John:

Just a quick note to say how much I enjoyed your article on the 80th birthday of the Model 70. But I must say, you're going to stir a hornet's nest here on the 'Fire by insinuating that the current iteration is (perhaps) the best one yet.

RM

I've been saying that for years. He got it from me.....

What issue? The current SA site doesn't show anything.

A friend of mine just gave me a copy of Sports Afield. I hadn't seen a copy in a long time. They have certainly done a nice job with the publication and although I may never go to Africa, I might subscribe just because I didn't see a single Glock or AR platform in the whole magazine...

July/August, page 18.

Yeah, but he also said he likes the MOA trigger, so that's gonna leave a mark.

Which is exactly why I'm letting a few subscriptions expire.

You know, I didn't think the MOA trigger sucked. The glue on the adjustments screws was a bitch to get off, but once it was gone....a little tweaking....and the trigger didn't suck.

Yeah, I had to pick that stuff out with a hot, tiny crochet needle. What a pain. But once it was out I put an Ernie spring in, backed the screw out, used clear nail polish to hold it in place, and it now breaks at just under 3 pounds. I can live with that.

As noted in the article, the latest M70 instructions that come with every rifle actually describe how to adjust the triggers--but I haven''t adjusted mine, because they came from the factory with very clean 3-1/2 pound pulls, just as advertised.

I also believe that current Model 70s are as good as any made in the past. I have a new 7mm-08 and a 308 that shoot less than moa,feed and function perfectly,and had 3.5 pound triggers right from the factory.

If there is anything wrong with either of them,I don't know what it is.

I prefer the design of the old trigger,but the new one is a good trigger as far as I can tell. If somebody made an old style trigger to fit the new action,I know they would sell,but I don't think I'd spend the time or the money to change mine.

Yeah, it would be nice for some purposes to be able to drop in an old-style trigger. I was kind of hoping Alaska Arms would introduce something similar to their M70-style trigger for 98 Mausers, but also doubt I'd change the triggers on my pair of new M70's.

M.D. what are your new M70 chambered in? And how do they shoot?

I've owned 4 of the new ones and played with a 5th. None of the triggers needed to be touched and I found the rifles all to be accurate and require less fiddling than the NH models in general.

One 300 WSM EW has to have been among the most accurate out of the box rifles I have ever owned.

But I don't own any of them anymore likely because I didn't need any of them and deep in my heart a M70 has to have a M70 trigger.

But I'm a curmudgeon and still like 4X scopes,too.

super T,

One is a Jack O'Connor Commemorative in, of course, .270 Winchester, and the other is a .300 WSM.

Ah, the Model 70 is just a passing fad that will never catch on. I'm waiting for them to come to their senses and revive the Model 54.

Bob,

I have the two new M70s from Belgium and have three of the South Carolina guns. Had no problems with the South Carolina guns either.

I do agree with you that many of the latter New Haven guns were a project in a box. They all needed trigger work. Many needed to have work with bedding or other accuracy issues.

The pre64 guns featured great metal work but the stocks are nothing special,they were set up for iron sights mostly.

The new ones are as good as any IMHO.

gnoahhh,

Yeah, I really miss the trigger and, especially, floorplate on the 54!

Do you have Fixed 4 power scopes on both? !

I have a coupe of the new ones (classic) and a few pre - 64's. In 1964 a cousin brought a brand new model 94 over. She couldn't sight it in. It shot a little over a pie plate size group at 100 yards. We (brother came out when I expressed my frustration) centered the pattern the best we could. I thought that the only Winchester I would own would be the older ones. The term pre-64 was a term I hadn't heard but it meant what I was thinking. The only good Winchesters were already made.

Now, I think the new 70's are better than many of the early 60's models and in fact are as good as any produced. But I won't be selling my early ones either. I still like my Remingtons, but don't care much for the other major manufacturer's made in the USA rifles.

Hey, Bob!

The 1956 Savage M99 I bought last month has a POS 4X scope on it I'm looking to get rid of, if you're interested... It's called a "K4". It's one of them Jack Weaver scopes, I guess. Can't imagine anybody wanting one in this day and age, but I know you're kinda tetched in the haid, so I might could make you a deal.

I could buy me one of them new Leupy 1.5-33X variables then...

Point taken!

Actually, I'm totally at home with a military-style two stage trigger so the 54 trigger doesn't bother me in the least. The solid floor plate is another matter though. But in reality it's not a handicap. The rifles I own/owned with hinged floor plates allowed for quick and simple unloading, but usually with one or two cartridges ending up on the ground anyway. Having grown up with Springfields and Mausers, I take short-stroking the bolt to empty the magazine as another given in life.

Doc thanks...but I am a M8 4X guy and kinda like the 4X Conquest as well, of which I have two right now.


Your psychological profile of me is very accurate but I have heard it before.....


Brit: Yes you are right. The new rifles are kinda push button.

But I look at the wood on most pre 64's,sigh, puke,and replace the stocks..

Hell they last a long time.

I am a long time user and great fan pre-64 Mod.70., but I will admit that some of the latest Mod.70 look and feel just as good as some of the pre-64's That said, all Mod.70's have a serious flaw, they allow gas to escape through the bolt assembly to the shooters face and eyes should there be a catastrophic case failure. I know this because I have witnessed it.

When the Classic was introduced, one of the improvements over the pre-64 was a gas block mounted opposite the extractor to reduce gas from flowing back through the left raceway. In addition, later Classics also had a gas flange on the left side of the bolt shroud to deflect any gases which came through the left raceway away from the shooters face. Post New Haven Model 70's incorporate both these features. But, are you saying gas comes through the interior of the bolt, past the firing pin?

Mudstud, sorry about the slow reply. The rifle in question was likely manufactured in the 90's. Moreover, I am unaware of the improvements you describe. I hope they work. I'm not sure how the gas and metal particles found their way to my brothers face and right eye, but they certainly did. The cause of the accident has never been determined. The ammo was factory stuff. The rifle was put together by a nationally know gun builder who has a fine reputation. The rifle at his request was sent to him for inspection, but he could not come up with a definite cause. The rifle is a 300WM. I'm thinking it was a plugged bore because we were hunting mud and snow, but who knows.

I've had a few pre 64 model 70's and a couple of the FN made versions. NONE of the pre 64's shot as well as the FN versions.

I've got a SS Extreme Weather in 270, factory MOA trigger (adjusted to 3 lbs) that has shot several sub 1/4" 3 shot 100 yard groups, the best being .140

I like the pre 64's and still have a couple but IMO the FN versions leave nothing to be desired.

That's his job.

I got a complimentary copy in the mail, apparently they're running a promotion to generate more subscriptions. Good read, and a pleasant surprise.

I've looked in several stores. Found Outdoor Life, Field and Stream. Can't find a Sports Afield anywhere.

Amen! Especially the Pre '34.

I've got five of them and each one needed an Ernie spring to get the MOA trigger pull down to three pounds. One of them still needs some honing to stop the trigger creep.

The glue locking the screw comes right off if you hit them with heat. It doesn't take much. Even a hair dryer works.

I sure wish I'd have thought of that instead of incurring the wrath of Mrs. Rev for having ruined one of her small crochet hooks.

Hairdryers? Crochet hooks?


Geezus...

With a real trigger, you use a wrench...and screwdriver.

Good one, Bob.

beefan: Laffin' Haha!

Amen! Of course they'll only sell ten or twenty copies with the absence of AR's & Glocks according to some folks.

Re the new Model 70's. I've handled a few of their supergrades. The finish on their receivers is just as horrible as anything produced in the last 30 years. It's aweful. Yes they are shiny, and that's about all that anyone will notice anyway.

Have you seen anything better in that price range?

Owned one? Shot one? Worked with one? Or just handled one? Not being contentious; just trying to clarify.

Well......that is either the first thing you've said to surprise me, OR the most surprising thing I've read from you.

Those pre 64 stocks were THE reason I never bought any. I understand $$$ but it seems to me they dropped a turd in the churn there.

Jerry

Those 2 things could get me to subscribe and I dropped ALL my mags by 2000.

Thnx for the heads up.


Jerry

Jerry the pre 64 stocks were serviceable in their day of iron sights,and the monte carlos were not bad but hardly ideal.

The bedding was nothing to write home about but the funny thing is many of the rifles still shot well because the barrels were so good and the barreled action laid flat and without a lot of tension.

But if I'm getting together a rifle I intend to use a lot, I buy a stock for it.

Bob, I understand.

When I was 'parusing' Pre 64s, buying another stock was not an option for me.


Jerry

Bob,

I've even owned a pre-'64 or two that shot REALLY well with the forend screw tightened hard--as in 3-shot groups with all holes touching. And they would do it again and again. According to today's dogma, this is impossible!

John I had Swift like that! It shot some ridiculous 300 groups with the screw tightened.

Others have varied in whether the screw was tight or just firm or even removed,but that's to be expected.

My last 264 was a hammer with the screw just snugged.....not farmer tight!

I have two pre 64 FW's here with factory stocks,a 3006 and 270,and both shoot fine.I may leave them as is,currently having no need to change them out.


I did finally get SA and read the article which I enjoyed. You did a great job factually pulling together the sequence of M70 production and changes etc. I had forgotten lots of that myself!

I like the way you left the issue of the "best" M70 hanging out at the end...

Glad you liked the article!

The variations that work with pre-'64 forend bedding are almost endless. One of the pre-'64's I didn't own, but restocked, belongs to a local friend. Back when Reinhart Fajen was still in business (and I still had time to do stock work) I put on a nicely figured Classic, checkering it in a traditional point pattern. But instead of messing with the forend screw I removed it, and simply bedded the forend completely. My buddy had messed with the forend screw, and had the rifle shooting pretty well, but after dumping the screw it started shooting little bughole groups with 150 Partitions! In fact, I seem to recall that its more accurate than any other pre-'64 in a big game chambering he's ever owned, and he's owned dozens.

Did it stay sighted in?

Game can be taken with the first shot.

Target rifles must shoot groups.

I'm left handed. They are not. I've handled and shot them. But quite frankly it isn't hard to spot rounded corners and dished polishing. I've spent hundreds of dollars putting defined lines back where they should be on "classics" and have to laugh when I hear that the newer ones are a much better product. They are basically the same minus a good trigger.