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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 80
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 80 |
I have had two pinhole perferations using Fed. GM215 primers in a GMA custom 338RUM. They put two big divots in my bolt face. Both from the same lot of 1000 kept sealed in an surplus ammo can. I called Federal and asked if they had any primer problems - the tech "expert" told me my lot was nine years old and no doubt had an embrittlement problem from being stored close to ammonia fumes of some kind. Not likely as I don't use any ammonia bore cleaners or have cats. The tech told me to dispose of the remaing 450 or so of that lot, at my expense. My load was 90gr of RL22 with 210TSX in Rem brass @3100avg. Not a hot load. The gun shoots .5" groups from the bench, the headspace is good. Thanks Federal.
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 14,488
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 14,488 |
Do some color blind people actually see copper and brass as the same color? Not being color blind myself, I assumed everyone could separate those two, especially gun people who see bullets and brass regularly, but now I'm wondering.
This isn't the first time someone on the 'fire has referred to Win primers as copper colored. Good lord. I have no interest in the exact color of primers and I find it amusing that you seem to be fixated on a less than precise reference to the color of Winchester primers. In order to help advance the discussion, and keep from upsetting you in the future I have actually dug up some of these primers and made a mental note so that I will always recall in the future that they are exactly the same color as brass. A thousand pardons. And NO, I am not color blind. I have perfect color acuity. I Do, however, seem to have a certain weakness when it comes to color recall. As often as not, I do not recall the color of a vehicle I have seen. Can we talk about primers now?
Don't be the darkness.
America will perish while those who should be standing guard are satisfying their lusts.
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 11,517 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 11,517 Likes: 2 |
The brass colored ones aren't as wide as the old silver colored ones. After 4 or 5 reloads they fall out of the cases (Winchester .223 brass). And 24 grains of VARGET with a 69 grain SMK is not a particularly hot load. Remington's (brass colored) do the same. Silver colored ones last until the case necks split, generally about 12 reloads.
Don't blame me. I voted for Trump.
Democrats would burn this country to the ground, if they could rule over the ashes.
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,884 Likes: 10
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,884 Likes: 10 |
The brass colored ones aren't as wide as the old silver colored ones. After 4 or 5 reloads they fall out of the cases (Winchester .223 brass). And 24 grains of VARGET with a 69 grain SMK is not a particularly hot load. Remington's (brass colored) do the same. Silver colored ones last until the case necks split, generally about 12 reloads.
I'll second that.
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,340
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,340 |
Got these two little cavities in the last month thanks to the Winchester large rifle primers. They were really mild load shooting 100 grainers in my 270 Winchester....
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 9,536 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 9,536 Likes: 2 |
This was a new bolt I had just installed in an M1 Garand. I put a new barrel on so treated it to a new bolt, and this happened within the first 200 rounds. The load was a Garand-safe load at about 42 Kpsi. The perps.
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 31,438
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 31,438 |
Sure it wasn't that Folgers Classic Roast?
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
Holocaust Deniers, the ultimate perverted dipchits: Bristoe, TheRealHawkeye, stophel, Ghostinthemachine, anyone else?
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 9,536 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 9,536 Likes: 2 |
Hmmm.....It is the size that "makes 270 cups", so you might have something...
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 31,438
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 31,438 |
I could post this with claims of being wronged. Except it was me that had my numbers screwy a few years ago. I was pushing a 270 150 grainer to a goal of 3000 (rather than 2900) in accuracy seeking bliss till it was pointed out to me. Then saw this on one of the cases - Dohhh! I changed to Yuban Dark...
"I can't be canceled, because, I don't give a fuuck!" --- Kid Rock 2022
Holocaust Deniers, the ultimate perverted dipchits: Bristoe, TheRealHawkeye, stophel, Ghostinthemachine, anyone else?
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 9,536 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 9,536 Likes: 2 |
I have to give that a try.
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,808
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,808 |
Old Corps
Semper Fi
FJB
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 10,435 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 10,435 Likes: 1 |
Amazing how that little gas jet is just like a plasma cutter.
Be a shame to retire a brick of primers, but even at 40 bucks that's still cheaper than a new bolt or even a firing pin.
Up hills slow, Down hills fast Tonnage first and Safety last.
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755 |
I could post this with claims of being wronged. Except it was me that had my numbers screwy a few years ago. I was pushing a 270 150 grainer to a goal of 3000 (rather than 2900) in accuracy seeking bliss till it was pointed out to me. Then saw this on one of the cases - Dohhh! I changed to Yuban Dark... While you may have been pushing pressures a bit with those particular loads, the WLR cracked primer issue doesn't seem to be caused by high pressure. I thought so at first, but then had the same issue happen on low pressure subsonic loads as well. My theory is that they crack when the primer explodes, not when the chamber develops full pressure. The leaks are obviously worse at high chamber pressure, but that's a secondary effect.
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,122 Likes: 1
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,122 Likes: 1 |
I have not had any issues with the WSRPs, but they were made quite a while back.
I was happy with the exchange rate of nearly double for replacing my WLRPs in batchs where I had leakers to show them.
I was disappointed that I could never get them to admit there actually was a quality problem (just reports) or that they made any changes to their production process. Hoping that did happen and I have no further issues. jmho
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." Albert Einstein
At Khe Sanh a sign read "For those who fight for it, life has a flavor the protected never knew".
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,911 Likes: 16
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,911 Likes: 16 |
After managing to get my money back from Olin for the WLRs in my supply, I've decided to stay away from the Winnys altogether as there's no telling (they certainly aren't advertising the issue) what's still out there or what other issues there may have been. I wonder if they ever issued a recall to their distributers for the WLRs known to be bad?
Midawy is offering free Hazmat on Winchester primer orders over about $150 bucks, possibly to tempt buyers scared off by all the hubbub.
What fresh Hell is this?
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,904 Likes: 3
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,904 Likes: 3 |
Just a little off subject, when did the problem begin with the large primers. I have some that range from 3 to 5 years old?
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,755 |
I had some bad WLP primers when Obama got elected the first time, and then some bad WLR when he got elected the second time. Clearly his fault! LOL I suspect it was quality control issues from trying to meet high demand.
Yours are definitely within the time frame of the bad ones.
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 13,117 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 13,117 Likes: 2 |
Having shot tens of thousands of WLR and WLRM I have never had one do that. Never fired a single small rifle primer from Winchester myself. You guys are scaring me with those blow-torch pinholes!
NRA Benefactor Member
Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 14,488
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 14,488 |
When I commented on the failures of Winchester small rifle primers, I actually recalled incorrectly. It WAS LR primers I had been reading about. And now I find myself in a conundrum of sorts...I acquired my first .264 Win Mag (a pre-64 M70 ) about a year ago and developed loads using some old Winchester magnum large rifle primers because that was what I had (only a hundred or so) besides some CCI LR primers. I tried the CCI, but the Winchester primers seem to do much better in the rifle so I snagged a brick of the first Winchester magnum LRs that came along and they happen to be the brass colored ones. I am hesitant to use them and think maybe I'd best see if I can find something else. The days of component scarcity SUCK.
Don't be the darkness.
America will perish while those who should be standing guard are satisfying their lusts.
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,911 Likes: 16
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 28,911 Likes: 16 |
Winchester will tell you if the lot number you have is problematic and replace them. Check old posts on the subject for the contact info and/or lists of known bad lots.
What fresh Hell is this?
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