I want to stock up on an easy metering ball powder for accuracy loads in .223 with 50, 52, 53, and 55 grain bullets.

Loads will be used in both a bolt gun and a 20" medium weight AR15.

I'm considering Ramshot X-Terminator, Ramshot TAC, or Hodgdon 335.

The guns will be used for informal target shooting at 100-200 yards and varmint hunting to a max of 300 yards.

Which of these powders, or which other ball powder is suggested??

X-Terminator is my favorite in those bullet weights.

Both TAC and X-Terminator are good; I mostly run TAC.

H335 normally provides fine accuracy, but is dirtier-burning and far more temperature sensitive. I've shot as many as 500+ rounds of TAC ammo without cleaning the bore of one of my .223's, and accuracy was just as good at the end. In my experience the bore would have needed scrubbing at least 10 times during the same 500 rounds.

I've been loving life with CFE-223 with 50-55's in the .223- accurate, clean, and it really does erase copper fouling to a big extent (probably determined a lot by how smooth the bore is).

If any of the LGS's ever get some TAC on the shelf I would dearly love to try it too. But if I'm doomed to using CFE-223 forever I won't feel the least bit disadvantaged.

TAC has become my favorite for the .223 and all 3 AR's in that caliber love it. Clean burning too.

I'm a little surprised that benchmark hasn't been mentioned? Why? Are the others that much better?

OH, just occurred to me that benchmark is NOT a ball powder.

Ramshot TAC. I've shot a great deal of H335 in my 7TCU and it is a fine powder, but not nearly as clean as TAC.

TAC is my choice.

I'm a fan of H-335 with 40Ballistics, but I'm old-school.

kd

TAC is the only powder I use in the 223's my wife and I shoot in our dog town rifles. Clean burning and accurate.

Nope it isnt, but it meters just as well as any ball powder.

N133 is like that too.

TAC for me.

MD, help me recollect here but didn't you report that one of the bullet makers uses 26.0 grains of TAC for all accuracy testing with their 50 grain bullets?

I'm not a bullet maker but that load works great for me.

TAC







P

Jim,

They definitely were a few years ago. Dunno if they had to switch during the TAC shortage after the fire in Belgium.

Benchmark flows nearly as well as ball......

I've heard a lot of good things about Benchmark but I haven't tried it yet.

The LGS doesn't stock TAC so once my supply is gone I'll give it a try.

Does anybody use Winchester 748?

I've burned many pounds of H335 but am considering a switch to CFE223. Much cleaner powder and I get higher velocities.

748 was the first rifle powder I ever bought when I started reloading for a .223 and .30-06 and I still always keep some on hand.

I always had good results with Win 748,But it is not as clean burning as TAC.

Yes, with 50gr V-max and max charges in a Browning Micro Medallion A-bolt.

I going to try some with 50gr v-max in a Rem. 700 26in. bull barrel

Brazos Jack,

I might also point out that while Benchmark is also a great .223 powder, and does meter very easily, it's more expensive than TAC (or most other spherical powders, for that matter). Prices for BM on three websites where I often order components averaged 12% higher than TAC.

John since you went down that route, the reason I have never tried N133 is because it averages 8 to 10 bucks per pound more than benchmark or about 25 - 30% more.

Yep, all the VV powders are pricey!

I do use some powders that cost a little more than others, but only in cartridges I don't shoot a lot, mostly big game rounds where the gain in performance is worth the small additional price per round. But when shooting thousands of rounds cost is obviously a factor, at least for most of us.

When I got my stash of N133 I got a deal. My old component supplier sold me several pounds on clearance. He wasn't going to carry VV any longer because of spotty availability at the time.

I've had good luck with CFE 223

That would be a good way to get some!

My supply of VV powders is mostly free, sent to me a few years ago by the then-distrubutor. In general, however, I haven't found them to be significantly better than other brands, though they're always worth a try. In my 6mm PPC benchrest rifle I'm using LT-32 instead of 133.

I have a two pounder of N140 squirreled away, and my handloading student has a single and a half. It's nearly magical for accuracy for our 700 Classics in 300 Savage.

Mathman, I'm curious what that N140 load might be. I have one of the 300 Savage 700 Classics as well, but have yet to find a great load for it. 150 SST's with the RL-15 load you suggested has so far been the best.

TAC is pretty much H335 without the warts, what H335 should have been or should be now.

I've tried just about all the ball powders that will work in the 223. I use the 223 strictly for varmints and rarely use bullets over 55 grains, with the 50 grain VMax being what I use most. My most accurate load in a bolt rifle has been with surplus WC846. Extremely consistent on the chronograph, and very accurate as well. With my AR's, I like H335, BL-C2, W748....all old school, I know.....also TAC, X-Terminator, H322, WC844, plus a few of the AA powders.

I've burned about a ton of H-335 and haven't had any problems with it. Accurate and fast; what's not to like.

Or maybe I'm too damned old to change

kd

win 748 works best in my guns

Win 748 OR H335

Hopefully I'll be able to find the data for you. It's not ingrained in my brain like my 308 stuff and I recently lost tons of reference/research material during major flooding of my house.

N140 2,44 37.6 719 2360 2,72 42.0 793 2602

http://www.vihtavuori.com/en/reloading-data/rifle-reloading/-300-savage.html

I was thinking more of the particular 300Sav+P, OK in a Rem 700 load we worked up a couple of years ago.

H335, TAC, and AR-Comp are my favorite. I have too much to try CFE, but someday maybe.

Thanks Mathman, would love the data if you could find it.

Yup.....my favorite of the ball powders, probably because it is old school...

last several years, I've been running a lot of H 322 thru a lot of my 223 reloads along with some other calibers....the other being AR Comp.

TAC or CFE223

Friday I was chronographing some rounds and had a .223 with me so ran some of them over the screens.

Two 3 shot groups, 26.0 TAC, Sierra 53 HPBT, WSR primer.

First three - high of 3211 fps, low of 3209, extreme spread of 3 fps.
Second three - high of 3207 fps, low 3201, extreme spread 6 fps.
Six shots total with an extreme spread of 10 fps.

Not saying other powders won't produce good results also - good ol' IMR4198 is still an excellent powder for accuracy in the .223, but once you get TAC up into its optimum pressure range it produces very consistent velocities and great accuracy.

Have mentioned this before here and there, but when TAC first appeared the folks at Western Powders told me it was not only very clean-burning but temperature-resistant. I worked up a load for an Oregon Kimber .223 during summer, then that winter ran some cold-tests, the temperature (and rifles and ammo) all at right around zero, the best way to run such tests.

The string of velocities for the TAC handload, 26.0 grains with 50 Ballistic Tips, averaged EXACTLY the same as it had at 70 degrees, when shooting the same rifle and using the same chronograph. The odds of that happening are pretty slim even when testing during the same range session; there's normally at least a 10-15 fps difference even then. In fact, it's the ONLY time that's happened whenever I run the same sort of cold test.

Luckily, I only had a few rounds left for the test, or it probably would have come out slightly differently....

The rest of the story.

These are the two three shot groups mentioned previously, fired from a LH Tikka T3 Lite with a Leupold VX-II 3-9 scope on 9 power. I was just messing around here, wasn't trying to hold my tongue in the proper position or pay attention to the phase of the moon or anything, and this is the result.

These were fired about 15 minutes apart, in between which the rifle was removed from the bags and the front rest shifted around for other rifles. Group at 4 o'clock is .208", group at 10 o'clock is .231, total of six shots is .611". Btw, the lower one had the extreme spread of 3 fps, the upper one had the 6 fps spread - that wider velocity spread must be the reason for the grouping going all to hell like that.

Whether this is a testimonial to Tikka rifles, Sierra bullets or 26.0 grains of TAC I couldn't distinguish, but taken all together they make a pretty good team.

Apparently!

I have not tried different powders in my many 223's since 1995 when I bought many many pounds of the then new Varget. I ran out about 6 months ago and found out the new Varget is nothing like the original Varget, it still works with the heavies but not so good with the 50-55's. I first tried Benchmark with every load from mild to wild from 40gr to 69gr bullets. some of the groups I got were OK but never found a load with under 100fps extreme spread. I even tried this powder in 3 other chamberings with the same results, think I'll use the rest of the 8 pounder for fertilizer. I have tried about 10 different powders looking for that perfect load for my 50gr Blitzkings. best I have found so far is VVN130 (that I shoot in my 222's)and H322 in a tie, with VVN133 not too far behind. I did find one powder worse than Benchmark and that was LT-30 in my 40x I never found a load that would shoot under 1.5" LT-32 shot OK though. After reading this thread I am going to give TAC a try before I decide on a final load.

H335 is the only one of those I have used. It works well.

I just checked my old load notes. I used AA2230 for 40s and 45s and H335 for 50s and heavier.

Today, starting from scratch, I'd definitely give CFE223 a try.

Tom

335 with 62's, 64's and 65's works good for me in the AR. Get sub moa out of my 6920 and sub 1/2 moa out of the bushy varmints.
The Hawk Hill barreled Montana likes varget though...... With 55 vmax, 62 tsx and 75 Amax.

Not one mention of BL-(C)2? Long a favorite of mine, fouling isn't bad either. Going to try CFE-223 soon though. I also like the way BL-(C)2 works in my 308 rifles.

I'm going to affirm Boatie's observations about Varget in that weight class. Some of you have read Mic McPherson's obsessive experiments that have had surprising and useful results for his lazier readers.
I am pretty much convinced that Varget at 50-55 charge weights in the 223 case brings granule packing into play, something Mic has written about. I can stuff a case with Varget, crunch it down under a 40 and it shoots. I can load under 60s and it shoots like crazy good. But under 50s and 55s, sometimes it packs, sometimes it doesn't.
Since I want to pump and dump, rather than "swirl charge" or tap the case (both of which work, Mic proved it), I moved faster to H 4895 Extreme from Varget for 50s.
But again, I am really liking what I see from TAC at that bullet weight range, too. I've been holding out for a jug of 4895, but at this point, if I see a jug of TAC, I'm buying it.

I followed Mule Deer's advice several years ago and just got on the Tac train. I use it for 40 through 62 gr bullets in the .223 Rem and it works pretty well in .338 Federal, too. I haven't tried it much in the .308 Win because I got such great results from IMR-4064 right out of the gate. I have a couple pounds of H-335, Accurate 2015 and 2230, and Exterminator, but I try to have at least one full 8 pound keg of Tac on hand at all times. Definitely my first choice for the .223/5.56.

Tac for 50 and up, X-Terminator for 50 or less. Good accuracy and velocity; easy metering, hundreds of rounds between cleaning. IMR 4895 will work if I don't have Tac or X-Terminator but doesn't meter as well and requires more frequent cleaning.

And you don't even have to swirl them into the cases! :-)

X-Terminator usually beats TAC for accuracy and velocity up to 69gr, in my experience; Ramshot's 5.56 data shows this too.

For 50-55gr, XTerminator is so much better than everything else, it shouldn't even be a question. In my "humble" opinion.

Thanks, based on what I've read, Ramshot's burn chart and one 223 that I tried X-Terminator in I thought Tac would be overall better for 55s or heavier. I'll give it another try when I get a chance.

I've had excellent luck with 40-grain bullets using TAC, though velocity is a little behind Benchmark.