.280 Rem pro's... con's... accuracy...? Any and all info will be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Great cartridge. Ballistic twin to the 270. If you're a Handloader, lots of bullet options. If you're not a Handloader, ammo is more limited.

Not a GW but it is one of my all-time favourite chamberings.

Ammo availability/selection can be limited. con

It is loaded to 60k Psi like the .30'06 , this is both a pro & con depending on how you look at it. And whether you Handload for it

It's unfortunate that the 7mm Express variant wasn't actually loaded up to .270 levels ( 65k Psi ), as this is the cartridge which the .280 is most often compared to.
The .280 cases are the same length (2.540"), with the 17.5 degree shoulder moved forward ~.050" to preclude accidental chambering and firing in a .270 chamber.

I've owned and shot several .280's over the years, and only had 1 that wouldn't consistently shoot sub-MOA

mailmanmark,

I've owned several .280's over the years, all nicely accurate. One of them was custom rifle by Dave Gentry that was my main big game rifles for a while in the 1990's, partly because it was also a lucky rifle. Killed a caribou and a mule deer with it that are still among my biggest of each species.

But I never could tell any difference between the way the .280 and the .270 in the field, whether in hitting or killing. Might even include the .30-06 in that comparison too. Now, the right 7mm bullets do have enough higher BC's than .270 bullets to drift less in the wind, but at "normal" hunting ranges (generally considered under 500 yards) there simply isn't any realistic difference, especially with some of the newer .270 bullets available today.

I finally got weary of trying to find .280 brass, especially during this last spate of panic-buying by shooters, so no longer own a .280. But many rifle loonies feel their life won't be complete without experiencing one.

M M -

Also not a G W but an OLD handloader.

A great cartridge w/more potential than factory ammo offers.
As has been stated, a 7mm twin to the 270 W for reloaders. Brass can be hard to find if you don't buy/use Rem. ammo.

If I had bought a 280 R in the 70s I might not have bought a 270.

Jerry

270 Win want-a-be

Always gonna be a place in my heart for one, though is presently none in my gun safe. If you like something just slightly different than a normal 270, without being an off the wall wildcat that will make your gun hard to sell, it certainly has a niche.
Versatile too, as I killed my first buck mule deer, buck whitetail, bull elk and buck antelope with one. I'll own one again.

Cant be said better.

I've owned several, including a nice a custom Mauser . Last one was maybe 10 years ago in a M70 Classic.I recently passed on a mint Rem 700 MR for reasons stated above.

Have killed with the cartridge using 140 gr Partitions and 140 Bitterroots,both of which started at about 3050 fps. About 5 years ago I watched two very nice mule deer killed with a 270 and a 280, both at 350-400 yards. No difference at all.If you've killed game with a 270,you've killed it with a 280

Great cartridge and what I'd use if I did not have a 270, but I'm not going to sell a 270 to get one; and don't see any sense in owning both.

Personally I think the 280 is crap, so much that I've been shooting this one since Rem thought 7mm Express might sell more guns..

I like the 280.I also like the 270.The only real difference used to be the 7MM size had a better bullet selection than the 270.Now the 270 probably has an equal amount of bullets for selection.What is also nice about a 280 is how easy it is turned into a 280AI.Up to and including 150 grain bullets I could stay with the 7 Rem.mag with my 280AIs.I do not know the reason.Maybe I overloaded them,but they never seemed to show signs of too much pressure.

mailmanmark,

It's difficult to find any 'cons' regarding the .280. I handload for mine, and have a lifetime supply of brass, so no worries there.

This target was with the first handloads I shot thru my custom pre'64 Win M70 and its new PacNor barrel. It's a little hard not to fall in love with a rifle that shoots with this kind of accuracy, with several bullet types and powder choices. Shortly after shooting this group, this rifle went to New Zealand, where I used it on Tahr, Chamois, and Red Stag with 140 gr. Accubond bullets, with great results.

My .280 is easily one of the two most accurate big game calibers I own, and I suspect many others have had the same results with theirs.

I've owned one since 1982. It is a Ruger M77 tang safety and seen alot of action. It is one of my all time favorite cartridges.

Loaded properly (62-65k psi), it does everything a 7mm should do. It can be built in a flyweight without kicking like a mule, shoots flat enough with reasonable big game bullets to be effective at ranges longer than most should shoot, and is generally pretty easy to load for. Re 22 is your friend. Add a 150/160 Partition and your done for the next 175 years.

I only have two what could be called serious full blown custom rifles. One was someone else's that I got at an estate sale. A very nice .35 Whelen that fit me like a glove. Price was right so I bought it.
The second was one I had built for me. A 1909 Argentine Mauser, 24" barrel, beautiful piece of walnut and very nice checkering. Cartridge? The .280 Remington. Still playing with the load work up for this one but I'm thinking a 150 gr. Nobler icebound at 3010 FPS should to a decent job. If not there's always the 150 gr. Partition. Note at Remington factory ammo does just a hair over 2800 FPS with the 150 gr. Core-loct in my rifle.
Paul B.

I thot I was fairly up to date ? ? reckon not! !

Who makes "Noblers"

"icebound" ? ...You going to the Arctic?


Jerry

















ps: I really think you did that on purpose but don't tell anyone.

Why not get the 7x64 Brenneke? 98 years old..

Northman -

Not being hateful but I can think of several reasons not to get the Brenneke.

Too many hurdles when they are unnecessary. (hurdles that don't have to be jumped.)

Pro's: way better than the .270. Accurate as you can be, plenty of bullets of you reload, a decent amount of you don't. It kills like Thor's hammer. .270 shooters will always try to be as cool as you but just never will.

Cons: you'll have jealous .270 owners try to run it down. You have jealous .270 owners always trying to buy it from you, you might not actually get to shoot a deer because they will tip over dead out of respect for your .280.

There's more horse hockey in the whole post than in my whole horse pasture.

RE read BobNH's post in this thread.


I like the 280 R (7mm Rem Express) and have NO animosity toward it nor its users. If I had a 280 I would not miss the 270; I do have some 270s and would be just as happy if they were 280s.
Jerry

What twist for 175gr bullets in the regular or AI?

1-9 will do it for most 175's, but if you want to use absolutely any 175-180 under any conditions, 1-8.

But all .270 and .280 users would actually be better off with a B-29.

Where have I seen the difference between the 270 and 280....?

I used the 270 way back when the Metallic silhouette game was getting off the ground. Shooting 150's at 90 lb. Rams at 500 meters on more than a few occasions I hit the ram and failed to knock it over. Many times one foot on the stand and one on the ground. I lost a few matches because of that.

With Paul Marquart scoring and spotting for me he offered to turn me a barrel in 7mm and chamber it in 280. His very first 7mm btw because 30 cal. was as low as he went. I took him up on it and started shooting Sierra 168's...problem solved.

Very interesting information.

Wonder how the .270 would work now with 150 Berger VLD's. Which 150 were you using back then?

My girlfriend soon to be wife bought my Mountain Rifle not too long after they came out. We had been to the big shop in Roanoke and I lusted badly after the 270. Meanwhile back home Charlie at the local shop had a 280 in stock and she bought it. That headed me toward the 280 but I would take a 270 just the same.

The biggest advantage I see in the 280 for normal hunting ranges is the availability of cheap 160 grain bullets.

I was shooting the Sierra 150 SBT. I would bet that the VLD would be a game changer. At least I think it probably would.

I've owned a few 280's over the years and now shoot a 270. I don't feel short changed.

God likely shoots a .280

It's a 270 for straight folk.

Nothing induces a coma faster than a 280 vs 270 conversation.

Nothing like getting into the weeds eh Bob?

I'll bet his was the Ackley version, knowing full well it was coming..

Yes, like 'O and Biden ! !

"Please Educate me on the 280 Rem." THREAD TITLE

INevitably............>>>>>

You really ought to reprint that article. Or update it: "The B-29 With Modern Powders," "Perfection Improved! B-29 AI!", "Revealed! Gaston Glock's Favorite Rifle: The B-29".

If you would stick it in a lever action and write it up, the Editor Emeritus at Wolfe could have an orgasm.

Good idea. Maybe Hornady can be persuaded to make a .29-caliber Flex-Tip!

Someone Alert Nosler !

Your B-29 would certainly be an ideal re-bore candidate for all those .270's suffering from the embarassment of a 10" twist!

No, I did not. really.

Paul B.

Yeah - STUFF happens!

Now for the record:


THAT is Paul's post !! I want you to get the credit not me!


If you hadn't told, no one would have known.

Jerry

Been thinking about Mule Deer's comments on the 9" vs 8" twist for a 7MM. I've been playing with the 150 gr. Accubond Long Range for a while and in two 7X57s and the .280, accuracy has been horrible. I have one more 7x57 to try and hope this one with turn the trick. It's an FN Mauser (J.C. Higgins M50) that has been rebarreled and restocked by my gunsmith. Very accurate with Winchester 140 gr. factory ammo but shows pressures from reloads that work just fine in the Ruger #1 and M70 FWT. I have to try and get the twist rate from that one as I have not done much with it because of the tendency to show pressures much quicker. Regular 150 gr. Partitions shoot just fine in all three rifle. Haven't tried them yet in the 150 but I'm betting they'll be OK.
Paul B.

I doubt the twist rate is the problem with the 150 ABLR. Even a 9.5 twist should work with those, and it's rare to find a 7mm with anything slower these days--though I did have a gunsmith (without telling me) rebarrel a 7x57 with a 1-11.5 twist barrel!

The Winchester M70 Featherweight in .280 is listed at 10" !?!
The various 7mm Rem Mags are listed at 9 1/2.

As I recall, my '92 Fwt Classic in .280 was a 10 incher.
Never tried 175's in it, but everything else I've tried shoots very well.

And Weatherby still uses a 1-10 in some of their 7mm Wby. Magnums. I had one for a while and it shot 175 Hornady Spire Points just fine, but that's not a particularly long 175, and I live at 4000 feet above sea level.

JB
That rifle sounded like something special. Kinda sorry to hear you let it go. It would have covered an aweful lot of needs in the lower 48.
John

If you just look at the cartridge itself, it's a superb hunting cartridge with an excellent balance of power to recoil. It should be good, it splits the difference between two other excellent hunting cartridges, the 270 and the 30-06. If I didn't own either and someone gave me a 280 I'd happily hunt with it.

If you look at the cartridge in the context of other available similar cartridges, it turns out there's not enough difference between the 270 and the 30-06 to really justify a third nearly identical cartridge. It exists only because Remington wanted a cartridge in this size with their name on it. It's never really caught on therefore few guns are chambered in it and ammo selection is limited, expensive and relatively hard to find.

It's primary appeal is to people who find the 270 and 30-06 too common and want to convince themselves that they're connoisseurs because they're shooting something else. No animal could ever tell the difference between a hit with a 270 and 280.

Taking the two cartridges in the same rifles, etc., loaded to the same pressures, using comparable BC bullets, I don't think you'd see the difference in the field with over a hundred pick-ups full of game. Make that three or four life times of very intense and successful hunting. Maybe never.

An argument could be made for more and better BC bullets in 7 mm in the past than in .277 but I don't know if that's true any more.

I think the Winchester M70 FWT and Ruger #1 are 10" as near as I can determine. I tried checking out the Mauser with the custom barrel and it too is 1 in 10. The ABLRs just don't want to group in them. I know the Mauser is good for .50" with selected handholds with the 140 gr. Ballistic Tip. The M70 run .75 on average with the same bullet. The #1 is anywhere from 1.0 to 1.25 depending on the load.
Paul B.

Agreed.

15ish years ago, I had a hankering for a KS in 270 and set out to find one.

The first KS I'd come across was a 280 at a decent price so I figured "close enough" and made it mine; ergo, the 280 is superior to the .270 because I have one.

No! No! My 270 can beat up your 280 !

Jerry

That's impossible: The .280 is bigger.

Remember, it's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog...

To be such a maligned round, that .270's gotta have an attitude...

DF

D F

Way to go. <G>

John,

Sorry I missed your post.

I have owned many rifles that were definitely st least above ordinary, if not something special. But have never been interested in owning only one, and while the 7mm Weatherby worked very well indeed, I had shot the mystery out of it.

Aside from heirlooms, only about a dozen centerfire rifles have stuck with me for over a decade. Exactly why is often a mystery even to me, as at least one I haven't taken into the field for over 16 years.

Somebody named O'Connor once noted that he'd eventually discovered all rifles only shot bullets. In my experience he was right, and the things that make one rifle more desirable than another go beyond shooting bullets. Still haven't pinned down exactly what that something is, but based on previous experience I won't quit trying for a while.

M D -

Your statement about things that make 1 rifle more desirable than another is spot on.

There is "something" about my 70 - 300 WM that I can't put my finger on BUT that rifle and I are 'matched' somehow ? No matter how I could describe it, IT just does something naturally that other rifles I have, do not and have not.

OTOH I don't have a single rifle I don't like. They are GONE.

I know I don't NEED a 300 for WT hunting but I like hunting that rifle, ??
There are several things I could say and describe about THAT rifle and yet not adequately answer what that 'something' is. ? ? ?

My 270 is called 'CUJO'...

The special way "it" settles into your hands and the mental images from past events associated with it? Those things impart a pleasing anthropomorphic quality to me--like a good, silent friend.

Didn't you mean 'WIFE' ? <G>

Yes, but aren't "silent" and "wife" incongruous terms when connected?

And I mean that in the best way.....really! No, really!

Never mind the the edit.

YES !

INcongruent Indeed!!

That's him...wonder what the 280 looked like?

Maybe like this?

Who...? ME!
I wouldn't do that. <G>

Or Maybe like this !


Well, maybe I would. <G>

Do yourself a favour and get one of the M70 Featherweights in .280 , it will complement your .300

http://www.winchesterguns.com/products/catalog/itemdetail.asp?id=535200227&mid=535200

"get one of the M70 Featherweights in .280"

Good luck with that. I ordered one last spring. Was promised August delivery. Now they are saying January.

Didn't know that.
Hang in there.
You'll be happy in the end.

I was once told by a very sage and savvy rifle guy that the .280 Remington/7mm Express was as close to the perfect CF rifle round as a mere mortal could get. The only possible improvement to be made was to neck it up to 30 caliber...

True Enough



Fixed that for y'all

338 -

Sorry, I was not ignoring you. When I read this I MIS read and did not realize your were talking to me.

I'm SURE I'd like that 70 FTWT in 280,.....
the problem is I'd like tooooo many different rifles, etc.
I'm already to the point I can't hunt all my rifles each deer season which is relatively long.

Since I already have 'light' weight rifles I can't justify adding another.

Thanks Anyway

Jerry

Despite my earlier comments, I don't dislike the .280, and in fact just purchased a stainless Douglas barrel already threaded for a 700 action and chambered for the .280 AI by my old friend, the late Mickey Coleman.

Had always meant to order a rifle from Mickey but never could quite decide on what, and then of course it was too late. But "Ebby" had this barrel and a long Remington 700 action for sale on the Classifieds at such a great piece I couldn't resist, and he shipped it quickly and well-protected.

Will probably make it a little spiffier than some of my homemade custom rifles by using a PT&G bolt, but haven't decided on a stock yet.

I did...and if Winchester would ever ship the GD thing, I'd give a report on it.

As Larry the Great always said.... you have to neck down the .30-06 to get the "suck" out of it.

Jerry : Sell something ! Order 2 and generate some demand !
They seem to be sluggish on the delivery of a SHOT Show special.

Seriously though, you raved about your M70 300 on a .280 thread, so I thought it was an appropriate suggestion.

I wish Win chambered the Sporter or the SuperGrade in .280 to match my .338s ergos.

My '92 Fwt Classic in .280 is a great shooter!

Trigger was tuned by a friend, and some initial reluctance to feed smoothly was "adjusted"

MD - Bravo! Please keep us advised

Articles on your Gentry custom were decisively inspirational for me.

I think that the .280 AI is the new .270

Cheers

The 280 remington never caught on. The case is not the same headspace as the 270 or 30-06 so that it can't be chambered in a 270 or made from them either.

You won't find ammo around.

It's lower pressure so it will work in the rem. auto.

What?? A .280 Rem. can't be chambered in a .270 Win.?

You learn something new every day. Thanks!!

Yep, he's always full of insider insights.

Maybe it's been said here already but a 280 is to a 7-08 what a 30-06 is to a 308

ldholton,

Dunno if it has been said on this thread or not, but it always bears repeating.

By the time .280 bullets get 50-75 yards downrange, their velocity is about like a 7-08's at the muzzle.

WOW ! M D - thnx so much, didn't know that. >

Imtoo lazy to do the math but the 06 308 thing ain't much different ? Personaly I'll thake the short action unless I NEED a lot more ummf than it will be a long fat case.

You're an idiot but continue on.

Damn just DAMN!

Great, ain't he?

He can condense the first few paragraphs of almost every article ever written about the .280 into a few sentences. Just amazing.

For hunting purposes, those 4 cartridges circle the sweet spot of useful power, trajectory, and reasonable recoil. Combined with modern powders and hunting bullets only enhances that reality.

Today is my eldest sons 8th birthday. When he gets ready for his first hunting rifle, I'll get him a 7mm-08 that we can reload for with my ample stockpile of 7mm Express bullets.

Must protect my inventory of precious .280 brass. ;(


Cheers

That's funny. I do it all the time.

It's actually one of the brighter things Don has posted in the past dozen years.

Well with him, the bar is low... Like a tripping hazard

I guess I don't understand the need to insult our fellow shooters.

My 30-06AI was just too much gun. Vaporized elk

Re-barreled to 280

PF76 : Curious about the steps & dies involved with that :

1 - Neck up .270 to .30
2 - Form a false shoulder .050 forward ie Neck down to 7mm
3 - fireform

Could you elaborate on that please? Thx

MD mentioned that .280 brass had become scarce,
and it may be a good alternative until supplies of .280 are available.

Cheers

Then STFU...............

SOUTHTEXAS --

I am making a 'friendly' observation.....

you'll learn to NOT take some posts & posters seriously.

Jerry

I just picked up some 280 Norma bulk brass to FF 280 AI. $105/100 at Midway. They run promos all the time. Add a cheap item with free shipping and shipping becomes very reasonable.

280 Norma brass

..or rattles the dog's cage.

I tried a 280 on a whim back in 2003. Best choice of cartridges I ever made. Then I upgraded to a 280 AI last year. Either one sparks my fancy and has totally negated any true need for anything more.

I have owned nearly 20 since then. I kept my original and continued to trade up until I got what I wanted. I now own a Wby Mk V UL in 280 Remington & a Borden/Kampfeld in 280 AI.

I find it hard to hunt with anything else.

Scott, you're nothing, if not consistent.

^^^^^^^^^^ He is that.

That's about it.

I'm envious !

ITAR regulations don't permit us Canucks to do that any more

Educate yourself then, read THIS.

I've had my share of "discussions" with Mr.99 over the years.

All funning aside, I agree with this. I actually think this and the availability of bullets superior to the .277 bullets at the time, is why I originally chose the .280 as my go-to.

Even O'Connor in his later years admitted the 280 was superior to the 270. With the 130-140gr bullets there's no difference but when you move up to the 150-160gr bullets the 280 is king. powdr

Funny thing. When Jim Carmichel took over O'Connor's job at Outdoor Life, he interviewed O'Connor and one of the questions asked was, "If you were restricted to one cartridge only to hunt all of North America, which would it be? According to the article, O'Connor instantly said, "The 30-06!"
Paul B.

I've hunted/killed with all three and seen them all in action in other hands plenty of times. If I were forced to go kill a Cape Buffalo or brown bear with any of them I'd grab a 30/06.

But nobody is going to force me to do that and my brown bears have been killed with a 375H&H.

On anything else we commonly hunt give me any of the three of them and I'm happy as a clam.

I think for the silhouette game the energy the bullet possesses is better used to knock down the target as opposed to using a portion in destroying itself. This would lead one to think of a mono-metal bullet but they a hard on the steel. An old fashion cup and core at moderate velocity seems to work well.