I've just ordered some today from Swift.
Any experience with them?

I've just taken notice to these bullets. Swift offer's or advertise;

80% weight retention.
Accuracy is sub minute.
They will open up down to 1,700 fps.
Very high BC�s, take note....224 75 grain is .419 this would turn the Swift or 22-250 into a whole new animal.
6.5 130's are .571 .308 180's are .520
Price value for 100 bullets.

These bullets would seem to compete with the Barnes TSX
maybe giving up some weight to the TSX but holding an big edge in BC and being able to reliably open up at a lower velocity. Barnes open up at 2000 fps?
How will the Swift penetrate in regards to Barnes?
For the long range hunter/shooter they would seem to offer
a whole lot more yardage flexibility.

They are also less expensive than Barnes bullets. I can save $18.00 to $20.00 per box of 100.

A gun-maker friend with a Juenke tester says they're "perfect" according to his tests on the Juenke.

FWIW

Shot my Mulie Buck last year down near Bethel Ridge with a 135gr Scirocco out of my .270 WIN. 180yd shot, bullet did not exit. Retained about 91% of original weight, both of them.
I'm extremely happy. I will be trying the Accubond this year on some Whitetails.

SPAD

" gun-maker friend with a Juenke tester says they're "perfect" according to his tests on the Juenke."

Thank you for your reply Ken.

This tells me the Swift company pays attention to the smallest details. I'll bet the inside of the bullet compares with the outside.

Thanks for the input SPAD, I've hunted elk down on the Bethel a few years ago. Saw some some nice mule deer there at the time.

Swift uses a Juenke machine to test the production runs of Sciroccos, so it is not surprising they test very well. They have on my Juenke machine as well.

While they will retain a high percentage of weight, Sciroccos open very widely (like any bonded bullet without a super-thick sidewall or solid shank to retard expansion) so they will not come close to the penetration of a Barnes TSX, or many other bullets that have some means of retarding expansion along the shank, such as the Nosler Partition.

In fact, they were not designed as a deep-penetrating bullet. They were designed as a bullet for deer-sized game, though of course they will kill much larger game if they don't have to penetrate super-deeply. (See the post from SPAD above; this is very typical of Scirocco performance.)

If you want deeper penetration, Swift recommends their A-Frame. If you want deeper penetration out of a high-BC bullet with a plastic tip, the I would recommend the Nosler AccuBond. It is designed with very heavy sidewalls to retard expansion, so does not open up as widely as the Scirocco and penetrates deeper, about like a Partition of the same weight. It also tests essentially perfect on the Juenke machine.

MD

Sounds like an ideal bullet for my .257 Roy, if they only made one in that diameter. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Would you recommend the Accubond for long range pronghorn out of the .257? Been shooting Partitions but always on the lookout for something new to try.

Thanks,
Jeff M.

MD,

Excellent information on the differences in bullets. This really helps in getting a perspective for bullet use.

I'll be testing them out in my 264 with mule deer in mind.

Thank you!

I think they are very competitive with the Hornady Interbond and Nosler Accubond. I've shot all these bullets with great success for accuracy. I've killed large deer with the Accubond and the terminal effects were tremendous. I assume the same results would be forthcoming from the Sciroccos and Interbonds due to their similarity in construction. The Barnes TSX is completely different construction; being monolithic and not of bonded construction. My experience with the 168gr. TSX in 30 cal. has been the best yet. Super accurate and better penetration than any other 180gr. 30 cal bullet I have fired through my 300 WM.

Jeff--

The 110 AccuBond should be great in the .257 Roy. As a matter of fact, I am about to try some myself in that very caliber.

Have seen a lot of AccuBonds work on game, and they do seem to act about like Partitions when they hit--a good thing, in my estimation. They are normally very accurate, often in my experience even more accurate than Ballistic Tips.

For the greatest pentration TSX's can't be beat, but there's also no reason for all that penetration on many of the animals we hunt, unless of course we are asking a smaller chambering to step up out of its normal class.

MD

So . . .

A 150 TSX is used on Elk to achieve penetration out to 250 yards in say a 308 Winchester?

BMT

BTW-Hi Dr. Howell!

Glad to have you back among the Juenke Junkies!

You were missed!

BMT

BMT, I'd say that 350yds would still work... unless you hit the alotta bone!!

Three-Hunnert and Fifty yards . . .

I ain't that good a shot . . . .

Under Field Conditions . . . . .

All sweaty and worked up . . . . .

Chasing the stinking beasts over the Coast Range . . . .

In the Rain . . . . .(grin)

BMT

I am going to shoot the Scirrocco II's in my .243 and 25 WSSM this year as long as all the testing works out as planned. I am going to shoot the Interbond's in my 270 WSM, 7mm-08 and 300 SAUM.

If you are one who wants a bullet to hit hard, and expend most of it's energy "within" the animal, the Scirocco is at the top of it's class. A bullet designed to do the above is just about a "perfect" deer sized game bullet.

How do the Fusions compare to the other bonded bullets? Penetration, weight retention and sidewall thickness as comparisons which other bullet (Interbond, Scirocco and Accubond) do they resemble the most? Thanks Sam

BMT--

From what I have seen, a 150 TSX from a .308 would be just fine on elk, at any range you could place the shot decently.

Montana Sam--

The Fusions don't have thick sidewalls, so tend to open up wide. They act much like any of the thinner-jacketed bonded bullets, such as the Core-Lokt Ultra, Interbond, and Scirocco, opening up wide.

The AccuBond has a thicker jacket along the sidewalls, and tends to act like a Nosler Partition: opening up to a smaller front and retaining more shank. Thus it tends to penetrate deeper.

MD

MD, any word on when a 6.5 mm offering may be available in the Accubond?

Thanx John.

So many choices . . . . . . .

So many opinions from experienced professionals . . . .

Not enough hunting . . . . . . .

BMT

Thanks Mule Deer. I emailed Federal last night and they said the bullet was really designed for deer, but would work 'ok' for elk. I just read Petzal's article in the May Field & Stream and he says, I quote:
"a lot of people who don't know that you 'need' premium bullets to do so will kill a great many elk, moose, and black bears with these slugs."
I guess it really comes down to the all important shot placement issue. Sam

Aggie-- Haven't heard anything for sure yet.

Montana Sam-- Nothing beats really good shooting, especially when they stand just so. There is also a compromise to be made between expansion and penetration. Even a really big elk is only about 15" from side to side, just behind the shoulder. Problem is, sometimes they won't give you that shot.

MD

I used some 150 scirrocos in my 280 when they first became available and shot 2 whitetail does with the load. One was at about 225yds. Both animals dropped quickly but I was disappointed in the penetration. I would not use those bullets on larger game. I mentioned this to Hober at Swift at a SCI show that year and he didn't seem surprised. They may have thickened the jackets. If so, that probably settled what to me was a weakness. Both bullets struck bone and both weighed around 90 grns. My impression was a good bullet for 150# or lighter game in .284 driven at 280 velocities. But...as stated, that was a few years ago.

As I stated above, Swift designed the Scirocco was a bullet for deer-sized game. They already had the A-Frame for bigger stuff.

When the Scirocco appeared the only plastic-tip deer bullet on the market was the Nosler Ballistic Tip. Some hunters thought it expanded too much, and the core could separate from the jacket pretty.

So Swift brought out the Scirocco as super-accurate, plastic-tip, "deer" bullet that would hold together, but they also designed it to open quickly--as a lot of people believe a good deer bullet should, especially the sort of hunters who like to shoot deer at longer ranges with super-accurate rifles. In other words, the same boys who shot Ballistic Tips.

The Scirocco II is very much the same bullet as the "old" Scirocco--or at least the samples I've gotten have acted that way. So don't blame the Scirocco for not penetrating deeply. It was never meant to.

MD

MD, as a deer bullet I have no doubt that the Scirrocos excel, however, my experience seems to have been somewhat different than some others or it was a combination of tissue/bone that stopped the penetration. I realize that these bullets open to a large frontal area but I thought they should have gone further in the animal than they did. But as everyone states....dead is dead.

You want the bullet to expand most of it's energy into the animal not on the tree behind the animal, correct?

Mule Deer,

Do the bullets open up as much as the BT's? I like the BT's for their accuracy but they open up a little too fast for me. I was hoping the Scirocco II's would be some where between the BT's and the Partitions.

Ken L, the ones I have recovered opened up to just over the size of a quarter and retained 82-84% of their original weight...they were .284 150's started at 3279fps.. Both were from Ks whitetail bucks, the first was shot on the point of the shoulder, quertering, at 180yds..I found that one in a kidney.. The second was shot at 45yds walkin straight at me... he never even wiggled!! I found that one in the far guts... 721

Ken--

Ther Scirocco's open up as wide as BT, but tend to retain somewhat more weight--at least over the "deer-size" BT's of under .30 caliber.

MD

Mule Deer

Thats a good point, about improving smaller calibers with the TSX. I shoot a 6.5X55 and really love the 120gr X bullet in it, but i wouldnt shoot a deer with a Speer hot core 120gr or any other conventional bullet in 120grs.

This year i shot a nice size 5 point whitetail with the swede and a 140gr Speer hot core at around 35yds. The shot was right behind the shoulder, it should have cleaved the heart right in two, but that didnt happen. It was the first time that the swede did not completely penetrate an animal, and im talking 120gr 129gr and 140gr bullets.

It looked like the 140gr hot core entered at an angle from front to rear and instead of holding a straight path it was deflected into the paunch. I didnt find blood until 40yds in the thick mountain laurels, not fun! but i found him, the X bullet would have kept its course and exited no doubt about that.

Interesting! I have shot a lot of deer with Speer Hot Cores and have always had good luck. In fact I shot a couple with the 140 from a .264 Magnum a couple of years ago, and they worked fine. I wonder what happened to cause that weird behavior....

MD

I have also had very god luck with Speer Hotcores. I find they are the toughest of the traditional cup and core crowd.

I culled a bunch of fallow deer with speer hotcores and never had issues, but like I have said on this board many times I have never had a bullet fail.

Ken,
In my experience, BT's and Partitions both open up very rapidly with the main disparity occurring in the realm of penetration. For any bullet to squeeze in between them would be asking a lot and would be splitting hairs.

My most instantaneous kills have always come from BT's and Partitions. They are both awesome on deer!

So what kind of preformance do you think I would get from a 264 mag with the 130 gr sicroccos @ 3400 fps on deer size criters? I was realy hopeing they would hold together better than it looks like they will!
Thanks

Muledeer, are you likeing the 264 a little better now?

The one Scirocco I recovered from a deer was on a quartering towards shot from a 300 rum. The 180 Gr. bullet came to rest just in front of the offside ham and weighed 142 Gr. That bullet penetrated quite a bit of deer including the gut pile. It was actually a very poor shot due to the deers angle to me being misjudged through heavy timber. At the shot I thought I saw him leave his feet and realised the actual angle and that he was gut shot. I watched him briefly regain his feet and go down again thrashing. Within 2 minutes he was dead.
I felt like that bullet did its job when I needed an edge. Most of the other deer I killed with a Scirocco were broadside behind the shoulder. Typically small hole in, large hole out, maybe 2" with lung chunks sprayed on the ground. I like these bullets because they do hold together yet expand.

Good,!!!!!!! I have got a good load worked up for my 300 wsm with the 165 sicrroco aroud the 3250 mark, I put 3 in .3 @ 100 I cant wait to test it agin at longer ranges.

prdator--

I like the .264 fine, but not enough to own one anymore.

My experience with it was all positive, but I also found that it doesn't really start to beat the .270 until the bullets get out to around 500 yards. In all my life I have never yet shot any big game at 500 yards--or even shot at them that far away.

Out to 400 I have found the .270 just as effective. So my .264 got traded for another super-hot number, at least for its day: A Winchester Model 1894 made in 1898, chambered for the .25-35 WCF, with 26-inch octagon barrel and 2-leaf rear sight.

MD

Just got off the phone with a Swift Tech. He said the Sirocco 2�s or second generation are a different bullet than the first generation.

That they are constructed differently with a changed metallurgy. That they will not open up as wide as the first generation. He said they would work on elk and that penetration should be no problem on the largest animals.
He also said an unexpected plus was that they even became more accurate.

Cool, cant wait to try them out.

I'll test them for penetration along with some 130 TSX's
to see how they stack up against each other.

Well so far my 264 does not like them that much, shot it this am and first 3 is in .5 the next two open it to .9
I was hoping for a lot better than this but will keep trying difernt powders.

What powder were you using?

What was your seating depth?

today was
Magnum 72 (3461fps) and 72.5gr(3497fps) No pressuer signs yet but will stop there.
Magpro 70(3405fps) 71(3465 71 was too hot)
I may try H4831 agin and maybe Retumbo
I'v got them about .010 off the lands, Do you think they need to be close or farther away?

I think Ill start trying TSX's next week

Are these loads for a 130 grain Swift bullet?

As far as depth, I would experiment a little to find that sweet spot.

Yes all 130 gr sicroccos

I tried the old Scirocco's in my 270 a few years ago. Admittely I didn't go through a lot of time to find the perfect load. I did however try several powders, but I just couldn't get them to shoot as accuractly as I wanted. The best I got was 1.5" and yes that is good enough, but that was the best. Most were over that.

I took them hunting that fall and shot a big-bodied mule deer throught the lungs at 50 yds (give or take). After he got up I shot him again in the neck killing him. After opening him up I tracked the bullet path through the lungs and was rather disappointed. The hole was barely larger than 270 cal. and everthing was still in tack. The bullet exited, something I like. The point is there was very little damage inside due to the bullets not expanding as best as I can tell.

I have since started loading the Accuband. It was simple to get to shoot well with 1" or less being the norm. I have not hunted with them yet, but since they are reported to act like partitions I am not worried.

I tried the old Scirocco's in my 270 a few years ago. Admittely I didn't go through a lot of time to find the perfect load. I did however try several powders, but I just couldn't get them to shoot as accuractly as I wanted. The best I got was 1.5" and yes that is good enough, but that was the best. Most were over that.

I took them hunting that fall and shot a big-bodied mule deer throught the lungs at 50 yds (give or take). After he got up I shot him again in the neck killing him. After opening him up I tracked the bullet path through the lungs and was rather disappointed. The hole was barely larger than 270 cal. and everthing was still in tack. The bullet exited, something I like. The point is there was very little damage inside due to the bullets not expanding as best as I can tell.

I have since started loading the Accuband. It was simple to get to shoot well with 1" or less being the norm. I have not hunted with them yet, but since they are reported to act like partitions I am not worried.

What is that called. "The power of one"