Other than marketing:



???

They're just rubbing the lotion on. Trying to get a reaction out of some.

They've found a way to make the bullet accelerate after leaving the barrel...IDK

Finally be able to keep their full bullet line in production?

That'd be nice.

Developed an App using doppler radar that can steer the bullet from the barrel to the intended target.

They finally figured out zombies are not real....

They are certainly up to something.

I phoned and discussed. They kept it under wraps and will release on the 27th of this month.

So sit on your hands or pick up the phone and call them.

But rest assured that I will follow through to the finality.

Bill

Sure am glad you are on top of it for us WET....


I couldn't sleep at night otherwise...


You phony, delusional P.O.S......

A kit for reloading .22 rimfire ammo?

Propellant that gives 10,000 fps at 45,000 psi?

Plasma rifle in the 40 watt range?

Factory B-29 ammo?




No offense to JB, but I'm kinda hoping for the plasma rifle...

Sounds like they have been working on filling government contracts that they have won.

As if the folks at Hornady are gonna tell you what's going on.

What ever the "New" might be Hornady has not not made any product or marketing mistakes the last 15 years.

I do hope they could just concentrate on shipping the products they already are supposed to manufacture.

Doc

Damn you're a special kind of stupid.

I didn't think that, given their hype on the date and obviously purposeful vagueness, they'd give away their secret.

I did hope that perhaps some GUNWRITER here (read: not know it all dipshits like you) might say, "bullet breakthrough" or "new cartridge".

Next time I have a question I'll PM you to have my question repeated back to me in 500x the necessary words.

Ha! Now THAT would be a BREAKTHROUGH!

A buddy of mine who knows Jason said they're discontinuing the 257cal/100 gr Interlock which seems weird since there is no corresponding SST to take its place. Now obviously this HUGE NEWS isn't specifically about that, but I wonder if they're announcing something that'll revamp their product line.

Like Speer did w/ the bonded full curl or whatever it was almost called after they got people enthused but before they decided not to make em...

Hornady products that interest me are in good supply locally.

That said - a single die for reloading (does it all) with 0 run out?

Originally I was thinking "The Hornady Rifle" but doubt it. While tight with Ruger - I really don't think the shooting industry is clamoring for a "semi-custom" in the 1500-3000 dollar range. That's an itch already scratched several times over.

Given the display of the doppler in the beginning - I also wonder if it's some sort of new chronograph or bullet shape that provides high BC at shorter lengths? Is that possible?

Got to admit, I'm curious now.

Terrible news! The 257, 100 grain Interlock is a superb bullet.

Use doppler radar to measure velocity and distance to better determine BC?

My thoughts exactly; caused me to go get a lifetime supply...

Guys: they are available again:

http://www.midwayusa.com/25-caliber-257/br?cid=21760

I'm waiting on the 120gr HP!

Yeah Yeah, Plasma rifle ,

Like they say up north "you betcha"!

It'd be easy to get reloads, I hear there's folks in the "desperate" sections of larger metro areas that "donate' that plasma stuff for cheap. A fella could just outbid the blood banks and get a lifetime supply for next to nothin' I bet! No more worry about component shortages. Probably could get it to work on plasma from other critters if one got into a SHTF scenario and the "donators" were too hard to get to. Maybe even get it set up to work on "Bug" plasma, there'll be lots of them around when the ships arrive.

Geno

WET Willy:

I called Hornady too!

Asked 'em what their policy is when senile old men call up asking about "secrets" up to and including loading die adjustment.

They said same as mushrooms - feed 'em schit and keep 'em in the dark!

Laffin'

Well, I guess the cat is out of the bag. I'll let you guess who developed this rifle. The maker's name was kept out of the video, but the sharp eyed among you will know who cobbled this together.

My apologies for the dark, grainy picture. It was shot with a phone.

It will be advertised as,

The first rifle that cooks as it kills.

Quiet. Accurate. Green.

You cannot miss! Just walk the beam onto the target.

That's enough. I'll let you argue amongst yourselves now.

shhhh, it's a secret for another week. But here's a hint.....










"Cermalube"


Geno

I'm assuming it will handle a moose sized critter as you folks up there will need one that can.

Probably could be used to sterilze the canning jars also?


Geno

They say they've solved a problem that they didn't know existed......

Can't be much of a problem.

Not loosing any sleep here.

I like some of their product. I'm sure in time we'll all know.

Makes for good BS at the Campfire.

I saw the engineers on tv hunting with the Best of the West crew down in NM. They were using a new bullet that they basically said performs well at all ranges. They did not expound on it much, or show it. They used it on antelope at several different ranges and it performed well, but then again, it was on antelope.

It think they have re-invented the Interbond.

Lame if that's the big breakthrough

I'm hoping for the commercial introduction of the 22-204.

And the commercial introduction of the 6 Creedmoor.

I called them up and they told me. New vampire bullet, silver tip.
Don't tell.

It's been an open secret for some time among those with covert government contacts that Hornady is developing a line of cermalube coated projectiles. Initial top secret testing shows a velocity of 5777 for the .30-06 guaranteed except for the times it reduces the velocity.

sadly they've discontinued a lot of good bullets... or at least a bunch of the ones I've always loved...

just in time for Halloween!!!

Yep. They discontinue good bullets and replace them with that SST crap that dynamites on a paper cup.

BINGO.

Fluted bullets....

Maybe designer bullets in a whole pallete of different colors, or McSwirly bullets for the discriminating rifleman...

Yes they have. Foremost is their refusal to produce Hornady ammunition for the 300 WSM.


I saw Steve Hornady on two different hunting shows recently where he was testing a prototype bullet. He was looking for one shot DRT's. It happened on the camera 4 for 4. But, that doesn't mean it will every time.

Tazer bullet. Picks up an electrical charge from the air molecules as it passes by them, then shocks the animal.

At least, that's my WAG.

What's old is new again. Steve's just trying to improve on Bullet Balm.

THIS IS AN UNPAID ADVERTISEMENT FOR BULLET BALM!

- transcript from the Satellite Hunting Network (SHN)

Bob and that Other Guy Go Grizz Hunting in BC

Bob: Geez, you've got him mad now, Bill. Time to get outta here! But, before we run for our lives, what bullet did you use? It looked like a good hit...

Bill: Same bullet as always, Bob - Knosler Killer Cores. Why?

Bob: Well, they're not going to live up to their reputation today. I'll bet your 458 would have done a better job if you treated your Knoslers with Bullet Balm.

Bill: Bullet Balm? What's that?

Bob: I'm surprised that a world traveled, big game hunter like you hasn't heard of it. It's the answer to every hunting situation...

Bill: How so?

Bob: Well, it uses the latest scientific developments in transmetallic layering and valence technology. Actually, it's the brainchild of Canada's research giant - Bio Sonic Technologies Inc. of Cold Lake, Alberta. Originally made for Canada's military, it's cutting edge! Each bullet is enhanced with frequency matched "Resonant Atmospheric Coatings" and the latest "Hyper Wave Progressive Ogive Technology". Finally, they're topped with a Transonic, Turbulence Buffering, T-Plated Meplat. That's T for titanium, Bill."

Bill: Wow, what a mouth full! It sounds complicated. But what does it mean and how does it work?

Bob: In a nutshell, you coat your bullets in Bullet Balm and the ingredients chemically bond with the bullet jacket for improved performance. It improves performance in three ways:

1. It changes the flow of air around the projectile. It does this by infusing a negative charge to the bullet which emits valance electrons when the bullet heats up in flight. Air friction causes the reaction to start and the electrons pulse omnidirectionally around the bullet's body. They bombard the immediate area (turbulence zone) and smooth both the forward direction and spin of the bullet. This keeps them on track more accurately to the target.

2. It reduces bullet deformation. Bullets are put under considerable stress when the powder begins to deflagrate. The quickly rising pressure and associated temperature increase will cause the bullet to become "out of round" and therefore less aerodynamic. Bullet Balm uses proven layering technology to put a barrier between the pressure and heat waves. The result - the bullet stays perfectly in shape with no deformation.

3. It fills in small nicks, gouges and weak spots on the jacket's surface which can ruin accuracy and bullet integrity. This is especially important on impact. Small defects in any bullet can cause them to come apart prematurely or not expand and function as designed. In effect, it creates a secondary shell for comprehensive jacket uniformity.

Bill: That's great news for every hunter, Bob. But what about factory bullets? Isn't Bullet Balm just for reloaders?

Bob: Heck no. Bullet Balm comes in a small twist top can and can be applied directly to a clean bullet. Even one that's already inserted into the case. Treated bullets have to sit for approximately five minutes, but that's no big deal. The bonus is that any excess balm stays soft and can easily be wiped away. The Balm is the bomb!

Bill: Well, I'm sold. Where can I get some?

Bob: Almost every gun shop is stocking Bullet Balm, but it will go fast. Run, don't walk to your nearest dealer!

Bill: And speaking of running, let's go! That grizz didn't get the Bullet Balm treatment!

THIS IS AN UNPAID ADVERTISEMENT FOR BULLET BALM!

I'm holding out for a Horny McFlame...

Just the name does great damage...

DF

See what happens when you retire? Brain gets mushy. Better rub some Bullet Balm into your scalp, pronto.

Bullet Balm has aloe vera in it. You'll find it's healthy for the skin.

I was one of the technical staff tasked with developing the bonding chemistry. The director never liked my jokes about using Elmer's School Glue...



Or my insistance at referring to the chemistry as mucilage...

I be willing to bet that 90% of the folks here on the 'fire that graduated high school after 1980 would not know what "mucilage" is and would be utterly lost if asked to use it in a sentence! (Oh, I think there might be about 3 that graduated so I figure a 66.666666 % chance of winning if even one could get it right!)


And the Bullet Balm, love it. If I had any people I'd have my people get together with your people. I'm a SJ SHarks fan and I know there's some investors over that way, techie types and such, that are not risk averse. Of course, some might shy away as Bullet Balm or anything Bullet related over there might be looked upon as politically incorrect.

Way cool that you managed to incorporate "deflagrate" into the story too. Couple of other big words in there too.

Geno

How's this Geno, I was BORN after 1980 and can tell you that mucilage was/is used by old fuddy-duddys as a dry fly/fly line flotant.

Or at least, when I worked in a fly shop, we sold a product labeled as "mucilin"

Dunno if it had anything to do with "mucilage"

Thank God there is someone else on here who is "young"

Close youngster, but no real cigar:

You're talking this stuff or similar, right:

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Mucilin/744641.uts

Steve and I mean this stuff:

http://www.thecakelady.ca/lepagesglue/mucilage.html

which is probably partly made of this:

from wikipedia (that infallable source of ALL internet knowledge)

"Mucilage is a thick, gluey substance produced by nearly all plants and some microorganisms. It is a polar glycoprotein and an exopolysaccharide. Mucilage in plants plays a role in the storage of water and food, seed germination, and thickening membranes. Cacti (and other succulents) and flax seeds especially are rich sources of mucilage"

If something is "mucilaginous" it is "snotty".

Ever seen a hagfish? If you ever do you'll get the idea!

nice try you young pup.

Geno

PS, you and J can get to bed now! It's past your bedtime

PPS, you may be partially right but I'd hate to admit it. The British "mucilins", not the silicone ones, probably had/have some mucilage in the formula from what I found out pokin' around.

I'm wondering if they are considering form function characteristics and changing the bullet shape accordingly to increase the BC considering the shift to G7.

Berger has been on the path for a little while. Changing the boattail from 9 to 7 degrees, updating the G7, and actually using fired data to check BC's published.

OR they could be dipping them in Bullet Balm I suppose.

Todays guess for me will be:

Liquid fueled projectile with onboard gyroscopic stabilization, micro camera linked to optic (company to remain anonymous today) with built in laser ranging/guidance capability and computer motion detection to decrease chance of game moving during flight. All blue toothed thru latest phone app that will take into effect magnetic fields, gravitational force, and coriolis effect, and whether or not the shooter is holding their mouth right.

Bullet Balm will only be applied to 7 degree boattails, 9's will get cermalube.

Geno

PS, forgot to mention, sensors on barrel to detect actual velocity of each round as it leaves barrel. No more using averages from dinosuar age chronographs. Backup will be optic's ability to gauge speed during flight. Shooter may not be able to see bullet, but optic will.


PPS, reference someone's earlier post regarding silver tip "vampire" bullets.... I don't know who is leaking you such misinformation. Silver tips are for werewolves. Special garlic/holy water based poly tips are for vampires.

They be bringing out a precision expanding boattail, plastic tipped non fouling monolithic alloy/lead mix bullet for high velocity rifles and long distance hunting similar to TTSX, e-tips, GMX that costs $12 per 100/ $100 per 1000.

They bought out Nosler's bullet line so that some will actually be produced.

Maybe they have updated their "zombie" ammunition to include a radioactive core for better mutation characteristics.

Anyone capable of marketing "zombie" related firearm goods is capable of unlimited stupidity.

I know we used glue in school called mucilage. Was elmers, clear bottle, with a rubber tip, like a chisel point. push down and the slot opened up.

Didn't taste nearly as good as plain old elmers or the paste that had kind of a minty wintergreen flavor.

According to Steelhead, Boxer, 4ager and jorge1, lead paint chips tasted MUCH BETTER than mucilage.

What my Hornady contact indicated the new product would be was a Long Range "Salt Treated" bullet for use by Campfire members only on those Extra Long Range Shots.
This will help so the critter will not spoil by the time they can walk up to it.

WTF are you spewing?

More serious guess here...

They're bringing out a whole new line of non-toxic bullets and ammo to stay ahead of coming State and Federal regulations. They'll be "state of the art" in material and design.


Just a guess.

Just got off the phone with Jason and Steve, we were pretty close growing up. Kinda like next door neighbors (I'm from Kansas, them Neb). Hell we even shared different mothers and attended different schools together.
Anywho they told me on the down low that they had been watching this site and seeing all the traction the 7mm Mashburn has gained, they have decided to commercialize the cartridge


Like they said, they solved a problem they didnt even know existed

I heard from a very well VETTED squirrel that not only the 7mm Masher, but a whole line derived from that cartridge starting with it necked up to 9.3mm, 'cause they know how popular that caliber is around here too. (but shhhhh, only 4 more days to go)

Geno

PS, word is it's also coming out in an AI'd version. For AR's.

PPS, don't worry you long range 6.5 lovers, it's third on the list, coming out just in time for Christmas gift giving.

Dear Hornady,

Some of us long range shooters are older and suffer from hypertension. Will you be releasing a reduced sodium version of your Long Range "Salt Treated" bullet for our use also?

Thanks,
The old guys,

Bugger me!!!!! That's my favourite bullet in both the .250 Savage and .257 Roberts. Why would they cut that bullet from their line-up???????

Damn, you….da….man! I never knew anyone who tried eating mucilage. (The paste in the jar, OTOH, was actually quite tasty. Gotta admit, though, I don't much care for wintergreen anymore; perhaps I ODed? Then again, maybe if me and Stan ran across Maydell again, we might try to impress her again. )

OK, that made me laugh quite hard!

So, Maydell went for glue eaters, eh?

Sounds like my kinda girl!

Geno

You're close.

Horny McFlame...... I think I went to school with that dude!

Completely Hollow copper jacketed 150 grain 308 bullet with bc over 1.0 and a helium filled fmj version that rises above the line of sight and never returns.

They are shipped in 10 rd boxes to keep the box from floating away.

With that I could shoot bug holes at a 1000 all day long with my 30-30.

A rare funny joke. So rare.

W.E. Tibbe has purchased the company, and takes over on that date.

....lucky us.

GTC

Would you care to comment about the flavor of Blackheart's dick ?

You seem more than well qualified.

GTC

You must have been from a rich family to have Elmer's. We had Lepage's, which despite the name, ain't from France.

We boiled our own cow hooves and added chicken [bleep] for a binder.

I think it's going to a sleepless night for many...too full of anticipation...hopefully they'll announce it first thing in the morning so that some of us can get some relief!!!

I don't normally bite my nails,...but have a couple of the cleaner fingers chewed off back to the first joint.The greasy and nasty tasting ones are going quick.

This suspense could kill one.

GTC

I was thinking... maybe it is something to celebrate or commemorate today being Hillary's birthday...

Well, here it is:

So, an A-Max with an IL ring and a non-melting tip. Curiously, the 7mm 162AM has a better BC than the 162ELD-X. I think I'll stick with the AM...

Setting aside the idea of a melting tip (they are smarter than I am so I'll reserve judgment on that) - what they've done is provide a product with an out for those people who say "Why use a match/paper punching bullet on game? It's unethical!!!" - regardless of actual performance of the AMAX on critters - there were a lot of people who wouldn't use it because it's not labeled a "hunting bullet".

Notice the focus on the tips of the OTM types - the irregularities - that's a marketing deal. Does it really matter? I don't know - I don't shoot that long, I don't shoot bergers, I don't own a Doppler. I do know that they don't look as nice and immediate thought would be - they can NOT be as consistent in the air as something with a tip like the Hornady offering. Does that really matter? Dunno - people kill big things at long ranges with OTM types and Bergers. It works obviously but we don't really know if there's an issue because I'm not shooting them myself.

At the end - Hornady has a new bullet, it's going to compete in the minds of those purchasers who say "you can't shoot match bullets at deer - need hunting bullets, but I also want to shoot long range so I get Berger Hunting VLDs"

IMO - that's what these are aimed at (pun there).

Regardless of if the heat resistant tip is BS or truth - I sincerely doubt that Hornady has introduced a bullet that is garbage front to back.

I like and use Hornady products - admit it. The Amax's I have all measured exactly the diameter they are supposed to with 2 different set of verniers. Doesn't mean much I suppose - really but they are consistent, box to box - bullet to bullet. IME

Agreed on all counts. Only thing is- they already have the SST for the long range/won't use match bullets on game, kinda guys.

And I agree that the OTM design doesn't seem to prevent people from winning matches due to tip irregularities...

I honestly can't believe any amount of resource is being spent on developing new schit by any component related company.

But they're obviously good at earning money so they must know what I don't.



Travis

I don't know of anyone who prefers the SST and when someone mentions them to me - I think "Hornady's Ballistic Tip" more than "match bullet for meat". With the SST being .075 less in BC too - I don't know if people are substituting the SST for the AMAX their conscience won't let them buy.

Dunno how true the tip issue is or if there really is a problem with non uniform metplats and tip melting - is the problem caused measurable on targets and not only on a doppler. Kinda like watching a dial indicator bounce around - it's showing a massive swing on the dial but reality is that's 2 ten thousands of an inch.

Many good points made. The proof is in the pudding...and I'll wait to hear from others about how their pudding "concoctions".

BTW, they appearantly tested several makes of tipped bullets:
Tech Details from Hornady

I guess I'll keep shooting Scenars because there's nothing to melt.




Travis

Yep, looks like they fixed a problem that didn't exist.

"Changing Everything" would be comparable to inventing a flying car. These bullets are more like the invention of the heated steering wheel.

As bellydeep just mentioned, an answer to a question that didn't exist.

Let's assume they are correct

Then a 168 grain 308 @ 2700 fps can be used on a hog shoulder at 20 yards .

AND it will expand on a pronghorn at 550 yards (and have the accuracy for the shot)

If that bears out-- big "if"--It really is huge.

BMT

So knowing that the current tip material that they are using is a nonconformance , are they going to change the tip material, or is Hornady going to continue using tips that melt in other products?

The Hornady tests in that document are interesting. The .30 cal 200 grain LRX at 800 yards doesn't look that great.

They're naming names and making "accusations" for the lack of a better term. Not in a malicious way but definitely saying X is doing Y and I'm sure their lawyers were involved in it. So that would lead me to believe that their math and claims have to be rather right as far as they know - lest they be sued.

Remington had a bullet with a non-melting tip 50 or 60 years ago.


Mike

There's a video in the longrange hunting section that explains it.

I too noted how they politely listed some names and politely said "we have a better way of looking at it". I still think it will be interesting if others will say what they are saying... down the road.

They seem to be saying we've tested this and are confident in our findings...and you can bet others will test it...especially Mr. Litz.

Bryan solved the nose slump issue that the .338~300gr bullet was experiencing. It'll be interesting to get his thoughts on this...

I guess whatever they are doing is killing of the 257 120 Interlock HP. I just received a notification from Midway that it's been discontinued.

It's still on their website; doesn't mean Midway won't carry it however.


But you guys are missing the important announcement they made. They discovered another use for that for dehydrator that sits idle after all the jerky has been made…. you can store your handguns in it!

Since they've just admitted to manufacturing a defective product, I'll stand by for the recall notice on the lifetime supply of the defective bullets I have in 3 calibers.

Can't wait for them to be replaced!

What does this supposedly do that a LR Accubond won't?

It won't melt.



Travis

Crap.


I just loaded up a bunch of 52 grain Amaxes to use on gophs out of my .223.

They seemed to work great last spring, but I guess if the tips are melting Id better set them aside for use on sno-gophs only.

And Ill be shooting 60 grain NBTs on predators in Texas this coming February...but hopefully it will be cold enough even there in February that the tips wont melt....

Damn. One more bit of minute to worry about..

I know of lots of people who shoot the SST on game because they won't use the AM. These are mostly guys who haven't a clue, which is obvious, because they're using the SST

Make money for Hornady instead of Nosler.

During the video before they announced the wonder tip I thought Bronze tip right away! LOL

Is it melting or is it obturating/flexing?

Does this mean Hornady goes back and updates their BCs for the Flex tips?

Would love to know how Nosler and Sierra view this issue as they use resin tips as well.

I would imagine Nosler is having a good chuckle over the this huge announcement, much like I am. Nosler can't keep up with demand now. Imagine how busy they'd be if their tips didn't melt off in mid flight. Did Hornady get all the smart guys to be able to figure this out when nobody else could?

Wonder if there's gonna be a trade-in program? What am I gonna do with all the SSTs, VMax's and AMax's that I already have loaded or waiting to be loaded !!!

Well we now know they won't work much past 600 yards so use them for off hand practice.

I will gladly buy any of the faulty Amax and Vmax bullets you fellows want to get rid off. At the price of $5.00 per hundred. Only interested in .22,25.264 and .284 calibers at this time. You really need to get rid of these faulty bullets because with the advent of the new tips the old ones will likely not work anymore. PM a list of what you need to get rid off.

Well, that was a bit of a disappointment. No liquid fuel, or gyroscopic stabilization or nothing along those lines.

And all those other features and it's not even a "bonded" bullet?

I'll wait to see how everyone else does with them and how much they charge. I already have a bunch of other bullets I want to try anyway and nowhere near enough seasons to try them all.

Geno

Still....pretty cool they found these under a rock.

I was hoping for heat seeking projectiles...those damned critters never hold still long enough!

What's really funny are all the snide comments from people that obviously didn't read the technical bulletin that Hornady put out.

David

It always amazes me that Hornady keeps coming out with more stuff-gun safes, magic bullets etc., and they cannot even keep their standard bullets on shelves.

The website says $48/100 for the new bullets. That is nearly twice the tried and true Interlock. No farther than I shoot, I can't see even considering them, considering the type of accuracy and performance I get from Interlocks and Partitions.

They won't be $48/100, that's just MSRP.

Powder Valley is listing them for $32/100 for the hunting models.

Clearly Hornady could take notes from Seirra. Always easy to find Seirra bullets....

David

Yeah but sierra big game bullets suck !

For those too lazy (or unmotivated) to actually read the article. Here are some key points presented therein. (I attempted to maintain any emphasis Hornady had used in their paper).





















The study then shows ballistic gelatin tests & recovered bullets, which I found interesting. All-in-all, I think the article was an interesting read. I'm not sure this "breakthrough" applies to me as I neither shoot in matches nor do I typically take game much past 400 yards. But for those who do, I guess you have a new bullet from which to choose...

Oops, missed one I wanted to quote.



Shooting in cold weather doesn't fix things, but shooting in hotter weather makes things worse.

Nicely done.

I'm not seeing anything that makes me want to run out and ditch my Scenars, but I'll wait and see what happens when actual shooters start shooting vs naysayers flinging poo....

David

Definition

It's when you hit the ground so hard you don't have time to lay your head down as you expire.

Exactly.

I can't figure out why we have found complete plastic tips in like new condition stuck in the meat of the animals we killed with tipped bullet....


One of lifes mysteries....

I would like to see a true comparison.

Take five rifles and load up some new and old bullets for each, everything else being the same.

Compare group size at various ranges.

Compare velocities at various fringes.

Compare trajectory at various ranges.

Even Hornady says there is no advantage unless you are beyond 400 yards.

Ingwe

My understanding of the tech paper that they wrote is that tip degradation occurs as a result of heat caused by friction from flight at high speeds. They state that the degradation doesn't begin until ~100yds (presumably it needs a millisecond or two to reach temps). The degradation is most noticeable from about 100-500yds - after 500yds, the bullet is generally moving slow enough to not have the heat required to degrade the tip.

They also state that this is a degradation of the tip profile - Hornady isn't saying "the tips melt off". They're saying that after about 500yds the tip has degraded to the point that it changes the BC enough that it can be noticed at long range. It wouldn't take much of a flattening of the tip to affect BC such that it could be noticed at 800+.

Given the ranges game is typically shot at, it does not conflict at all with Hornady's claims for a platic tip to be recovered in "like new condition".

FYI - I mostly shoot/hunt w/ Scenars and LRX's. The only AMAX's I shoot regularly are the .22cal 75's. Not being a fanboy here, just trying to read and understand their claims.

Regards,

David

Yup found hundreds of them laying on the surface of the butts at the range when the snow melts in the spring. Have actually found lots of intact bullets that didn't expand after travelling through the snow and stopping, nothing but engraving from the rifling on them. Found a bunch of 168A-maxes lying there one spring in pristine looking condition, tips intact, so being the astute cheap bastard I am I reloaded and shot them again. Shot a group around 12" @ 100yds. Thinkin I should have indexed the groves on the bullet to line up with the lands in the barrel and see how they shoot next time.lol