If I remember this stuff with any kind of accuracy, Les Bowman lived in Wyoming. Apparently, he was a top quality guide and rifleman and JOC seemed to put a lot of stock in him. I don't recall ever seeing any writing with his (Bowman's) name on it which is perhaps unfortunate.
He seemed to be a very interesting person. Anybody here have any first hand stories or other biographical info on him?
Royce
Pretty good article by Simpson on Les Bowman and the 7 Rem Mag.
There is also the 1986 American Rifle article by Aggard and Bowmen on the origins of the cartridge and how it came to be. One of the few cartridges that got hands on field testing before it was introduced.
Hope I did the link correctly.
http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/remingtons-big-seven/
Bowman wrote some articles that were published over the years, but not a lot. Two I recalled immediately appeared in P.O. Ackley's Handbook for Reloaders and Shooters, where an essay from Bowman (perhaps a long letter written to Ackley) appears in the chapter on "Killing Power." Another on the origins of the 7mm Remington Magnum appeared in American Hunter as half of a 2-part special, the other half written by Finn Aagaard.
Bowman started out in the aircraft industry and apparently did quite well, selling his Texas business in 1949 and moving to Wyoming where he became a hunting outfitter. He was a rifle loony with enough money to play around with many rifles, and became well-known in the industry thanks to writing some and guiding hunters such as Jack O'Connor and various manufacturers, such a Fred Huntington of RCBS, and some of the higher-ups in Remington, including Mike Walker. He also knew a hell of a lot about what worked on North American big game, due to both his own extensive experience and guiding so many hunters. Apparently his outfitting operation was eventually quite extensive.
He was actually a pretty good writer, but didn't need the money so only wrote occasionally. I seem to remember a few of his other articles appearing in Gun Digest (and maybe Handloader's Digest) over the years.
I recall one or two articles for Handloader/Rifle magazine as well that he wrote. He seemed to be a very practical and knowledgeable guy.
He also guided people like Warren Page, and Abdorezha Pahlavi, brother of the Shah of Iran in his outfitting days. Elk Heaven was a popular place I guess.
I seem to remember an article of Bowman's that appeared in Gun Digest, sometime in the '90s (I think) about the failure of the Colt-Sharps rifle back in the early '70s, recounting his own involvement in that project. I know I've read other articles penned by Bowman, but none come to mind.
Funny....I had forgotten his involvement in the Sharps rifle. I saw one of those today. Very unusual rifle to find out there.
I have a hardcover called "Gun Talk" which has an article he wrote called "Western Rifles". Good Writer, great Article. As JOC said about him "His stuff just makes sense"
Les Bowman and his wife Martie were both barnstorming pilots in the 1920s. I think she also competed in airplane races. Their daughter "Larnie" flew with them, and I think performed some wing-walking stunts. I know that she was one of the younger licensed pilots ever at age 12. Some legislators got nervous about a pre-teen flying around over their heads, with the result that minimal age of licensing was raised to 16.
Les died in 1987 and Martie in 1985. A dozen years ago Larnie started to sell off some of her parents effects on eBay. Her children were not interested in shooting and hunting. I snagged two books by Jack O'Connor that had belonged to Les. They were gifts to him from O'Connor, autographed to his old friend Les Bowman. The books were sent with some clipped articles written by Bowman and about him too.
Larnie died in 2012. For a number of years Larnie and her children maintained a web site about Les and Martie's flying career. The link I had for that site has gone dead.
Google found a link to an aviation page about the Bowmans:
http://dmairfield.com/people/bowman_le/index.html--Bob
I have a really good article written by Les Bowman about the 7x57 mauser. Its what convinced me to by one.I need to look for it; its in the garage I hope! Seems like it was in one of Peterson's Hunting Semi-annual hunting "special" edition issues.
"In the garage" means magazine article, NOT rifle. Whew!
Pretty good article by Simpson on Les Bowman and the 7 Rem Mag.
There is also the 1986 American Rifle article by Aggard and Bowmen on the origins of the cartridge and how it came to be. One of the few cartridges that got hands on field testing before it was introduced.
Hope I did the link correctly.
http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/remingtons-big-seven/Cool article. Thanks for putting it up Bob.
Les Bowman and his wife Martie were both barnstorming pilots in the 1920s. I think she also competed in airplane races. Their daughter "Larnie" flew with them, and I think performed some wing-walking stunts. I know that she was one of the younger licensed pilots ever at age 12. Some legislators got nervous about a pre-teen flying around over their heads, with the result that minimal age of licensing was raised to 16.
Les died in 1987 and Martie in 1985. A dozen years ago Larnie started to sell off some of her parents effects on eBay. Her children were not interested in shooting and hunting. I snagged two books by Jack O'Connor that had belonged to Les. They were gifts to him from O'Connor, autographed to his old friend Les Bowman. The books were sent with some clipped articles written by Bowman and about him too.
Larnie died in 2012. For a number of years Larnie and her children maintained a web site about Les and Martie's flying career. The link I had for that site has gone dead.
Google found a link to an aviation page about the Bowmans:
http://dmairfield.com/people/bowman_le/index.html--Bob
Interesting stuff. Thanks for posting it.
A very good friend of mine lives in Cody and guided for Bowman quite a bunch of years ago. Les gave him a 700 in 7mm mag that has accounted for numerous elk. A few years ago, my friend's son insisted that he take the old outdated 4x Weaver off and replace it with a modern day "wonder scope." Jerry, my amigo, brought the outfit to me to do the job and our friend Ten Sleep loaded some ammo for Jerry. I changed scopes and rings, cleaned the rifle up a little and headed for the range. Got it sighted in easy enough so then got all settled in the bags and shot a three shot group at a hundred yards that measured quite a bit under a half inch. Everybody was happy but I think Jerry would just as soon have stayed with the old Weaver.
Steelhead put up the post about Randy Selby, an accuracy smith that is just as good as anyone can be. He has done some work for me and some of my friends. Always done right.
My wife and I met Les in 1968 on our honeymoon trip. He was living in Cody at the time. Pretty modest little place. I had been working for Gun Sport magazine, just before getting married, and told him to get his money up front for any articles to the magazine, as the owner not big on paying people. He'd written a number of articles for Gun Sport and had a pretty big tab owed to him. Real nice down to earth person, as was Elmer Keith who we also met. J O'C invited me to see his gun collection, which was something else. Had some of his trophies in his garage, which had a high ceiling and had been boxed in to be another room. I got busy trying to make a career and never got to go out and hunt with Les' outfit, though do believe it would have been the one to go with at the time.
There must be an elk outfitter that is hunting Bowman's old area, any idea who it could be?
Lots of guides operating in the thorofare..
hidden creek outfitter,pacific creek outfitters,Tefran outfitters, are a few off the top of my head.
Pretty sure a member here that goes by Ravennr (or close to that) guides there too.
When it comes to that area,Wyoming can get bent as far as i'm concerned..stupid ass NR wilderness law.
A few corrections to some statements made about Les and Martie Bowman They moved to New Mexico and then to Wa State where Les continued to test and shoot and write. Larnie, Les and Martie lived together until they all passed. The two granddaughter helped their Mom with selling many of the guns and artifacts after they kept many things they wanted for their children as they were taught to value these things but there was so much and Larnie wanted to share with collectors that might be interested in owning some of the items. It was not a matter of not being interested as many of the items have been passed on to his 4 great grandchildren such as guns, magazine articles, hundreds of photos and many other items. They decorate the homes of his two granddaughters and great grandchildren. And his oldest great grandson just recently used his Remington Presentation rifle to hunt for elk. His two granddaughters learned to shoot as soon as they could walk.
Larnie did wing walk at age 8 and does hold the record for youngest soloist at age 12. Long before pilots were licensed. They do have an exhibit which is rotated at the Smithsonian.
Les was well known in the gun world and was close with many of the names in that world in the 50's to 80's
and the modest place in Cody was where they lived until the place in New Mexico was purchased and finished by their daughter. Some of the heads and trophies were sold but some our in the homes of grandchildren and great grandchildren.
If you need any more information I will be glad to answer emails.
Jacie Strout daughter of Larnie and granddaughter of Les and Martie.
That is the same web page that I wrote for my Mother and grandparents. The airfield ask to repost it after I discontinued my web site. Called "The Flying Bowmans" Also there are many articles in several publications written by Les with his byline. Some I even did the photography. We have many that are packed away.
Jacie thanks so much for the information. I wish you would write a biography about your interesting family. Many fans of both hunting and aeronautics would be interested.
Jacie,
Thank you so much for providing that interesting information. Your grandfather's writing was always of interest to me as a young man growing up.
Best wishes to you and your family.
I seem to remember articles by Bowman about Remington XP-100 and a sling that went around the neck/shoulders of his design, don't remember the chambering but I do remember the unique sling.
I think Bowman helped design the Ruger M77 rifle stock, per an old issue in Rifle magazine.
That was Len Brownell.
I think Bowman helped design the Ruger M77 rifle stock, per an old issue in Rifle magazine.
I think Lenard Brownell was the one Bill Ruger hired and moved to New Hampshire to over see the M-77 and #1 projects. Not sure what part Les Bowman played, but he could have had input. Those guys all knew each other.
DF
You're right, sorry. My grown children are correcting more and more, too! Seems I remember the new Ruger #1 on the cover of the first Rifle magazine and the associated story about it's development. However, I could be wrong! Art
You're right, sorry. My grown children are correcting more and more, too! Art
Don’t feel like the Lone Ranger, Art.
I feel yo pain. BTDT, have grown kids, too.
DF
It would be nice if someone wrote it but it won't be me. At 75 I don't have the energy. Everything is in boxes and waiting for someone to tackle it. My oldest son was going to but life got in the way. If's been suggested by more than one person.
Take care
It would be nice if someone wrote it but it won't be me. At 75 I don't not have the energy. Everything is in boxes and waiting for someone to tackle it. My oldest son was going to but life got in the way. If's been suggested by more than one person.
Take care
I hear ya.
It's such an important piece of history, someone needs to write it.
DF
Yes unless someone steps up to the task then much will be lost. It is unfortunate that only the oldsters appreciate the history and nostalgia. Hard to motivate someone younger when they have no ideal of what has transpired before them.
It would be nice if someone wrote it but it won't be me. At 75 I don't have the energy. Everything is in boxes and waiting for someone to tackle it. My oldest son was going to but life got in the way. If's been suggested by more than one person.
Take care
That's unfortunate, but thanks for the updates.
Hope the torch gets picked up.
You're right, sorry. My grown children are correcting more and more, too! Seems I remember the new Ruger #1 on the cover of the first Rifle magazine and the associated story about it's development. However, I could be wrong! Art
Yup, you're wrong.
It was the Ruger M77.
I know because I dug up my copy and looked.
Paul B.
Thanks to all for jogging my memories. Hidden away I have an old correspondence file of letters back and forth with Les. The letters date from roughly 1967 to 1978, from the LB Ranch in Wyoming to Ocate, NM. Included in the file is a brochure for the LB Ranch, "Big Game Hunting at Its Best", that includes pictures of men we'd all like to meet. Bill Ruger, Al Biesen, Jack O'Connor, Fred Huntington, Colonel Townsend Whelen, and the list goes on. The last page concludes with "The roster of names of those who visit and hunt with us here at the LB--Ranch reads like a who's who of U.S. hunters, gunmen, and writers ….."
The letters (both ways) are obviously written with a cloth-ribbon typewriter. My copies are carbons on "onion skin". Typing must have been easier for him; one letter is typed (double-spaced but narrow margins) on both sides of three sheets of legal size paper.
Most of the correspondence relates to chronographs and load development. If he quoted a velocity it had been measured, and he already knew the trick of using multiple chronographs on each shot. One photo shows his pistol test range with the chronograph using a 10' screen spacing and terminating in a couple of large stumps.
Man, what an era.
Don’t think we’ll again see the equal of that.
DF
It would be nice if someone wrote it but it won't be me. At 75 I don't have the energy. Everything is in boxes and waiting for someone to tackle it. My oldest son was going to but life got in the way. If's been suggested by more than one person.
Take care
Calling on Mule Deer
I might be interested, partly due to (supposedly) "semi-retiring" recently. But I'm about a third of the way through the writing for GUN GACK 3, which will take up all my book-writing time for at least another year or more.
Also, one of the unfortunate aspects of such a project, despite its obvious worth, is that it might not sell very well, despite the fact that the right firearms books still very well these days--despite what some people post on the Internet. In fact, printed books have made a resurgence in the past several years. But the shooters and hunters who knew Les Bowman's name are either gone, or getting pretty old, the reason "historical" rifle books don't sell very well these days.
That said, it might do okay, thanks to Ken Oehler's additional historical information. But it might have to be a pretty expensive "limited edition."
......
In fact, printed books have made a resurgence in the past several years. But the shooters and hunters who knew Les Bowman's name are either gone, or getting pretty old, the reason "historical" rifle books don't sell very well these days.
That said, it might do okay, thanks to Ken Oehler's additional historical information. But it might have to be a pretty expensive "limited edition."
1st, yes I’m 69 and gaining so I remember reading Mr Les and more about him than he actually wrote. ***[edit: that what was printed that he wrote]***....... When I first saw this thread recently, I thot, hum that’s a familiar name.
2nd, Thanks to ALL who contributed here, it stirred the ashes of my memory.
I have books and ‘more’ magazine articles with Mr. Les incorporated.
Fond Memories !!!!!!!
Jerry
Yeah, it's an older crowd who would even know who Les was, must less want to read about him.
But, it's the seniors that have the most money as a rule, especially compared to millennial and such.
So, not sure what the "expensive first edition" would need to bring, but think there could be a market.
Maybe with the right promo, i.e. pre-selling first edition issues may help determine if it's a go or no-go.
Just a thought.
DF
I corresponded with Les for years and can likely dig up his old letters. Like those from Finn Aagaard they tell a lot about the writing industry and editors of the day. He talked a lot about his flying career
And guns as well. After Les died I stopped by to look at the rifles he had left for sale and looked at and probably should have purchased the Sharps/ Borchart
I always admired his experience and opinions
I dont know that I agree with you MD. I graduated high school in 2001 (to date myself) and Id love a book on Mr. Bowman. Id venture a guess that avid hunters and shooters in my age bracket read O'Connor, Page, etc more that you might imagine. The only one of the classic writers that may have lost a little shine with the younger guys is Keith. I say that because his writing was dated even when he was writing it. His claims against rounds like the 270, 06 etc have been proven false* and honestly the younger crowd doesn't care about wheel guns. He was also known to make some wildly outrageous claims. He was a damn fine writer though.
*I personally think his problems were in crappy bullets and an unwillingness to stay current with technology.
I digress...write the book and post it for sale! Retirement is for quitters
I corresponded with Les for years and can likely dig up his old letters. Like those from Finn Aagaard they tell a lot about the writing industry and editors of the day. He talked a lot about his flying career
And guns as well. After Les died I stopped by to look at the rifles he had left for sale and looked at and probably should have purchased the Sharps/ Borchart
I always admired his experience and opinions
It would be nice to have a clearing house of sorts to accumulate this data for preservation and hopefully, someday, a complete historical work. Dr. Ken seems to have a good supply of pertinent info. It would be a shame for this to pass into oblivion.
DF
I dont know that I agree with you MD. I graduated high school in 2001 (to date myself) and Id love a book on Mr. Bowman. Id venture a guess that avid hunters and shooters in my age bracket read O'Connor, Page, etc more that you might imagine. The only one of the classic writers that may have lost a little shine with the younger guys is Keith.
Quak I'm not so much arguing w/you as giving you a couple of things to consider along this line of 'younger' and 'older' hunters and shooters.
First I have had a M 70 6.5X55 (Swede) since Dec 2011. Of the guys in a large deer lease - then- ; plus my neighbors here since moving......
only
ONE guy knew what a 6.5X55 is. That's one out of about 60 guys !!!
Secondly,
today I invited a neighbor who is a friend and an avid hunter to come over while I 'chronographed' two rifles.
He came and we had an enjoyable visit and I graphed @ 18-20 rds thru 2 rifles.
He did not
KNOW what a chronograph was/is ! ! ! He is
63 y o.
He asked quite a few questions and I showed him the difference in some powders and some cases.
He did NOT
know who Ken Oehler was ! ! !
He would NOT know who Mr. L Bowman, Elmer Keith, JOC, JRS, or ANY other well known writers are.
I suspect M D is probably closer to right about the younger generation.
Just food for thot.
Jerry
May be a long shot for anything to materialize but it would be nice if the information, photos, etc. could be contributed to the JOC Museum or somehow to be archived for future reference. Or perhaps installments in some publication? Seems like there should be a Geezer Grant or endowment for such things. Where is Prince Pahlavi when you need him?
It would be nice to have a clearing house of sorts to accumulate this data for preservation and hopefully, someday, a complete historical work. Dr. Ken seems to have a good supply of pertinent info. It would be a shame for this to pass into oblivion.
DF
May be a long shot for anything to materialize but it would be nice if the information, photos, etc. could be contributed to the JOC Museum or somehow to be archived for future reference. Or perhaps installments in some publication? Seems like there should be a Geezer Grant or endowment for such things. Where is Prince Pahlavi when you need him?
I've long wished there was an organization with the funding and library skills to act as a repository for the notes, correspondence, unpublished works, reproduction rights, etc. of the gun writers.
When I think of Harvey Donaldson's heirs throwing the contents of his files out the window of his office above the garage and burning them I cringe!
How many one-printing books have become unobtanium. It might not be worth another publishing run or it might at least be worth scanning with volunteer labor and making a cyber-copy available.
For example, Rifle Accuracy Facts by Vaughn has some very interesting, unique, even ground-breaking experiments by a qualified engineer - but it is not to be found. (Or did someone accede to and then ditch all the rights to publications of Precision Shooting in their bankruptcy?)
We nearly lost the whole Shumway catalog of books until the family ddcided to re-capitalize the venture and get their plates refreshed.
Or how about scanned copies of the Gun Report cataloged and available for purchase?
We need a repository!
Ken Oehler. Your name is very familiar. Granddad kept all his correspondence and I'm sure I have seen copies of yours. All the names you mentioned I grew up with. Along with famous aviation names as they were a very tight group. They were in and out of our homes in Ft. Worth and Cody.
We had someone that had agreed to work on a book but at the time Mother was starting her trip into dementia and she would not let anything out of the house. It was a long hard journey for her and for us.
Now I agree with the gentleman that stated it might be too dated. I put the web page together for Mother mainly for my sister and I and our children and grandchildren when Mother was still healthy . We also have a few recordings of Martie (Grandmother) telling stories to my 2 boys about their flying days. The are something to hear.
Thanks for all the comments. It's nice to know he is remembered.
Jacie
May I call you Coop ?
I’m very Glad You are Here.
Jerry
A Follow Up !
I have very fond memories of past / present Gun Writers, Hunters etc.
I’d like to mention a few and there are SO many I couldn’t list them all but....
JOC, Al Biesen ( last year I had an opportunity to buy a M 70, 270 W stocked by. A. B. but at my age I didn’t feel I’d have enuff time to ENJOY it for the investment. ) ,
E Keith, altho I’m not a great fan, I appreciate his experience;
“SKEETER”
JORDAN
K. Howell
W Page
and “ the beat goes on “ .................
Memories Memories !
Jerry
You can but I may not answer! You may call me Jacie (Jackie) or Jake. My grandfather Les named me after my Dad so he called me Jackson.
Here's a photo you might find interesting. Les had 3 camps that he hunted out of up the Ishowooa trail. This photo shows the first leg to the first camp. Last camp was at Bridger Lake with one in between. Picture was taken either by Les or Jack Richards of Cody. Made many trips like this with my Granddad.
https://oi231.photobucket.com/albums/ee221/5azsisters/BOWMANS/packtrain.jpg
Jacie,
I 'm sending you a "private message" on all this, indicated my a flashing symbol above the forums. It involves publication possbilities.
That is the 3rd or 4th time it's been for sale since the Bowman's owned it. They bought it in 1948 as a 2 room cabin, barn and workshop. And it is no longer the LB-. That brand is owned by my sister and I as we are the only heirs It is a registered brand but they use the name because it is recognized.
Jacie,
I 'm sending you a "private message" on all this, indicated my a flashing symbol above the forums. It involves publication possbilities.
DING ! DING ! I like the sound of that. Hope something develops.
Jerry
At the risk (very small risk) of giving Mule Deer a big head, I cannot think of anyone better to tackle such a project. In part, my opinion is based on the detailed histories he provides in the chapters about different cartridges in the Gun Gack books. That and the fact that he is a good and polished writer.
For those of you that ask for more info on Les Bowman. Granddad traveled in 3 worlds. Gun people, hunters and pilots. here are some pictures that represent his world. A pack string on the way to the Bridger Camp, results of a hunt with lifelong friend and hunter at the LB-, Gen Jimmy Doolittle, at his gun range on the LB-, and with one of his planes in the late 30's or early 40's. Please do not copy or share or use the images without permission as they are all under copyright.
https://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee221/5azsisters/BOWMANS/LBandJD.jpghttps://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee221/5azsisters/BOWMANS/packtrain.jpghttps://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee221/5azsisters/BOWMANS/B2.jpghttps://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee221/5azsisters/BOWMANS/B3.jpg
Yes unless someone steps up to the task then much will be lost. It is unfortunate that only the oldsters appreciate the history and nostalgia. Hard to motivate someone younger when they have no ideal of what has transpired before them.
But, But isn't that what our education system is doing wiping out history to replace it with what they want it to be?? Just saying. Cheers NC
this post was not meant to be political. It was for information only. My children and their children know their family history because thankfully their parent's, grandparents and great grandparents got to know them and they are passing it down to their children. Please just enjoy the pictures and do not politicize my grandfather. He hated politicians but was well aware of everything going on around him. But it was NOT a favorite subject. He had his opinions and really didn't want to hear anyone's except family's And you DO NOT want to get me started on politics. So please just enjoy the pictures and your day!
I knew that name was familiar. I probably proof read some of his letters to you. He didn't ask that often for a proof reader but when he did you knew it was important.
You may but my nickname is Jacie (jackie) or Jake.
I talked to my oldest son last night and he said "Mom, don't send that stuff anywhere! I'm still planning on organizing it and I already have two people (videographer and Biographer) lined up to help but I have to get settled in this new career and then get up there to pick up all trunks."
So someday I'm sure it will get done because this is a very determined 55 year old who is very stubborn, and very reliable. And his great Granddad meant a lot to him. Fortunately Les lived long enought to see his two grandsons grow up.and got to teach them some valuable life lessons. I leave it in his and Gods hands.
Jacie
Thanks so much for posting, and for sharing the links to the pictures.
Honesty, I got goose bumps seeing them!
I am a relative youngster (born in 1957) but Les Bowman was a legend in my formative years and his name is still mentioned right in there with a lot of seriously accomplished hunters and gun-men.
Here's a link to Randy Selby's YouTube video in which he tells the story of the development of the 7mm Remington Magnum and his relationship with Les Bowman.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8S3wXF9XDs
Your welcome. I'm glad you enjoyed them.
Good stuff, enjoyed the video and photos.
This story needs to be fleshed out, put in a volume for future generations. Stories like that can fade away, this one doesn't need to.
Thanks for your efforts,
DF