I am just kicking around the idea of getting a big-bore rifle for the sake of nostalgia and for future trips to Africa. The gun would only be used on perhaps Cape buffalo, as I have no intention of ever hunting rhino, elephants or the great cats (I know this may change if I ever get to Africa).

I am very sensitive to recoil, as I've had two extensive shoulder surgeries. The last operation was a total reconstruction that left a few bolts and a screw in the joint. The problem is, the screw is right on the point of the head of the humerus in the front...right where a rifle rests when it is mounted properly. Shooting rifles of even moderate recoil hurts. I'm tough, so I can take a bit, but after a few rounds I know I'm done, and have to postpone practice for another day.

I don't really want to go with the time-honored .375 H&H, as I'd like a bit more insurance if I'm hunting dangerous game. I've heard/read that some of the lower-recoiling big bores are the 404 Jeffery, 450/400 NE and 470 NE. Are there others?

Of course, I know handloading would allow me to tailor loads to my unique situation, but I'd like to have the opportunity to use factory ammo as a first choice.

Any help will be appreciated...thanks!

375 H&H fits the bill, but I understand the 404jeff is a great round, but of course ammo availability is tougher.

The 450/400 might be one to look at. Also, you might consider the 9.3x62 round, basically a necked up 30-06. For Cape Buffalo, they have a reputation of working just fine and the recoil is less than all of the above. It is also legal in some places, such as Zim, I believe, and probably others. Also, with your known, documented shoulder problems, I'd almost guarantee that you could get a waiver, approval, whatever is needed, to hunt DG with the 9.3 anywhere in Africa no matter what their regulations say. The 9.3 is the route I would go if I were you. The 9.3x62 chambering is becoming more popular over here all the time and factory ammo availability is very good, especially over in Africa. JMHO.

Test

A bullet through the right shoulder caused Don Heath to also have trouble with heavy recoiling calibers and he has found that the 9.3x62 works fine on Zimbabwe buffalo.
I can assure you it also works great on Alaska's large Brown Bears as well , with minimal recoil.

I will say the 9.3x62 is not basically a necked up 30 06. the dimensions are a little different; it is a mm shorter and holds more powder. howwever, it enjoys a sterling reputation amongst riflemen. had the Allied forces not destroyed the Mauserwerke factory at the end of WWII, we would be speaking of the 9.3 as we now do the 375 in all likelihood as it was the standard workhorse of africa, along with the 404J prior to WWII.

if you have a bum shoulder I would think of building the rifle a little heavier; my father in law has one in CZ factory form and he, too, has a bad shoulder. he put a dead mule recoil reducer in his and now he loves it.

good luck

build a 9.3 around 9 1/2 pounds, add a Good recoil pad and- if still necessary - have a brake added.

Thanks for the replies and suggestions so far.

I've already decided I won't be going after dangerous game on my first safari. I feel it better for me personally (and probably my PH, too!) to get some experience first...learn the ropes of hunting in Africa with a PH a bit...before striking out for Cape buffalo. This will give me a few years to practice with the rifle at my "decelerated" rate before I'd actually need it in a hunting situation.

My thoughts on the 9.3x62 are this: I figure I won't be able to practice with these big rifles nearly as much as I would like to. I am not saying I will go to Africa unprepared, but merely I won't have a thousand rounds through the rifle before I make the trip. My shoulder simply cannot take such abuse. Wouldn't something bigger than the .375 offer me more "breathing room" on a shot on a buff, given equal practice time with the rifle?

have to go with Phil on the 9.3, great cartridge and very underrated. jorge

Go on with the 9,3x62, this caliber has not a bad recoil, hundred of thousands hunters use it every year in Europe without problem and some use it in Africa too. To learn control your rifle and get use to recoil, shoot some 250grs Nosler or 232grs Norma bullets. Don't concentrate on bench shooting, find a good load accurate enought, remember it's an hunting rifle and caliber not a bench rest one. Then fire it from REAL hunting positions. You will find that recoil is really managable. You can also add a Browning Reactar recoil tamer pad (or another one)to your shooting vest. Then when you're, ready choose the right bullet and train to connect with your "game lethal zone" size target. Try to find target that represent game cause in the wild there's no bull or X on game.
Good training. The best rifle is the one you manage and feel best with. Better a 9,3 throught the shoulders than a 416 Weatherby in the paunch....
Dom

I don't know who told you that a .470 NE is "lower recoiling" but he has a bad sense of humour.It only takes 3 or 4 full power rounds thru mine and I'm not really interested in shooting it anymore that day.

You have 2 flanged cartriges listed which would typically be used in double rifles and the jeffries which would typically be used in a bolt action. Are you looking for a double or a bolt?

Although I see your point about a bigger thump and more breathing room, I think most people would agree that it is much more important to place the shot well, than to use a cannon.

What are you shooting now that is at the upper end of your comfort level? If you are shooting a 6# 338 and that hurts abit then you can probably deal with a bigger, heavier stick for the meanies, If you are shooting a 9# 30/06 and its causing pain that will certainly be more problematic.

If africa is to be on the menu- even though you seem to want to avoid it the .375 is the only choice IMHO- especially if you want to use factory ammo. If your luggage is lost you could be almost guaranteed to find ammo for a .375 almost anywhere in africa. The others not so much.

If you polled 100 ph's I would imagine that every single one would prefer that their client show up with a .375 (or 9.3) they can shoot well and have practiced with alot, than a .416 or a .458 that kicks like heck and the causes a flinch that causes the PH's but to be in the wringer with a wounded buff in the long grass. I know that every single one I have ever talked to has said that.

If pachyderms aren't on the menu I think most would also agree that nothing is to be gained by an increase in bullet diameter above .375 anyways.

All of the above is of course simply my own opinion and I've only shot 1 buff in my waking moments (1000's in my dreams though!)

And with that said (I'M glad you asked!) I used a .458 lott, shot him through the heart @70 yards and he ran about 20 yards and was dead in les than 20 seconds. I'm fairly convinced that a .375 would of done exactly the same thing. I'm also convinced that a .470 that landed on the wrong side of his diaphragm would of had a much different result.

A charging buffalo isn't stopped by hitting him with .050" diameter more bullet, but by disrupting his central nervous system with a spine or brain shot, this requires bullet placement, not Horsepower. Horsepower is always good but only if it is in the right place.

I also think that anyone who thinks that they can shoot a .470 (or a .458 or a 404) a couple of times and be ready for a safari is deluding themselves, or waaaay more skilled then the average shooter that I bump into in the field.

I'm also quite dissapointed that my answer doesn't quite match with Phil's and feel that his experience in shooting hairy nasties should renders all other posts here (especially mine) as pointless. If Phil says it will work just do that and be done with it- it will surely be a very good solution.

Thanks! I'll be sure to leave that puppy off the list!


I could go for either. Of course, a double could eat up another year without practice, as I'd have to save up that long to afford one.


Agreed. I owned a .338 Win Mag as an elk gun and eventually gave it up and went back to my trusted .270 Wby Mag. I shot the Weatherby better (the damn thing refused to miss), so it was a better elk gun, at least for me.


I can handle the .300 mags in a sporter-weight rifle (about 8lbs with scope), but that's about it. Any bigger, and I would need a lead sled at the bench. However, I tend to practice from shooting positions more than from a bench, and this shooting is usually much easier on my shoulder. The .338 Win Mag wasn't so bad off-hand or over a rest where I could stand instead of sit.


I know. I just want something that sounds more romantic.


I think all these cartridges are too much for me. It will come down to my level of discipline and committment to overcome the obstacles. I think I will be able to practice almost equally with each.


Good to know.


Me, too.


Got pix?


I will file this advice away to be used at a later date (hopefully!).


Totally agree. I don't plan on shooting the rifle just a couple of times. That's why I'm giving myself 3-4 years lead time before I'll actually need the rifle in a DG hunting situation. I know I won't be able to practice a lot during each session (6-10 rounds, perhaps?) due to the shoulder, so that means I'll need to offset that with more sessions. More sessions = more time. I hope I'm giving myself enough time to get this thing out in the field a few dozen times and at least shoot a deer or two and perhaps an elk, as well.


Who?

I have a 9.3x62 on a Model 70 and the recoil is not bad at all with 250 grain triple shocks at max load. In fact, this rifle is much more pleasant to shoot than a 30-06 Model 700 ADL that I used to own. I think the 9.3 is ideal for plains game at moderate range and will cleanly take buff.

I think I'm liking the 9.3x62. If I plan to hunt in Namibia or the RSA, will I be OK for buff'?

Seattle,

notlim is talking about Phil Shoemaker (458Win) who has posted above several times. Phil is a well known Alaskan guide/outfitter whose advice is well worth listening to.

Test

Thanks. I'll watch for more of his posts.

Seattle, I am a big fan of the 9.3x62 having just built one with 21" barrel and set up as an iron sight rifle. However, IMHO, it don't get a whole lot more romantic than the 375HH. Its done it all many times over. But the 9.3 recoils less and can be built a little lighter, or heavier for even less recoil. I think either one would suit your needs very well. Les

Seattle,,,,,,,,,I believe that whatever cartridge you use in Africa, either from the 9.3x62 on up, you still may have some serious shoulder issues.

What fun is it to have a rifle and not enjoy 20-40 rounds at the range. Ok! 10 rounds then.

Regardless of cartridge, another approach would be to put a muzzle brake on the rifle.

If I were you and considering your shoulder problem, I`d rather have a cartridge more suitable for caped buffalo, WITH a brake and less recoil, rather than a less powerful cartridge without a brake and more recoil.

Yep! It`ll be noisier with more flash, but as the `ol saying goes,,,whatever advantage is gained somewhere, there will always be a dis-advantage somewhere else.

Something else to think about uh???

Virtually every guide that I know both here in Alaska as well as most I know in Zimbabwe, Zambia, Mozambique and Tanzania absolutely hate muzzle brakes and some even refuse to guide hunters who use them - so that is why I recommended that you try and use a heavier 9.3 before adding a brake.

Seattle.

If you are a handloader getting good practice is easy. I download my 375 RUM with AA5744 and 225 gr. Hornadys. Even used it to shoot a Mn whitetail last fall.

I just bought 4 lbs of 5744 and some 525g Cast Performance cast bullets for my 500 Jeffery. Should be a heck of a praire dog and jack rabbit round at around 1600 fps.

Chuck

Some great advice to try from some folks in the know...

But if it still hurts your shoulder TOO much think about trying this... Big Challenge!!! and you can still fulfill that dream!

Another way to do it!...

Scroll down and check out the pics.

Certainly not for everyone but a lot of folks have done it and it doesn't touch your shoulder!

Just a thought...

Thanks for the suggestion. I appreciate it very much. However, I failed to mention I'm about 60% deaf in my left ear. If I were to lose the hearing in my right ear, I'd be up a creek.

Also, I had a nimrod launch a braked .338 Win Mag right over my head at a range of about 15' while elk hunting in WA state. After I recovered (it took about 12 hours for my hearing to come back to normal), I swore then and there I would never do that to another human being.

These two things mean muzzle brakes are out for me, even if it means giving up what I love most.

How about considering a 416Taylor with 400gr backed off to 2150fps, or with a 325gr at 2400fps for plains game? Likewise the 9.3x62 at its original Kynoch ballistics of 2150fps with 285gr would be relatively mild, but so would a 35Whelen with a premium 225gr at 2500fps. A 404Jeffery at its Kynoch 2150 fps would also be relatively mild ... plus allow you to shoot a Woodleigh 347gr soft/solid combination at 2200fps (ie 10.75x68 ballistics). If correct bullet placement is 99% of the game, the lightest calibre legal in a rifle with perhaps one or two mercury reducers to add weight seems the best way to handle your problem.
Cheers...
Con

I didn't read where both your shoulders were AFU. What about learning to shoot off the other shoulder? You could still use the cartridges listed above but with no pain. I learned to use the other side after breaking a scapula just prior to hunting season. It took some practice with a 243 and light loads but I eventually mastered it. Over the years, I have learned to be just as deadly from either side.

RH

If you are thinking a double is possible, a cartridge that is the rimmed ballistic equivalent of te 9.3x62 is the 9.3x74R (rimmed). It is available in many brands of doubles at about half the price of the big boys (470 NE, etc.). It is not over-powered for buff; in fact it is perhaps on the line between marginal and not though it has been used very successfully over the years. It is growing in popularity and Hornady offers loads and brass along with Norma and others.

None of us know the extent of your injury, and the 9.3x62 is probably the best option if you can handle it...but it still generates a bit of recoil by some folks standards...

Try it, but if you cannot shoot it comfortably and pain free, then I would suggest a 30-06 or a handloaded 7x57 for even less recoil..

Proper bullet placement and a proper bullet with either will kill any animal on this planet, even elephant..Not my choice but I have not had two surgerys on my shoulder as you have and I am not too recoil sensitive. I have killed buffalo with both the 06 and 7x57, and both did very well for me.

I would rather a hunter shot a 7x57 well than a 470 poorly on all DG...

If you can shoot a 30-06 and tolerate the recoil you should have no problem with a 9.3 X 62. I dislike muzzle brakes.

Check the laws of the country in which you think you might wish to hunt DG. In some, if not most, the 375 is the minimum legal caliber.

Firstly, I have to say that I like my .470 NE and the .476 Westley Richards and although thumpers, in a properly set up rifle the recoil isn't that bad...

The only ways that you can reduce felt recoil is by redirection (stock design), mass (weight), interruption (recoil pad) or delay (porting and/or brakes)...

As Mr. Shoemaker pointed out, most guides will not allow braked rifles--which is why the are made removable--on the hunt but they are certainly nice to have when sighting in�

I have had major back surgery and am also recoil shy and as such, equipped one of my rifles with both a brake and Mag-na-porting, 2 Mercury tubes, LimbSaver recoil pad and put on a padded strap-on comb to the butt...I can now shoot my favourite .340 Weatherby all day long and have done so at various competitions...Granted that's overkill but not really...

You can add a couple of 6 oz tubes and install a LimbSaver pad for under $100 and just those will make a huge difference...

One thing that I've always noticed, that at the time of the hunt, at the moment of the kill, when you squeeze that trigger, most people didn't even realize that they just got smacked by their rifle butt...something about an adrenalin/endorphin (or maybe its testosterone) rush...

I've come back from a day of intense goose shooting--when only the air was in danger and when undressing for bed noticed that I've now got a bruise from the top of my shoulder to below my rib cage...I didn't think those 3�" magnums kicked that much when I was shooting at something edible!

In many countries in Africa the minimum allowed for dangerous game is the lovely .375 H&H and lots of them won�t allow the 9.3mm whether as a x62, x64 or x72 because they are .366 and insist on at least a 10mm of some kind�then again, others will, so check with your PH�I�d take the 9.3x64 as a direct competitor to the .375 H&H (295 gr bullet at 2,570 fps vs. 300 gr at 2,600 fps)

There are the mid-ranges of .450/400 3��, .416s by Rigby, Hoffman (Necked up .375 H&H), Taylor (necked down .458 Win) or Weatherby, .425 Westley Richards (my personal favourite) and the new/old ones put out by Hornady the .404 (10.75x73) and .400 (.450/400 3�) Jeffery and then there is the oft overlooked .405 Win which Teddy R. said was the best lion medicine out there!

For mid bores that are easy on the shoulder I'd go for the Jeffrey--.400 for a break action or the .404 for a bolt or the old .405 Win which in the Winchester 1895 lever gun wasn't that hard to endure but only with the shotgun butt not that curved monstrosity and in a safari weight bolt action was actually a pleasure to shoot!

That I can do.

I can handle standard-weight rifles that generate around the same recoil as the .30-06/7mm Rem Mag class. My most recent purchase was a Sako 85 in .338 Federal because I wanted something that tosses a bit bigger bullet with more frontal area but doesn't kick like a mule. I haven't shot it yet, but will after I decide which scope it'll get.

I'm also not a huge fan of long-range shooting, unless it's at targets. I had a .270 Wby Mag that was so accurate I could hit anything with it out to 600+ yards. Even though I was supremely confident in it, I could just never bring myself to shoot at a live animal that far. I did take a couple of pokes at deer at 400 yards (give or take) with good results, but I'm just more comfortable getting closer and taking shots on game of 300 yards or less. I think my .338 Federal is perfect for this...a good balance of knockdown power and low recoil. It seems the 9.3x62 is right in line with this thinking.

I'm just worried about its legality for DG. If my only safari options don't take me to Zimbabwe, would I be able to use it for DG in Namibia or the RSA?

I would go with a 375 H&H. While I think the 9.3x62 is a fine choice--and may build one someday--the 375 has some advantages. First, I think it is legal in more countries for DG. Second, it can be easily loaded down using 235 gr bullets to provide a rolling push recoil. I am just not sure what is available in terms of light .368 bullets. The 235 gr Barnes loaded quickly still does not have the recoil of the 270 and 300 gr bullets in the 375, and is versatile on plains game (at least as far a the experiences from my single trip indicate.) You could make a 10# 375 H&H that would not be overly burdensome and was also managable from a recoil perspective.

You know, thinking about your shoulder, if the screw in the front creates a very specific point of pain, have you ever played around with relieving the front surface of the recoil pad to make a pocket where the recoil pressure would be lessened? Might be worth a try--only cost you the price of a pad.

Ixna on the rakeba.

As I was scrolling down reading through these posts I was thinking the same thing..."Dead Simple Idea"...

Have you ever looked at Ken Howell's line of wildcats based on .404 Jeffery brass? I have one barreled to his .416 Howell. I haven't as yet played with a lot of loads yet. But so far, it's a pussy cat.

It works well with a standard length Mauser action, the case length is right at 2.5", it didn't take a lot to make it work from the box magazine.

This rifle will finish up under ten pounds. No scope on it yet (not sure I want a scope on it).

Something to think about.

See if you can locate an A-Square based on the 1917 Enfield action. These are extremely ugly and rather heavy but they are designed to minimize recoil in any of the calibres they are available in. Alternatively there is a sort of piston arrangement where the back end of the buttstock slides forward, I don't know who makes them but they do work. Short of all those suggestions, you might emulate Bell with a 6.5x54 Mannlicher, take only standing shots and practice an awful lot.

Have you looked into a CompStock or other recoil absorbing stock?

I was going to suggest doing the paperwork with the Feds and getting a silencer for range work, as they reduce recoil without muzzle blast, but it looks like you might be in WA (IIRC not a silencer friendly state).

Neck a 9.3X62 up to .375? What would that be? Then add a good pad with a mercury recoil reducer. All in a 9.5-10lb. gun.

That would be a 375 Hawk/Schoville.

That would ver nearly be a 375 Scoville(30-06 necked to 375). .009" diameter change is all you gain. 9.3x62 is not wildcat.

I was sitting around the campfire in RSA this March talking rifle choices for buffalo with Kevin Robertson ("The Perfect Shot"). He asked me what I thought I would use, to which I replied a 404 Jeffry. He said it was an excellent choice, but had I ever considered a 9.3x62? By the time we left for our beds, I was convinced the 9.3 was a far better choice than I had first imagined. Felt recoil, energy levels at top end meet the 4000ft/lb requirement, weight of rifle to ease recoil, effeciency of round, historical performance in Africa etc etc.

Phil Shoemaker has been a reliable source of info on this campfire for a long while, and his endorsement adds to my personal respect for the round, so much so that I have placed an order for a CZ 550 so chambered. I have to await back order, but will post results as soon as I get the rifle. I also have a bum right shoulder, and so far am too spastic to shoot well left handed.( that is an excellent hint though if you can swing it.)

My limit right now with my shoulder is a 338 win mag 250 gr TSX at 2500 ft/sec and I shoot two groups of 3 shots off the sticks. I stop then so I do not develop a flinch. Rifle is 9 lbs with scope and three rounds. Not light, but not too heavy to carry either. Take Phil's advice, I have.
Randy

Aren't 9.3s illegal for buff in the RSA?

I'm just worried about its legality for DG. If my only safari options don't take me to Zimbabwe, would I be able to use it for DG in Namibia or the RSA? [/quote]

The 9.3x62 will probably be OK in Namibia but not in RSA. RSA has a minimum caliber requirement of .375 for DG. (I do not know if this is enforced very stringently though.) I say "probably" for Namibia as they have a minimum energy requirement for DG - 5400 Joules, which translates to just under 4000 ft. lbs. (The exceptions to this would be the cats.) You shouldn't have a problem tailoring a x62 load to meet that, although, personally, I wouldn't go lighter than a 286-gr. bullet for Buff. (FWIW, .375 is also the minimum DG caliber in Mozambique, Botswana, Zambia, and Tanzania. Again, I am not certain as to what degree this is adhered too.)

I find it strange for Kevin Robertson to recommend the 9.3x62 for buffalo while having a discussion in a country (RSA) where it isn't legal to use. I like everything I hear about the cartridge. It sounds perfect for my needs...except the part where it seems I wouldn't be able to use it for the game animal I seek.

If someone would come out and say definitively that I CAN use it for buff in both Namibia and the RSA (since these are most likely where my first two safaris would occur), my search would be over.

When I hunted in Namibia a few years ago, I was thinking about a 9.3x62. I asked my PH if it would be legal for DG and he said, "Yes, quite a few folks use them. I like them. It's a good all-around rifle for African game".

seattlesetters,
I would suggest a PAST Recoil Shield worn under your shirt.
Nobody needs to know it's there and they work!
They work great for sighting in heavy recoiling guns like patterning a Turkey shotgun or 12 gauge slug loads. They have a model made for Magnum rifles if I remember correctly.
My sister in law had a double masectomy and still hunts with a 30-06.
whelennut

You could also try a McCoys Shooters Shield , supposed to be as good (if not better) and cheaper, at least on the say so of two frineds of mine...

Thanks, gentlemen. I'll look into those recoil shields.

A choice of Namibia and Zimbabwe for Cape buffalo should yield plenty of options. To be honest, I kinda hoped to avoid the high fences for my first trip or two. I'm not completely adverse to them, but I wouldn't mind saving that experience for a chance at one of my dream trophies...nyala.

There is a lot of misinformation floating around out there about what is legal and what is not legal in africa...The 9.3x62 IS legal in Zimbabwe with a handload btw as it meets the energy and velocity specs required...

Every safari company that I know of in any African country will allow a kid, wife or injured person shoot DG with a 7x57 or 30-06, as long as they have a backup. In most countries the game scout himself can make that call on the spot.

These gentle people shoot the light calibers well and I don't recall a single failure on Buffalo, elephant or Lion, nor do I remember the need for back up in a single case. Is there a lesson to be learned here?

All that aside, in every African country I have hunted in and booked for they overlook such things as caliber, sometimes for a small price, and sometimes not, and sometimes because they don't have enough education to read the caliber, but mostly because they are a practical lot that don't think like we do, and for the most part don't really care...It is not a bad way of life, does away with red tape, keeps money on top of the table as opposed to under the table,and is more common in the world than our approach to law...It is not flaunted in the 3rd worlds but with proper ediquite it is perfectly acceptable. Always let your professional take care of such things as this.

Every Safari company in Africa that I know of will allow a muzzle brake before they would turn down a paying client. Most that I know would prefer the muzzle brake and good shooting as opposed to bad shooting..All my companies have clients with muzzle braked guns from time to time..If you run into one that won't allow it then there are plenty of others that will, give me a call for one and I'll fix you up.

The muzzle brake is THE most effective way of reducing recoil, and although blast may be bad, any big bore rifle will damage your hearing just as bad as a muzzle braked gun will according to a couple of audiolgist and ear docs that have booked with me and discussed the pros and cons with me..These guys tell me any firearm should be shot only with ear protection and went into the decible explanation that really didn't mean much to me but was of importance to them...

A good practice is to use muzzle brakes at the bench, and for testing loads..at the end of each firing session religiously fire 6 to 12 shots without the brake and from an off hand position..In time you will use the brake less and less..It worked for me and I can shoot any rifle without flinching without a brake, even though I don't care for the big kickers, and really see no need for them..I like the 40 calibers best. I don't know if this will work for injured shoulders, only the original poster and injured folks will know this...

Our poster states he can shoot a .338 Win, so IMO a 338 with 300 gr. Woodleighs is fully equal to a 375 with 300 gr. bullets, it lacks the cross section of the .375, and that is important IMO from a stoping standpoint, but it gains in important SD that relates to penetration so lets call it a push...They are equal from a practical standpoint IMO, and I know the .338 would be book legal had it been around when they wrote those arcaic laws so many years ago and I have been told as much by the old timers..

While hunting you can have ear plugs on a string around you neck..I do this, but in all honesty I usually neglect to use them, and my hearing is damaged anyway being from a pre ear protection era..My quite world ain't all that bad, especially when the conversation gets boring or the wife starts ragging on me..:)

Just my opine on this subject.

Actually the 375 Scovill is the 9.3x62 necked up to .375. When Dave was working on it he didn't have 9.3x62 brass so used 30-06 brass that was fireformed to the 9.3x62 chamber ( which is why some folks mistakenly credit it as a necked up 30-06)
It could properly be referred to as a 9.5x62.
It is also a great round. I get a solid 2400fps using 286gr .375 Grand Slam bullets.

One of the big reasons Dave used the 9.3x62 case necked up to .375 is at the time there were very few 9.3 bullets available in America--and the 9.3x62 case had a little more powder capacity than other factory cases on the basic .30-06 case.

But now we have a great variety of fine 9.3mm bullets. So why screw around with wildcats?

I know it's not very imaginative, but a 375 H&H in a 10 lb rifle is a pussycat for recoil. A great selection of bullets, lots of rifle choices. Hard to beat.

Chuck

Can you share info on what handloads in the 9.3x62 with 286 grain bullets meet the requirements for energy mentioned by Atkinson?

By the way, I find the 9.3x62 with 286 gr handloads to be a bit easier on my shoulder than any of the .300 mags I've used, and quite a bit more pleasant than my .375H&H when it is run full throttle with 300 grain loads.

I know it's not very imaginative, but a 375 H&H in a 10 lb rifle is a pussycat for recoil. A great selection of bullets, lots of rifle choices. Hard to beat.

Chuck

Ray - That's what I was looking to hear. With that said, it looks like the 9.3x62 is exactly what I'm after.

It would also seem to fit nicely with my philosophy about rifles and the cartridges they're chambered for. I obviously go for the lower-recoling numbers, but I don't like to sacrifice performance on game. I also like my rifles to "back each other up" in terms of having a bit of overlap, but being just different enough to where each rifle fills certain niches rather commandingly. It would seem the 9.3x62 would make a good backup for my .338 Federal, but will obviously get the nod over the Fed for the heaviest or danerous game.

Before I went down the .375 Hawk-Scoville path, I'd just download a .375 Ruger or .375 H&H. Far less hassle.

I have a 9.3x62 and like it very much; I've never shot any dangerous game with it so I can't offer an informed opinion. I think Ray's the expert on this one.

How does 35 Whelen fit into this discussion?

I'm not venturing an opinion. I'm just asking the question.

If my memory is correct, I do believe that the 9.3 caliber is legal for DG in Mozambique, Zimbabwe and some areas of South Africa. I think that Namibia actually requires .375+ by law, but as Ray has mentioned in the past, the PH would more than likely make exceptions -- especially since the 9.3 is so widely respected throughout most of the African continent and one can't tell a bit of difference between hitting something squarely with it or a .375 (IMHO).

Originally Posted By: notlim
If africa is to be on the menu- even though you seem to want to avoid it the .375 is the only choice IMHO- especially if you want to use factory ammo. If your luggage is lost you could be almost guaranteed to find ammo for a .375 almost anywhere in africa. The others not so much.

I know. I just want something that sounds more romantic.

What could be more romantic than a .375 HH in Africa?

I know the history and the legendary performance of the .375 H&H in Africa. I completely give it its due respect....reverence, even. I just want something a little different. It seems everybody carries a .375, but I like the sound of a .404 Jeffery or a NE or even a Rigby, although I know the Rigby probably doesn't carry quite the history in Africa as some of the others.

If it didn't kick so hard, I'd just get the Jeffery and be done with it.

perhaps Ray can confirm this, but given a rifle of appropriate weight with a properly fitted stock, a 404J loaded to original specs does not seem to produce a recoil impulse any greater than the 375. have a look in the ballisticians corner at beartoothbullets.com

Consider a custom recoil pad, Maybe take a larger one and reverse grind it so it flares out from the stock, then maybe relieve an area somewhere in the more center area where it would normally bear on that screw you are talking about. Make it somewhat like a custom orthotic for your feet, only for the shoulder. Just an idea, it may not be pretty or conventional looking but should help.

Here is a link to minimums by coutry in africa. Take a look.

http://bigfivehq.com/mincaliber.htm


maddog

Maddog,
Didn't you have a win. M-95 in 9.3x62 at one time????or was that someone else..

Ray, musta been someone else, only big bore I have[at the present], is my 1895 .45-70 GG.

Ray, you gonna be at DSC next Jan.? Want to talk to you about nengasha.

maddog

I have a CZ 550 in 9.3X62 and would not hesitate to recommend both the rifle and the round. It does kick, but it is more of a push than a sharp wrap. The CZ's are know to be a bit on the heavy side with the wood stock, but this is a good thing for recoil. Most important would be a rifle that fits well. I have had several the kicked the sh*&^ out of me off the bench. One was a model 70 in 06 the other a Mauser with a Bishop stock in 8mm, neither know as a hard kicker. The CZ is accurate, mine shoots MOA with several loads and as a bonus basically shoots to the same point of impact with bullet weights from 232 to 286. Some up and down, but same center point. Also it is basically rather cheap for a DG rifle. Nice wood as well. The bolt was a bit rough but smoothed up with use. The set trigger had a bit of grit used in normal non set mode but a quick pass with a stone on the sear fixed that. CRF as well with a 5 round magazine. To me a lot of value for the money.

Maddog,
I will probably go to Reno this year, I am not sure yet..

The 404 at original specs recoils about like a factory 375 and some more than a 9.3x62..

I never shoot my 404 at original specs of 400 gr. bullet at 2100 FPS anymore, although I know its effective as can be as I used it early on at those specs and it killed buffalo, elephant and Hippo as well as one could wish for. I also shoot my 450-400-3" double rifle at those specs and it works great..

I shoot my 404 Jefferys at 2400 FPS and it recoils more and it may or may not kill a bit better, I guess it does but dead is dead...:) I have shot buffalo with the 404 loaded with 95 grs. of IMR4831 with a 400 gr. bullet at 2653 FPS out of a 27 inch original barrel and it was a hammer on both ends.

for this gentle with an injury I strongly advise the 9.3x62 if he can shoot it, if not then the old 30-06 will work if your careful use a proper bullet and place your shots well. I have seen it use on buffalo and elephant with perfect results.

Seattlesetters, if my shoulder were in your shape I would go with a 375 H&H, and make sure it's a beefy one (Ruger RSM, CZ, etc.) the weight will help soak up the recoil. I had a mercury recoil reducer put in my CZ, it helped the balance and did help with recoil as well (the CZ 375s are muzzle heavy since they use the same barrel contour from 375 to 458). I'd also buy a nice shooting jacket and have a tailor sew in a PAST recoil pad into it. A 375 H&H is all you need and it will never go out of style.

Best wishes for your shoulder and hunt,

Chuck

I think, in this case, the question should be: "What's a low-recoiling DG cartridge good for?"

Bob

www.bigbores.ca