Bought a brick a few months ago, as the price was right at a local store, and I try to keep some of all brands on hand for article testing. All the reports I'd heard about Winchesters leaking at a "corner" of the cup were about Large Rifle primers, but today I used some while trying different primers with the same bullet and powder charge of a .17 Hornet load.

The third round sprung a pinhole leak at the corner of the primer at the edge of the pocket, spraying powder residue and hot gas over the case head. Oh, and the shot was a flier, two inches to the left of the main (small) group. NONE of the other primers had any problems, even a soft-cupped Tula (Russian) primer designed for lower-pressure rounds like the .17 and .22 Hornet. According to Hornady, the charge of A1680 was under max for the 20-grain V-Max.

I've read a few similar accounts involving Winchester small rifle primers---the copper colored ones.

I've had it happen a number of times with Large Rifle and Large Pistol, but never with either of the small primers.

Got a picture of the primer? Did it crack the side of the cup like this, or is it a different failure mode?

Has Winchester ever made copper colored primers?

Yondering,

It's like the hole on the second photo, which is exactly what I've seen in the samples friends have of the defective LR primers. There's no crack in the side of the primer cup.

The crack can be hard to see, but it is the cause of the common WLR primer issue. The brittle cup cracks, gas leaks through the crack, causing the hole. Of course, you have to remove the primer to see the crack; it's only on the side of the cup not the back.

For clarification, both those pictures show the same primer.

I've experienced holes in old CCI 500 small pistol primers, but no cracks. In that case, the hole was from corrosion of the old primers, not brittle cups.

Which do you think yours is?

I decapped the primer upon returning from the range. There's no crack on the side, just the pinhole on the "corner."

I've not had any issue with Winchester SRP, just the large ones.

And those I did have leak were at pressures above 31 to 32 Kpsi. I had some .45-70 loads at that pressure with no trouble, but my M1 ruptured several with a load at 42 Kpsi.

I, lately, have gotten somewhat "gunshy" of WW components.

Yes, they do now. Changed it up a couple of years ago, I guess.

It became a common complaint in the high power community at the time Winchester stopped plating small rifle primers. Except, if I remember correctly, they were blanking and burning firing pin tips.

Jb, been using them off and on all week around Augusta in a 223 with no problems. BTW other guys are hunting bears up here did you get one? Muddy .

Are you confusing copper with brass? All non-plated Winchester primers I've seen are brass, not copper.

That's why I said "copper colored."

You must be color blind, I've never seen brass that in any way looked "copper colored". While I have never shot any Winchester small rifle primers I have fired thousands upon thousands of Winchester large pistol and large rifle primers without issues of any kind.

JB, Wife and I use WW brass colored primers in our PD town 223 rifles. Many thousands have been fired over the last few years and we have never encountered any problems of any kind. Large rifle std and Mag is a whole different story. Maybe yours is just a one off event bad primer.

That's what I'm beginning to suspect. Will try them some more in other rounds. They weren't the winner anyway in the .17 Hornet.

How much do these "leaks" mess up the bolt face? I have a few thousand WLR primers, from 2015.

They're non-silvery for sure.

They will pit the bolt face in a ring around the primer pocket. On most guns, if it happens just a couple times it's not too serious, but if you keep using them it could destroy the bolt face.

Do some color blind people actually see copper and brass as the same color? Not being color blind myself, I assumed everyone could separate those two, especially gun people who see bullets and brass regularly, but now I'm wondering.

This isn't the first time someone on the 'fire has referred to Win primers as copper colored.

I have had that with Winchester SR primers .Only 2 of about 500 I ran in my AR.Same as the lower pic,but a lot dirtier.

I have had two pinhole perferations using Fed. GM215 primers in a GMA custom 338RUM. They put two big divots in my bolt face. Both from the same lot of 1000 kept sealed in an surplus ammo can. I called Federal and asked if they had any primer problems - the tech "expert" told me my lot was nine years old and no doubt had an embrittlement problem from being stored close to ammonia fumes of some kind. Not likely as I don't use any ammonia bore cleaners or have cats. The tech told me to dispose of the remaing 450 or so of that lot, at my expense. My load was 90gr of RL22 with 210TSX in Rem brass @3100avg. Not a hot load. The gun shoots .5" groups from the bench, the headspace is good.
Thanks Federal.

Good lord. I have no interest in the exact color of primers and I find it amusing that you seem to be fixated on a less than precise reference to the color of Winchester primers. In order to help advance the discussion, and keep from upsetting you in the future I have actually dug up some of these primers and made a mental note so that I will always recall in the future that they are exactly the same color as brass. A thousand pardons.

And NO, I am not color blind. I have perfect color acuity. I Do, however, seem to have a certain weakness when it comes to color recall. As often as not, I do not recall the color of a vehicle I have seen.

Can we talk about primers now?

The brass colored ones aren't as wide as the old silver colored ones. After 4 or 5 reloads they fall out of the cases (Winchester .223 brass). And 24 grains of VARGET with a 69 grain SMK is not a particularly hot load. Remington's (brass colored) do the same. Silver colored ones last until the case necks split, generally about 12 reloads.

I'll second that.

Got these two little cavities in the last month thanks to the Winchester large rifle primers. They were really mild load shooting 100 grainers in my 270 Winchester....

This was a new bolt I had just installed in an M1 Garand. I put a new barrel on so treated it to a new bolt, and this happened within the first 200 rounds.

The load was a Garand-safe load at about 42 Kpsi.



The perps.

Sure it wasn't that Folgers Classic Roast?

Hmmm.....It is the size that "makes 270 cups", so you might have something...

I could post this with claims of being wronged. Except it was me that had my numbers screwy a few years ago. I was pushing a 270 150 grainer to a goal of 3000 (rather than 2900) in accuracy seeking bliss till it was pointed out to me. Then saw this on one of the cases - Dohhh! I changed to Yuban Dark...

I have to give that a try.

Small, no. Large, yes.

Amazing how that little gas jet is just like a plasma cutter.

Be a shame to retire a brick of primers, but even at 40 bucks that's still cheaper than a new bolt or even a firing pin.

While you may have been pushing pressures a bit with those particular loads, the WLR cracked primer issue doesn't seem to be caused by high pressure. I thought so at first, but then had the same issue happen on low pressure subsonic loads as well.

My theory is that they crack when the primer explodes, not when the chamber develops full pressure. The leaks are obviously worse at high chamber pressure, but that's a secondary effect.

I have not had any issues with the WSRPs, but they were made quite a while back.

I was happy with the exchange rate of nearly double for replacing my WLRPs in batchs where I had leakers to show them.

I was disappointed that I could never get them to admit there actually was a quality problem (just reports) or that they made any changes to their production process.
Hoping that did happen and I have no further issues.
jmho

After managing to get my money back from Olin for the WLRs in my supply, I've decided to stay away from the Winnys altogether as there's no telling (they certainly aren't advertising the issue) what's still out there or what other issues there may have been. I wonder if they ever issued a recall to their distributers for the WLRs known to be bad?

Midawy is offering free Hazmat on Winchester primer orders over about $150 bucks, possibly to tempt buyers scared off by all the hubbub.

Just a little off subject, when did the problem begin with the large primers. I have some that range from 3 to 5 years old?

I had some bad WLP primers when Obama got elected the first time, and then some bad WLR when he got elected the second time. Clearly his fault! LOL I suspect it was quality control issues from trying to meet high demand.

Yours are definitely within the time frame of the bad ones.

Having shot tens of thousands of WLR and WLRM I have never had one do that. Never fired a single small rifle primer from Winchester myself. You guys are scaring me with those blow-torch pinholes!

When I commented on the failures of Winchester small rifle primers, I actually recalled incorrectly. It WAS LR primers I had been reading about. And now I find myself in a conundrum of sorts...I acquired my first .264 Win Mag (a pre-64 M70 ) about a year ago and developed loads using some old Winchester magnum large rifle primers because that was what I had (only a hundred or so) besides some CCI LR primers. I tried the CCI, but the Winchester primers seem to do much better in the rifle so I snagged a brick of the first Winchester magnum LRs that came along and they happen to be the brass colored ones. I am hesitant to use them and think maybe I'd best see if I can find something else.

The days of component scarcity SUCK.

Winchester will tell you if the lot number you have is problematic and replace them. Check old posts on the subject for the contact info and/or lists of known bad lots.

JB,
I've not had any problems with WSR primers; had multiple pinholes with WLR primers, and one failure with WLP primers. I've read about other folks here having the same problem and knew you were keeping a list of lot numbers that were suspect, so I put all my Winchester primers (about 5,000) in a five gallon bucket filled with oil. Put the lid on and buried it out in the woods. Now I only use CCI or sometimes Federal.