly don't have the wallet for sourcing collectible Mauser sporters...nor am selling books...:)

Speed's book is also a through history lesson from the German perspective about all things mauser and its offspring, if you desire to know. Was always interested by the Brit/German sporter collaborations. The chapter on post WWII American customs is a bit short, but you still run into them once in a while...not cheap...

Kuhnhausen's book is inexpensive and has a lot of good info for guys looking to build on mauser actions including a bunch of actions compared on one page.

Folks, I have 2 FN HVA's one a 30-06 the other a 270, the wing safety on the 06 is on the right and the 270 is on the left, anyone know the reason why? Thanks-Muddy

I'd suspect the one on the right is an aftermarket safety.

Pat, You are right!, the 06 is a Beuhler. (boy do I feel dumb!) Thanks-Muddy

Don't...!

DF

They do kinda go with the pipe. Of course, you need a red Filson coat, Bean boots, and one of those caps with the earflaps that tie at the top to go with 'em.

I've always been partial to the 14s and 141s, but never took the plunge. Not likely to at this point, but I like to look. There's a .25 Remington carbine for sale at a store nearby that is very cool, but at $1200, it's way out of the "just because" category.

Probably one has the original safety, and one has a Buehler.

oops...didn't read above...

RJY66, I'm not a writer, but your Browning Safari is as much an Mauser as any of those made by other plants and in other countries under the Nazi occupation. They overran Belgium early and used FN to feed their war effort. After WWII, production switched to sporting arms. FN had a long history of association with Browning and that continued after the war. There were some refinements of the safety and bolt release and the stripper clip thumb cutout was delegated, and perhaps a few other changes. The basic design is pure Mauser made in a plant that produced Military weapons for Germany. It is a refinement of the rifles that are the topic of discussion here.

Jack

What a great thread with lots of good information on a topic that is near and dear to me. My first rifle was a Husqvarna FN in 30-06 that I later paid to have restocked. Sure wish I could have that one back but such is life.

My evil landlord has 2 HVA's in 30-06. Near virgins...the cast off stock in icky birch. Got them cheap from our Vo-Ag shop teacher.

When did they get away from stepped barrels? The one I have has one step in the barrel, like some of the old military practice, that ends near the barrel sight. Most of the later ones seem to have more normal tapered sporter barrels.

Unfortunately, RinB is right about these. Please PM me if you have one of these dangerous rifles. I will send you an FFL and you can send me the rifle. I promise to only turn these Higgins rifles into low intensity shooters chambered for things like .300 Weath, .375 HH, .458 win, etc. I will even pay a small fee for the right rifle.

Thank you and I'm happy to help!

If Desert Mule Deer doesn't want your rifles I will take them. Because In his book Bolt Action Rifles, Frank de Haas was scathing in his report of the FN actions

" FN actions are made to the usual exacting FN quality, a quality so outstanding that no one should question it. I don't know what steel is used in the receiver and bolts of these actions, but you can be sure that the best available steel is used and that the parts are properly hardened. --Every FN action is subject to a proof test in the Belgian government proof house"

I have even converted these to mundane cartridge like .270 win and .30-06 despite the reputation. On a negative note and Contrary to the results of others, i have had poor luck with factory barrels on both Higgins and original FNs over about 15-20 rifles. Thinking of getting two beautiful early FNs that my dad stocked re-bored for that reason.

I actually found an uncut original stock for mine Needs refinishing, but so does the metal

Edit to add - My barrel says "chrome vanadium steel" which in Europe would have probably been 51CrV4 - equal to AISI-6150. That material is commonly used for springs and other highly stressed components, hardened in the high Rockwell C40's. Heat treated properly, it still quite tough and will yield before it fractures, which is what you want in a rifle action.

I'd be curious how/why someone was calling them "too hard" - or if indeed the action was the same material & hardness.

.375 H&H on a Higgins that goes 6.5 pounds plus scope and mounts. 500 rounds or so of full power loads in this configuration and no lug setback yet, but has eaten 3-4 scopes. Currently has a 2.5x fixed Leupold (not pictured) and goes 7.5 pounds or a little less with mount and scope.

DMD, Does that comb have that much "downslope" toward the front as it looks? The reason I ask is that I made one for a 98 9x57 that does and I like it!-Muddy

.30-06 Higgins that is identical to the above .375 in every way, including weight and balance.

Originally this rifle had one of those fowling, 2.5 MOA Higgins barrels on a worn and lightly pitted rifle I picked up here on the fire so sent it off to the gunsmith to replicate the .375. This one's going to Africa in a couple of months, but only shoots 180 Partitions into an inch or so and only at 2700 FPS so considering that plus the overly hard action, it probably wont work well.

I think it is the poor picture I took. Both the .375 and the .30-06 have Bansner High Tech stocks, which are fairly straight.

I said, "some" meaning a few, not all, or most. As an aside, just how does one fire a proof load in an action? In a barreled action, yes. In an action, humm.

Here is a 4 digit SN in 270 that is really growing on me and I am a old time pre 64 mod 70 lover.

I know squat about proof marks ,any help will be thanked.

very best winpoor

That is a very nice package you have there, stating the obvious. Had a Bansner stock on a 35 whelen (FN action) that really soaked up the recoil. Same stock is part of the plan for the current FN 06 I have.

Very much appreciate the Bansner on mausers here...though I understand that stocking a classic action with a synthetic is an unpardonable sin in the eyes of the righteous...

Nice.

Have come across a number of FN Mausers with the claw mount base dovetail cut directly into the receiver ring. Often wondered about the wisdom of mounting a scope base that way since, at minimum, it reduces the rigidity of the the action and at worse,reduces the strength of the receiver ring. The soldered on saddle to reinforce the dovetail cut makes a lot more sense, integrity wise.

Only claw mount I have left. Apparently a postwar rifle. Very nice quality with a Nickel scope.

Another back porch pig;



It's a 30/06

Saddle on the barrel. Even better.

Yes I like this rifle! I just don't use it enough! Usually grab another as this one I forget about as it's in the back of the safe.

I guess I don't care what the "Righteous" say about these stocks. I have more rifles than I have time to hunt with, but these custom FNs are about as good as it gets for me in hunting rifles. I had the .375 built about 10 years ago and loved it. I'd been meaning to build another in .30-06 and finally had it done this year. Also, wrapping up a third, near identical rifle in .30-06 improved (aka .270'WCF). I've got a couple hundred loaded .375s with 270 TSXs, 500 rounds of unfired .30-06 brass plus 10-15 pounds H4350 and 1000 180 Partitions from SPS, and several hundred unfired .270 brass and a bunch of 130 Hornadys and 4831. All I need to do now is spend more time hunting.

All of mine have what I believe are Belgium Proof marks so FN must have found a solution to that problem.

yeah, do like the 06AI in mauser and Bansner. 7.5# all up --just right.
On a 1959ish FN (Browning)"small ring" which has a slightly shorter front ring and may be a throwback to an older mauser product--but haven't got around to looking it up...yet

9.3mm-06 candidate.

That's so close to the 9.3x62, I'd do the std. round rather than a wildcat...

DF

Me too.

But KW needs a wildcat....

No I don't!!!! Heck I don't even have time to shoot all the ones I have!!! Let alone load!!! LOL!!

Me thinks you just giving KW a hard time...

DF

All this foolish talk about Mausers is going to have me hitting the shops soon looking for more of them.

Yeah, all this kinda talk just set us Loonies off...

Infectious sorta, don't you know...

DF

It's been an awful long dry run at the shop! Nothing good coming in. Well in my terms.

Ever shop the Temple/Ft Hood area for guns KW?

No. I'm spoiled. Just watch the shop. I do not even attend the gun shows. Something comes in I like and can afford then I will work out a deal. I'm in no hurry.

Pretty much a hermit when I'm not at work. Hate driving around here anymore than I have to.

I avtw of the erly s, one in 0-06 and one in.20. Nce well ad rifle. I u the -06 for cast bllets

What he said, what did he say? Did some online shopping and found a few candidates. Oh lord give me the strength to finish one project before starting another.. Dr appt might take care of my mad money account today.

I studied Nebraskan dropped diphthong languages in college so I can translate.

"I have two of the early ones. One in .30-06 and one in .270. Nice, well-made rifles. I use the .30-06 for cast bullets."

Hint: Keep health care and mad money in different accounts.

One last question from me. On my 2 FN HVA's, one has a round polished bolt knob, the other has the bottom ground off flat and checkered (like my actual FN Mauser does) anyone know why? Thanks-Muddy

FN used some checkered flat bottomed bolts on Browning & FN mauser 98s early in production--Eastman's book.

This was such a good thread I couldn't let it die, so today I picked up a .270 built on a 1948 FN barreled action with a "Chrome Vanadium Steel" barrel, a vintage Weaver scope in Bueller mounts, and, unfortunately, a left-handed Monte Carlo stock. The stock will either be replaced or the cheekpiece rasped off.

I don't know yet if it's a C or an H, but I decided to take my chances.

NOW I can quit buying rifles!

LOL! Now that's one of the funniest things I've read here in a while!

Pappy.......my 1948 .30/06 has a C ring......all my later FN Mausers have the H..

I will take no guff, Sir, from a man that plays with Model 8s!

A man's got to a a few delusions about himself.

This one has a low serial number, below 2500, so I should be "safe"!

Tag

It's threads like this that I really enjoy. So much quality information for those of us that don't know squat about Mauser actions.
Much appreciated.